Kobayashi Maru String Scenario

g4driver

Hall of Fame
The player breaks the Hyper G Mains of a Hyper G 1.30mm/1.25mm Head Hawk set up in his Ai 98 in 12 hours, he now has a serious elbow injury and wants to keep playing but you can't use "poly" or Kelvar.

Can you find him a solution with these restrictions: 1) the setup lasts at least 10 hours 2) does not hurt his elbow 3) no poly/kevlar 4) reasonable cost ($15 a frame for strings max, but the lower the better)

Background: I've been stringing for a high-level 4.5 player who bounces between 5.0 and 4.5. He's a doctor in his mid-40s. He hits a lot of spin compared to teammates and players at his level, and breaks strings faster than any player I have met, due to his spin. He had been using Hyper G 1.30mm/Head Hawk 1.25mm for two years in his Yonex Ai98 frames without any issue. He broke the 1.30mm Hyper G every 12 hours or 6th outing on a tennis court. For 2+ years, I have strung two to three frames a month for him. This past winter he played in a singles ladders vs other 4.5/5.0 guys and his elbow now needs surgery. This isn't just TE, but rather an injury that will require surgery. "Torn common insertion of the flexor tendon on the medial epicondyle. Golfer's elbow is inflammation of this location. I went past inflammation and tore it." His orthopedic surgeon (also a 4.5 player in his mid-40s) told him he won't do more damage by hitting but to simply pick a string setup that doesn't hurt his elbow until surgery. I happen to string for both of these doctors and they both break strings rather quickly. The player with the injury wants to wait until after his 17-year-old son graduates High School to have surgery, so he can hit with his son during the son's last HS year.

Stop reading and think about what would you do as this guy's stringer. Here's the process I went through.

Thought Process and Failed Attempts: So I tried: a) Prince Premiere Control (PPC) 1.40mm / Head Velocity 1.30mm. He broke that in less than 8 hours. b) Full bed of Tecnifibre HDX Tour. The stringbed locks, then snap. c) Gut/Poly. Easy right? Not so quick. 1.35mm Touch Tonic/1.25mm Revolve crosses, but the Revolve crosses bothered him. He didn't break the gut he just said too stiff. And that's when the "No Poly/Kelvar" request came in. d) 1.35mm HDX Tour/ 1.30mm Velocity. Getting closer but 1.30mm Velocity is the weak link and not available in 1.35mm in the US. I went through string combos left and right. Nothing seemed to work. There are very few strings that aren't poly that last more than 10 hours for him even in 1.35mm or 1.40mm gauge like Prince Premiere Control. I couldn't seem to solve this puzzle

Kobayashi Maru? A problem with no solution. Perhaps. So I schooled of James T. Kirk's putt and cheated. How? with Isospeed Cream and Yonex Poly Tour Air crosses. Why those two strings? Because they aren't true "polys". The are elastomer infused polys, and perhaps he wouldn't feel the poly in them. So what is elastomer? A fancy name for rubber.


Eureka Moment: When he told me he liked the Touch Tonic /YPTA that was my big break. While gut/poly works for many players including myself for a long time, it didn't work for more than 10-12 hours for a heavy string-breaker even using YPTA or Cream and it's an expensive setup.

Next issue: Pricing: Babolat Touch Tonic 1.35mm is $36 a pack. Yonex Poly Tour Air is $15 a pack. Isospeed Cream is $7 a pack. Naturally, he liked the YPTA more. :( Per pack that's $25.50 for a Gut/YPTA setup that lasting him 12 hours max. With labor that's $40.5 a frame for a normal client. He isn't a normal client. He's my best client. My most frequent customer. Even if I get Klip Legend at $30 a pack or Babolt Touch Tonic at $26 a pack, it still expensive. Even with Cream at $7 a pack or YPTA crosses off of reels with the crosses at $2.50 each, the strings are $15.50 a frame. $30.50 per frame strung and he breaks two a month min.

My solution: Enter Tecnifibre and their poly infused multis of HDX Tour replaced by HDMX and now their new string Triax. HDX Tour. It's got a natural color it comes in 1.35mm but it never came in a reel and it was replaced by HDMX. It did come in 20 pack boxes and I bought four boxes of it. HDMX comes in 1.35mm and it comes in reels which is great for crosses if you hate tosses 3.5' of string in the trash from a half pack. It only comes in day-glow yellow, but hope it will come in a natural color soon. The only way to make these setups affordable is through reels when the strings are on sale. I got the price of the strings down to slightly less than $9 a frame. ( $6.50 for the mains and $2.50 for the crosses)

1.35mm HDX Tour or 1.35mm HDMX, or 1.33mm/1.38mm Triax in the mains with YPTA or Cream crosses. He's playtesting three Ai98s with YPTA crosses all strung at 54M/52X with those three Tecnifibre Strings in the mains. He's picking on of those soon. If he picks HDX Tour, he'll have about 5 years worth of HDX Tour. Hopefully, by then HDMX will be available in natural. There are very few strings on the market like Tecnifibre multi/poly fusions, of Triax and HDMX. NXT Control is one, but it doesn't come in 1.35mm reels that I have found. The combo of two different fused strings is a solution I have found that he is happy with. He never cared if the main string was gut or a Tecnifibre option and he has no issue generating spin and neither string hurt his elbow. He is now going to see if he has a preference for mains.

For a cheaper solution for anyone with TE, Prince Premiere Control / Isospeed Cream might work for you, but PPC isn't as durable as the Tecnifibre poly infused multis

Having hit with Wilson Natural Gut (the made in France version) / Head Hawk for years in previous frames, it is a great setup and lasted a long time. I've used 1.30mm Lux and 1.35mm Babolat Touch Tonic gut mains in my own frames with Wilson Revolve, Tier One Ghostwire, YPTA, Cream, and Head Hawk crosses. One poster asked why not just use Gut/Poly if he breaks in 12 hours? Cost and performance. The performance of these Tecnifibre poly infused multis with YPTA hits as soft as Gut/YPTA to my arm and to the guy who started me down this rabbit hole to begin with. Honestly, I don't feel the difference between the Natural Gut /YPTA vs HDMX or HDX Tour /YPTA. I could hit with either setup, as can the 4.5 player with the elbow pain. The player doesn't notice any remarkable benefit of the Natural Gut over the Tecnifibre options.

Something to consider: Perhaps I could see how he feels if I swap the setup to put YPTA in the mains and move the Tecnifibre strings in the crosses. I've already broken the no-poly rule, but then again are YTPA and Cream really polys or simply half polys? I will get there, but for now, I have a solution.

Final Thoughts: Plenty of people swear by Gut/Poly, and I have no doubt that is the best setup for many players. But for the money, the Tecnifibre/YPTA combos do amazingly well, particularly if you have a sensitive elbow. In 10+ years of stringing, this was the most challenging request I have had. Not rocket science like one guy wrote, but also not an easy riddle with all the limitations and the frequency of string breakage. I read so many posts from new posters asking about string setups and many mention they are using poly strings even with elbow pain, whether it in the mains or as a cross. Just hope these type players realize there are options other than traditional polys that offer elbow comfort. I'm not getting into the issue of low-level players using poly. That's a different subject entirely. Hope others with TE or elbow injuries find this information useful. Not a perfect solution and I am sure there are better ones out. If you have something you know works for a player that breaks strings this quickly, please share the setup.

edited for spelling and grammatical mistakes. $11.66 a month for a paid Grammarly account is a bit too steep for me as a tennis hack.
 
Last edited:

haqq777

Legend
Kobayashi Maru String Scenario: The player breaks the Hyper G Mains of a Hyper G 1.30mm/1.25mm Head Hawk set up in his Ai 98 in 12 hours, he now has a serious elbow injury and wants to keep playing but you can't use "poly" or Kelvar.

Can you find him a solution with these restrictions: 1) the setup last at least 10 hours 2) does not hurt his elbow 3) no poly/kevlar 4) reasonable cost ($15 a frame for strings max, but the lower the better)

Background: I've been stringing for a high-level 4.5 player who bounces between 5.0 and 4.5. He's a doctor in his mid-40s. Hits a lot of spin compared to teammates and players at his level and breaks strings faster than any player I have met, due to his spin. He had been using Hyper G 1.30mm/Head Hawk 1.25mm for two years in his Yonex Ai98 frames without any issue. He broke the 1.30mm Hyper G every 12 hours or 6th outing on a tennis court. For 2+ years, I have strung two to three frames a month for him. This past winter he played in a singles ladders vs other 4.5/5.0 guys and his elbow now needs surgery. This isn't just TE, but rather an injury that will require surgery. His orthopedic surgeon (also a 4.5 player in his mid-40s) told him he won't do more damage by hitting but to simply pick a string setup that doesn't hurt his elbow until surgery. I happen to string for both of these doctors and they both break strings rather quickly. The player with the injury wants to wait until after his 17-year-old son graduates High School to have surgery, so he can hit with his son

Stop reading and think about what would you do as this guy's stringer. Here's the process I went through.

Thought Process and Failed Attempts: So I tried: a) Prince Premiere Control (PPC) 1.40mm / Head Velocity 1.30mm. He broke that in less than 8 hours. b) Full bed of Tecnifibre HDX Tour. The stringbed locks, then snap. c) Gut/Poly. Easy right? Not so quick. 1.35mm Touch Tonic/1.25mm Revolve crosses, but the Revolve crosses bothered him. He didn't break the gut he just said too stiff. And that's when the "No Poly/Kelvar" request came in. d) 1.35mm HDX Tour/ 1.30mm Velocity. Getting closer but 1.30mm Velocity is the weak link and not available in 1.35mm in the US. I went through string combos left and right. Nothing seemed to work. There are very few strings that aren't poly that last more than 10 hours for him even in 1.35mm or 1.40mm gauge like Prince Premiere Control. I couldn't seem to solve this puzzle

Kobayashi Maru? A problem with no solution. Perhaps. So I schooled of James T. Kirk's putt and cheated. How? with Isospeed Cream and Yonex Poly Tour Air crosses. Why those two strings? Because they aren't true "polys". The are elastomer infused polys, and perhaps he wouldn't feel the poly in them. So what is elastomer? A fancy name for rubber.


Eureka Moment: When he told me he liked the Touch Tonic /YPTA that was my big break. While gut/poly works for many players including myself for a long time, it didn't work for more than 10-12 hours for a heavy string-breaker even using YPTA or Cream and it's an expensive setup.

Next issue: Pricing: Babolat Touch Tonic 1.35mm is $36 a pack. Yonex Poly Tour Air is $15 a pack. Isospeed Cream is $7 a pack. Naturally, he liked the YPTA more. :( Per pack that's $25.50 for a Gut/YPTA setup that lasting him 12 hours max. With labor that's $40.5 a frame for a normal client. He isn't a normal client. He's my best client. My most frequent customer. Even if I get Klip Legend at $30 a pack or Babolt Touch Tonic at $26 a pack, it still expensive. Even with Cream at $7 a pack or YPTA crosses off of reels with the crosses at $2.50 each, the strings are $15.50 a frame. $30.50 per frame strung and he breaks two a month min.

My solution: Enter Tecnifibre and their poly infused multis of HDX Tour replaced by HDMX and now their new string Triax. HDX Tour. It's got a natural color it comes in 1.35mm but it never came in a reel and it was replaced by HDMX. It did come in 20 pack boxes and I bought four boxes of it. HDMX comes in 1.35mm and it comes in reels which is great for crosses if you hate tosses 3.5' of string in the trash from a half pack. It only comes in day-glow yellow, but hope it will come in a natural color soon. The only way to make these setups affordable is through reels when the strings are on sale. I got the price of the strings down to slightly less than $9 a frame. ( $6.50 for the mains and $2.50 for the crosses)

1.35mm HDX Tour or 1.35mm HDMX, or 1.33mm/1.38mm Triax in the mains with YPTA or Cream crosses. He's playtesting three Ai98s with YPTA crosses all strung at 54M/52X with those three Tecnifibre Strings in the mains. He's picking on of those soon. If he picks HDX Tour, he'll have about 5 years worth of HDX Tour. Hopefully, by then HDMX will be available in natural. There are very few strings on the market like Tecnifibre multi/poly fusions, of Triax and HDMX. NXT Control is one, but it doesn't come in 1.35mm reels that I have found. The combo of two different fused strings is a solution I have found that he is happy with. He never cared if the main string was gut or a Tecnifibre option and he has no issue generating spin and neither string hurt his elbow. He is now going to see if he has a preference for mains.

For a cheaper solution for anyone with TE, Prince Premiere Control / Isospeed Cream might work for you, but PPC isn't as durable as the Tecnifibre poly infused multis

Having hit with Wilson Natural Gut (the made in France version) / Head Hawk for years in previous frames, it is a great setup and lasted a long time. I've used 1.30mm Lux and 1.35mm Babolat Touch Tonic gut mains in my own frames with Wilson Revolve, Tier One Ghostwire, YPTA, Cream, and Head Hawk crosses. One poster asked why not just use Gut/Poly if he breaks in 12 hours? Cost and performance. The performance of these Tecnifibre poly infused multis with YPTA hits as soft as Gut/YPTA to my arm and to the guy who started me down this rabbit hole to begin with. Honestly, I don't feel the difference between the Natural Gut /YPTA vs HDMX or HDX Tour /YPTA. I could hit with either setup, as can the 4.5 player with the elbow pain. The player doesn't notice any remarkable benefit of the Natural Gut over the Tecnifibre options.

Something to consider: Perhaps I could see how he feels if I swap the setup to put YPTA in the mains and move the Tecnifibre strings in the crosses. I've already broken the no-poly rule, but then again are YTPA and Cream really polys or simply half polys? I will get there, but for now, I have a solution.

Final Thoughts:
Plenty of people swear by Gut/Poly, and I have no doubt that is the best setup for many players. But for the money, the Tecnifibre/YPTA combos do amazingly well, particularly if you have a sensitive elbow. In 10+ years of stringing, this was the most challenging request I have had. Not rocket science like one guy wrote, but also not an easy riddle with all the limitations and the frequency of string breakage. I read so many posts from new posters asking about string setups and many mention they are using poly strings even with elbow pain, whether it in the mains or as a cross. Just hope these type players realize there are options other than traditional polys that offer elbow comfort. I'm not getting into the issue of low-level players using poly. That's a different subject entirely. Hope others with TE or elbow injuries find this information useful. Not a perfect solution and I am sure there are better ones out. If you have something you know works for a player that breaks strings this quickly, please share the setup.
GOAT thread.

Regards,
Fellow Trekkie.
 

1HBHfanatic

Legend
@g4driver

-string breakers need to look into tighter pattern sticks "."
-same player with a v7 wilson.blade 18/20 stick will not break strings as often
-if this player wants to stay with yonex, now he can try the y.vcore.pro.HD, thats a 18/20 pattern

-im not a doctor, but this is what i would consider
-TE issues can be mitigated by using a heavier stick (yes heavier sticks) with MORE headlight balance
-the ai, dr, ezone sticks are geting too light, and causing issues
-i am not surprised he is getting too much vibration at the higher levels of play with this stick
-the ai stick is fast!!, but it sounds like its not countering enough of the ball impact, and his elbow/ wrist are getting the worst of it
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
@1HBHfanatic

Thanks much for the post. I will certainly suggest he consider switching frames. I string the Yonex HD Pro or allowing me to add some weight to his current frames. That frame is ever more arm friendly than the Ai98s.

This isn't a case of TE, but rather a much worse injury. I can ask him about the specific diagnose later today. I have had TE twice in my life. Notice the weight of my frames. 342 grams. All the weight is through Fairway grips and Tungsten putty. Heavier sticks definitely absorb more shock than lighter ones.
 

gutfeeling

Hall of Fame
My simple solutions for TE due to stiff strings and/or frames:

1. Change from full poly stringbed to poly mains and gut/multi crosses. Less drastic of a change when coming from a firm full poly stringbed. Despite the conventional wisdom, natural gut crosses do provide a comfort and performance improvement over multi and synthetic gut.
2. Tailweight the frame and add weight to hoop if/as needed. Increases the frame's recoil weight which makes it feel/play softer. Player may even swing less fast (less torque on elbow) due to added weight.
3. Combine 1 and 2.
 
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Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
The answer to the riddle is to switch frames. Tweener frames are string breakers due to open string beds with stiff wide beams.
Tough to get any non-poly to last in such a frame. If he is to go with softer string setup, he needs to accept more frequent re-stringings in a string eating racket.

Legend/Cream would be the solution I would offer if he refused to look at different frames. He's a doctor so he shouldn't be such a cheapskate. You are talking $19 a frame and will get your 15 hours of longevity in all likelihood. Especially if you 15L the Legend and 16L the Cream.
 

Injured Again

Hall of Fame
@g4driver When I was going through the worst of my wrist injury (TFCC injury) that started last November/December and lasted through the beginning of the pandemic, I happened to try Ultra Cable at that time. Impact harshness is a lot less than my normal Silver 7 Tour, and I would judge it to be more cushioned than Hyper-G. The Ultra Cable helped me play through a tournament even though my wrist was at its worst during that time, and I only ended up cutting it out at about 20 hours because it had lost tension, compounding that because it is such a thick string, it made the swingweight of my racquet heavier than I wanted. Most other strings notch through and break for me in the 10-12 hour range and at 20 hours the Ultra Cable still had many hours left in it. Very high spin capability but also a fairly high launch angle.

My experience was as a full bed - a hybrid would soften it even more. I know you said "no poly" but I think Ultra Cable's softness might make it an outside possibility, especially since your player is spin reliant.
 
This is a great thread, I don't see why we are still talking about poly though.

I would try to sell your customer on going the safer route given we are talking about a serious injury that requires surgery and will have a recovery period.

The additional cost and restringing frequency can be justified as a recovery cost or considered part of the cost of having an operation. Much like there will be a cost of physical therapy and recovery practices that can't be skipped "because you want to save money".

These strings are going to last longer than normal because he won't be hitting as hard and as frequent during recovery. I would propose how much extra it would cost over 6-9 months to go the safe route.
 

PigPen

Semi-Pro
Kobayashi Maru String Scenario: The player breaks the Hyper G Mains of a Hyper G 1.30mm/1.25mm Head Hawk set up in his Ai 98 in 12 hours, he now has a serious elbow injury and wants to keep playing but you can't use "poly" or Kelvar.

Can you find him a solution with these restrictions: 1) the setup last at least 10 hours 2) does not hurt his elbow 3) no poly/kevlar 4) reasonable cost ($15 a frame for strings max, but the lower the better)

Background: I've been stringing for a high-level 4.5 player who bounces between 5.0 and 4.5. He's a doctor in his mid-40s. Hits a lot of spin compared to teammates and players at his level and breaks strings faster than any player I have met, due to his spin. He had been using Hyper G 1.30mm/Head Hawk 1.25mm for two years in his Yonex Ai98 frames without any issue. He broke the 1.30mm Hyper G every 12 hours or 6th outing on a tennis court. For 2+ years, I have strung two to three frames a month for him. This past winter he played in a singles ladders vs other 4.5/5.0 guys and his elbow now needs surgery. This isn't just TE, but rather an injury that will require surgery. His orthopedic surgeon (also a 4.5 player in his mid-40s) told him he won't do more damage by hitting but to simply pick a string setup that doesn't hurt his elbow until surgery. I happen to string for both of these doctors and they both break strings rather quickly. The player with the injury wants to wait until after his 17-year-old son graduates High School to have surgery, so he can hit with his son

Stop reading and think about what would you do as this guy's stringer. Here's the process I went through.

Thought Process and Failed Attempts: So I tried: a) Prince Premiere Control (PPC) 1.40mm / Head Velocity 1.30mm. He broke that in less than 8 hours. b) Full bed of Tecnifibre HDX Tour. The stringbed locks, then snap. c) Gut/Poly. Easy right? Not so quick. 1.35mm Touch Tonic/1.25mm Revolve crosses, but the Revolve crosses bothered him. He didn't break the gut he just said too stiff. And that's when the "No Poly/Kelvar" request came in. d) 1.35mm HDX Tour/ 1.30mm Velocity. Getting closer but 1.30mm Velocity is the weak link and not available in 1.35mm in the US. I went through string combos left and right. Nothing seemed to work. There are very few strings that aren't poly that last more than 10 hours for him even in 1.35mm or 1.40mm gauge like Prince Premiere Control. I couldn't seem to solve this puzzle

Kobayashi Maru? A problem with no solution. Perhaps. So I schooled of James T. Kirk's putt and cheated. How? with Isospeed Cream and Yonex Poly Tour Air crosses. Why those two strings? Because they aren't true "polys". The are elastomer infused polys, and perhaps he wouldn't feel the poly in them. So what is elastomer? A fancy name for rubber.


Eureka Moment: When he told me he liked the Touch Tonic /YPTA that was my big break. While gut/poly works for many players including myself for a long time, it didn't work for more than 10-12 hours for a heavy string-breaker even using YPTA or Cream and it's an expensive setup.

Next issue: Pricing: Babolat Touch Tonic 1.35mm is $36 a pack. Yonex Poly Tour Air is $15 a pack. Isospeed Cream is $7 a pack. Naturally, he liked the YPTA more. :( Per pack that's $25.50 for a Gut/YPTA setup that lasting him 12 hours max. With labor that's $40.5 a frame for a normal client. He isn't a normal client. He's my best client. My most frequent customer. Even if I get Klip Legend at $30 a pack or Babolt Touch Tonic at $26 a pack, it still expensive. Even with Cream at $7 a pack or YPTA crosses off of reels with the crosses at $2.50 each, the strings are $15.50 a frame. $30.50 per frame strung and he breaks two a month min.

My solution: Enter Tecnifibre and their poly infused multis of HDX Tour replaced by HDMX and now their new string Triax. HDX Tour. It's got a natural color it comes in 1.35mm but it never came in a reel and it was replaced by HDMX. It did come in 20 pack boxes and I bought four boxes of it. HDMX comes in 1.35mm and it comes in reels which is great for crosses if you hate tosses 3.5' of string in the trash from a half pack. It only comes in day-glow yellow, but hope it will come in a natural color soon. The only way to make these setups affordable is through reels when the strings are on sale. I got the price of the strings down to slightly less than $9 a frame. ( $6.50 for the mains and $2.50 for the crosses)

1.35mm HDX Tour or 1.35mm HDMX, or 1.33mm/1.38mm Triax in the mains with YPTA or Cream crosses. He's playtesting three Ai98s with YPTA crosses all strung at 54M/52X with those three Tecnifibre Strings in the mains. He's picking on of those soon. If he picks HDX Tour, he'll have about 5 years worth of HDX Tour. Hopefully, by then HDMX will be available in natural. There are very few strings on the market like Tecnifibre multi/poly fusions, of Triax and HDMX. NXT Control is one, but it doesn't come in 1.35mm reels that I have found. The combo of two different fused strings is a solution I have found that he is happy with. He never cared if the main string was gut or a Tecnifibre option and he has no issue generating spin and neither string hurt his elbow. He is now going to see if he has a preference for mains.

For a cheaper solution for anyone with TE, Prince Premiere Control / Isospeed Cream might work for you, but PPC isn't as durable as the Tecnifibre poly infused multis

Having hit with Wilson Natural Gut (the made in France version) / Head Hawk for years in previous frames, it is a great setup and lasted a long time. I've used 1.30mm Lux and 1.35mm Babolat Touch Tonic gut mains in my own frames with Wilson Revolve, Tier One Ghostwire, YPTA, Cream, and Head Hawk crosses. One poster asked why not just use Gut/Poly if he breaks in 12 hours? Cost and performance. The performance of these Tecnifibre poly infused multis with YPTA hits as soft as Gut/YPTA to my arm and to the guy who started me down this rabbit hole to begin with. Honestly, I don't feel the difference between the Natural Gut /YPTA vs HDMX or HDX Tour /YPTA. I could hit with either setup, as can the 4.5 player with the elbow pain. The player doesn't notice any remarkable benefit of the Natural Gut over the Tecnifibre options.

Something to consider: Perhaps I could see how he feels if I swap the setup to put YPTA in the mains and move the Tecnifibre strings in the crosses. I've already broken the no-poly rule, but then again are YTPA and Cream really polys or simply half polys? I will get there, but for now, I have a solution.

Final Thoughts: Plenty of people swear by Gut/Poly, and I have no doubt that is the best setup for many players. But for the money, the Tecnifibre/YPTA combos do amazingly well, particularly if you have a sensitive elbow. In 10+ years of stringing, this was the most challenging request I have had. Not rocket science like one guy wrote, but also not an easy riddle with all the limitations and the frequency of string breakage. I read so many posts from new posters asking about string setups and many mention they are using poly strings even with elbow pain, whether it in the mains or as a cross. Just hope these type players realize there are options other than traditional polys that offer elbow comfort. I'm not getting into the issue of low-level players using poly. That's a different subject entirely. Hope others with TE or elbow injuries find this information useful. Not a perfect solution and I am sure there are better ones out. If you have something you know works for a player that breaks strings this quickly, please share the setup.
How does YPTA compare with Cream?
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
@1H-Backhand This is the text message he sent me when I asked what the specific injury diagnosis was. "Torn common insertion of the flexor tendon on the medial epicondyle. Golfer's elbow is inflammation of this location. I went past inflammation and tore it." I asked him if it hurts during and after he hits and the reply was "It doesn’t hurt when I hit groundstrokes and only gets a little sore if I overdo it. If I hit a serve, at any speed, I feel it and it does hurt after." He was fine for two years with Hyper G 1.30/ Head Hawk 1.25mm breaking it like clockwork..2 or 3 frames a month. Then this singles ladder started and out of the blue, he told me his elbow was hurt.

@Injured Again @gutfeeling I think traditional polys are off the table for him for now. He isn't playing any league or ladder matches, but rather just hitting with his two sons. I keep putting UC in my cart and taking it out. Something about it makes me not want to hit with it. Perhaps it is because my frames are already day-glow yellow. That's a lot of day-glow yellows. I think his torn tendon will keep him away from poly long after the surgery and when he starts hitting again.
@PigPen I honestly can't tell much difference between Cream and YPTA as a cross or as a main. Some people seem to find Cream a bit stiffer, but my elbow doesn't feel it. I've used Cream Mains / HDX Tour crosses and HDMX mains /YPTA crosses. I think HDMX/ Cream would hit just as nice and would be easier on the eyes. I got about 16 hours out of the Cream Mains/ HDX Tour Crosses before breaking the crosses.

Post-surgery he will have some choices to make. I personally think an 18x20 frame 59 to 63 RDC flex would suit him better long run, while cutting down his stringing cost and give him more string options.
 

Jster

Professional
suggested vaccines for serious elbow issue with less prone to breakage

suggested solution : Keep the mains and crosses at the same or similar thickness (2mm difference max) [ Let your imagination goes wild]
The thicker strings are more prone to be saw by the thinner string regardless whether they are mains or crosses

I tried stringing main : Black venom rough (1.25mm) /cross : hyper G (1.05) for a player before.The black venom rough will and always be the one that snapped first after (12-14 hours). Upon inspection, hyper G saw it like hot knife through the butter. Hyper G remained intact. LOL

i reversed the setup and the BVR still broke first.

My thoughts of your eureka moment combined with suggested solution > Mains : Tonic 15L 54lbs, crosses : Wilson..... sensation 15L 50lbs (lets call this altered eureka)
I recommend stringing the Sensation 15L at a lower tension as the tension maintenance is much better than YPTA. The setup should last longer as the crosses are not sawing through the mains as aggressive as YPTA.

If your client is ok with altered eureka setup, do consider switching to klip legend NG 15L (1.35mm) from Tonic 15L.

With Tonic 15L around, the durability is unknown, it is like lottery. One day you might be getting 1.31mm then the other day might be 1.34mm.
The suspense before you open the packet will kill you, then your customer.


Suggested solution Z : last last last resort. ( free stringing at the first trial) Alu power 1.15mm ( 48/46) , taking reference from 54/52 <"He's playtesting three Ai98s with YPTA crosses all strung at 54M/52X with those three Tecnifibre Strings in the mains "> This "LOL" gauge is ridculously soft, "a tad softer" from TW 's description is an understatement , maybe they are using cranks thats why. ha
 

TypeRx

Semi-Pro
You should experiment a bit with Ashaway Monogut ZX Pro full bed. It is an inherently powerful string that you can't tension ultra high (I think 52-55 lbs. is as high as I would go but the mfg says up to 60 lbs), but it is OH SO comfy and provides spin comparable to the best round polys. Not 100% sure it would make it 10 hours of play if this guy breaks just about everything else in that time frame but worth a shot. I would tension it at 3-5 lbs. higher than an equivalent poly.

Problems with Monogut ZX Pro is that is isn't cheap (but not ridiculous either), can be finicky to string and tie off, will experience noticeable tension drop if not pre-stretched, generates an uncharacteristic noise, and that it is hard to pair with other strings as it will saw through just about anything (including Kevlar). Pros are that it is very slick, doesn't notch at all unless crossed with itself, can be reused over and over (I've retensioned the same run >100 hours!!), and has inherent power kind of similar to NG with the spin potential of smooth poly.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
@Jester thank you for the thoughtful suggestions. You're clearly a more experienced stringer than me. I know Touch Tonic is a gamble with its variable thickness. It was just the cheapest gut I could get at the time. From my experience, gut is durable so that was my goal with thicker gut mains.

I never tried 1.35PPC crosses, but I could use 1.35 PPC to check the box of "2mm max difference " with 1:35 HDMX or 1.33 Triax instead of 1.35mm Sensation.

I was simply trying to use the softest strings I could that lasted him longer.
Another option to comply with the .02mm difference is HDMX or HDX TOUR 1.30mm/Cream 1.28mm.

He seems ok with Triax 1.33mm / YPTA from a comfort level, and the price point of $22 a strung frame. I dropped my fee $2 a frame just because he gives me a lot of business. Not much but it's $66 for 3 frames instead of $72.

A torn golfers elbow tendon isn't something strings can help. That wasn't my goal. Trying to get him through a year of hitting with his son was the goal. He knows he needs surgery and he will get it.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
No interest in Monogut ZX or ZX Pro. Tried the 16g version twice. Completely unimpressed. Had a 5.0 try it and he had me cut it out within days. I don't like mushrooms, blue, feta, or cottage cheese either. :sick: Just a few things nobody will convince me to try again.
 
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TypeRx

Semi-Pro
No interest in Monogut ZX or ZX Pro. Tried the 16g version twice. Completely unimpressed. Had a 5.0 try it and he had me cut it out within days. I don't like mushrooms, blue, feta, or cottage cheese either. :sick: Just a few things nobody will convince me to try again.
I get it...just a couple points. ZX and ZX Pro are different gauges, as you know. So, they may perform considerably different. The other point is that you aren't stringing for you...its for someone else. At the same time, it is finicky string that certainly isn't for everyone/most.
 

emhtennis

Semi-Pro
No interest in Monogut ZX or ZX Pro. Tried the 16g version twice. Completely unimpressed. Had a 5.0 try it and he had me cut it out within days. I don't like mushrooms, blue, feta, or cottage cheese either. :sick: Just a few things nobody will convince me to try again.
I love all 4 of those foods [emoji39].

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
I love all 4 of those foods [emoji39].

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
You can all of mine. [emoji870][emoji28]

I get it...just a couple points. ZX and ZX Pro are different gauges, as you know. So, they may perform considerably different. The other point is that you aren't stringing for you...its for someone else. At the same time, it is finicky string that certainly isn't for everyone/most.
High drama strings aren't anything a stringer wants to deal with. [emoji28]
 

Conrads

Rookie
interesting topic. how long has he been playing with poly to be only mid 40s and have such a severe injury? just wondering i am same age but have never used poly as a regular string
setup. Is it the usage of poly that caused the injury?
 

Jster

Professional
@Jester thank you for the thoughtful suggestions. You're clearly a more experienced stringer than me. I know Touch Tonic is a gamble with its variable thickness. It was just the cheapest gut I could get at the time. From my experience, gut is durable so that was my goal with thicker gut mains.

I never tried 1.35PPC crosses, but I could use 1.35 PPC to check the box of "2mm max difference " with 1:35 HDMX or 1.33 Triax instead of 1.35mm Sensation.

I was simply trying to use the softest strings I could that lasted him longer.
Another option to comply with the .02mm difference is HDMX or HDX TOUR 1.30mm/Cream 1.28mm.

He seems ok with Triax 1.33mm / YPTA from a comfort level, and the price point of $22 a strung frame. I dropped my fee $2 a frame just because he gives me a lot of business. Not much but it's $66 for 3 frames instead of $72.

A torn golfers elbow tendon isn't something strings can help. That wasn't my goal. Trying to get him through a year of hitting with his son was the goal. He knows he needs surgery and he will get it.
you are wrong, sir. You are more experienced than me (me : only7 years of stringing experience)
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
interesting topic. how long has he been playing with poly to be only mid 40s and have such a severe injury? just wondering i am same age but have never used poly as a regular string
setup. Is it the usage of poly that caused the injury?
He's been using poly strings for at least 10 years. Never had any elbow issues at all until this winter. He had been using the same string setup for at least 2 full years without any issue. Think he was a 5.0 when I met him.

But this is injury that happened this winter. The injury is torn tendon (Golfer's Elbow ). I'll ask him more tomorrow.
 

AceyMan

Rookie
before reading the rest of the thread I thought ...

HDMX 1.35 mains / PPC 1.35 crosses (Multifeel 1.35 as an alternate cross).

You'd said "no poly, " so I was excluding poly crosses, but I have a reel of YPTA specifically for softie crosses.

Did I graduate Starfleet Academy?

/Acey
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
TRIAX mains PSG crosses Clash 100 until he heals.

Also, you are right - there is no winning. Age is the only one winning. He has to compromise on the side of health or he loses even more. Now it's his elbow, next it will be his wrist and shoulder. He must compromise. I bought a Clash because my shoulder and elbow are showing their age.
 

Conrads

Rookie
He's been using poly strings for at least 10 years. Never had any elbow issues at all until this winter. He had been using the same string setup for at least 2 full years without any issue. Think he was a 5.0 when I met him.

But this is injury that happened this winter. The injury is torn tendon (Golfer's Elbow ). I'll ask him more tomorrow.
wondering if its due to technique or something else? i recently tried the vct 1.30mm and while it was soft i did feel some mild discomfort in my wrist using it
so i cut it out, dont get any pains using syn gut at moderate tensions so i stick with it.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
before reading the rest of the thread I thought ...HDMX 1.35 mains / PPC 1.35 crosses (Multifeel 1.35 as an alternate cross).
You'd said "no poly, " so I was excluding poly crosses, but I have a reel of YPTA specifically for softie crosses.

Did I graduate Starfleet Academy?

/Acey
You did. :) YPTA feels incredibly soft.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
wondering if its due to technique or something else? i recently tried the vct 1.30mm and while it was soft i did feel some mild discomfort in my wrist using it
so i cut it out, dont get any pains using syn gut at moderate tensions so i stick with it.
The player in question as played tennis for 30+ years as a young junior with sound coaching and training that got him to college with a scholarship and has been bumped to 5.0 several times, so I don't think anyone who sees him play would think technique is the culprit. He has played for years with the same frame and strings/tension without any issue then this winter, the injury happened. This seems to be a case of overuse playing too many matches during a singles ladder of 4.5/5.0 players, making a bad choice to play through pain. A 4.5 buddy of mine got Golfer's Elbow from lifting weights, specifically curls. He said he remembers the injury vividly. He quit tennis over the injury. My ortho doc buddy says Stem Cell treatment works well with Golfer's Elbow but a torn tendon requires surgery.


TRIAX mains PSG crosses Clash 100 until he heals.

Also, you are right - there is no winning. Age is the only one winning. He has to compromise on the side of health or he loses even more. Now it's his elbow, next it will be his wrist and shoulder. He must compromise. I bought a Clash because my shoulder and elbow are showing their age.
The healing isn't going to happen until he has surgery. Per his doctor, he can't make the tear any worse. The tendon is torn already. The Ai 98 isn't a particularly stiff frame with an RDC of 63, but yes, there are more flexible frames.
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/reviews/YAI98/YAI98review.html. RDC of 63 wouldn't be considered stiff by most players, but nope it isn't a Clash 98.

The current Clash line has no 18x19 or 18x20 patterns and that is what he probably needs since he was breaking 1.30mm Hyper G mains in 12 hours like clockwork for two years. The Yonex VCore Pro 97 HD 18x20 would be a great demo for him post-surgery and suggested he demo it. Like other posters on here suggested, I believe he needs an 18 x 19/20 pattern frame which would help with the string breakage. The Pro97 HD is softer than his Ai98s with an RDC of 59. It will likely be on sale by the time he has surgery.

 

WYK

Hall of Fame
The player in question as played tennis for 30+ years as a young junior with sound coaching and training that got him to college with a scholarship and has been bumped to 5.0 several times, so I don't think anyone who sees him play would think technique is the culprit. He has played for years with the same frame and strings/tension without any issue then this winter, the injury happened. This seems to be a case of overuse playing too many matches during a singles ladder of 4.5/5.0 players, making a bad choice to play through pain. A 4.5 buddy of mine got Golfer's Elbow from lifting weights, specifically curls. He said he remembers the injury vividly. He quit tennis over the injury. My ortho doc buddy says Stem Cell treatment works well with Golfer's Elbow but a torn tendon requires surgery.




The healing isn't going to happen until he has surgery. Per his doctor, he can't make the tear any worse. The tendon is torn already. The Ai 98 isn't a particularly stiff frame with an RDC of 63, but yes, there are more flexible frames.
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/reviews/YAI98/YAI98review.html. RDC of 63 wouldn't be considered stiff by most players, but nope it isn't a Clash 98.

The current Clash line has no 18x19 or 18x20 patterns and that is what he probably needs since he was breaking 1.30mm Hyper G mains in 12 hours like clockwork for two years. The Yonex VCore Pro 97 HD 18x20 would be a great demo for him post-surgery and suggested he demo it. Like other posters on here suggested, I believe he needs an 18 x 19/20 pattern frame which would help with the string breakage. The Pro97 HD is softer than his Ai98s with an RDC of 59. It will likely be on sale by the time he has surgery.

My msg was really mostly that he needs to realize he is not 30. 'He's 40, which is much closer to 50 than 30', as my Doc likes to say. I'll rephrase my post though:

16X19 18X19 18X20 means nothing. A racquet that has already destroyed his arm seems disingeneous to defend. He isn't winning millions based upon his string pattern or racquet sponsorship. What he is doing is ruining his health the route he is going, and paying out of his pocket to do so. He needs to find another way. Not just an 'ever so slightly different way'. He needs to re-examine his hobby before it makes the choice for him. I mean, he has already done the damage and it requires surgery to repair. So his health is already ruined, and your original post shows he likely knows why. At least you're looking for some advice.
If he isn't willing to spend the extra amount on strings and maybe a racquet swap or more open string pattern to save his arm, then it's all on him.
He needs to compromise more than he is willing. This makes him human, though.
 

emhtennis

Semi-Pro
I'll throw my 2 cents in and say that just because he's played at a high level for a long time doesn't mean his technique wasn't the issue.

Agassi and del Potro had wrist surgery. Guga and Murray had hip surgery, etc etc.

As his stringer I think you are doing a great job trying to find one third of the solution. With technique and the racket itself being the other 2/3.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
 

Conrads

Rookie
The player in question as played tennis for 30+ years as a young junior with sound coaching and training that got him to college with a scholarship and has been bumped to 5.0 several times, so I don't think anyone who sees him play would think technique is the culprit. He has played for years with the same frame and strings/tension without any issue then this winter, the injury happened. This seems to be a case of overuse playing too many matches during a singles ladder of 4.5/5.0 players, making a bad choice to play through pain. A 4.5 buddy of mine got Golfer's Elbow from lifting weights, specifically curls. He said he remembers the injury vividly. He quit tennis over the injury. My ortho doc buddy says Stem Cell treatment works well with Golfer's Elbow but a torn tendon requires surgery.




The healing isn't going to happen until he has surgery. Per his doctor, he can't make the tear any worse. The tendon is torn already. The Ai 98 isn't a particularly stiff frame with an RDC of 63, but yes, there are more flexible frames.
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/reviews/YAI98/YAI98review.html. RDC of 63 wouldn't be considered stiff by most players, but nope it isn't a Clash 98.

The current Clash line has no 18x19 or 18x20 patterns and that is what he probably needs since he was breaking 1.30mm Hyper G mains in 12 hours like clockwork for two years. The Yonex VCore Pro 97 HD 18x20 would be a great demo for him post-surgery and suggested he demo it. Like other posters on here suggested, I believe he needs an 18 x 19/20 pattern frame which would help with the string breakage. The Pro97 HD is softer than his Ai98s with an RDC of 59. It will likely be on sale by the time he has surgery.

not sure if i believe the over use thing. I am 46 and have sometimes played 20 hours of tennis per week and worse i got was maybe a sore shoulder. this includes teaching/hitting/matches at 4.5+ level. was he playing 7 matches per week? maybe we should learn that overuse at 40+ with poly strings may be a bad thing. I play with racquets all over 65 RA but use just a syn gut at 55-60 lb tensions. Anyway hope his surgery goes well and is able to return to the game soon.
 

SteveI

Legend
Great work trying to help this player as much as you can with stringing options. As with a car....it is not the age of the car..it is the milage. My wife and I used to both work in the IT business and logged many miles on the road. Our cars looked brand new when we turned them in for new ones every 3 years..but they had 120,000 miles on them. Things wear out...
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
@emhtennis @Conrads @WKY @SteveI

He's looking at the VCore Pro 97HD 18x20 per my suggestion. Most teaching pros like @1H-Backhand think a tighter pattern with softer strings and lower flex would be a better choice. @WYK I don't think he needs a more open pattern at all. That's part of the problem of frequent string breakage. A lower flex frame with more strings that are softer will last longer and provide less shock to his arm

I sent him the TW review and suggest he demo it and let me string it. Until he has surgery, his tendon will remain torn.

A reasonable person would likely rule out technique watching him play. His he a pro? Hardly, but even if it were is his technique, his technique is more sound than 99.9% of the players I see hitting, including all the 3.0/3.5/4.0 hacks that remain injury-free. Speculation has to what the cause is just that... speculation. The only change for him was the frequency of play. One variable changed...frequency of play. As a math nerd, when one variable changes and the others stay the same, that makes the overuse the likely cause, but who knows the truth. Did he make it worse it in the gym like my other 4.5 buddy? He played 30+ singles matches in a short span in 4.5/5.0 singles ladder and that's not his normal routine.

In early April through mid-June during the early shutdown by Covid-19, I was playing tennis seven to nine times a week and not flying. That's double to triple my normal frequency of play. I haven't had TE since 2010 and for the first time in ten years, I felt my elbow getting sore. It was overuse. I have been using the same strings for eight years. The same frame for 3+ years. The only change was the frequency of play. I was hitting with the same small group of players and had not changed any parts of my game. The only change was the frequency of play. I changed strings and played less and my elbow got better. I simply can't hit 7 to 9 times a week with my technique. The only other time I got TE was in 1991 and had to stop for nine months.

How can he get better? Surgery, then recovery, PT, a change of frames with soft strings. Sure he can have his 5.0 Teaching Pro friends look at his technique and offer their input. That's another great idea.

And yes, like @WYK mentioned he's in his 40's so while he could hit like that in his 20s and 30s it wasn't wise in his 40s. @WYK he knows he made a bad choice by continuing to play. I am not defending his continued use of the Ai98, but rather stated it simply isn't considered a very stiff frame by reasonable people. An RDC of 63 and poly strings fo someone who has never experienced any TE and who breaks 1.30mm Poly in 12 hours is a completely reasonable choice for a player of his skill level. When he felt pain, he kept playing that was a mistake. He knows he made a mistake and is paying the price. No point to berate anyone for making a bad decision and hope others reading this thread will realize what playing through pain can do. He isn't the first player I have seen do this, and I doubt he will be the last. When I feel pain, I make a change. I don't like pain or pain medicine. (n) If the pain continues, I make more changes, to the point of not playing tennis for months. If the pain comes back after months of not playing, stop again, and make more changes. I get paid to fly jets, not play tennis and I know I'm not 30. If I injured my back, arms, eyes, legs that stops my ability to fly.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
If it were me, I would stop playing immediately, have surgery, and have my son hit with a teaching pro, but that's not my call.
 

SteveI

Legend
If it were me, I would stop playing immediately, have surgery, and have my son hit with a teaching pro, but that's not my call.
I had a frm rule for my weekend warrior days....as you stated... I have to be "insert professional" to make money and be a life partner to my wife and dad to my kids. Getting a disability from a recreational sport was not in cards for me. I was a a sole proprietor many years in my IT days... No sick days...I don't deliver a service or product..no money coming my way and loss of customer base. End of story...
 

djNEiGht

Hall of Fame
How many frames does the player usually take w them?

At a certain point, breaking strings will just continue and be a part of their daily expense.

Just thinking about injury bums me out.
 

AceyMan

Rookie
Since your buddy is now looking at alternate frames, I'll mention the Prince Phantom 100X 18x20 as a possibility. Same RA (59) as the Yonex VCP HD and nearly the same static weight and swing weight (sans mods). And most would agree it checks the "player's stick" checkbox.

/AC
 

what_army

Rookie
Seems like hyper g has claimed yet another victim, I hope your friend can recover and get back to playing his best tennis.

But aren’t you overcomplicating this issue by not putting him on 15L syngut fb? Cost-wise it will only amount to $1 + whatever you charge for labour per restringing. Of course he’ll break more often but I doubt he breaks it in under 3-4h so the frequency of restringing will offset against the cost of strings and he’ll be pain-free and happy.
 
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FIRETennis

Semi-Pro
Great thread.
If in that situation I would strongly consider changing frames.
Blade v7 18x20, Phantom 100x 18x20 or Yonex VCP HD are perfect suggestions to demo.
Full bed of Babolat VS Tonic?
 
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g4driver

Hall of Fame
@what_army

Thanks for the well wishes and suggestion. IMO his injury would most likely happened with any poly, not just Hyoer G. If I have put VCT in his frame, and he kept playing through pain, the tendon would likely still torn. Pain = stop.

On the pricing don't think I am over complicating it. My labor rate is a key variable. Let's do the math.

$1 SG + $12 labor ( dropped the price from $15 just for him) = $13 per frame x 2 frames to get him to 10 hours = $26
vs $22 for one frame of Triax/HDMX / HDX Tour /YPTA that gets him to 10 hours.

I string from home and raised my prices two years ago as I needed fewer clients and $12 per frame got me more business than I could handle. If my labor rate were $10 a frame, your $1 a frame syn gut would work, but I will stop stringing for clients for $10 a frame. That juice ain't worth the squeeze. My time is much more valuable to me than $10/12 a frame so my price is $15 a frame and have enough clients to support that pricing model.

If he broke 1.30mm Hyoer G in 12 hours, highly doubt he won't get 5 hours from 1.35mm syn gut. He said he broke 1.40mm PPC rather quickly.. maybe 6-8 hours. I tried a full bed of 1.40 PPC after he broke the 1.40mm PPC / 1.30mm velocity.

Triax/HDMX / HDX Tour will outlast a 1.35 Syn Gut or 1.35 PPC by a few hours. My theory is 1.30mm HDX TOUR/1.28mm Cream will break faster than 1.35mm HDX Tour /1.28mm Cream. Basically I believe the thicker HDX Tour main will last longer than thinner HDX Tour main within 2mm of the cross string diameter (Isospeed Cream 1.28mm)

@Jester this is something I would like to see him do as a free play test for me. I think the thicker mains will offset the sawing of by the thinner cross if you use a soft cross like I am doing. I understand thinner crosses saw through main strings but when I look at. HDX TOUR 1.35mm / YPTA 1.25mm in my own frame when I cut it out, the sawing of the mains wasn't as pronounced as suspected. The only way to know for sure his to record how many hours he gets on each setup. Cream/YPTA aren't regular poly strings and you can feel the rubber in these strings as your string them.

FYI: I haven't charged any labor from the first moment he told me he had an injury and he left Hyoer G/Head Hawk. The first time I charged labor was when he picked the Tecnfibre Strings / YPTA setups. So yep, that is a lot of free labor trying to help him find something to get him to 10 hours and not hurt.
 
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SteveI

Legend
@what_army

Thanks for the well wishes and suggestion. IMO his injury would most likely happened with any poly, not just Hyoer G. If I have put VCT in his frame, and he kept playing through pain, the tendon would likely still torn. Pain = stop.

On the pricing don't think I am over complicating it. My labor rate is a key variable. Let's do the math.

$1 SG + $12 labor ( dropped the price from $15 just for him) = $13 per frame x 2 frames to get him to 10 hours = $26
vs $22 for one frame of Triax/HDMX / HDX Tour /YPTA that gets him to 10 hours.

I string from home and raised my prices two years ago as I needed fewer clients and $12 per frame got me more business than I could handle. If my labor rate were $10 a frame, your $1 a frame syn gut would work, but I will stop stringing for clients for $10 a frame. That juice ain't worth the squeeze. My time is much more valuable to me than $10/12 a frame so my price is $15 a frame and have enough clients to support that pricing model.

If he broke 1.30mm Hyoer G in 12 hours, highly doubt he won't get 5 hours from 1.35mm syn gut. He said he broke 1.40mm PPC rather quickly.. maybe 6-8 hours. I tried a full bed of 1.40 PPC after he broke the 1.40mm PPC / 1.30mm velocity.

Triax/HDMX / HDX Tour will outlast a 1.35 Syn Gut or 1.35 PPC by a few hours. My theory is 1.30mm HDX TOUR/1.28mm Cream will break faster than 1.35mm HDX Tour /1.28mm Cream. Basically I believe the thicker HDX Tour main will last longer than thinner HDX Tour main within 2mm of the cross string diameter (Isospeed Cream 1.28mm)

@Jester this is something I would like to see him do as a free play test for me. I think the thicker mains will offset the sawing of by the thinner cross if you use a soft cross like I am doing. I understand thinner crosses saw through main strings but when I look at. HDX TOUR 1.35mm / YPTA 1.25mm in my own frame when I cut it out, the sawing of the mains wasn't as pronounced as suspected. The only way to know for sure his to record how many hours he gets on each setup. Cream/YPTA aren't regular poly strings and you can feel the rubber in these strings as your string them.

FYI: I haven't charged any labor from the first moment he told me he had an injury and he left Hyoer G/Head Hawk. The first time I charged labor was when he picked the Tecnfibre Strings / YPTA setups. So yep, that is a lot of free labor trying to help him find something to get him to 10 hours and not hurt.
You are my new hero on Talk Tennis. There are so many Talk Tennis folks doing great work to support and grow the game. Keep up the good work!
 

Automatix

Hall of Fame
FYI: I haven't charged any labor from the first moment he told me he had an injury and he left Hyoer G/Head Hawk. The first time I charged labor was when he picked the Tecnfibre Strings / YPTA setups. So yep, that is a lot of free labor trying to help him find something to get him to 10 hours and not hurt.
I'm sure good karma will come back to you. (y)

On a different note. You acknowledge the qualities of elastomer incorporated strings such as Isospeed Cream and Yonex Polytour Air. There are other options on the market though like Babolat Origin or Luxilon Element. Any particular reason you didn't venture into testing Element but did experiment with Origin? Obviously you try to be up to date with strings (e.g. testing Triax as soon as it came out).
 
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g4driver

Hall of Fame
I have two nearly full reels of 1.30mm Origin remaining and have hit with it. I didn't like it a full bed or as a cross. Origin is extremely muted and I hate that feeling in a string. It was also extremely expensive at $22 a pack and by the reel it was MSRP north of $300. It is also discontinued. YPTA feels softer and nicer to me personally so that is why I used it and Isospeed Cream.

As far as Element goes, I have never hit with it. I also don't know if it has elastomer and thought Cream or YPTA might work. I can put YPTA In his crosses for $2.5 a frame and Cream for $3.5 and frame. I doubt Element can touch those price points.
 
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