Knee issues for Rafael Nadal: 'I don't know whether I play Basel, Paris'

D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
don't buy this narrative, sorry.

I don't think Nadal-Djokovic are that fragile to let one intense 3-setter take them out for the rest of the season.

In 2009 , Murray had won Doha, made the finals of IW (beat Federer in the semi and lost in a heavy windy final to Nadal), won Miami (beating Delpo and Djokovic). He just continued his best form on Bo3 on HC, winning Canada, making the semi of Cincy(losing to federer). then won Valencia , got bounced out of Paris early (rare early Bo3 loss) and then got trolled out of the YEC semi by fed-del potro. (of course he did well at wimby too, making the semi and wasn't that good on clay back then)

Federer finally got rid of not having rhythm on serve due to back problems by the time of Madrid and served like a monster from Madrid upto the semifinal vs Djokovic at the USO. The rest of his game was also boosted by that serving. So he went on a tear winning 31/32 matches from madrid 09 to USO 2009 SF.

Djokovic was just surprised by Kohlscreiber at the FO, not expecting such a performance from him early on and hence lost in straights in a below par performance.

then made final in Halle, QF in Wimbledon -- both losses to Haas. But then Haas has been troublesome to djokovic in general. Not great form by djokovic, but not poor either.

then loss to roddick in canada (loss in itself was not bad, but perf. from djoko was not good), then made final at cincy beating Nadal in a great perf in the semi, made the semi at the USO and was playing well, but federer was too good for him in the semi. Then won Beijing beating Verdasco, Soderling, Cilic. lost in semi of Shanghai to an in-form davydenko, won Basel beating federer in his own backyard, won Paris beating Soderling, Nadal and Monfils. Then at the YEC, an intense tournament, won 2 matches and lost 1, could not make the semi.

As far as Nadal goes, he had the best run of his career from clay season 2008 to clay season 2009. the loss to Soderling at RG was a big blow.
and his form went down after that. His parents divorce also played some part in that I assume.

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As far as Doha 2017 is concerned, come on, 35.5 year old fed can get through 2 intense 3-setters vs Berdych, Kyrgios and beat Nadal in straights in the final (this after having won IW just a few days before), you expect 29.5-30 yr old Djoko/Murray to be fine.

Djoko has been inconsistent since last year's Wimbledon. He didn't put up a great performance in the semi vs Verdasco and should've lost, but surivived and put a great perf. in the final.

He didn't play great at the AO vs Istomin, but wasn't awful either (unlike the Simon match in 16). His aura of indoors 14 to mid-2016 wasn't there. That enabled Istomin to be fearless and play the big points well -- which was highly crucial in that match.

Murray used to be very good vs SnVers, but maybe his reactions have declined a bit now and he lost to an in-form Mischa Zverev playing great tennis on a fast AO surface...Murray was also was probably burnt out by the run he had in the 2nd half of 2016 to get to#1. It wasn't the Doha match.

Hey don't worry about it, no need to apologize. Difference of opinion is cool.

Just to let you know though, I didn't read any of your post after that first line, just not going there if that is OK with you. ;)
 

merwy

G.O.A.T.
Nadal had to skip Basel and Paris while Fed wins Basel, Paris and WTF in order for Fed to still end as #1. Seems pretty hopeless unfortunately.
 
LOL, says the nadal fanboy.

Both were playing fine at Shanghai. Delpo in particular played awesome tennis in the match vs Federer and had no problem whatsoever with his wrist.

Nadal was perfectly fine too. Just got hit out of court as is usual on an indoor court.

Nadal was the one far luckier with Federer's injury at Montreal and subsequently timing being off at the USO.
Ohh come on... Did you actually watched the final today?! Did you see the bandage around his knee, did you see how much his movement was off.

Nadal was fine? Really? The guy could easily skip the rest of this season because of this injury.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Ohh come on... Did you actually watched the final today?! Did you see the bandage around his knee, did you see how much his movement was hampered.

Nadal was fine? Really? The guy could easily skip the rest of this season because of this injury.

yes, I absolutely did. I was posting through the match as well.
His movement was 100%.

The bandage around the knee was just a precaution.

---

and its obvious you didn't watch the fed-delpo match given your utterly ignorant comment.
 

User123

Hall of Fame
yes, I absolutely did. I was posting through the match as well.
His movement was 100%.

The bandage around the knee was just a precaution.

---

and its obvious you didn't watch the fed-delpo match given your utterly ignorant comment.
Last time his movement was 100% was somewhere in 2012.
 

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
I don't have any idea why Basel is on his schedule anyway. Take the two weeks, and go to Paris. Unless you're desperate for points, or from one of the places they are held, what is the point in playing 500's at this point in the season?
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I don't have any idea why Basel is on his schedule anyway. Take the two weeks, and go to Paris. Unless you're desperate for points, or from one of the places they are held, what is the point in playing 500's at this point in the season?

didn't make sense to me either -- playing both Beijing and Basel.
 

Tennisanity

Legend
Exactly. There was absolutely no indication at all he was injured today, nor at any point during the entire HC season. Twice he gestured to Roig that the court speed was simply "too fast" for his liking. He'll skip Basel because he doesn't want to meet Federer but will play Paris.

He has ridiculously overplayed the entire year and is 31 years old. He was going to pay the price for poor scheduling one way or the other. He looked mentally burned out today and disengaged because he has ground himself down since January. Has nothing to do with his knee.:rolleyes:

Federer himself said he was surprised Nadal played Beijing. Thought he was overplaying. Fed would know after all.
 

Crionics

Semi-Pro
If he pulls out of those events, he could open the door for Federer to take the number one ranking. There are still 3000 points on the table between Basel, Paris and WTF to win.

Do you really believe Federer will play all 3 remaining events? I am pretty confident he will skip either Basel or Paris. This season showed that Federer has to take regular breaks to remain competitive.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Do you really believe Federer will play all 3 remaining events? I am pretty confident he will skip either Basel or Paris. This season showed that Federer has to take regular breaks to remain competitive.

I am actually with you on that one.
 

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
didn't make sense to me either -- playing both Beijing and Basel.
Indeed! Thought the same thing last week "Why are you playing this?" But that at least comes after a month of downtime, and can help you get back into the swing of things, and he's always played it as far as I can recall. I don't recall him going to Basel prior to 2015, and then it made sense considering how his year had gone.
 

Noelan

Legend
Laver Cup softened Nadal killer instinct. Fed wanted him as friend , not a rival. They have be working on it since autumn 2015:D

Srs, anyone who watched today final could see Nadal couln't move to save his life. It could be cumulative tiredness , or niggling injury that hindered his movement and shot preparations. He missed so many BHs (up to few days ago - goat BH contender but sadly underrated here LOL), FHs landed to short.. Federer played tactically smart match as he took Nadal time and made him run even more.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Do you really believe Federer will play all 3 remaining events? I am pretty confident he will skip either Basel or Paris. This season showed that Federer has to take regular breaks to remain competitive.

It could very well depend on Nadal and the ranking.

At this moment, I think its nearly certain that Nadal will not play Basel.
In case he chooses to skip Paris as well, I think Federer would be sorely tempted to play to get that #1 ranking.
 
C

Chadillac

Guest
I know a few 12 year olds who say the same things after a loss, no way they would ever lose a match if healthy
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Ohh come on... Did you actually watched the final today?! Did you see the bandage around his knee, did you see how much his movement was off.

Nadal was fine? Really? The guy could easily skip the rest of this season because of this injury.

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you! He won't give up his claim on ye #1 so easily!
 

Noelan

Legend
I don't have any idea why Basel is on his schedule anyway. Take the two weeks, and go to Paris. Unless you're desperate for points, or from one of the places they are held, what is the point in playing 500's at this point in the season?
Because he has contract with Basel tournament.
 

Crionics

Semi-Pro
It could very well depend on Nadal and the ranking.

At this moment, I think its nearly certain that Nadal will not play Basel.
In case he chooses to skip Paris as well, I think Federer would be sorely tempted to play to get that #1 ranking.

I think Nadal will skip Basel and play Paris. Apparently he had some knee-tape on today (didn't see the match), maybe he was just making up an official excuse to skip Basel; he needs to skip Basel, because he has played to much this season and looked mentally fried in the SF in Shanghai (didn't see any of his other matches in Shanghai).
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I think Nadal will skip Basel and play Paris. Apparently he had some knee-tape on today (didn't see the match), maybe he was just making up an official excuse to skip Basel; he needs to skip Basel, because he has played to much this season and looked mentally fried in the SF in Shanghai (didn't see any of his other matches in Shanghai).

that looks to be the most likely scenario.
knee tape was either a precaution or excuse to skip Basel.
He wasn't hampered in the match at all.
 

merwy

G.O.A.T.
Federer definitely has a chance of ending as YE#1, slim as it is. He can win 3000pts more if he plays Basel, Paris and WTF. He HAS to win each and every one of them, especially the last one. If Nadal makes every final, Nadal still finishes #1. But if he doesn't make the final of the WTF, Fed is #1. Obviously Nadal not playing Basel and Paris would help, but it doesn't change the fact that Fed needs to win all 3 tournaments for a guaranteed #1 spot.
 

aman92

Legend
Even if he pulls out of both..Federer isn't winning 4 tournaments in a row. I think both will end up skipping Paris
 
I think Federer is 100% bent on prolonging his career. To this end, don't think he sees the value added at this point of chasing #1 when he is firmly the #2 seed and can avoid getting crummy draws at big tournaments; expect him to skip Paris, and potentially Basel.

As someone else mentioned, just look at what happened the last time someone went all-out to get #1: Murray completely trashed his 2017 season just to get #1, and I don't think anyone would argue that having a full season in exchange for #1 is worth it
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
I think Federer is 100% bent on prolonging his career. To this end, don't think he sees the value added at this point of chasing #1 when he is firmly the #2 seed and can avoid getting crummy draws at big tournaments; expect him to skip Paris, and potentially Basel.

As someone else mentioned, just look at what happened the last time someone went all-out to get #1: Murray completely trashed his 2017 season just to get #1, and I don't think anyone would argue that having a full season in exchange for #1 is worth it

I doubt he skips Basel. Too much pride when it comes to playing in his hometown. I think it would be a good decision if he played it anyway.
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
If Nadal is smart, he will back off NOW and forget about the YE No 1. His sole purpose at this point should be preserving his body and winning more slams. He has a decent shot at the AO if he gets healthy.

Fed would be wise to do the same. I guarantee he will mess up his back if he plays a full schedule for the rest of the year.

Let Dimitrov win some titles.
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
If Nadal is smart, he will back off NOW and forget about the YE No 1. His sole purpose at this point should be preserving his body and winning more slams. He has a decent shot at the AO if he gets healthy.

Fed would be wise to do the same. I guarantee he will mess up his back if he plays a full schedule for the rest of the year.

Let Dimitrov win some titles.

Nadal is aboslutely fine. He will run around like a rabbit again come Paris and WTF. You just wait and see.
 

every7

Hall of Fame
Really hoping Rafa pulls through this, and is fit for the most important tourneys the rest of the year.

IMO he simply must play Paris Bercy and WTF. Skip Mickey Mouse Basel and everything else, though.
 
I doubt he skips Basel. Too much pride when it comes to playing in his hometown. I think it would be a good decision if he played it anyway.

Hence *potentially.* I say that if Rog decides to take his fitness incredibly seriously in the lead-up to the end of the season and into the next season, which there is no reason to suspect he won't, he will possibly consider either a withdraw or strategic tank from Basel.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Hence *potentially.* I say that if Rog decides to take his fitness incredibly seriously in the lead-up to the end of the season and into the next season, which there is no reason to suspect he won't, he will possibly consider either a withdraw or strategic tank from Basel.

I can't see it tbh. I think Basel is too important to Federer, as in it's probably the 5th most important tourney on his calendar after the slams. In other words it's more important to Federer than the WTF and all the other Masters just because of the hometown factor, but I am only guessing. I also expect he skips Paris, but I don't think he'd withdraw or strategically tank Basel unless he really was injured, and even in 2013 he played it and made the final (although it would be somewhat hard to tell if he strategically tanked, to be fair).
 

duaneeo

Legend
As someone else mentioned, just look at what happened the last time someone went all-out to get #1: Murray completely trashed his 2017 season just to get #1, and I don't think anyone would argue that having a full season in exchange for #1 is worth it

In 2016, Murray played the Australian Open, Indian Wells, Miami, Monte Carlo, Madrid, Rome, Roland Garros, Queens, Wimbledon, The Olympics, Cincinnati, US Open, China, Shanghai, Vienna, Paris, the World Tour Finals...and four Davis Cup matches. Not a good analogy to Federer's 2017.
 
Fed will surely play Basel if he is fit. He has strong feelings about that tournament, and will have hated missing it last year.

My guess is that he's leaning towards missing Paris, but will wait and see how Basel goes. If he wins Basel without dropping a set, and feels fine physically, he might well go into Paris. But he's stated clearly that WTF is his priority now, and he won't do anything to jeopardise that. He'll be mindful of what happened in Canada, I think.

YE#1 is basically gone anyway. I doubt that Nadal will skip Paris. Fed winning Shanghai, Basel, Paris & WTF in a row and within 5 weeks seems like fantasy anyway. He has had an amazing year, but hasn't won more than two tournaments in a row. He did look fresh in the Shanghai final, so you never know, but my guess is that it's more likely the YE#1 is safe for Nadal before WTF starts than that Federer has a genuine chance to clinch it.

However, there is still a chance that Fed could get to #1 at some point in 2018. He is defending a lot of points - but Nadal is defending more than 2000 points more than him in the clay-court season. Now, Fed is unlikely to play on clay, and Nadal is very likely to do well again on the clay. However, with Murray, Djokovic and Wawrinka potential early-round opponents for both of them early in the season, there is a big degree of uncertainty. The chance to reach #1 again will almost surely never again present itself, so he may think it's worth cutting into Rafa's lead, if he can do so while not endangering his health.

Then again, #1 may not be that important to Fed at this point.
 

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
I saw this coming. He played through the whole US Open series, then Laver Cup, and now played all the matches in Beijing and Shanghai. Considering he used to be cooked by this time of the year, I don't see him doing well from here to the end of the year anyway. It's up to Federer to win both Basel and Paris, and set himself up for the challenge for YE#1. It's all on his racquet. He said he will play all of Basel, Paris and WTF after Shanghai win yesterday. It's only 3 more tourneys and then he will have good holiday, so I think that's the right decision. I thought he was extremely unfortunate to get the back injury in Montreal which cost him Cincy, USO and no.1 ranking, but maybe he can still get the YE#1 now.
 

Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
Rarely is the no.1 ranking up for grabs at WTF.
Not to mention that the OE started in '68, so we are not looking at 150 years, plus the present set up, with the WTF happening when it does is hardly something that has been going on for so long.
 

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
In 2016, Murray played the Australian Open, Indian Wells, Miami, Monte Carlo, Madrid, Rome, Roland Garros, Queens, Wimbledon, The Olympics, Cincinnati, US Open, China, Shanghai, Vienna, Paris, the World Tour Finals...and four Davis Cup matches. Not a good analogy to Federer's 2017.

The only similarity will be Federer will sweep through the last 4 events(Shanghai, Basel, Paris and WTF) to snatch YE#1 away from his rival. :)
 

Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
doesn't want to grind on clay at 35.5, 36.

Look at what happened at Montreal with the injury (even with a reduced schedule)

H2H is just a good side benefit.
I agree, but I would also say that faster HCs for Rafa are now a lot like clay is for Fed because the opposite speed and conditions better suit their games.

The more important point is what this present situation will do to their years.

I think we accepted Murray as #1 last year because of the way he finished. If Novak had clearly dominated the H2H last year, I think more people would have disagreed with the ATP ranking.

Just think about how the people in the former pros section still argue about years. If Fed wins the WTF - and let's not give these guys titles before they earn them - except some vicious arguments here in a couple months.

The VB and "Fed Fan" will be locked in WWIII...
 
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