Klippermate vs. Gamma Progression II 200

[Shaun]

Hello
I know there's more other threads about these stringers but I want recent suggestions especially for my thread. I've heard from these forums that the Klippermate clamps are much easier to use than the Gamma ones but the Gamma clutch makes the job easier and faster. I'm new in stringing and I'll be stringing for myself. I'll also be stringing mostly poly. Almost every time I'll be stringing, I'll be stringing with a poly. So What are the advantages and the disadvantages of both the klippermate and the X-2/Progression 200 if I'm going to be stringing mostly poly?
Thanks

 

[Irvin]

Gamma does not have a clutch they have a ratchet. flip a coin

 

[Carolina Racquet]

As a Klippermate owner...

Advantages of the KMate:
1. Portability/Storage - I can keep my machine in a tool box. Makes it great for storing it when not in use and for taking it to matches/tournaments.

2. Durability - Machine is built like a tank! Clamps are also metal. No doubt it will last for years.

3. Service - Klipper's service is really, really good.

Disadvantages:
1. No clutch - But you already knew that.

2. Poor brake - Not very effective for Port frames, so I do a 50/50 with them.

IMO can't make a bad decision with either, but I would not let a "no clutch" issue with the KMate hinder your decision. I can string a typical racquet w poly in about 30 minutes. You get used to how much string to load after a few frames.

 

[Irvin]

Hummm? I must be wrong I thought the KM had a clutch and the Gamma machines had ratchets.

 

[lew750]

I've had a Klippermate and an Eagnas drop weight with a clutch. You can adjust the Klippermate tensioner just as quickly and easily, and in both directions, once you get used to it. As for the clamps, they are ugly but work well. Haven't used the Gamma or Gamma clamps, but the Klippermate worked well for me.

 

[Carolina Racquet]

Hummm? I must be wrong I thought the KM had a clutch and the Gamma machines had ratchets.

My bad... I confused terminology.. you're right, ratchet in the Gamma...

 

[camohommed]

So far I've only strung syngut and multis on my Klippermate but have no problems and recommend it unreservedly.

 

[unorthodox stringing]

I read somewhere in this forum.... that you can learn to string equally fast on the Klippermate without the ratchet, but there is nothing we can do to improve the slightly lower quality Gamma clamps...

I'm using the Klippermate

 

[gmatheis]

So far I've only strung syngut and multis on my Klippermate but have no problems and recommend it unreservedly.

how do you deal with really stretchy strings and the klippermates lack of a ratchet ?

On my gamma, even if I start the string with no slack at all I have to use the ratchet quite a bit with strings that stretch a lot.

 

[Carolina Racquet]

how do you deal with really stretchy strings and the klippermates lack of a ratchet ?

On my gamma, even if I start the string with no slack at all I have to use the ratchet quite a bit with strings that stretch a lot.

Easy.... you bring the arm slight up to release the clutch and you can tighten the slack from the frame to the machine and lower the arm to lock it in place.

Once you string a few, it becomes almost second nature. You do the reverse when you're dealing with a stiffer string like a poly and you're not able to get the arm to level. You pull it up and release string from the clutch and lower it again.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

I used the klippermate for almost 7 years until I upgraded to a neos.

For the majority of my time I was stringing poly's and only had one little issue. I would recommend the machine as a low cost stringing option.

I found that I had to clean the clutch (?) a lot. I found that there would be a building up of coating removed from the string on the clutch and I had to pull apart the clutch frequently to clean it. Not a big deal, but it was an extra step.

I have not had the same issue with the neos ... I still need to clean it, but not nearly as often. And it is not nearly as time intensive.

 

[unorthodox stringing]

I found that I had to clean the clutch (?) a lot. I found that there would be a building up of coating removed from the string on the clutch and I had to pull apart the clutch frequently to clean it. Not a big deal, but it was an extra step.

I find most strings nowadays very "oily". Before stringing, I just wipe them down once or twice with a tissue, sometimes with a squirt of rubbing alcohol.

After doing that, I don't need to clean the string gripper and clamps as often. Maybe once in every 20 to 30 stringjobs, or more?

 

[beernutz]

I used the klippermate for almost 7 years until I upgraded to a neos.

For the majority of my time I was stringing poly's and only had one little issue. I would recommend the machine as a low cost stringing option.

I found that I had to clean the clutch (?) a lot. I found that there would be a building up of coating removed from the string on the clutch and I had to pull apart the clutch frequently to clean it. Not a big deal, but it was an extra step.

I have not had the same issue with the neos ... I still need to clean it, but not nearly as often. And it is not nearly as time intensive.

Ditto. I owned a KM for 5 years and have now owned a Neos for almost 5. The primary difference from your experience is that I strung mostly synthetic gut and multi-filament string on my KM but I still had to regularly clean both the clamps and the cam string gripper. I don't think technically that part of the KM is a clutch but that is probably a nit-pick.

 

[sp1derman]

I'll stick up for the Gamma here as someone who just learned on one with the help of many of the above posters. Yes the clamps are plastic but if you keep them clean you will be fine. The build quality of the Gamma is nice, there isn't much twisting and the metal is thick and of good quality. The clutch mechanism and adjusting the slack manually on the klippermate sounds annoying. I love the ratcheting mechanism on the gamma. The gamma also comes apart nicely which it sounds like the klippermate does as well. Good Luck!

 

[pmata814]

I owned a klippermate and found it very annoying to use. It does get the job done very well though. Ive never used the progression 200 but i have used a pioneer DC and it has a ratcheting system. I much preferred the ratcheting system over the cam system on the klipper.

I also dont understand how the whole 'built like a tank' description got started. This is always a descriptor i saw when reading klippermate reviews. It's not built like a tank. Its made of very thin metal. It's quite light and it moves around on the table very easily unless you have it bolted down somehow. Unless theyre referring to the 'turntable' which IS made of very thick steel. But then again so is the progression. The klipper will do good job though. Good luck.

 

[sp1derman]

I'll stick up for the Gamma here as someone who just learned on one with the help of many of the above posters. Yes the clamps are plastic but if you keep them clean you will be fine. The build quality of the Gamma is nice, there isn't much twisting and the metal is thick and of good quality. The clutch mechanism and adjusting the slack manually on the klippermate sounds annoying. I love the ratcheting mechanism on the gamma. The gamma also comes apart nicely which it sounds like the klippermate does as well. Good Luck!

I am a little wrong. I have a gamma progression 602 with fixed clamps. So I cannot accurately comment on the quality of those floating clamps. Sorry

 

[diredesire]

I read somewhere in this forum.... that you can learn to string equally fast on the Klippermate without the ratchet, but there is nothing we can do to improve the slightly lower quality Gamma clamps...

I'm using the Klippermate

I'm curious... have you actually used the Gamma composite clamps? They're pretty darn good. I prefer them over Klippermate clamps in all honesty.

 

[SOY78]

I had the Klippermate as my 1st stringing machine and I've used it for almost 7 years befopre I upgraded to a fixed clamp Gamma machine. Klippermate is built like a tank in my opinion. I strung all types of strings on it including gut and poly. Once you get used to it, it can be a fast machine. I think my record was 30min stringing a Wilson prostaff 95 with synthetic gut. Haven't tried the Gamma Progression II with the flying clamps but my current stringing machine is a Gamma Progression 602 FC and I love it. It will be a while until I upgrade the current Gamma

 

[lionel_101]

I'm curious... have you actually used the Gamma composite clamps? They're pretty darn good. I prefer them over Klippermate clamps in all honesty.

They work great for me as well. Just clean them every so often and you have no problems.

If I want vise grips pliers for clamps, I would go to the hardware store. Just joking....

 

[struggle]

i had an old "court and slope" dropweight in the 80's and even then i had bought it used.

it was a k-mate, the base with the drawer. strangely, it had a linear gripper and a ratchet/clutch/whatever. it also had a very crude side mount system.

vise grips. they worked ok, but i had two spring loaded clamps also which i much preferred.

 

[unorthodox stringing]

I read somewhere in this forum.... that you can learn to string equally fast on the Klippermate without the ratchet, but there is nothing we can do to improve the slightly lower quality Gamma clamps...

I'm using the Klippermate

I'm curious... have you actually used the Gamma composite clamps? They're pretty darn good. I prefer them over Klippermate clamps in all honesty.

I have not used the gamma clamps before.

But I read so many more cases of not so good reviews about them that I shied away... Moreover, between steel and plastic composite, I believed steel would be much more durable and steady.

You actually ranked gamma clamps below Klippermate's yourself some years back too (see post #7 --> http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=146036)

And here's a few more comments about gamma clamps I read:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=365187

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=472697

Not trying to disparage Gamma products here... I believe they make good stuff, just sharing the basis for my decision...

 

[Tikiman53]

Hey OP,

I use a Gamma Progression II 200. I'm a fairly new stringer. I string my own Microgel Radicals, as well as my sister's rackets and some of my friends'. So far, I haven't encountered any racquet that the Progression is incapable of working with. I don't know anything about the Klippermate, but all I can do is vouch for the Progression's adequacy. Stringing takes me about 30-40 minutes now, so I don't really have any issues with speed. I would recommend getting a starting clamp, as the Progression does not come with one, as well as a nice, sharp pair of scissors.

 

[diredesire]

I have not used the gamma clamps before.

But I read so many more cases of not so good reviews about them that I shied away... Moreover, between steel and plastic composite, I believed steel would be much more durable and steady.

You actually ranked gamma clamps below Klippermate's yourself some years back too (see post #7 --> http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=146036)

And here's a few more comments about gamma clamps I read:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=365187

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=472697

Not trying to disparage Gamma products here... I believe they make good stuff, just sharing the basis for my decision...

No worries, I think you should give them a shot before making any claims on quality, though. That post was many years ago, and I've come around after using them more. The Klippermate clamps are nice because they're built well, and I had similar beliefs "back in the day" in terms of quality. I find the composites easily adjustable, and they seem to resist torquing and twisting better than the Klippermates. I haven't used the Klippermate clamps in many years now, to be fair. I think besides torquing, properties of a flying clamp that are of interest are gripping surface and resistance to slippage. I'm not convinced the Klippermates are better in this respect (although I'd have to do some testing to make sure, and that's not a priority for me )

 

[max]

Vastly prefer Klippermate clamps. The Gamma one I have is awkward and hard to open and dangles/swings from the strings. The Kmate is better balanced and much easier to open, plus it grips along the entire length of the tool; the Gamma seems not quite so level.

Both are fine to use. I feel Kmate has an edge; plus damn sturdy to boot.

 

[jxs653]

I also dont understand how the whole 'built like a tank' description got started. This is always a descriptor i saw when reading klippermate reviews. It's not built like a tank. Its made of very thin metal. It's quite light and it moves around on the table very easily unless you have it bolted down somehow. Unless theyre referring to the 'turntable' which IS made of very thick steel. But then again so is the progression. The klipper will do good job though. Good luck.

I'm not sure if you talk about the same machine other people do. Where is the thin metal? I can't find any. Also are you serious that it moves around on the table because it's light? Probably yours was a fake product?

 

[pmata814]

I'm not sure if you talk about the same machine other people do. Where is the thin metal? I can't find any. Also are you serious that it moves around on the table because it's light? Probably yours was a fake product?

Everything that's yellow is thin metal. I'm not allowed to post links off the bay otherwise I'd post some pics where you can see this. And no, it was NOT fake. If you remove the weight off the bar the whole machine is quite light. I'm sorry but that is not 'built like a tank' as many here describe it. Compare that to an Alpha pioneer DC. Now THAT is built like a tank.

I'm not saying the klippermate is not a good machine. It's ok for what it's meant for. I'm just referring to the 'built like a tank' descriptor.

 

[aced_Tezuka]

Hey guys, I didn't want to start a new thread but I have a couple questions about the Gamma, or any dropweights in general I've had since I started stringing.

Is it normal that when I tension a string I bring the bar to parallel but when I release the clamp the bar goes lower than parallel? Do I bring the bar higher so when I release the clamp it reaches parallel or what?

And I've been told not to make the clamp too tight, but when I don't make it tight enough when I start a stringjob the first string I pull never lets the bar stay parallel and makes both sides uneven.

sorry if I don't make sense. Just wondering if I've been doing anything wrong so far. Thanks!

 

[KaiserW]

Hey guys, I didn't want to start a new thread but I have a couple questions about the Gamma, or any dropweights in general I've had since I started stringing.

Is it normal that when I tension a string I bring the bar to parallel but when I release the clamp the bar goes lower than parallel? Do I bring the bar higher so when I release the clamp it reaches parallel or what?

And I've been told not to make the clamp too tight, but when I don't make it tight enough when I start a stringjob the first string I pull never lets the bar stay parallel and makes both sides uneven.

sorry if I don't make sense. Just wondering if I've been doing anything wrong so far. Thanks!

When you pull tension and clamp you then lift the bar to release the string so you can move on to the next main or cross? So I am not sure I understand your question.

 

[struggle]

He's saying when you get ready to move the clamp (floating) that the bar drops abit more after you unclamp and before you reclamp the next string(s)...........

i think.

if it has a "rachet" or clutch/whatever i guess you'd just re-adjust before re-clamping but it's been way too long since i've used a DW.

 

[gmatheis]

He's saying when you get ready to move the clamp (floating) that the bar drops abit more after you unclamp and before you reclamp the next string(s)...........

i think.

if it has a "rachet" or clutch/whatever i guess you'd just re-adjust before re-clamping but it's been way too long since i've used a DW.

This is correct, however it shouldn't drop much, it sounds to me like your clamps are slipping a bit.

Try using a sharpie to mark the string right next to the clamp after you clamp it but before you release the string from the tensioner to see if it is slipping.

Remember you do have to clean your clamps from time to time, and different types of string as well as different gauges may require your clamps to be set tighter/looser

 

[Irvin]

I don't think the clamps are slipping because if the were the bar would fall before he took off the clamp. Let's say 'aced Tezuka' has the 5th and 6th mains clamped and he releases the tensioner. Here is what happens the 6th string draws the clamp back and as the clamp twists the 5th string draws back and loosens the 4th. When you tension the 7th you straighten the clam but never get all the drawback out. As the bar falls the cane re tension or not just do it the same all the time.

 

[aced_Tezuka]

Clamps don't slip when I tension a main/cross. The bar just drops after releasing a clamp. So I gather that I adjust the bar to parallel after releasing?

So about starting at the center, when I don't have my first clamp tight enough the clamp gets pulled away and the bar never stays parallel as the strings pulls through the clamp. Do I make the clamp tighter when I start it? Because when I have it tighter, the clamp stays in place when I tension and the bar can actually stop at parallel rather than dropping again either pushing or pulling the clamp.

thanks guys!

 

[mrw]

I love my Klippermate. I string just for myself and it has paid for itself many times over. In addition, I can experiment with string combos all I want.

I enjoy working with it and am impressed with the quality of job it produces.

 

[idono1301]

The clamps for klip must be so nice. But honestly, I can't imagine stringing on a dropweight without the ratchet, especially with a stretchy string.

As for aced's question, (not sure if you are still looking for an answer), but I think that the bar may be dropping due to the string that was clamped slowly stretching.

 

[jgrushing]

I'll repeat what I've said many times. I think on synthetics and multis, KM's cam gripper is faster that Gamma's ratchet once you are proficient. For polys, the ratchet makes things a touch easier. However, polys are not a problem on the KM.

I like the KM clamps far better and have both. They are essentially indestructable and are guaranteed for life.

As for the KM being built like a tank, it's extremely durable. I bought mine in '92 and it has been my main stringer for all of that time. Nothing about the machine has ever been repaired. I've strung on many other machines but have never seen the need to change for my personal stringing.

Once proficient, the KM is quite fast. Your limiting factor is weaving, not the machine.

 

[idono1301]

I'll take your word for it for now, as I have yet to try using the klippermate.

Agreed on the clamps. However, I would say that gamma machines are also built like a tank.

Finally, I must disagree with the statement of the machine not being the limiting factor. The time it takes to tension each and every string outweighs the time to weave. For instance, regardless of how fast you weave, you will not be as fast as an electric CP or a crank if using a dropweight. Well, you could, but it would not be a consistent and quality job

 

[Irvin]

I'm pretty sure jgrushing was comparing drop weight to drop weight and not to Electronic or crank.

 

[idono1301]

Oh, haha well that makes more sense and I'd agree with it.

 

[jgrushing]

I'll take your word for it for now, as I have yet to try using the klippermate.

Agreed on the clamps. However, I would say that gamma machines are also built like a tank.

Finally, I must disagree with the statement of the machine not being the limiting factor. The time it takes to tension each and every string outweighs the time to weave. For instance, regardless of how fast you weave, you will not be as fast as an electric CP or a crank if using a dropweight. Well, you could, but it would not be a consistent and quality job

I am talking about dropweight vs. dropweight. However, my brother-in-law has a Neos with a Wise head. I can pull tension faster on my KM than waiting for the Wise. Realize than I've been stringing with a KM for over twenty years. I almost never have to adjust the bar for horizontal. I have strung a familiar racquet in 22 minutes and I'm only a good, not great, weaver. That's pretty good speed for a home stringer. 25 - 30 minutes is totally routine. But, I've probably strung close to 1000 racquets on my KM.

 

[Irvin]

I am talking about dropweight vs. dropweight. However, my brother-in-law has a Neos with a Wise head. I can pull tension faster on my KM than waiting for the Wise. Realize than I've been stringing with a KM for over twenty years. I almost never have to adjust the bar for horizontal. I have strung a familiar racquet in 22 minutes and I'm only a good, not great, weaver. That's pretty good speed for a home stringer. 25 - 30 minutes is totally routine. But, I've probably strung close to 1000 racquets on my KM.

Have you watched the video where the guy wants to set a record? After he hits the tension button there is no waiting. Have you watched the TW video where they strung a racket in about 6 min? No way a drop weight will compete with a Electronic or crank for speed if that's what you're looking for.

 

[jgrushing]

Guys...I am talking about basic, amateur home stringing. I am not stupid enough to think you could set a world record with a dropweight. That being said, if I can string a racquet in 22 minutes on my KM, a really good weaver could do it in 12 if he were proficient with the mechanics of the KM.

Irvin, I can't believe you'd think I was putting a KM against a high end electric. Is there a thread on this forum you aren't involved in? Haha...

 

[Irvin]

...Irvin, I can't believe you'd think I was putting a KM against a high end electric. Is there a thread on this forum you aren't involved in? Haha...

Lots of them, 8 on page one but who's counting? LOL

 

[Rabbit]

Well Irvin can string a racquet in 4 minutes. He has a video to prove it.


(At least to him)