Kobayashi Maru String Scenario

blai212 said:
i see people complaining of arm problems but did no one consider stringing looser for more comfort? Right now I’m using VCP97 310g weighted up to 350g (mostly head light, added 3/4g at 10&2) with VCT 16g/SPPP 17L at 38/36 and no arm pain. Sometimes when I hit with lower level players, I might hit a tad too hard for them but other than that, life is great. Ya’ll should consider stringing as loose as u can while still being able to keep the ball in the court. Your arm will thank you.
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Appreciate your testimony that a player as good as you are can win with VCT/SPPP strung at lower tensions. To have guys at your level use a soft copoly string that many 3.5/4.0 guys can't control is another example that higher level players can use VCT or VCT/SPPP and protect their arms at lower tensions. Triax/YTPA, HDMX/YPTA, and Natural Gut/YPTA setups offer other soft options. Truly appreciate you giving VCT a try and posting about it. There are some strings that get positive reviews from my clients and while many clients choose Hyper G, it's great to see various higher level players can succeed with the softer copolys.

I use Tier One's Ghostwire to soften the stringbed of many shaped polys including Hyper G, Hyper G Soft, Revolution, and likely strings like 4G / 4G Soft, while reducing the cost of the string cost to the player compared to a full bed of a more expensive co-poly. Just hope people realize playing with a poly/poly hybrid like you use is a great way to soften a stringbed without sacrificing spin potential.
 
Would an hybrid Yonex Poly Tour Pro 1.25 and Head Velocity 1.30 (at 50 both) also work as an affordable and soft option for club players? Currently using this setup on my Ezone 98 and restring every 10 hours to be on the safe side. Thanks!
 
david.salamena said:
Would a hybrid Yonex Poly Tour Pro 1.25 and Head Velocity 1.30 (at 50 both) also work as an affordable and soft option for club players? Currently using this setup on my Ezone 98 and restring every 10 hours to be on the safe side. Thanks!
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Yes, YPTP 1.25mm is a pretty soft copoly. You can safely play with it for 15-16 hours IMO. The Ezone 98 is a fairly flexible frame and YPTA/Velocity is a nice hybrid that shouldn't hurt your wrist, elbow or shoulder. If you ever feel any pain, stop playing. Plenty of other options exist if you ever experience any discomfort.

Tennis Warehouse - Yonex Poly Tour Pro String Review

www.tennis-warehouse.com www.tennis-warehouse.com

If you want an even softer setup, use YPTA/Velocity.

Yonex POLYTOUR AIR 16L/1.25 String | Tennis Warehouse

www.tennis-warehouse.com www.tennis-warehouse.com
 
Thanks! Is it correct to string both mains and crosses at the same tension (approx 49-50)? I’ve read the you’re not supposed to string the crosses higher than the main, even when using a multi like Velocity in the crosses.
 
tennisintheeighties said:
My bad. Ok Wilson natural Gut.
I also read that you really like the hdmx / and ypta on cross , right ?
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No I have not tried hdmx at all. Its on my list to playtest, but it will probably be a while before I get to it, although I do have someone who I string for looking to move away from NRG for more control.
Might make him the guinea pig for this experiment.. 8-B
 
blai212 said:
i see people complaining of arm problems but did no one consider stringing looser for more comfort? Right now I’m using VCP97 310g weighted up to 350g (mostly head light, added 3/4g at 10&2) with VCT 16g/SPPP 17L at 38/36 and no arm pain. Sometimes when I hit with lower level players, I might hit a tad too hard for them but other than that, life is great. Ya’ll should consider stringing as loose as u can while still being able to keep the ball in the court. Your arm will thank you.
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He lies.... :laughing: just kidding.
Seriously, this is very true, I try to find the lowest possible tension on gut (mains) too that I can easily control with a given racket.
e.g for a blade 16X19 it was 65 while on my current Prince it is only 55.

Although I have to say that some people like me with sensitive arm/shoulder just have to say no to poly full or mains only.
While I can hit groundstrokes all day long with a full poly bed, I just cannot serve or hit overheads with poly for some reason.
And I have tried poly at under 40lbs as well.

For those people the gut/HDMX/Triax etc mains with a soft co poly is an excellent option to explore.
 
david.salamena said:
Thanks! Is it correct to string both mains and crosses at the same tension (approx 49-50)? I’ve read the you’re not supposed to string the crosses higher than the main, even when using a multi like Velocity in the crosses.
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You can do either the same tension or drop the crosses a few lbs. When doing the same type of string, poly/poly or multi/multi, I always dropped the crosses 2lbs unless otherwise instructed by the client.

If I get a poly / multi hybrid, I tension the crosses 2 lbs higher than the poly mains minimum. Been doing this for 10+ years and have never had a complaint or request for something different.
 
@g4driver (and others using triax/ypta) - I’ve been using this setup at 50/48. No pain in my recovering GE at that tension. I do feel like I get a little more spin with my previous regular setup (vs/zx pro). I am snapping the triax right around the 13/14 hour mark. Questions: the player you have been stringing this for that needs surgery- has he commented anything on spin and how long is his string lasting before breaking? Thanks!
 
shadow01 said:
@g4driver (and others using triax/ypta) - I’ve been using this setup at 50/48. No pain in my recovering GE at that tension. I do feel like I get a little more spin with my previous regular setup (vs/zx pro). I am snapping the triax right around the 13/14 hour mark. Questions: the player you have been stringing this for that needs surgery- has he commented anything on spin and how long is his string lasting before breaking? Thanks!
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The player who is the subject of this thread can likely hit more topspin in a 18x20 93 square inch frame than I could using UltraCable in a 105 16x15 Wilson Steam 105S. In other words, this is a player who hits a tremendous amount of spin compared to other 4.5 / 5.0 men in their 40s. The 5.0 men who hit him with openly state he hits more spin than most 5.0 men. I have suggested he demo the Yonex PRO HD with its 18x20 pattern I order to break strings less frequently.

He breaks the mains in the Triax / YPTA or HDMX / YPTA setup right around 12 hours.
 
g4driver said:
Triax 1.38mm / YPTA 1.25mm is the solution that gets him 13-14 hours. He will have surgery in June 2021 after his son graduates high school.

$24 per frame strung price (strings and labor)
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your labor must be really cheap? Those strings are not the cheapest. Triax is 21 a full set
 
Dobby said:
your labor must be really cheap? Those strings are not the cheapest. Triax is 21 a full set
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Thankfully, I don't normally pay MSRP for most strings. Sometimes I have to pay MSRP but try to avoid it. I buy YPTA and Triax in reels, like most strings I use frequently. Triax mains cost me less than $5.25 per main and YPTA $5 per cross, so yes I dropped my standard labor charge of $15 per frame to slightly more than $13 per frame for this client as he is my best client.

I have three levels of clients:
a) Teaching pros = free strings and free labor (they send me business and they get free everything except Natural Gut..strings, grips, labor, grommets, and installation)
b) Bread and butter clients = $15 labor and my cost for the strings (my best clients 4.0 to 5.0 men for the most part, with the bulk of them at 4.5 These are loyal clients who get free labor on all grommet/bumper guard installation, racquet matching)
c) Everyone else = $15 labor and MSRP for strings

I get 36 sets of mains out of a 660' reel and 40 sets of crosses from a 660' reel for frames that use 16x19 patterns and are 105 square inches or less. I bridge the mains if needed.

The Yonex Ai 98 needs 8 lengths for the mains and 16' 6" for the crosses. Which is 27 inches x 8 or 216" or 18 feet for the mains.
660 foot reel / 18 feet of Triax = 36+ sets of Triax Mains
660 / 16.5 feet of YPTA = 40 sets of YPTA crosses

You can sub in Isospeed Cream for the crosses and the feel is very close.
 
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I tried Triax 16g / Poly Tour Air at 54/51 and it snapped in an hour. (Similar longevity as HDMX / PTP).

Fantastic performance but I was using a Blade 98s and the 18x16 pattern just destroyed it. Back to the drawing board for me for a soft setup. Polys in the 40s feel good but I rather use a multi hybrid or something.
 
SonRK said:
I tried Triax 16g / Poly Tour Air at 54/51 and it snapped in an hour. (Similar longevity as HDMX / PTP).

Fantastic performance but I was using a Blade 98s and the 18x16 pattern just destroyed it. Back to the drawing board for me for a soft setup. Polys in the 40s feel good but I rather use a multi hybrid or something.
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Don't think a multi will work for you, more so in that racket.
Try Ghostwire mains and YPTA crosses, I personally haven't tried it but I think it might work if you like Triax.
 
SonRK said:
I tried Triax 16g / Poly Tour Air at 54/51 and it snapped in an hour. (Similar longevity as HDMX / PTP).

Fantastic performance but I was using a Blade 98s and the 18x16 pattern just destroyed it. Back to the drawing board for me for a soft setup. Polys in the 40s feel good but I rather use a multi hybrid or something.
Click to expand...
Get a racquet with a tighter string pattern.
 
SonRK said:
I tried Triax 16g / Poly Tour Air at 54/51 and it snapped in an hour. (Similar longevity as HDMX / PTP).

Fantastic performance but I was using a Blade 98s and the 18x16 pattern just destroyed it. Back to the drawing board for me for a soft setup. Polys in the 40s feel good but I rather use a multi hybrid or something.
Click to expand...
the 98s is notorious for going thru strings. it was my main racquet for a long time. even with full poly the strings start moving around and getting stuck in short order
 
SonRK said:
I tried Triax 16g / Poly Tour Air at 54/51 and it snapped in an hour. (Similar longevity as HDMX / PTP).

Fantastic performance but I was using a Blade 98s and the 18x16 pattern just destroyed it. Back to the drawing board for me for a soft setup. Polys in the 40s feel good but I rather use a multi-hybrid or something.
Click to expand...

Where did it break? In the middle of the strings or at the hoop on a shanked serve/overhead? When I see strings break in one hour or so, 99.99999% of the time it is a shank on a tie-off.

As a 3.5 player using an 18x16 frame, you are doing yourself a disservice with that 18x16 frame. Get a 16x19 frame and your game will improve along with your string life. Will Shelley will be a 5.0 again in November and Triax 1.33mm / YPTA 1.25mm last him 13 hours in a 16x19 frame and he hits more spin than most USTA 5.0 guys in town.

@SonRK I have a 4.5 USTA player using a PS97S 18x16 with 1.30 mm Lux Gut / 1.27 mm Ghostwire and it lasts him two months if you might consider that setup.
 
g4driver said:
Where did it break? In the middle of the strings or at the hoop on a shanked serve/overhead? When I see strings break in one hour or so, 99.99999% of the time it is a shank on a tie-off.

As a 3.5 player using an 18x16 frame, you are doing yourself a disservice with that 18x16 frame. Get a 16x19 frame and your game will improve along with your string life. Will Shelley will be a 5.0 again in November and Triax 1.33mm / YPTA 1.25mm last him 13 hours in a 16x19 frame and he hits more spin than most USTA 5.0 guys in town.

@SonRK I have a 4.5 USTA player using a PS97S 18x16 with 1.30 mm Lux Gut / 1.27 mm Ghostwire and it lasts him two months if you might consider that setup.
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I consistently break strings in the middle so I know it's not a shank. It's just my strange swingpath that leads it to sawing extremely fast. I switched to the Blade 98 16x19 and I have seen a noticeable change in string durability so my stroke with that 18x16 open string pattern was not cooperating with each other. I might try Triax/PTPA again.

I do get about 16-18 hours with Nat Gut / Poly combos in my 2018 frame of choice, Beast 100, which means it will last me about 4 weeks at my current schedule of play.
 
SonRK said:
I consistently break strings in the middle so I know it's not a shank. It's just my strange swingpath that leads it to sawing extremely fast. I switched to the Blade 98 16x19 and I have seen a noticeable change in string durability so my stroke with that 18x16 open string pattern was not cooperating with each other. I might try Triax/PTPA again.

I do get about 16-18 hours with Nat Gut / Poly combos in my 2018 frame of choice, Beast 100, which means it will last me about 4 weeks at my current schedule of play.
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What strings are you wearing through fastest in the 16x19 Blade 98 or Beast 100 16x19? The NG mains? Are you using 1.30 mm VS Gut/ Lux or Klip Legend Natural Gut?

I have a 4.5 guy using VS Gut 1.30mm/Triaix 1.38 mm as he always breaks the cross strings first, so the simple fix for him was a thicker cross. VS Gut 1.30mm / Ghostwire 1.27mm is lasting several guys 2+ months in 16x19 and 16x18 Prince Textreme Warrior 100 frames
 
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g4driver said:
What strings are you wearing through fastest in the 16x19 Blade 98 or Beast 100 16x19? The NG mains? Are you using 1.30 mm VS Gut/ Lux or Klip Legend Natural Gut?

I have a 4.5 guy using VS Gut 1.30mm/Triaix 1.38 mm as he always breaks the cross strings first, so the simple fix for him was a thicker cross. VS Gut 1.30mm / Ghostwire 1.27mm is lasting several guys 2+ months in 16x19 and 16x18 Prince Textreme Warrior 100 frames
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I use VS 1.30 and mix up the crosses (but nothing ever sharp), but PTPA/Luxilon Element are the common ones I would use (16L).

But, on about a 10-15% occasion, I will pop my poly crosses first (at around the same time of 15ish hours). When looking at my racquet at an angle, I can see the poly crosses get skinnier and skinnier along the middle (I took a photo if this sounds confusing)
 
If you haven't tried GhostWire, it is slightly stiffer than YPTA or Element and about $8 a pack. It's been in my crosses since the HGS playtest ended.
And it works with shaped polys and NG mains. IMO it is the best smooth poly cross for the money today.
 
g4driver said:
If you haven't tried GhostWire, it is slightly stiffer than YPTA or Element and about $8 a pack. It's been in my crosses since the HGS playtest ended.
And it works with shaped polys and NG mains. IMO it is the best smooth poly cross for the money today.
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ever tried it in a full bed?
 
g4driver said:
If you haven't tried GhostWire, it is slightly stiffer than YPTA or Element and about $8 a pack. It's been in my crosses since the HGS playtest ended.
And it works with shaped polys and NG mains. IMO it is the best smooth poly cross for the money today.
Click to expand...

I saw your posts in the HGS thread and I started doing HGS/GhostWire (18g) to get my arm used to polyester again. It's soft, has great spin and power potential. 18g is just too low of lifespan though, even for me as a 3.5er (5 hours or less). I might bump up to 17g if my arm is still feeling good.

Haven't tried Ghostwire in a Nat Gut hybrid though...
 
Just read the initial post and had a similar issues - GE with multiple cortisone shots. I still can't touch any poly, even if I put in YPT-Air or Cream in the crosses (with gut mains), kills my arm. My solution:

- PK KiQ+ Tour 325 (2017 version) (18x20)
- Natural Gut Wholesale (V5+, 17g, uncoated) mains x Syn Gut (Dunlop S-Gut) cross ~ $15 (55x53lbs).
- Former college player - 5.0, heavy top spin game, OHBH.
- Lasts 8-10 hrs.... could be longer with string savers and/or coated gut and/or thicker gut.
- It honestly feels and plays fantastic, and most importantly pain-free.
 
after seeing this thread, i have been stringing my daugher's racquet with hdmx 135/cream 128 at 45/40 for 6 months. i tried hdmx 135/yonex air 125 but the mains broke too quickly. she was getting 15-18hrs with hdmx 135/cream 128, but recently she has started to break the crosses in this setup around 8-10 hours. (sometimes two crosses at once). she has been hitting harder, i guess, but is there any way to get the durability back up to 15hr or so (and make sure that the more expensive hdmx breaks first)? would it make sense to try ghost wire 128 instead of cream?
 
And like I forecasted, Will Shelley was bumped to 5.0 this year. And of course, like all 5.0 men who want to play USTA tennis, he hit the appeal down button since there are zero 5.0 leagues in our area :unsure:

USTA leagues for 5.0 players = fail
 
g4driver said:
And like I forecasted, Will Shelley was bumped to 5.0 this year. And of course, like all 5.0 men who want to play USTA tennis, he hit the appeal down button since there are zero 5.0 leagues in our area :unsure:

USTA leagues for 5.0 players = fail
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5.0s are stuck playing open level in the smaller money tournaments in my area (where they get beaten). and they usually put together a usta team that plays nobody during the season until the state tournament at the end of the season.

our local clubs have started having a lot more UTR tournaments lately, but thats a whole different beast thats still suffering from growing pains
 
g4driver said:
And like I forecasted, Will Shelley was bumped to 5.0 this year. And of course, like all 5.0 men who want to play USTA tennis, he hit the appeal down button since there are zero 5.0 leagues in our area :unsure:

USTA leagues for 5.0 players = fail
Click to expand...
Sorry who is Will Shelley?
 
live report:

I've been enjoying the Camry-version of gut/poly in the form of NRG2 x softer value polys.

I put NRG2 x YPTP 1.25 noir in a Clash 100 for a hitting buddy of mine and he likes it. I did a test drive myself since I'd never hit a Clash before and it gave me wicked mains movement and nice power and pocketing. As tired I was at the time I was hitting a better ball than my usual TF40 305 or Ultra Tour.

The hype of the Maru Movement is real :-D

/Acey
 
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$25 a frame strung that lasts him longer than HG 1.25mm/ Head Hawk 1.25mm . Thanks to Tecnfibre and YPTA with more clients using this setup now.
 
I have to mention Genesis White Magic (1.25) as a soft smooth cross to look at.

It's very muted, but for a soft string seems to hold tension better than most. Also for a 1.25 it seems chubby in the hand (I think it's the bend radius it follows that makes it seem as though it's thicker than it actually is).

I used a few packs with customers and had them asking for it again on restrings [yay] so I have a reel now (not a TW sku, fyi).

/Acey
 
blai212 said:
any idea how genesis white magic 1.25 plays in a full bed?
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Kind of dead. "squishy" is what comes to mind.

I don't play poly fullbed myself but it plays to me like a half dead syngut, which I'm very familiar with as a vintage player with a small budget.

I hit too flat to critique the spin, which seemed normal for a round 1.25 poly to my swing.

If someone had arm trouble and refused to try a hybrid then it's a a good fullbed but for me it's all about being a cross.

HTH

/Acey

Possibly as a mains or even fullbed for a strong junior moving up from fullbed Multifeel, PPC or Velocity.
 
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genesis white magic that I used is actually 1.23 and texture felt very similar to sppp pure. I tried it as a cross with prince premier touch 15L mains at 43/36 lbs and still felt a bit too stiff for me. Maybe my arm just cant handle any poly. PPT/YPT Air felt comfortable for me but I still find it hard to generate power with multi. Gonna try @g4driver combo of triax/pta and hdmx/pta along with multi/firestorm or multi/pta hybrid setups. My arm just cannot handle full bed poly in my matte green vcore pro 97s because they transmit too much feel/shock when I take big swings.
 
multi + firestorm is a good thing.

/Acey

I got a 2nd reel of Firestorm in 1.25 because it's a nice cross. (G4 may have lifted that from me I don't recall. We have good CRM— he thinks of things right before I point them out to him.)
 
AceyMan said:
multi + firestorm is a good thing.

/Acey

I got a 2nd reel of Firestorm in 1.25 because it's a nice cross. (G4 may have lifted that from me I don't recall. We have good CRM— he thinks of things right before I point them out to him.)
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Never tried Firestorm.. The last string I play tested was HGS and it will be a long time before I playtest another string due to work. Flew more from June 21 - Dec 21 than normally fly Jan - Dec.. Tennis, stringing and non-work life have been curtailed due to "staffing shortages."
 
Maru success story here:

Long story short, Pure Drive 100+ player ended up with HDMX 15L x YPTA at 25/23 kg and was happy with the longevity after my first multi/poly hybrid for them broke (in a day!?).

He got two months out of this blend. It looks pretty fly in the newest grey/blue PJ, too.

/Acey
 
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Checking in with some golfers elbow of my own over here.

Got YPTA 1.25, Cream 1.28, Ghost Wire 1.17, HDMX 1.35, Velocity 1.30 and Triax 1.38 on their way to me (with a pack of 1.33 Triax here already).

Thinking of side-by-side testing
YPTA + Triax 1.38 vs Cream + Triax 1.38
YPTA + HDMX vs Cream + HDMX
Velocity + Triax 1.33
Ghost Wire + Triax 1.33

That should let me settle on Cream vs YPTA and whether I prefer HDMX or Triax (No RPX on sale in Europe).
 
@IVKI - Nice little experiment you have setup there. One thing to keep in mind is @g4driver's rule of thumb to try and keep opposing multi and poly gauges as close to one another as possible in these setups. I know you're trying to keep the string bed as soft as possible, but you might want to consider sizing up Ghostwire to 1.22 when pairing with Triax 1.33. It's not that much stiffer than 1.17 and will provide a bit more equal sheering surface between the two, which could result in a decent longevity boost for Triax. Perhaps a good "mini-experiment" to try, if nothing else.
 
Thanks Trip! Couldn't find 1.22 when I put my order in, but will try and source a set.

Also want to give Multifeel a go with Velocity crosses!
 
Around a .1mm or two gage difference where the main is the thinner one, imhe, work best with a main string that is able to sustain the friction and will slowly grind away the cross over a longer section of it.

I would be inclined to expect the GW 18g to break quickly because it is a very soft poly and does not hold to abrasion like other strings would. No matter the cross is "not poly" or softer or whatever, I have strung dozens of frames with different gages of GW and love the string.
 
RPX 1.35 / Cream 1.28 is the cheapest setup and will closely mimic Triax 1.38mm / YPTA 1.25mm
HDMX 1.35 is a bit cheaper than Triax and will last most players a long time.
Will is the quickest string breaker I have out of multiple former Division 1 collegiate players, but 1.35MM RPX or HDMX will work for many players who have golfer's or tennis elbows.
Keep the crosses as close as you can to the diameter of the main string to prevent increased sawing of the softer multiester (Triax, HDMX, RPX).
 
@g4driver - "Multiester" haha, love it. You should trademark that! In all seriousness, those and the elastomer-based co-polys are really great arrows to have in the quiver.

Curious: have you ever given any nylon monofilaments a try? I'm thinking of stuff like Babolat Origin (now rebranded to "RPM Soft") or Diadem Evolution. I've been trying Evolution lately, and aside from a bit higher string-to-string friction than the likes of Cream, I've been impressed by the tension maintenance and durability when used as a cross to a poly main. Much more resistant to notching than any pure multi, and of course doesn't shred at all, while also being lower-powered than most solid-core syn-guts. It's also priced pretty well -- $10 a pack, $150 a reel and 15% off codes are easy to find (short of getting them at wholesale if you can develop that relationship).
 
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