Klip Legend/Cream hybrid

[Dartagnan64]

I just played some with Legend/Cream in my Phantom 93P. 17g at 52/46. Plays really nice. Compared to O/V it has a bit more spin and a bit more touch. Similar launch angles and power despite the lower tension. Probably could even go 50/45 with this setup but I'll see how it performs once the tension settles.
No arm discomfort after two short sets of singles (6-1, 6-1). Definitely like this combo better in the 93P than in the Phantom 100.

Going to bring it into our Club Calcutta this weekend so hopefully the performance will hold.

 

[Traffic]

I just played some with Legend/Cream in my Phantom 93P. 17g at 52/46. Plays really nice. Compared to O/V it has a bit more spin and a bit more touch. Similar launch angles and power despite the lower tension. Probably could even go 50/45 with this setup but I'll see how it performs once the tension settles.
No arm discomfort after two short sets of singles (6-1, 6-1). Definitely like this combo better in the 93P than in the Phantom 100.

Going to bring it into our Club Calcutta this weekend so hopefully the performance will hold.

I'm currently grooving with V/C at the moment. I put my L/V stick in the bag for a time-out. It's been 1.5mos since I last strung. So I might try cutting out V and stringing C in the cross to give that a try again. I think my strokes have improved since the time I played with L/C last. So maybe the variable sweet spot issue may not be as much of an issue anymore......I can only dream...

 

[ByeByePoly]

I'm currently grooving with V/C at the moment. I put my L/V stick in the bag for a time-out. It's been 1.5mos since I last strung. So I might try cutting out V and stringing C in the cross to give that a try again. I think my strokes have improved since the time I played with L/C last. So maybe the variable sweet spot issue may not be as much of an issue anymore......I can only dream...

Why doesn't L/V play good until it breaks? Does the gut wear off the V coating/sickness? I would assume gut would be harder on the V cross than v mains on v crosses.

 

[Traffic]

Why doesn't L/V play good until it breaks? Does the gut wear off the V coating/sickness? I would assume gut would be harder on the V cross than v mains on v crosses.

Yup. Gut is tough on V. V wears out first. Then it's locked stringbed with half the strings that don't bite anymore.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Yup. Gut is tough on V. V wears out first. Then it's locked stringbed with half the strings that don't bite anymore.

Yes I'd imagine that's the case. I think gut is always best with smooth poly crosses. And it's probably best with smooth and stiff poly crosses if your arm can handle it. I'm trying Legend/Max Power after having no issues with Legend/Cream, at least as far as my arm is concerned. The Gut/Max Power setup is definitely a bit crisper, more controlled and a little more spin potential. Arm felt OK but it usually does with any fresh string bed. Time will tell.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Well I suspect Max Power may be too stiff a cross for me. Had not problems with Legend/Cream but I played a few hours of doubles with Legend/Max Power in my POG and I can definitely feel some arm soreness today. I think I'll stick with O/V in that racket. The 93P felt fine with Legend/Max Power but I'm not noticing enough benefit over Legend/Cream to want to risk it at this point.

I think I'll compare Cream to Pro Line II which is supposed to be a nice soft poly with good tension maintenance and I can get it in 18g.

 

[Traffic]

Yes I'd imagine that's the case. I think gut is always best with smooth poly crosses. And it's probably best with smooth and stiff poly crosses if your arm can handle it. I'm trying Legend/Max Power after having no issues with Legend/Cream, at least as far as my arm is concerned. The Gut/Max Power setup is definitely a bit crisper, more controlled and a little more spin potential. Arm felt OK but it usually does with any fresh string bed. Time will tell.

I may try L/C again. But the last time I tried it, there was this small sweet spot that threw my game off. With V in the cross, there is no "sweet spot" or I should say, no matter where I hit, there is consistent response. But with L/C, if I hit it in the middle, I would gain a bunch of power that was unexpected...

 

[gazz1]

I’ve tried Cream in the crosses...very plush but I have trouble taming the power of the gut.
Legend mains with AluPower Soft crosses works really well for me.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I may try L/C again. But the last time I tried it, there was this small sweet spot that threw my game off. With V in the cross, there is no "sweet spot" or I should say, no matter where I hit, there is consistent response. But with L/C, if I hit it in the middle, I would gain a bunch of power that was unexpected...

Sometimes that's a gauge and tension issue. I certainly find Cream needs to be strung higher than most poly's to get similar mutedness.

I’ve tried Cream in the crosses...very plush but I have trouble taming the power of the gut.
Legend mains with AluPower Soft crosses works really well for me.

Gut/Alu power was probably my favorite hybrid until it wrecked my elbow. Poly went dead really fast and I kept playing and soon enough was getting TE pain. I'll never try that poly again. But the first 5 hours were amazing. It's kind of like that super hot but crazy girlfriend.

 

[Traffic]

So I finally figured out how to tame my Legend/Cream racket. I was noticing more spin with this combo but also less control than usual. Adjusted my grip to a more conventional semiwestern and voila, launch angle and control issues gone.

Much better. It's funny how things can slowly slide over time in response to different rackets and string setups. Have to be more mindful. I'd been playing a lot with a 93P with much lower launch angle and my grip had consequently moved a bit more to Eastern side of things. That started causing issues when i pulled out my Phantom 100.

I guess that's why some people just stick with one frame and one setup and learn to love it. I should maybe think about that too eventually. Admittedly it was arm injuries that forced a change. Otherwise I'd still be happily playing Tonic/4G in a Babolat Pure Drive.

I just cut out Velocity (cross) and re-strung with Cream on my V1P#1. So back to L/C. C strung at 51#. I was launching the ball quite a bit initially until I was able to close the face a little more. Also, I had to really trust the setup and not let up on my swing so it could get a good bite and let the spin keep the ball in play. I think it'll take a few more hitting sessions to make it my own. But so far so good.

One thing I did notice is that I wasn't experiencing the varying sweet spot. Maybe because my strokes are better developed and I'm not accidentally hitting a flat shot vs topspin ground stroke like before...or at least the percentage is down.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I just cut out Velocity (cross) and re-strung with Cream on my V1P#1. So back to L/C. C strung at 51#. I was launching the ball quite a bit initially until I was able to close the face a little more. Also, I had to really trust the setup and not let up on my swing so it could get a good bite and let the spin keep the ball in play. I think it'll take a few more hitting sessions to make it my own. But so far so good.

One thing I did notice is that I wasn't experiencing the varying sweet spot. Maybe because my strokes are better developed and I'm not accidentally hitting a flat shot vs topspin ground stroke like before...or at least the percentage is down.

Yes admittedly always fooling around with different setups and rackets can make it hard to get really grooved.

I'm using Legend/Proline II in one racket and Legend/Cream in another and its an interesting experiment. PLII is definitely the better string for control and a more even muting of the gut. Cream is a bit more lively and definitely less muted so control isn't quite as good. But Cream is a bit more slippery and spins a bit better than Proline II. And Cream is slightly more plush as well.

Next time I'll probably drop the PLII to 42 lbs and see if that softens it some more and provides the same control.

 

[Traffic]

Yes admittedly always fooling around with different setups and rackets can make it hard to get really grooved.

I'm using Legend/Proline II in one racket and Legend/Cream in another and its an interesting experiment. PLII is definitely the better string for control and a more even muting of the gut. Cream is a bit more lively and definitely less muted so control isn't quite as good. But Cream is a bit more slippery and spins a bit better than Proline II. And Cream is slightly more plush as well.

Next time I'll probably drop the PLII to 42 lbs and see if that softens it some more and provides the same control.

Thanks for the comparison feedback.

I picked up a few packs of PL2 when they went on sale. I was thinking I should have picked up more since they were so cheap. But I wanted to try using it as a cross to Legend or Lux.

I'm doing a little better controlling the power these days as long as I can get good spin on the ball. But I'm not sure I want to get away from the plush feeling.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Thanks for the comparison feedback.

I picked up a few packs of PL2 when they went on sale. I was thinking I should have picked up more since they were so cheap. But I wanted to try using it as a cross to Legend or Lux.

I'm doing a little better controlling the power these days as long as I can get good spin on the ball. But I'm not sure I want to get away from the plush feeling.

Probably a month away from spring tennis ... and all I can think about is trying new velocity hybrids. It’s a disease, because fb V is all I need. I really think I will try V/GOSM ... and cost avg my $5 Velocity down. hahaha!!!

I need you to try origin/v and @Dartagnan64 to try legend/V.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Probably a month away from spring tennis ... and all I can think about is trying new velocity hybrids. It’s a disease, because fb V is all I need. I really think I will try V/GOSM ... and cost avg my $5 Velocity down. hahaha!!!

I need you to try origin/v and @Dartagnan64 to try legend/V.

So basically I have Legend/Ghostwire, Legend/Velocity, Origin/Cream tee'd up on my "to do" list.
Not enough rackets and not enough time lol. I'll be playing super seniors by then.

 

[ByeByePoly]

So basically I have Legend/Ghostwire, Legend/Velocity, Origin/Cream tee'd up on my "to do" list.
Not enough rackets and not enough time lol. I'll be playing super seniors by then.

I am trying to cross pollinate your testing with @Traffic. Both of you have 1/2 of the Origin/V vs Legend/V shootout. I doubt if I would ever buy gut again, but if both of you said "BBP ... L/V is 10 times better than O/V" ... that would mess with my head. Traffic owes me A LOT of messing with the head payback.

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

Stay strong @Traffic, legend/cream is the better way to go compared to these thralls who are totally inurred to their failing threads!

O or V could possibly be a reasonable replacement for L, but never C, never C!
Unless it's ashaway ZX

 

[Traffic]

Probably a month away from spring tennis ... and all I can think about is trying new velocity hybrids. It’s a disease, because fb V is all I need. I really think I will try V/GOSM ... and cost avg my $5 Velocity down. hahaha!!!

I need you to try origin/v and @Dartagnan64 to try legend/V.

Or try OGSM/V.

But what you really want to try is: Legend/Velocity.

V/Cream though. Yeah, that's gotta be the da bomb on a budget setup. Closer to fb V, but with a little more bite, little more power, little more feel)

L/C...I'll be hitting with sonny boy this evening with it. I'll see if I can groove with it a little more. Then I have a (3.0-3.5) drills class tomorrow. Can test out how consistently I can hit against junkball winners.

 

[Traffic]

Stay strong @Traffic, legend/cream is the better way to go compared to these thralls who are totally inurred to their failing threads!

O or V could possibly be a reasonable replacement for L, but never C, never C!
Unless it's ashaway ZX

I ordered another 6 packs of C to be to used as a cross to...well...anything.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Stay strong @Traffic, legend/cream is the better way to go compared to these thralls who are totally inurred to their failing threads!

O or V could possibly be a reasonable replacement for L, but never C, never C!
Unless it's ashaway ZX

Really like L/C personally. My arm loves it. Better performance than O/V. O/V will always be on at least one of my rackets for bad weather days but, gut/soft poly is my new go to.

Next up will be Tier One Ghostwire which I'm really hoping I like because a Prince Phantom really needs to be strung with a string named Ghostwire.

 

[liftordie]

because a Prince Phantom really needs to be strung with a string named Ghostwire.

 

[Traffic]

Really like L/C personally. My arm loves it. Better performance than O/V. O/V will always be on at least one of my rackets for bad weather days but, gut/soft poly is my new go to.

Next up will be Tier One Ghostwire which I'm really hoping I like because a Prince Phantom really needs to be strung with a string named Ghostwire.

Keep up the good work testing. Yeah I'm starting to really groove with L/C. I guess l originally started this thread a year and a half ago. Since then, my strokes have improved. The biggest negative for me was frequently I would not finish my strokes and I would get less topspin on the ball and that sent my ball flying. But I haven't experienced the sudden power syndrome I struggled with back in 2017. That was really my only negative about this setup.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Keep up the good work testing. Yeah I'm starting to really groove with L/C. I guess l originally started this thread a year and a half ago. Since then, my strokes have improved. The biggest negative for me was frequently I would not finish my strokes and I would get less topspin on the ball and that sent my ball flying. But I haven't experienced the sudden power syndrome I struggled with back in 2017. That was really my only negative about this setup.

I continue to think the hole in string selection is arm friendly, durable control oriented mains. Gut ... pretty durable but expensive and launchy ... sending you back to poly/plastic cross. Most multis or sg mains will at minimum notch quickly, even if not a string breaker. ZX ... never tried it, read enough to think not the perfect solution for a mains. Velocity and Origin end up being close enough for me as mains because not a quick string breaker.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Keep up the good work testing. Yeah I'm starting to really groove with L/C. I guess l originally started this thread a year and a half ago. Since then, my strokes have improved. The biggest negative for me was frequently I would not finish my strokes and I would get less topspin on the ball and that sent my ball flying. But I haven't experienced the sudden power syndrome I struggled with back in 2017. That was really my only negative about this setup.

I'd +1 the "your strokes have improved" as a big culprit for fixing the launching ball syndrome.

I don't think Legend/cream is particularly more launchy than most low power multifilament if you dial in the tensions right. It's just more spin friendly. It is certainly more launchy than a full bed of stiff poly, but that's just never going to happen in my world again.

I'm just glad I have a place in the Desert to send TW string requests too. Having Tonic as the only cheap gut in Canada was the biggest drawback to gut/poly. But Legend/Cream is pretty much on par with Origin/Velocity, so why not use gut.

 

[Traffic]

I'd +1 the "your strokes have improved" as a big culprit for fixing the launching ball syndrome.

I don't think Legend/cream is particularly more launchy than most low power multifilament if you dial in the tensions right. It's just more spin friendly. It is certainly more launchy than a full bed of stiff poly, but that's just never going to happen in my world again.

I'm just glad I have a place in the Desert to send TW string requests too. Having Tonic as the only cheap gut in Canada was the biggest drawback to gut/poly. But Legend/Cream is pretty much on par with Origin/Velocity, so why not use gut.

Hm, I may have to try out O after all. I've been put off by the price. At that price, I'll just stick with L. But maybe as a synthetic back-up to L if it plays similarly.

I still have OGSM/C to try out.
Try OGSM/V again.

And of course, I have 3 sets of Lux Gut and Proline II that I need to try out...

 

[Dartagnan64]

I've got Legend/PLII in on of my rackets. Really nice for control but not quite as plush and comfy as Cream. I can't see it being a long term option.

 

[Traffic]

I've got Legend/PLII in on of my rackets. Really nice for control but not quite as plush and comfy as Cream. I can't see it being a long term option.

Very good info. I picked up the PL2 during their sale when it was $6/set. So I won't shed any tears cutting them out if they are just not right for me.

 

[liftordie]

so why not use gut.

Because playing on clay only...

 

[Dartagnan64]

Because playing on clay only...

I play on clay. Gut holds up just as well as any multi or Origin on clay.

Nothing is as durable as poly because... plastic.

People played on clay with gut for decades. Tennis did exist before 1998.

 

[liftordie]

I play on clay. Gut holds up just as well as any multi or Origin on clay.

Nothing is as durable as poly because... plastic.

People played on clay with gut for decades. Tennis did exist before 1998.

Yes but I break gut 1.30 (like multi 1.35) in 3 hours on clay... Sadly.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Yes but I break gut 1.30 (like multi 1.35) in 3 hours on clay... Sadly.

Red clay? Might be the finer grain is more noxious to strings than har tru.

 

[liftordie]

Red clay? Might be the finer grain is more noxious to strings than har tru.

That's it...

 

[liftordie]

@Dartagnan64 you have to try this as a cross...

https://www.dyreex.com/buy-tennis-monofilaments-fibermax-200-m.html

 

[Dartagnan64]

Nope. I would if they weren't European since it sounds right up my Cream/Ghostwire alley.

 

[liftordie]

it sounds right up my Cream/Ghostwire alley.

Exactly.

 

[Traffic]

I've got Legend/PLII in on of my rackets. Really nice for control but not quite as plush and comfy as Cream. I can't see it being a long term option.

I broke my gut string. Just found it like that when I reached into the bag prior to jumping onto a doubles court. Had to play with V/C. Didn't quite have the touch/feel of L/C nor as easy access to spin. It was a little harder to dial in a loopy top spin ground stroke.

I re-strung my V1P#1 with L/C @ 58/51. Pre-stretched L.

I'm not sure if it's the colder temp (I'm in Las Vegas playing outdoors in mid-upper 40s) or the strings need some time to de-tension. But everything feels super stiff.

When I get back home, I may cut out V/C from #2 stick and re-string with L/C at lower tension and see how that works out.

Once I'm really happy with the tension, then I may cross with PL2 to give that a try.

 

[Traffic]

ok, attended a skills class this morning. Played with L/C. I was ON. I could hit hard with RHS induced topspin or I could shape the shot to just arc over the net and drop in at the feet of the net player. It took a few tries to get my serves to go in. And my volleys were solid. Playing indoors in 60s temps was much nicer than playing in Las Vegas outdoors in 40s. Man that was stiff.

Cut out V/C from my #2 stick. Re-strung with L/C @ 58/51 with a good pre-stretch.

 

[ewiewp]

I'm curious how Cream ages as time goes by after strung.
I mean, Does it stiffens and deadens like polyester or lose tension like nylons (and sometimes becomes loose and uncontrollable) ?

One thing I liked about Gut/Poly combo (like 10 years ago) was the dying polys cross kinda compensate the gut's slowly losing control over time.....

(I'm not a string breaker with my frame's very dense 18x20 string bed. My gut/poly string bed lasted 100+ hours...)

 

[Traffic]

So after 6hrs of play, no signs of wear. This is rather odd since I feel like I am hitting much harder than when I first started playing with this combo.

Well...we'll keep notes and see what happens as we get closer to hour 15 and so on.

 

[Kalethan]

Been using the occasional Cream cross with zyex monogut mains, and more often with multi feel mains, for the past couple years, and in my 16x20 Yonex Duel Gs it never played that great. Comfy, but not a great amount of spin, locked up and felt kinda blah pretty much right away. Now i’ve just hit three times in three days with multi feel mains at 57 and Cream crosses at 53 in a K7 Lime, and it’s night and day different. The lime is 18x20, but I weighted it to the same ballpark as my 5 yonexes. The flat control is great, but it feels nice and alive and grips the ball very well. This setup is inexpensive and so far seems to meet my main criteria perfectly, which are comfort and control while crushing and blocking the ball flat, and a relatively moderate aging process where the playing characteristics don’t change too drastically. I prefer setups that don’t give you a ton of spin for 2 hours but then fall off a cliff. I always wanted to like Cream, but in a PS97s it was just blah, in my yonexes it was blah. Now, in the Angell, same tensions, wildly different feel and response.

“I no like the jerks. When I was younger, fine, ok. Maybe they change. Maybe I change. Who know?” - Uncle Kronos, end of GOF arc

 

[Traffic]

I strung up my racquet #2 with L/C. It's been sitting in my bag for over a week. I had done a little post-stretching but it was a bit stiff still last week. But I played with it at my drills class last night. Mm, really grooving with it. The feel is plush but still plenty of feedback. And the slightly more even balance of this stick seems to work better with my game. Stick #1 is a tad more HL and I sometimes miss the timing on it. But with a bit more even balance, I seem to be ever so slightly more consistent.

Big weekend of USTA match coming up. We are playing for a play-off spot on my 3.0 team. My 3.0 partner and I are playing D1 for a 3.5 team. We'll see if we can go 5-0 in 3.5 league. (I'm currently 6-1 in 3.5 league)

 

[Dartagnan64]

Swapped out Klip/Cream in my 93P for Klip/Ghostwire. So far I like it better than Cream largely because I can get it in a thinner gauge. Really ups the spin but still the comfort and feel are there.

Just need to see if this playability lasts, but it might be the new go to for my gut/poly needs.

 

[Traffic]

Swapped out Klip/Cream in my 93P for Klip/Ghostwire. So far I like it better than Cream largely because I can get it in a thinner gauge. Really ups the spin but still the comfort and feel are there.

Just need to see if this playability lasts, but it might be the new go to for my gut/poly needs.

What gauge of cream were yo using?

 

[Dartagnan64]

What gauge of cream were yo using?

17g Cream vs 19g Ghostwire

 

[Dartagnan64]

I've come to the conclusion that Ghostwire is superior to Cream. Both offer exceptional comfort but Ghostwire shows less notching, better sliding effect and equivalent playability duration.

And its offered in a variety of string gauges so I can get 17g for my POG 107, 18g for my Phantom 100's and 19g for my 93P.