Kobayashi Maru String Scenario

Automatix

Hall of Fame
I have two nearly full reels of 1.30mm Origin remaining and have hit with it. I didn't like it a full bed or as a cross. Origin is extremely muted and I hate that feeling in a string. It was also extremely expensive at $22 a pack and by the reel it was MSRP north of $300. It is also discontinued. YPTA feels softer and nicer to me personally so that is why I used it and Isospeed Cream.

As far as Element goes, I have never hit with it. I also don't know if it has elastomer and thought Cream or YPTA might work. I can put YPTA In his crosses for $2.5 a frame and Cream for $3.5 and frame. I doubt Element can touch those price points.
Gotcha, at that price it's pretty hard to beat. Didn't find the info via search but did you ever try Air and Cream as a full stringbed or had any of your poly using clients do so?
 

1HBHfanatic

Legend
i used to love this frame. ultimately it beat my arm up too much.
-you are not alone on that issue
-i've heard a few times already, of people who have had arm issue after playing with these sticks (ezones),,
-i guess even though at lower levels 3.0-3.5s the vibration is not bad ??!!, at the higher levels (4.0+), the light feel of the racquet does nothing good for the player
-the ezone-tour coming out, "should be" the answer to the riddle!!?!!

-have you considered adding silicone to the handles?? recently been injection some on my sticks
 

FIRETennis

Semi-Pro
Next issue: Pricing: Babolat Touch Tonic 1.35mm is $36 a pack. Yonex Poly Tour Air is $15 a pack. Isospeed Cream is $7 a pack. Naturally, he liked the YPTA more. :( Per pack that's $25.50 for a Gut/YPTA setup that lasting him 12 hours max. With labor that's $40.5 a frame for a normal client. He isn't a normal client. He's my best client. My most frequent customer. Even if I get Klip Legend at $30 a pack or Babolt Touch Tonic at $26 a pack, it still expensive. Even with Cream at $7 a pack or YPTA crosses off of reels with the crosses at $2.50 each, the strings are $15.50 a frame. $30.50 per frame strung and he breaks two a month min.
With all due respect to the client, but as a doctor and a candidate for elbow surgery, the $10-$15 or whatever more per frame should be the least of his worries. That's an extra $30 per month more than a multi/syn setup is hugely worth it imo, that's $360 a year. That's 3-4h with a good physio. Has your client ever skied or played golf? Tennis is very cheap compared to other sports....
 

Hansen

Semi-Pro
i've heard a few times already, of people who have had arm issue after playing with these sticks (ezones),,
it depends on which ezone exactly. i have ge problems also and the ezone dr 98 for example is one of the most comfortable frames on the market, in my opinion; more comfortable than a phantom 100 18x20 or wilson blade v7. and the ai 98 is even softer. so only because he got an injury using hyper g in 1.30 / hawk doesn´t mean that the racquet was the problem (but it could have beeen).
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
With all due respect to the client, but as a doctor and a candidate for elbow surgery, the $10-$15 or whatever more per frame should be the least of his worries. That's an extra $30 per month more than a multi/syn setup is hugely worth it imo, that's $360 a year. That's 3-4h with a good physio. Has your client ever skied or played golf? Tennis is very cheap compared to other sports....
As a doctor, most people would consider him a pretty smart guy. He's also super-competitive if you can imagine and that is what got him in trouble IMO. Ever make a bad decision? I have more plenty in my lifetime. Did I know he was injured? Nope, and I doubt others knew it either. The guy has played tennis since he was a young kid. He's athletic and smart.

Money isn't the real issue. Some readers somehow think the whole issue is about money. It's not. It is a very small issue, but even doctors don't like paying $17.5 a frame if they can get the same soft results like he is getting from Triax or HDMX mains and YPTA crosses for $9. :) Think about a guy who broke Hyper G 1.30mm mains every 12 hours. Two frames per month getting strung even when he wasn't playing much. I live 15 mins from him. I am a pilot who normally doesn't work locally. I fly 12 to 14 days a month normally and I pick up frames and deliver to my clients in a small radius, like GrubHub and UberEats, so logistics were a factor in his stringing that most people don't consider. He has six Ai98 frames so always had four fresh ones.

Could he go to a local tennis shop owned by a friend for stringing? Sure. Do you think he would have asked for NG and a poly cross when he was playing in that ladder? I don't. I think he stuck with Hyper G/ Head Hawk because he liked it. If he went to my friend's store it would only cost him $20 a frame plus $17.5 for the strings, or $37.5 total. I supply for those strings for $9 a frame, and $21 per strung frame because he is my best client. He broke strings faster than any client I have. Did the price affect his decision to play with an injury? Not that I can see. Could he have left me and gone elsewhere? Yep, anytime he wanted. He didn't. He gives his business to both me and to my friend and 4.0 teammate owns a tennis local shop. I string his frames, and his son's frames are strung at my friend's shop. We both want my teammate to succeed in his tennis store. I send clients to him for frames, shoes, and stringing. I was stringing before we met and we strung at the same previous store owned by another guy. I just strung in the store Pro Bona for no salary to get the employee discount on items. It was a win/win for the owner and for me.

But no, Natural Gut isn't going to save the injured guy from surgery now. His decision to play after he injured his elbow is almost undoubtedly the reason he tore the tendon. The guy can generate more spin than most 4.5 players with the synthetic gut in his frames, so durability was the main factor for his stringing. He played 2+ years injury-free with Hyper G / Head Hawk in his Ai 98s, so I don't blame the frames or the strings for his injury. He isn't going to be recovered until he has surgery and when he does I recommended he try the Yonex Pro 97 HD with it's softer flex of 59 RDC and it's 18x20 pattern and he's open-minded to try it. I think he would like to stick with Yonex frames like many Yonex players tend to do. He'll likely need 4 frames so again, it isn't about money. He could have injured his elbow with Natural Gut once the injury was bad enough. I don't judge him for his decisions and hope others reading this might see what playing through an injury can do. Does he regret his decision to stop playing? I haven't asked him, but the answer seems pretty clear. He's enjoying time with his sons and will have surgery in May or June of 2021. When he comes back, I will have six sets of Klip Legend 1.35mm waiting for him. Hopefully, the price of the Yonex Pro 97 HD as dropped by then. If not, I am sure he can find some great used ones. and also demo some other 18x20 low flex frames.

For anyone who hasn't tried Triax/YPTA or HDMX/YPTA it is a very soft setup up that is affordable and lasts quite a while. Hope the greater explanation helps you understand the dynamics of his injury and why money isn't the real issue.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
it depends on which ezone exactly. i have ge problems also and the ezone dr 98 for example is one of the most comfortable frames on the market, in my opinion; more comfortable than a phantom 100 18x20 or wilson blade v7. and the ai 98 is even softer. so only because he got an injury using hyper g in 1.30 / hawk doesn´t mean that the racquet was the problem (but it could have beeen).

I don't think it was the frame or the string personally. He could have gotten that injury with VCT 1.30mm one of the softest polys out there. The Ai 98 is considered a fairly soft frame with an RDC of 63. That's certainly not stiff for a player who has never had a history of TE or shoulder issues in 30+ years of tennis
 

1HBHfanatic

Legend
it depends on which ezone exactly. i have ge problems also and the ezone dr 98 for example is one of the most comfortable frames on the market, in my opinion; more comfortable than a phantom 100 18x20 or wilson blade v7. and the ai 98 is even softer. so only because he got an injury using hyper g in 1.30 / hawk doesn´t mean that the racquet was the problem (but it could have beeen).
-not everyone i know/referring to, is using hyper-g!!
-but yes you do bring up a good point, the wrong string and tension can make things worse
-but its too curious of a situation that shortly after playing with the blue ezones and/or rather lighter models of the yonex sticks, people started feeling arm issue, something to look out for i guess??!!??
-i was also a fan of the older AI and DR models, good intial feel and power/spin
-but ever since the "lighter" SV and vcore, ai, dr, ezone yonex models came out, the arm issues started to pop up on the higher level players i know
-ive been using the vcore.pro models for almost 10 years now, and dont seem to come across these same issues/issues as with the lighter sticks
 

FIRETennis

Semi-Pro
Money isn't the real issue. Some readers somehow think the whole issue is about money. It's not. It is a very small issue, but even doctors don't like paying $17.5 a frame if they can get the same soft results like he is getting from Triax or HDMX mains and YPTA crosses for $9. :) Think about a guy who broke Hyper G 1.30mm mains every 12 hours. T
Retail price for a HDMX/YPTA hybrid on TW would be $15.50 strings only so $9 a frame for the strings is amazing deal you are giving him.
Retail price for Tonic/YPTA hybrid on TW would be $25.50 strings only, that's why I figured $10 a frame saved isn't really a deal breaker for the setup for someone with a lucrative profession, arm injury and a passion for tennis.
If the Triax/HDMX/YPTA setup works for him and is as soft as gut/poly, that's amazing and I'm sure lots here will want to try to see if it compares to the more expensive setups.
I guess the Kobayashi Maru is solved :)
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
Retail price for a HDMX/YPTA hybrid on TW would be $15.50 strings only so $9 a frame for the strings is amazing deal you are giving him.

Retail price for Tonic/YPTA hybrid on TW would be $25.50 strings only, that's why I figured $10 a frame saved isn't really a deal breaker for the setup for someone with a lucrative profession, arm injury and a passion for tennis.

If the Triax/HDMX/YPTA setup works for him and is as soft as gut/poly, that's amazing and I'm sure lots here will want to try to see if it compares to the more expensive setups.

I guess the Kobayashi Maru is solved :)
Think he is set for now. Here is a text exchange where I encouraged him to try the Yonex Pro 97 HD. One poster here suggested Klip Legend NG for $30 a pack so I need to look back and give him credit for that suggestion.



For guys like yourself and other 5.0 players, you will break the Triax or HDMX Mains before the YPTA dies. For a guy like myself, the gut / poly will last me longer has I don't hit like you or Will. In a PA, strings don't last very long even compared to other 16x19 frames due to those elongated grommets and super open pattern.

I truly do appreciate the feedback, suggestions and think those Tecnfibre strings play best in a hybrid with other smooth strings like GW, Tourna Black Zone, YPTA, and or Cream.

The last I want is a client getting hurt due to my suggestions. I feel like a string barista at times, and I am fortunate to have 4.5 and 5.0 guys who will play-test my concoctions then give me feedback. Win/Win.

Anything I suggest to a 4.5/5.0 for a play-test is free strings & labor, except NG. I just ask that they pay for the gut if they request it. I don't get many gut / poly play tests requests from anyone but the feedback is what I need. I have extremely understanding and loyal clients and they are much appreciated.

Likewise your input is greatly appreciated.
 

shadow01

Rookie
I just had to reload on some string so ordered a couple packs of triax and ptpa with that order. I’m going to try this setup as well. Not sure when I’ll get around to it, but will report back when I do!
 

Louis33

Rookie
If I was his stringer I would retry option a of your original post, but add babolat elastocross string savers alternating every other string around the sweet spot.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
If I was his stringer I would retry option a of your original post, but add babolat elastocross string savers alternating every other string around the sweet spot.
This a player who broke 1.30mm Hyoer G mains in 12 hours. I don't Babolat Elastocrosses would help on a 1.30mm multi cross compared to YPTA. I have those those two cross strings , Velocity and YPTA at the same price point, $2.50 a cross. I have Babolat EC's but don't feel they would help him.

YPTA with no elastocrossss does not break before 1.35 Triax, or 1.35 HDMX. 1.30mm Velocity breaks. It is a straight multi and the weak point in setup a PPC 1.40mm/1.30mm Velocity

He is happy with the solution I gave him. The OP gave me inputs from stringers, teaching pros and the idea of what he needs post surgery.
 

Louis33

Rookie
This a player who broke 1.30mm Hyoer G mains in 12 hours. I don't Babolat Elastocrosses would help on a 1.30mm multi cross compared to YPTA. I have those those two cross strings , Velocity and YPTA at the same price point, $2.50 a cross. I have Babolat EC's but don't feel they would help him.

YPTA with no elastocrossss does not break before 1.35 Triax, or 1.35 HDMX. 1.30mm Velocity breaks. It is a straight multi and the weak point in setup a PPC 1.40mm/1.30mm Velocity

He is happy with the solution I gave him. The OP gave me inputs from stringers, teaching pros and the idea of what he needs post surgery.
If your able to get YPTA at the same price point then sounds like it’s a better solution. In your original post for option a you stated he broke that in less than 8 hours which sounds like around the 7 hour mark. With elastocross I could see this extending the time at least 3-4 more hours making the durability close to his original setup.
 

Tonyl

New User
I tried several different polys with gut (main), Ultra Cable is the only cross that doesn't saw through gut first: it breaks first giving gut much longer life.
@g4driver When I was going through the worst of my wrist injury (TFCC injury) that started last November/December and lasted through the beginning of the pandemic, I happened to try Ultra Cable at that time. Impact harshness is a lot less than my normal Silver 7 Tour, and I would judge it to be more cushioned than Hyper-G. The Ultra Cable helped me play through a tournament even though my wrist was at its worst during that time, and I only ended up cutting it out at about 20 hours because it had lost tension, compounding that because it is such a thick string, it made the swingweight of my racquet heavier than I wanted. Most other strings notch through and break for me in the 10-12 hour range and at 20 hours the Ultra Cable still had many hours left in it. Very high spin capability but also a fairly high launch angle.

My experience was as a full bed - a hybrid would soften it even more. I know you said "no poly" but I think Ultra Cable's softness might make it an outside possibility, especially since your player is spin reliant.
 

shadow01

Rookie
I just had to reload on some string so ordered a couple packs of triax and ptpa with that order. I’m going to try this setup as well. Not sure when I’ll get around to it, but will report back when I do!
@g4driver my sets of Triax & YPTA came in and I will be stringing up a frame to try this setup out. What tension do you think makes sense - I am currently using VS /monogut zx pro @ 55lbs. I'm thinking to also use 55lbs for the Triax/YPTA - unless you have another suggestion.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
@g4driver my sets of Triax & YPTA came in and I will be stringing up a frame to try this setup out. What tension do you think makes sense - I am currently using VS /monogut zx pro @ 55lbs. I'm thinking to also use 55lbs for the Triax/YPTA - unless you have another suggestion.
I sting his frames at 54M/52X Yonex Ai 98. He gave me two more frames on Sat and said he can't tell a noticeable difference in the three frames with Triax/ HDMX / HDX Tour mains. I put HDMX / YPTA in the two frames he gave me.
 

shadow01

Rookie
I sting his frames at 54M/52X Yonex Ai 98. He gave me two more frames on Sat and said he can't tell a noticeable difference in the three frames with Triax/ HDMX / HDX Tour mains. I put HDMX / YPTA in the two frames he gave me.
so - I strung triax/ypta @55/55 on Thursday. When stringing the triax - it felt like any other multi, little coil memory, slightly gummy, etc. I wouldn’t think there is poly in it just by looking at the string or stringing it. The ypta felt like a poly stringing - it had coil memory, feels like poly in the hand, and stretches about the same as poly does when pulling tension. I was expecting a little more stretch since I am used to monogut zx pro and ypta has elastomers. I wouldn’t think it anything other than a poly just by looking at the string or stringing it.

2 days after stringing it (Saturday) I hit green dot balls with my son for 1.5 hours. The string bed felt stiffer than what I was used to and I was a little nervous about hitting regular balls, but no pain during or after the green ball hit. I hit regular balls with my regular hitting buddy today (Monday) for 1.25 hours. The string bed still felt a little stiff. Forehand had good pace and good spin. String bed had good snap back. Strings moved back to normal position (didn’t have to adjust them). I could feel some ball pocketing also, which was nice - but certainly not as much as my gut/zx setup. Backhands lacked some power but spin was fine (I think I was having an off backhand day actually). I think 55/55 is too tight - especially for the ypta. Thinking 55/52 might be better. Or 53/50. Launch angle was lower than gut/zx - in a good way.

But no pain with my golfers elbow during or after the hit. Hoping I also don’t get any next day pain either. And no visible wear on the strings either (from this amount of hitting - I usually start seeing some fray on the gut). So from that perspective- successful! With respect to tension maintenance - after 4 days and the 2 hits - racquettune says there was a 9.5% tension drop (58# -> 52.5#). I had to measure the string factors myself since they weren’t in the database.

playing again on Wednesday with someone else - not sure if we will just hit or play a set - but looking forward to keep trying out this setup as a more durable golfers elbow setup. Hoping to get a feel for serves and volleys as well.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
so - The ypta felt like a poly stringing - it had coil memory, feels like poly in the hand, and stretches about the same as poly does when pulling tension. I was expecting a little more stretch since I am used to monogut zx pro and ypta has elastomers. I wouldn’t think it anything other than a poly just by looking at the string or stringing it.
Curious what copolys are you comparing YPTA to when you string it? YPTA is a copoly with rubber (elastomer) so it is going to have coil memory just like Isopeed Cream. I have 20 copolys in stock and I can feel the rubber component in my fingers when I string both YPTA and Cream. They feel nothing like Lux Alu Power, Head Hawk, Yonex Poly Tour Pro, Lux 4G / 4G Soft, or Tier One Ghostwire. Head Hawk Touch is the closest in feel to my fingers for both Cream and YPTA, and I would bet Hawk Touch as rubber in it also.
 

shadow01

Rookie
Curious what copolys are you comparing YPTA to when you string it? YPTA is a copoly with rubber (elastomer) so it is going to have coil memory just like Isopeed Cream. I have 20 copolys in stock and I can feel the rubber component in my fingers when I string both YPTA and Cream. They feel nothing like Lux Alu Power, Head Hawk, Yonex Poly Tour Pro, Lux 4G / 4G Soft, or Tier One Ghostwire. Head Hawk Touch is the closest in feel to my fingers for both Cream and YPTA, and I would bet Hawk Touch as rubber in it also.
Hey - oh yeah - great point. First I should clarify that I'm not a pro stringer and only string for myself, family, and some friends. As such, I have tried and strung many strings, but definitely not experienced enough to make specific comments. In general - I relate coil memory with poly's (because i find it annoying - lol), and no coil memory with multi-'s / NG. I haven't tried Isospeed cream yet (but will - it's on my list). Thinking back to when I posted my thoughts, I was probably relating YPTA stringing experience to monogut - primarily because that is what I was looking to replace and also that is the one I was most hoping the similarity would be like. Apologies if that caused any confusion - but hopefully this additional background provides context to any readers.

As an update - no pain on the day after the hit either. So this could be something I switch to - which is exciting. I definitely need to dial in the right tensions though which might take a few string jobs to figure out. Looking forward to trying the setup again tomorrow.
 

shadow01

Rookie
so - I strung triax/ypta @55/55 on Thursday. When stringing the triax - it felt like any other multi, little coil memory, slightly gummy, etc. I wouldn’t think there is poly in it just by looking at the string or stringing it. The ypta felt like a poly stringing - it had coil memory, feels like poly in the hand, and stretches about the same as poly does when pulling tension. I was expecting a little more stretch since I am used to monogut zx pro and ypta has elastomers. I wouldn’t think it anything other than a poly just by looking at the string or stringing it.

2 days after stringing it (Saturday) I hit green dot balls with my son for 1.5 hours. The string bed felt stiffer than what I was used to and I was a little nervous about hitting regular balls, but no pain during or after the green ball hit. I hit regular balls with my regular hitting buddy today (Monday) for 1.25 hours. The string bed still felt a little stiff. Forehand had good pace and good spin. String bed had good snap back. Strings moved back to normal position (didn’t have to adjust them). I could feel some ball pocketing also, which was nice - but certainly not as much as my gut/zx setup. Backhands lacked some power but spin was fine (I think I was having an off backhand day actually). I think 55/55 is too tight - especially for the ypta. Thinking 55/52 might be better. Or 53/50. Launch angle was lower than gut/zx - in a good way.

But no pain with my golfers elbow during or after the hit. Hoping I also don’t get any next day pain either. And no visible wear on the strings either (from this amount of hitting - I usually start seeing some fray on the gut). So from that perspective- successful! With respect to tension maintenance - after 4 days and the 2 hits - racquettune says there was a 9.5% tension drop (58# -> 52.5#). I had to measure the string factors myself since they weren’t in the database.

playing again on Wednesday with someone else - not sure if we will just hit or play a set - but looking forward to keep trying out this setup as a more durable golfers elbow setup. Hoping to get a feel for serves and volleys as well.
@g4driver - thanks man. Just thanks. Played another 1.5 hours today. Strings felt plusher today and that stiffness feeling left for me. No pain with my GE either. I’ve been looking for a more durable setup that would work with my GE recovery plan - and your thread and experiments was timely for me! As an aside - racquettune says tension drop after today’s hit was less than a percent. So looks like It has stabilized now.
 

lucieisland

Semi-Pro
the only question that matters is:

what is the price of a new elbow? or a new arm.

if it costs more than natural gut, choose natural gut with a poly soft cross, even if it only lasts 6 hours, it will always cost less than a new elbow.
 

AceyMan

Rookie
what is the price of a new elbow? or a new arm.⁰
I must be reading too much C19 news, because I did not know they had these out yet :unsure: ¹.

Now I will throw y'all a curve ball and tell you that I'm sitting out now, three weeks so far, following a pretty hard hitting session with two new stringjobs ...

Both with natural gut mains (I split a set of Klip Legend 15L and put half in a PT 2.0 and the other in a Wilson Ultra Tour).

I've never had TE in my life, but that was the only thing that changed that day.

And yes, I am *truly* puzzled about this whole thing, but I think I was some faulty swing mechanics that were able to get my forearm tendons real mad in just a couple of hours.

(I am a swing for the fences kind of hitter; Theim, Wawinka, Shapo ... but not quite so good <obvi>.)

/Acey

¹—time to highly recommend The Accountant, with Ben Affleck (2016) which has a subplot on bionics <sorta-kinda>. Great movie.
⁰—plus, with the $USD on a downward curve against the , it's going to cost more now than last year for us po'folk in the States if the clinic/surgeon is overseas.
 
Last edited:

cortado

Rookie
Sounds like he should think about technique too. There's got to be a way for him to enjoy tennis without breaking the most durable strings within hours.
 
Anyone has experience with Luxilon Adrenaline? My friend who is a Diadem Rep. introduced me to a hybrid of Lux adrenaline 16L/Diadem Impulse 16 combo. It felt so so good. Great feel, excellent comfort, controllable medium power (no dead feel), decent spin potential and good pop. I tried lot of strings including Gut/poly but never felt this comfortable and happy with any combo. I know this may be a very rare hybrid and not sure which string contributing to the great feel. Never tried Adrenaline in full bed so will try that in future. I am a 4.5 USTA rated player. I always try different strings and normally keep 4 different setups on my racquets but generally use RS Lyon, Black Knight, legend/GW and Kev/ZX.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Post-surgery might be the time for the doctor to switch to the bulletproof Pro Kennex Kinetic technology (coincidentally first devised by a fellow professional pilot @g4driver !). PK makes Kinetic frames in a variety of weights, profiles and string density patterns. Something in their line will offer a good combo to solve the riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma, especially as he rehabs and wants to insulate the healing wing.

Shared by all their models are a much more uniformed string density pattern all the way across the stringbed, which mitigates string breakage more than any other design characteristic. Yonex mimicked Wilson early on the springboard effect of the open density patterns above and below sweetspot. Double bonus for Wilson as a huge string brand in the heyday of PS 6.1 Classic/Profile 2.7 before poly became so popular.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
Post-surgery might be the time for the doctor to switch to the bulletproof Pro Kennex Kinetic technology (coincidentally first devised by a fellow professional pilot @g4driver !). PK makes Kinetic frames in a variety of weights, profiles and string density patterns. Something in their line will offer a good combo to solve the riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma, especially as he rehabs and wants to insulate the healing wing.

Shared by all their models are a much more uniformed string density pattern all the way across the stringbed, which mitigates string breakage more than any other design characteristic. Yonex mimicked Wilson early on the springboard effect of the open density patterns above and below sweetspot. Double bonus for Wilson as a huge string brand in the heyday of PS 6.1 Classic/Profile 2.7 before poly became so popular.
Thanks @stringertom Truly appreciate the suggestion. I used a Pro Kennex Black Ace back in the 80s. I will certainly suggest he demo some PK frames from Tennis Warehouse, and thanks for the info on a pilot's connection to Pro Kennex.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Thanks @stringertom Truly appreciate the suggestion. I used a Pro Kennex Black Ace back in the 80s. I will certainly suggest he demo some PK frames from Tennis Warehouse, and thanks for the info on a pilot's connection to Pro Kennex.
Most welcome! BTW, while PK still makes very good traditional frames the operative word in the model name he seeks is Kinetic, which derives from the movable mass in the frame hoop (and now in the handle) that provides playing characteristics including all the insulation from shock that will be key to rehabbing as safely as possible. Pro Kennex Kinetic (Q-Plus Quad Focus are the latest generation) frames come in all weights, a wide variety of stiffness choices as well as string patterns and head size/profiles.

This video by one of their retailers is a bit corny at times but very informative:


The story I was told years ago when Kinetic was first rolled out by PK was that a German pilot ran into a fellow pilot and asked how his tennis game was going. The second pilot responded that he was sidelined with arm issues so his pal, being the innovative type, fooled around with finding a mechanical cure to his buddy’s ailment.

I also met a former touring pro who had retired to coaching and then was even further sidelined with arm issues that he always had an assistant on court to feed his clients. After being introduced to PK Kinetic, he ditched the feeding assistant and eventually wound up healing well enough to play age bracket singles tournaments here in Florida at least once every month.
 

1HBHfanatic

Legend
................
Now I will throw y'all a curve ball and tell you that I'm sitting out now, three weeks so far, following a pretty hard hitting session with two new stringjobs ...
Both with natural gut mains (I split a set of Klip Legend 15L and put half in a PT 2.0 and the other in a Wilson Ultra Tour).
I've never had TE in my life, but that was the only thing that changed that day.
And yes, I am *truly* puzzled about this whole thing, but I think I was some faulty swing mechanics that were able to get my forearm tendons real mad in just a couple of hours.
.............................
-i am no doctor, but this is what i've gathered in all my time playing tennis

-i just checked, both racquets ,"you listed" seem to have same racquet balance, 6pts HL!?,, this was my first consideration
-racquet stiffness/flex, is a close second
-i find when playing with multiple frames, the racquet balance will have the biggest ,"say" on my arm comfort!
-I've kept TE at bay, by matching the balance on all my racquets AND/or all racquets i test/demo (not always possible, but its contantly on my mind),
-my arm can handle/"is-used-to", a certain level of arm-strain, when the balance changes ,(from new unknown sticks) my arm talks to me!!

-i do agree that technique/mechanics is important, and could be why TE started for you !?!
-TE does happen from repetitive activities (not always from tennis)
-I've had people tell me that their TE acted-up by simply staking/shelving food-cans (repetitive weighted movement) !?!
-I'm sure you already know by now to ice, rest and apply pressure (elbow brace) to the area

-string tension/strings can flare up TE, but this is more of a secondary issue and not soo much the cause
-with higher tensions on strings, you will notice more hand/wrist pain, before the pain gets to the elbow/shoulder
-IMO, changing to softer strings to deal with TE, is like putting a sweater when you already have a cold!,,, sure it feels good/better, but its not dealing with the cold
 

Tennishippie

New User
The player in question as played tennis for 30+ years as a young junior with sound coaching and training that got him to college with a scholarship and has been bumped to 5.0 several times, so I don't think anyone who sees him play would think technique is the culprit. He has played for years with the same frame and strings/tension without any issue then this winter, the injury happened. This seems to be a case of overuse playing too many matches during a singles ladder of 4.5/5.0 players, making a bad choice to play through pain. A 4.5 buddy of mine got Golfer's Elbow from lifting weights, specifically curls. He said he remembers the injury vividly. He quit tennis over the injury. My ortho doc buddy says Stem Cell treatment works well with Golfer's Elbow but a torn tendon requires surgery.




The healing isn't going to happen until he has surgery. Per his doctor, he can't make the tear any worse. The tendon is torn already. The Ai 98 isn't a particularly stiff frame with an RDC of 63, but yes, there are more flexible frames.
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/reviews/YAI98/YAI98review.html. RDC of 63 wouldn't be considered stiff by most players, but nope it isn't a Clash 98.

The current Clash line has no 18x19 or 18x20 patterns and that is what he probably needs since he was breaking 1.30mm Hyper G mains in 12 hours like clockwork for two years. The Yonex VCore Pro 97 HD 18x20 would be a great demo for him post-surgery and suggested he demo it. Like other posters on here suggested, I believe he needs an 18 x 19/20 pattern frame which would help with the string breakage. The Pro97 HD is softer than his Ai98s with an RDC of 59. It will likely be on sale by the time he has surgery.

Thanks for your informative info on stringing for various guys and appreciate the input you have provided here in the forum which made me think about an arm friendly set up with Triax & Iso Cream. I'm a 4.5, 59 yr old looking into options for a shoulder friendly setup, currently using a Head Gravity Pro strung with Klip Legend NG mains @ 50 and ALU Power Rough in crosses at 45, new frame and adjusted string tension a little bit from previous setup for me but am liking it for arm friendliness, power, control, etc. I'm curious if you think Triax mains & Iso Cream cross or Triax mains & YPTA cross would be an arm & wallet friendlier option that performance wise I would not be able to tell the difference at my level? Also would you string the Triax at same tension as NG or alter and are the softer polys good at same tension as I have currently? Welcome your thoughts and feedback.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
Thanks for your informative info on stringing for various guys and appreciate the input you have provided here in the forum which made me think about an arm friendly set up with Triax & Iso Cream. I'm a 4.5, 59 yr old looking into options for a shoulder friendly setup, currently using a Head Gravity Pro strung with Klip Legend NG mains @ 50 and ALU Power Rough in crosses at 45, new frame and adjusted string tension a little bit from previous setup for me but am liking it for arm friendliness, power, control, etc. I'm curious if you think Triax mains & Iso Cream cross or Triax mains & YPTA cross would be an arm & wallet friendlier option that performance wise I would not be able to tell the difference at my level? Also would you string the Triax at same tension as NG or alter and are the softer polys good at same tension as I have currently? Welcome your thoughts and feedback.

Thanks for the feedback. The Gravity Pro is a pretty low powered frame.

https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/KLIP_Legend_Natural_Gut_16_String/descpageACKLIP-KLNG16.html $30 a pack
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Luxilon_ALU_Power_Rough_125_16L_String/descpageACWILSON-ALUPR16.html $19 a pack

So Klip Legend Natural Gut mains / Alu Power Rough crosses cost $24.50 per frame

But Tecnifibre is having a big sale right now.
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Tecnifibre_Triax_16_133_String/descpageACTFUSA-TSTX33.html ($15.96 a pack on sale) $23.95 not on sale is flat out too expensive.
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Tecnifibre_HDMX_Floro_16_String_/descpageACTFUSA-THDMXF16.html (Currently $12.76 a pack)
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Yonex_POLYTOUR_AIR_125_16L_String/descpageACYONEX-YPTA125BL.html $15 a pack (Rather expensive if you don't get on sale)

I prefer HDMX over Triax personally, but even if you prefer Triax at $23.95 a pack for Triax, that's just too expensive when Klip NG is $30 a pack. I don't like Triax enough to suggest it over HDMX. So even not on sale HDMX/YPTA is $17.50 a frame and plays incredibly soft. At $12.76 a pack for HDMX, the combo of HDMX/YTPA is $13.88 a frame.

Here's Tecnfibre's lastest entry into the fusion (multis with poly fibers) lineup is named RPX. I haven't tried it yet, and just am just finishing the Hyper G Soft playtest. I really don't want to playtest another multi/poly fused string right now, as I am set with 60+ packs of HDMX Tour, reels of HDMX and need to playtest HG Soft/ Ghostwire vs Tire One's Firewire / Ghostwire (called Boost by Tier One) vs VCT/GW.

Here's the string if you want to read about it. https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Tecnifibre_RPX_16_130_String/descpageACTFUSA-TRPX16.html

YPTA is slightly less stiff than Isospeed Cream, but yes, more expensive. I like YPTA, but buy it in reels, not packs and use 16.5 feet per cross, and therefore get 40 sets of crosses per reel. For the money, RPX / Cream looks like an interesting low cost soft setup option. I would string Triax and HDMX several pounds lower than Natural Gut. NG is the most powerful string available and it is strung higher to tame the power.
 

Tennishippie

New User
Thanks for the feedback. The Gravity Pro is a pretty low powered frame.

https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/KLIP_Legend_Natural_Gut_16_String/descpageACKLIP-KLNG16.html $30 a pack
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Luxilon_ALU_Power_Rough_125_16L_String/descpageACWILSON-ALUPR16.html $19 a pack

So Klip Legend Natural Gut mains / Alu Power Rough crosses cost $24.50 per frame

But Tecnifibre is having a big sale right now.
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Tecnifibre_Triax_16_133_String/descpageACTFUSA-TSTX33.html ($15.96 a pack on sale) $23.95 not on sale is flat out too expensive.
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Tecnifibre_HDMX_Floro_16_String_/descpageACTFUSA-THDMXF16.html (Currently $12.76 a pack)
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Yonex_POLYTOUR_AIR_125_16L_String/descpageACYONEX-YPTA125BL.html $15 a pack (Rather expensive if you don't get on sale)

I prefer HDMX over Triax personally, but even if you prefer Triax at $23.95 a pack for Triax, that's just too expensive when Klip NG is $30 a pack. I don't like Triax enough to suggest it over HDMX. So even not on sale HDMX/YPTA is $17.50 a frame and plays incredibly soft. At $12.76 a pack for HDMX, the combo of HDMX/YTPA is $13.88 a frame.

Here's Tecnfibre's lastest entry into the fusion (multis with poly fibers) lineup is named RPX. I haven't tried it yet, and just am just finishing the Hyper G Soft playtest. I really don't want to playtest another multi/poly fused string right now, as I am set with 60+ packs of HDMX Tour, reels of HDMX and need to playtest HG Soft/ Ghostwire vs Tire One's Firewire / Ghostwire (called Boost by Tier One) vs VCT/GW.

Here's the string if you want to read about it. https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Tecnifibre_RPX_16_130_String/descpageACTFUSA-TRPX16.html

YPTA is slightly less stiff than Isospeed Cream, but yes, more expensive. I like YPTA, but buy it in reels, not packs and use 16.5 feet per cross, and therefore get 40 sets of crosses per reel. For the money, RPX / Cream looks like an interesting low cost soft setup option. I would string Triax and HDMX several pounds lower than Natural Gut. NG is the most powerful string available and it is strung higher to tame the power.
Thanks so much for your informative and detailed reply. I will research the above and check out soon. (y)
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
Thanks so much for your informative and detailed reply. I will research the above and check out soon. (y)
Please let me know what you pick and how it works for you. @Dartagnan64 Thanks for the tip on Klip Legend at $30 a pack. Truly appreciate folks sharing great suggestions and I am taking advantage of your advice and stocking Klip Legend as I can't get Lux Gut any longer at $32 a pack. At $45 a pack for Lux Gut, that's just expensive for clients who use gut frequently.
 
Top