Kobayashi Maru String Scenario

g4driver

Legend
No worries @K1Y

Indeed there are so many permutations for string combinations. So many strings, so many ways to mix them and so many different playing styles and injuries to consider. Hope I helped you a bit.


"A permutation is an ordered combination." ;)
 

K1Y

Professional
No worries @K1Y

Indeed there are so many permutations for string combinations. So many strings, so many ways to mix them and so many different playing styles and injuries to consider. Hope I helped you a bit.


"A permutation is an ordered combination." ;)
could not have worded it better. Helped more than a bit sir. Thanks again.
 

Psi7

Rookie
Just want to clarify: are you using a full bed of Yonex Poly Tour Pro 1.25mm in a Babolat Pure Aero? If your elbow is feeling pain and you are having to use ice packs with 1.25mm PTP, 1.30 PTP mains / 1.25 PTP crosses are only going to make this worse for pain. Reading your post gives us a clear picture of your level, your frequency of string breakage, and the pain you are enduring. Just want to be clear, you are at a level I am not used to stringing for honestly. Current Division One college players in their early 20s are my highest level players and they are all still using stiffer polys.

At your level given your current golfers elbow, it seems you have two (maybe three) non-medical options going forward:

1) switching frames to something with a denser pattern (18x 19/20 or 16x20) and a lower RDC (which you are already considering)
2) using softer strings and restringing even more frequently than 3 hours
3) NG / smooth poly

Going with Option #1
The 18x20 frames like the Yonex Pro 97HD 18x20 with its 59 RDC strung with softer thicker strings such as Tecnifibre HDMX 1.35 mains and a string like YPTA might give you the comfort you are looking for and a little more time between string breakage.


If you are sticking with any 16x19/20 patterns perhaps consider these also:

The Clash 98 2.0 (16x20) with an RDC 60

Babolat Pure Strike VS (16x20) with an RDC 63

But avoid the
Babolat Pure Aero VS (16x20) RDC jumps to 67 (so IMO, this is the wrong direction to go as the RDC has a direct correlation to the pain your elbow is feeling)

Going with Option #2

Hoping this option might give you both comfort and 4+ hours before breakage

Highly suggest trying Hyper G Soft 1.30mm / Ghostwire 1.27mm

If you are snapping YPTP 1.25mm in 3 hours, in order to get more comfort, you have to find softer strings, or a softer frame.

Option #3 (something you should try for once)

Yonex 18x20 Pro 97 HD with 1.35mm Natural Gut mains and a slick smooth poly cross like (GhostWire 1.27mm, YPTP 1.30mm or Yonex Poly Pro 1.30mm)
Keeping the crosses as close the diameter of the Natural Gut in the mains will minimize the sawing.

I would suspect the 1.35mm NG with an 18x20 pattern would give you the comfort you seek and hopefully 4+ hours of play before breakage.

Thanks for that post.

I've already made order for two demos Ezone 98 and Vcore pro 100 as mentioned, but i will also check Head Speed Pro and Vcore Pro 97d as you mentioned. Both of this are 18x20. Head Speed Pro also with 62 stiffness, not as heavy as 97d. To be honest dont think Clash could be ok but after reading what you said i kind of feel this Head Speed Pro might be one of the best choices. Or one of the Yonex Vcore Pro. Head Gravity with 18x20 and 61 stiffness would fit this one too.

I will check how i feel with 22.5/22kg tension tomorrow as i have a game at the morning.

Based on TW university Hyper G Soft looks like a better string than PTP. A little bit softer but with way better(smaller) Tension loss%. Similar to the stiff strings. So i am about to check it soon, just think that i will test racquets first with PTP as i might not have enough time to switch between new strings and new racquets.

Maybe it would be worth checking Hyper G Soft 1.30 on mains and PTP 1.25 on crosses?

As for level i am sure your 20's players are better then me so i am not higher level. I am 35' havent played for nearly 15 years until last year. My elbow is probably not prepared for that forehand/serve. Like i feel similar to the times when i wanted to be a player but my body thinks this was different life :) I am doing a lot of exercises though but racquet switch is needed.

Also Yes, i played Babolat Pure Aero with 1.25 Blast for nearly a year until like 10 days ago when i switched Blast to 1.25 PTP.
 

g4driver

Legend
Thanks for that post.
Maybe it would be worth checking Hyper G Soft 1.30 on mains and PTP 1.25 on crosses?

In a 16x19 Ezone 98 or VCore Pro 100, yes.

If you use an 18x20, go with something like Tecnifibre HDMX 1.35 / YPTA just to get a softer setup if your elbow is still hurting or use thinner strings like HGS 1.25mm / PTP 1.20mm
 

g4driver

Legend
Thanks for that post.

I've already made order for two demos Ezone 98 and Vcore pro 100 as mentioned, but i will also check Head Speed Pro and Vcore Pro 97d as you mentioned. Both of this are 18x20. Head Speed Pro also with 62 stiffness, not as heavy as 97d. To be honest dont think Clash could be ok but after reading what you said i kind of feel this Head Speed Pro might be one of the best choices. Or one of the Yonex Vcore Pro. Head Gravity with 18x20 and 61 stiffness would fit this one too.

I didn't mean to leave out the Head Speed Pro 18x20 just thought you were focused on the Yonex frames in 16x19. Just something for thought. The more HL and the heavier the frame, the more your elbow will appreciate it. Think of this analogy. You are driving and a Land Rover Defender runs a light and hits your vehicle. Do you want to be in a Defender or a heavier Range Rover? :unsure: The heavier frame will absorb more shock from the incoming ball. Swing the heaviest frame you can swing for 2.5 hours or a 3-set match.

The easiest way to had weight to a frame with a trap door simultaneously making it more head light, is it to add a leather grip and/or add 10 grams of Tungsten Putty in the buttcap.

Fairway's...nothing better IMO.


Link below to all the Fairway's. The blemished ones work just as well and my eyes never noticed any blemishes when I put an overgrip on them. 48x 15/16 for 27.5 inch frames.



 

Psi7

Rookie
I didn't mean to leave out the Head Speed Pro 18x20 just thought you were focused on the Yonex frames in 16x19. Just something for thought. The more HL and the heavier the frame, the more your elbow will appreciate it. Think of this analogy. You are driving and a Land Rover Defender runs a light and hits your vehicle. Do you want to be in a Defender or a heavier Range Rover? :unsure: The heavier frame will absorb more shock from the incoming ball. Swing the heaviest frame you can swing for 2.5 hours or a 3-set match.

The easiest way to had weight to a frame with a trap door simultaneously making it more head light, is it to add a leather grip and/or add 10 grams of Tungsten Putty in the buttcap.

Fairway's...nothing better IMO.


Link below to all the Fairway's. The blemished ones work just as well and my eyes never noticed any blemishes when I put an overgrip on them. 48x 15/16 for 27.5 inch frames.




i just ordered few ptp 1.25 and hyper-g soft 1.30. I want to stay with ptp until i pick new racquet as i will have 2 weeks to demo now and dont want to mess with hyper-g at the moment but for sure will try it either full or as hybrid with ptp.

found one more thing -https://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/vibfrequency.cgi

vibration frequency. Just noticed that both 97d at 320g and 18x20 and regular 97at 310g and 16x19 are really on top of that list with stiffness at 60/61 too. I will have to wait a bit for that ezone 98 and vcore pro 100 so i maybe i can order both of this 97 versions first and havefew days of testing before the other too arrive and because both are similar racquets ithink it could work to check both at the same time in terms of elbow pain and how i feel with both 16x19 and 18x20 as both should give me no elbow pain. i can then see how ezone 98 and head speed compare to that

think thats worth trying as with two different ones it mightbe hard to estimate exactly how elbow feels with each(if one is great and the other one gives pain) and with this two 97’touch and feel should be very similar

If i am right i should end testing both 97’s without pain and also know wich 16x19 or 18x20 is better for me. Also regular 97 is still more heavy the the other racquets as its 310z

Would you agree?
 

g4driver

Legend
my guess is you will find comfort with any of those Yonex VCore Pro 97 frames.

The 16x19 will be more comfortable with the same poly strings in both frames, but the 18x20 pattern will give you a longer string life if you choose to use thicker softer strings like 1.35mm Natural Gut mains / 1.25mm YPTP crosses than something like Triax 1.38mm/ YPTP 1.25. If you use poly in the 18x20 frame, it will most certainly feel stiffer than the same polys in the 16x19 version of the same frame.

My .02 is 1.35 NG mains / 1.25 YPTP crosses in the 18x20 will give you a great combo of comfort and string life.

Klip 1.35 is $30 USD ( $15 for the mains ), no idea what your prices are for the gut in Europe.
 

Psi7

Rookie
my guess is you will find comfort with any of those Yonex VCore Pro 97 frames.

The 16x19 will be more comfortable with the same poly strings in both frames, but the 18x20 pattern will give you a longer string life if you choose to use thicker softer strings like 1.35mm Natural Gut mains / 1.25mm YPTP crosses than something like Triax 1.38mm/ YPTP 1.25. If you use poly in the 18x20 frame, it will most certainly feel stiffer than the same polys in the 16x19 version of the same frame.

My .02 is 1.35 NG mains / 1.25 YPTP crosses in the 18x20 will give you a great combo of comfort and string life.

Klip 1.35 is $30 USD ( $15 for the mains ), no idea what your prices are for the gut in Europe.

Yes, thanks for the suggestions but will do strings after racquet change as i am about to test those in upcoming 2 weeks.

Based on what you said and what i read i decided to change my order and for now skip testing ezone 98 and vcore pro 100. Both are at 64 and 63 rdc and elbow pain is priority here so i will get vcore pro 97 and 97 d for first week. 60 and 61 rdc, both 7pts HL.

will getmy current string setup on both and will see how my elbow is after two days straight sessions and hopefully it will make difference… Then my local shop will have speed mp available, 16x19 version, Not 18x20 pro one. Will compare it to that vcore pro 97 And then move on to either checking pro version as well or no. Of course assuming pain is gone or at least i notice huge difference

dont see point in testing ezone first as i will get used to every racquet but i will sacrifice everything for no more elbow pain. If i keep getting pain with vcore pro 97 then i will surely have it with ezone as well.

Its probably deeper than just racquet change too. I am quite sure its really hurting me and i am at the point that for the weekend tournament i consider getting demo instead of playing with my current one(even with worse result) but its hard for me to imagine that pain will go away just like that.

one thing is racquet, but the other thing is probaby mess in that elbow too. I played yesterday my match and it was all good. Today i went on court just to play with my wife( that i learn how to play) sojust chill, but i did serve like half of the basket maybe showing her the move and my had such pain that i didint want to hold racquet at the end(first time had that bit of a pain after switching from blast to ptp) . Ice at home fixed it but man i hate it so much. Will have few ultrasounds treatment soon and will read about PRP injection as well. Might do MRI too just in case. Will definitely do if i keep getting pain next week with vcore pro 97

but fingers crossed for a fix without that and jackpot hit with less stiff racquet
 

EggSalad

Hall of Fame
Yes, thanks for the suggestions but will do strings after racquet change as i am about to test those in upcoming 2 weeks.

Based on what you said and what i read i decided to change my order and for now skip testing ezone 98 and vcore pro 100. Both are at 64 and 63 rdc and elbow pain is priority here so i will get vcore pro 97 and 97 d for first week. 60 and 61 rdc, both 7pts HL.

will getmy current string setup on both and will see how my elbow is after two days straight sessions and hopefully it will make difference… Then my local shop will have speed mp available, 16x19 version, Not 18x20 pro one. Will compare it to that vcore pro 97 And then move on to either checking pro version as well or no. Of course assuming pain is gone or at least i notice huge difference

dont see point in testing ezone first as i will get used to every racquet but i will sacrifice everything for no more elbow pain. If i keep getting pain with vcore pro 97 then i will surely have it with ezone as well.

Its probably deeper than just racquet change too. I am quite sure its really hurting me and i am at the point that for the weekend tournament i consider getting demo instead of playing with my current one(even with worse result) but its hard for me to imagine that pain will go away just like that.

one thing is racquet, but the other thing is probaby mess in that elbow too. I played yesterday my match and it was all good. Today i went on court just to play with my wife( that i learn how to play) sojust chill, but i did serve like half of the basket maybe showing her the move and my had such pain that i didint want to hold racquet at the end(first time had that bit of a pain after switching from blast to ptp) . Ice at home fixed it but man i hate it so much. Will have few ultrasounds treatment soon and will read about PRP injection as well. Might do MRI too just in case. Will definitely do if i keep getting pain next week with vcore pro 97

but fingers crossed for a fix without that and jackpot hit with less stiff racquet

I’d highly recommend demoing a foam filled racquet before making your decision. Angell, Diadem, Technifibre have some great options. I think you’ll be surprised by the difference it makes and how good your arm feels.
 

Trip

Legend
Per @EggSalad's suggestion, Angell aside (only because they can be harder to come by), I would go Tecnifibre (TF40 or TFight) if you like narrower mains for more control and/or flatter hitting, and Diadem (Elevate and Nova) if you're more of a spin player with more windshield-wiper strokes, as they have more open mains.
 

Happi

Hall of Fame
Per @EggSalad's suggestion, Angell aside (only because they can be harder to come by), I would go Tecnifibre (TF40 or TFight) if you like narrower mains for more control and/or flatter hitting, and Diadem (Elevate and Nova) if you're more of a spin player with more windshield-wiper strokes, as they have more open mains.

Angell racquets are not hard to come by at all, they have a great website and you can order direct. Really quality frames.
 

Psi7

Rookie
I’d highly recommend demoing a foam filled racquet before making your decision. Angell, Diadem, Technifibre have some great options. I think you’ll be surprised by the difference it makes and how good your arm feels.

Ok then, i will give it a go with Tecnifibre as well. Thank You all for the suggestions. My testing will start on sunday as i decided to get two demo's for the tourney i play just to check it right away. Then the others should arrive next week and hopefully within 2 weeks i will know more in this matter. Will open thread and will share my reviews as there will be quite few.

I also read a little bit about shock-wave therapy and decided to give it a go. Had 1st session yesterday, will have one more tomorrow so hopefully this will do something!
 

mkedda

Rookie
I tried Triax 16g / Poly Tour Air at 54/51 and it snapped in an hour. (Similar longevity as HDMX / PTP).

Fantastic performance but I was using a Blade 98s and the 18x16 pattern just destroyed it. Back to the drawing board for me for a soft setup. Polys in the 40s feel good but I rather use a multi hybrid or something.

This is gut wrenching and killing me! I broke triax full bed in an hour and was hoping the hybrid would change that.
 

g4driver

Legend
This is gut wrenching and killing me! I broke triax full bed in an hour and was hoping the hybrid would change that.

what string pattern, what frame and what gauge?

Without that information, it is pure speculation on the reader to determine anything other than you broke the Triax in a hour.

Anyone using a "Spin Effect " frame like 16x15, 18x16 frames can expect to break strings rather quickly.

I have a 27 year old USTA 5.5C former Div 1 client who broke 1.25 mm Alu Power last week in a 16x20 2020 PA VS in two hours, because I was out of 1.30mm Alu Power. On the other hand 1.30mm Alu Power lasts him roughly 8 hours and 1.38mm ALu Power maybe double that.
 

mkedda

Rookie
I am 4.0A likely to be bumped back to 4.5 after this year. Over 40 yrs old.
Lefty, heavy top forehand and spin and kick serves.
I use a head speed mp 360 16x19. Love the stick with 63 RA.
Always use 16-gauge string.
Battled with GE for a while. I had a procedure done called Percutaneous tenotomy that brought me back to my current level.

I have tried MANY multis out there and they all pop in 1-3 hours for me.
Full bed of Triax lasted <2 hours.

I have been trying to use Ashway Monogut ZX. However, I popped that a few times in 1-3 hours.
But, occasionally, on off center hits I have had it pop in <15 minutes. I could deal with this unusual string for its comfort and spin if it would last even 4 hours.

I have been experimenting with Volkl Cyclone Tour mains / Ashway Zx crosses and I get ~3 hours out of that. Not sure if the zx is causing an issue with the VCT and prematurely popping it.

This past weekend at USTA Mid-west's I used a full bed of Volkl Cyclone Tour and it did last through all 4 of my singles matches (~6 hours). However, I did notice shoulder pain on Sunday evening and took the last few days off. I do not want to play with a full bed of poly for fear of my elbow, shoulder and age.

Appreciate this thread and seek any advice you can offer!!

what string pattern, what frame and what gauge?

Without that information, it is pure speculation on the reader to determine anything other than you broke the Triax in a hour.

Anyone using a "Spin Effect " frame like 16x15, 18x16 frames can expect to break strings rather quickly.

I have a 27 year old USTA 5.5C former Div 1 client who broke 1.25 mm Alu Power last week in a 16x20 2020 PA VS in two hours, because I was out of 1.30mm Alu Power. On the other hand 1.30mm Alu Power lasts him roughly 8 hours and 1.38mm ALu Power maybe double that.
 

Trip

Legend
@mkedda - Have you tried Ashaway Kevlar 16 mains plus MonoGut ZX 16 crosses? You'll get near-full-poly levels of snapback and control, but better touch play, much better shock absorption and likely a fair amount more longevity. FYI, Ashaway Kevlar (and only Ashaway's) is not your dad's kevlar from the 90's -- it's textile-grade, woven as a braided multi, so it's much easier on the arm. It will slowly saw itself in half on the Zyex, but will retain pretty good snapback and play very well almost up until breakage.

If you do decide to try it, when stringing, do double or triple pulls of the kevlar, and 20-30 second slow pulls on the ZX, clamp the ZX crosses no closer than 1/2" away from the frame, hand-tie your ZX finishing knots, and you should be good to go. Also, there are those who advocate for a healthy amount of manual pre-stretching of both hybrid halves (2-3" on the Kev, 20-24" on the Zyex), to prevent excessive tension drop and playability change, but after comparing, I think it's more trouble than it's worth, as it takes a fair bit of the "magic" out of the ZX (rebound characteristics, pocketing, surface finish, etc.), plus I think you can get "enough" pre-stretch out of both strings on the machine with the methods I detailed above. Feel free to test both approachs, though; I'd be interested as to what you find.

As an anecdotal reference, @graycrait strings this combo for some fairly high-level string breakers who drive out-of-market just to get this combo done by him, when no other will suffice. Again, your mileage may vary, but it's at least worth a shot.
 
Last edited:

mkedda

Rookie
Acronym Map?

FW = TierOne Firewire???
HG = Solinco Hyper-G
HGS = Solinco Hyper-G Soft
GW = Ghost Wire
VCT = Volkl Cyclone Tour
HDMX = Technfibre HDMX
YPTA = Yonex Poly Tour Air
PPC = Prince Premier Control
X1 = Technifibre X-1 biphase
NXT = Wilson NXT
MF = Technifibre MultiFeel

So as this is a GOAT thread, I wanted to compile a few of the @g4driver gospels in one place (for my easy recollection too!) as I work through them all.

Poly: From Stiff to Soft
HG 1.25mm/GW 1.22mm
FW 1.25mm/GW 1.22mm
HGS 1.25mm/GW 1.22mm
VCT 1.30mm

Multiester Combinations:
1.35mm HDX Tour or 1.35mm HDMX in the mains with YPTA or Cream crosses.
1.33mm/1.38mm Triax in the mains with YPTA or Cream crosses.

Multifilaments

1.30mm MF, PPC, X1 or NXT in the mains with Velocity Crosses.
1.40 PPC with Cream crosses.

Hopefully I've understood that correctly as I trawled through numerous threads - @g4driver please do correct me!
 

mkedda

Rookie
Thanks for the suggetions!!!

I have tried this setup in my older, Head Speed MP. I actually had it in my bag this past weekend.
I concur on the longevity and spin!
I didn't love the feel. It is sooo incredibly low powered, it just felt flat. Spin was high, feel was great in the sweet spot.
I didnt feel arm pain, however, I am just not willing to take the long term risk of such a highly stiff main string.

I also know my guy us not going to do anything but just string it and I dont string my own rackets.

@mkedda - Have you tried Ashaway Kevlar 16 mains plus MonoGut ZX 16 crosses? You'll get near-full-poly levels of snapback and control, but better touch play, much better shock absorption and likely a fair amount more longevity. FYI, Ashaway Kevlar (and only Ashaway's) is not your dad's kevlar from the 90's -- it's textile-grade, woven as a braided multi, so it's much easier on the arm. It will slowly saw itself in half on the Zyex, but will retain pretty good snapback and play very well almost up until breakage.

If you do decide to try it, when stringing, do double or triple pulls of the kevlar, and 20-30 second slow pulls on the ZX, clamp the ZX crosses no closer than 1/2" away from the frame, hand-tie your ZX finishing knots, and you should be good to go. Also, there are those who advocate for a healthy amount of manual pre-stretching of both hybrid halves (2-3" on the Kev, 20-24" on the Zyex), to prevent excessive tension drop and playability change, but after comparing, I think it's more trouble than it's worth, as it takes a fair bit of the "magic" out of the ZX (rebound characteristics, pocketing, surface finish, etc.), plus I think you can get "enough" pre-stretch out of both strings on the machine with the methods I detailed above. Feel free to test both approachs, though; I'd be interested as to what you find.

As an anecdotal reference, @graycrait strings this combo for some fairly high-level string breakers who drive out-of-market just to get this combo done by him, when no other will suffice. Again, your mileage may vary, but it's at least worth a shot.
 

mkedda

Rookie
last question... I love this thread @g4driver and @K1Y any reason not to replace YPTA with a slippery synthetic gut like Goen OG Sheep or Babolat Syn Gut? Wouldnt this just soften the bed up even more?

Multiester Combinations:
1.35mm HDX Tour or 1.35mm HDMX in the mains with YPTA or Cream crosses.
1.33mm/1.38mm Triax in the mains with YPTA or Cream crosses.

Multifilaments

1.30mm MF, PPC, X1 or NXT in the mains with Velocity Crosses.
1.40 PPC with Cream crosses.
 

K1Y

Professional
last question... I love this thread @g4driver and @K1Y any reason not to replace YPTA with a slippery synthetic gut like Goen OG Sheep or Babolat Syn Gut? Wouldnt this just soften the bed up even more?

Multiester Combinations:
1.35mm HDX Tour or 1.35mm HDMX in the mains with YPTA or Cream crosses.
1.33mm/1.38mm Triax in the mains with YPTA or Cream crosses.

Multifilaments

1.30mm MF, PPC, X1 or NXT in the mains with Velocity Crosses.
1.40 PPC with Cream crosses.
I think syn gut is softer yes but thats not from experience. Just the knowledge that syn gut should be softer than any string that has some poly in it. only reason I can think of is that a syn gut gives less durability and less spin and more power(extra power good or bad depends on preference). I learned alot from this thread but because I'm now learning to string myself I'm trying cheap comfortable combinations that are inspired by this thread. I'm using/testing soft poly main with velocity cross and shaped poly main with syn gut cross. Both give me all the extra power and comfort I was looking for. syn gut crosses work for me. But if you need more durability and spin I think cream and ypta would be better perhaps just because those are some type of poly. I dont need them so far, but if I had to pay for labor I would consider it more.

keeping poly in the main and soften it up with syngut or multi in cross was enough for me to play without TE or GE pain. The thread is amazing to navigate through options what would be next step or option in comfort or durability but in the end always just test first for yourself.
 
Last edited:

g4driver

Legend
last question... I love this thread @g4driver and @K1Y any reason not to replace YPTA with a slippery synthetic gut like Goen OG Sheep or Babolat Syn Gut? Wouldnt this just soften the bed up even more?

I find those soft polys play better than syn gut crosses as they are slicker than syn gut.

I played with syn gut for 30+ years and like that these Multiesters break around the 18-20 hour mark for most of my clients who use them.

If a client can't break a 1.35mm multiester like RPX,HDMX, or 1.38mm Triax or NXT Control in 18-20 hours, other multis like MF/Velocity or X1/Velocity work well for them. The Multiesters are pretty much used for players who break traditional multis or syn gut in less 12-15 hours
 

mkedda

Rookie
I just broke a hybrid of Volkl V Torque Tour 16G and Monogut zx 16. 2 hours total and one of those was doubles.
I am beginning to wonder if I should even bother with some of the multiesters.
 
Last edited:

g4driver

Legend
Monogut ZX is a brittle string for stringers.. it breaks easily even for hand offs.

I certainly wouldn't compare it to any other string. If you want to use Monogut Zx check out the thread "in praise of kelvar / zx"
 

g4driver

Legend
I just broke a hybrid of Volkl V Torque Tour 16G and Monogut zx 16. 2 hours total and one of those was doubles.
I am beginning to wonder if I should even bother with some of the multiesters.

Did the Monogut ZX Break? That would be my guess.
q: how quickly do you break 1.30mm Volkl Torque Tour with a smooth poly cross or a full bed of it?

the reason I ask is read this first post of this thread. The subject of this thread broke 1.30mm HG mains with 1.25mm Head Hawk Crosses for two years in 12 hours like clockwork. He gets 13+Hours out of Triax and I have a picture of one frame with 5 mains broken with one of his swings. A OHBH.

people can break 1.35mm Natural Gut in 15 mins if a stringer ties off a poly cross on a gut main and the player shanks a ball on the knot.
 

KimchitheCat

New User
What kind of arm issue do you have cause it could also be the racket being too stiff/ not stiff enough or even being too heavy
 

cjviva

New User
Has anyone tried substituting lynx touch in the crosses? From the description looks like another round slick poly with elastomer, but 2/3 of the price of YPTA in reels (150 vs 100).
 

cjviva

New User
Then I guess it’s probably the same price category. Cream and gw didn’t feel as good as ypta for me but I do wish ypta had better tension maintenance. Guess just need to try out lynx touch and report back.
 

g4driver

Legend
Then I guess it’s probably the same price category. Cream and gw didn’t feel as good as ypta for me but I do wish ypta had better tension maintenance. Guess just need to try out lynx touch and report back.

The reason YPTA and Cream strings don't have great tension maintenance is the fact they are heavily rubber-infused. Ghostwire holds tension better than YPTA and Cream but is also stiffer and a bit less arm friendly.
 

mkedda

Rookie
Did the Monogut ZX Break? That would be my guess.
q: how quickly do you break 1.30mm Volkl Torque Tour with a smooth poly cross or a full bed of it?

the reason I ask is read this first post of this thread. The subject of this thread broke 1.30mm HG mains with 1.25mm Head Hawk Crosses for two years in 12 hours like clockwork. He gets 13+Hours out of Triax and I have a picture of one frame with 5 mains broken with one of his swings. A OHBH.

people can break 1.35mm Natural Gut in 15 mins if a stringer ties off a poly cross on a gut main and the player shanks a ball on the knot.

Monogut did not break.
Mains broke, center of the racket. My stringer said, "yeah, that was a solid, non frame pop"
 

g4driver

Legend
Monogut did not break.
Mains broke, center of the racket. My stringer said, "yeah, that was a solid, non frame pop"

If you're breaking the mains of V Torque Tour 1.30mm in less than two hours, might I suggest 1.38mm Lux Alu Power or 1.30mm Hyper G as those work for Division 1 Tennis players at Pac 12, SEC, Big 12, and ACC schools?

I've got a 27-year-old 5.5C rated USTA guy picking up a reel of Alu Power 1.38mm this afternoon. He gets 12-14 hours out of it in a Wilson PS 97 v13 (16x19) but he breaks 1.25mm Alu Power in less than 2 hours in the same frame. That gives anyone reading this a very clear picture of his level of play.

Here's how I would describe him to a reader:

5.5C 27-year-old USTA Computer Rated and former Divison 1 player, using a 16x19 Wilson Pro Staff v13 frame (16x19 pattern) who breaks 1.25mm Alu Power in less than two hours in that PS97v13. Yet the same player gets 14-16 hours out of the same string (Alu Power) in the thicker 1.38mm gauge in the same PS97v13 frame.

Not sure what frame and string pattern your using but that helps everyone get a clearer picture. Not knowing your frame leaves out a massive piece of the puzzle.
 

g4driver

Legend
@mkedda

if you are using a 16x19 frame and breaking a 1.25mm poly string in 2 hours, I would suggest looking at 18x19 frames or 18x20 frames with low a sub 63 RA. If you have TE or GE (and I suspect you might have one or the other as you are posting in this thread), using a flexible frame with a denser pattern and softer strings is going to save your elbow. Not sure what frame you are using but breaking 1.25 Volkl V-Torque Tour in a couple of hours indicates you generate quite a bit of RHS if you are using a 16x19 frame.
 

mkedda

Rookie
I use a head speed mp 16x19 and i love the frame. not ready to move to 18x19 because spin especially on the FH and Serve are my major weapons.
I am going to get started with the hybrids this week as my USTA team qualified for Nationals in october and I want to have 2 rackets hopefully last between 4 and (ideally 6) matches.

@g4driver, which should i start with first HDX, Triax or RPX / YPTA crosses for max spin and comfort?
 
Last edited:

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Where is the location of the Nationals? Temperature, elevation and humidity have an effect on what ref tension to use. It is not a good idea to set up your racquets for home courts when you may be playing at lower or higher temperatures, etc.
 

mkedda

Rookie
Where is the location of the Nationals? Temperature, elevation and humidity have an effect on what ref tension to use. It is not a good idea to set up your racquets for home courts when you may be playing at lower or higher temperatures, etc.
Oklahoma City
 

mkedda

Rookie
I played with RPX / Cream crosses today. Broke the RPX mains on a solid return of server after 71 minutes. Gonna give the setup another try to be sure it wasnt a freak incident.
 

g4driver

Legend
I played with RPX / Cream crosses today. Broke the RPX mains on a solid return of server after 71 minutes. Gonna give the setup another try to be sure it wasnt a freak incident.

1:35mm RPX ?

PPC comes in 1.40mm and Ashaway makes a 1.65mm multi

Ashaway SuperCut 14 1.65mm Real Tennis 200M Reel
 

insomniagas

New User
Very informative thread!

Just snapped a full bed of Triax that felt pretty good. What the advantages and disadvantages do you think I would get if I strung Triax in the mains with Isocream in the crosses? I would enjoy more spin potential if it offered that at the cost of the strings breaking a little sooner. Trying to decide if I should keep running full bed or hybrid. Also does Triax play much different from RPX or HDMX, it's certainly more expensive

Thanks!
 

mkedda

Rookie
Triax 1.38mm
Full Bed. Mixed 8.0 dubs.
Two matches.
<2 hours before it popped!
center string, opposing 4.5 lady opponent, "can't believe you are breaking a string on my serve"
 

Psi7

Rookie
Came back to this topic and noticed i was about to ask same questions as @mkedda is asking :)

@g4driver i went for Head Speed Mp 22 switch. Cutting it short, maybe not just racquet but also working with my shoulder blade helped a lot and i have significant improvement with my elbow. Was told it was nothing with elbow, just that blade anyway…

i also switched string to yonex poly tour pro 1.25. Really like it but breaking it now in just above 2 hours and that is too fast. I am thinking about going 1.3 but for now i am testing hybrid of blast 1.25 on mains and ptp 1.25 on crosses. Doing it because at this moment its fine setup and i still haveover 100m of blast reel.

just hoping i can get closer to 4 hours and i doubt this will happen as most likely it will break around 3h mark.

if that happens, do you think its worth checking anything else, maybe from head lineup like lynx tour or maybe that yonex spin or i should give up and go with one of the above(blast/lynx tour/yonex spin) on the mains but move to 1.3? Of course i assume crosses with ptp would have to go 1.3 as well
 

mctennis

Legend
Yes, thanks for the suggestions but will do strings after racquet change as i am about to test those in upcoming 2 weeks.

Based on what you said and what i read i decided to change my order and for now skip testing ezone 98 and vcore pro 100. Both are at 64 and 63 rdc and elbow pain is priority here so i will get vcore pro 97 and 97 d for first week. 60 and 61 rdc, both 7pts HL.

will getmy current string setup on both and will see how my elbow is after two days straight sessions and hopefully it will make difference… Then my local shop will have speed mp available, 16x19 version, Not 18x20 pro one. Will compare it to that vcore pro 97 And then move on to either checking pro version as well or no. Of course assuming pain is gone or at least i notice huge difference

dont see point in testing ezone first as i will get used to every racquet but i will sacrifice everything for no more elbow pain. If i keep getting pain with vcore pro 97 then i will surely have it with ezone as well.

Its probably deeper than just racquet change too. I am quite sure its really hurting me and i am at the point that for the weekend tournament i consider getting demo instead of playing with my current one(even with worse result) but its hard for me to imagine that pain will go away just like that.

one thing is racquet, but the other thing is probaby mess in that elbow too. I played yesterday my match and it was all good. Today i went on court just to play with my wife( that i learn how to play) sojust chill, but i did serve like half of the basket maybe showing her the move and my had such pain that i didint want to hold racquet at the end(first time had that bit of a pain after switching from blast to ptp) . Ice at home fixed it but man i hate it so much. Will have few ultrasounds treatment soon and will read about PRP injection as well. Might do MRI too just in case. Will definitely do if i keep getting pain next week with vcore pro 97

but fingers crossed for a fix without that and jackpot hit with less stiff racquet
If you do the PRP injections let us know how that goes for you. I know the price of that is quite expensive. At least around here it is.
 

Psi7

Rookie
If you do the PRP injections let us know how that goes for you. I know the price of that is quite expensive. At least around here it is.

Hey. I wont do the prp injections as i was told by a good orthopedist that in my case it wont be worth.

He told me(before i did scanning for both arm and elbow) that prp is good if you have clear GE or TE and that they have to do it exactly into pain area, like a point. In my case it only looked like GE but he told me that it wont probably make a difference and also that it will be extremeley expansive as normally you need to do like 2-3-4 of those.

That was before i was diagnosed with that shoulder blade problem and not elbow itself. Was told elbow is fine and all the pain was coming through arm from weak and bad working blade and the main pain was just xoming out in elbow, thats why i thought its GE.

as mentioned in my past i’ve done few things and cant be sure what helped most(probably all). I bought 5 sessions of this ultrasounds but only went to 3 directed at the elbow and even thought it looked like it worked at that time as i felt this pain in the muscles during few mins of session but if that wasnt GE then it probably didint matter much.

i changed racquet to speed mp 22 from aero, i started doing excersises on the blade(posted in my golfers elbow post in racquets section) i am also using increased grip right now.Stayed at nr 3 but using wilson sensation 0.4 without overlapping first and then normal grip 0.6 pro tacky or supergrap. Will also try 0.5 soon instead of 0.4 as first one but thats just minor thing. Definitely like grip better but 4+overgrip would be too much for the level i play.

so far there is massive improvement
 

mctennis

Legend
Hey. I wont do the prp injections as i was told by a good orthopedist that in my case it wont be worth.

He told me(before i did scanning for both arm and elbow) that prp is good if you have clear GE or TE and that they have to do it exactly into pain area, like a point. In my case it only looked like GE but he told me that it wont probably make a difference and also that it will be extremeley expansive as normally you need to do like 2-3-4 of those.

That was before i was diagnosed with that shoulder blade problem and not elbow itself. Was told elbow is fine and all the pain was coming through arm from weak and bad working blade and the main pain was just xoming out in elbow, thats why i thought its GE.

as mentioned in my past i’ve done few things and cant be sure what helped most(probably all). I bought 5 sessions of this ultrasounds but only went to 3 directed at the elbow and even thought it looked like it worked at that time as i felt this pain in the muscles during few mins of session but if that wasnt GE then it probably didint matter much.

i changed racquet to speed mp 22 from aero, i started doing excersises on the blade(posted in my golfers elbow post in racquets section) i am also using increased grip right now.Stayed at nr 3 but using wilson sensation 0.4 without overlapping first and then normal grip 0.6 pro tacky or supergrap. Will also try 0.5 soon instead of 0.4 as first one but thats just minor thing. Definitely like grip better but 4+overgrip would be too much for the level i play.

so far there is massive improvement
Great to hear that you are doing better.
 

Jouke

Professional
Came back to this topic and noticed i was about to ask same questions as @mkedda is asking :)

@g4driver i went for Head Speed Mp 22 switch. Cutting it short, maybe not just racquet but also working with my shoulder blade helped a lot and i have significant improvement with my elbow. Was told it was nothing with elbow, just that blade anyway…

i also switched string to yonex poly tour pro 1.25. Really like it but breaking it now in just above 2 hours and that is too fast. I am thinking about going 1.3 but for now i am testing hybrid of blast 1.25 on mains and ptp 1.25 on crosses. Doing it because at this moment its fine setup and i still haveover 100m of blast reel.

just hoping i can get closer to 4 hours and i doubt this will happen as most likely it will break around 3h mark.

if that happens, do you think its worth checking anything else, maybe from head lineup like lynx tour or maybe that yonex spin or i should give up and go with one of the above(blast/lynx tour/yonex spin) on the mains but move to 1.3? Of course i assume crosses with ptp would have to go 1.3 as well
This doenst really have anything to do with what this topic is about. I think @g4driver mentions quite a few very good options for people with arm problems! RPM Blast not really being one of them ;).
 

PRChicago

New User
Seems this thread has been going on for some time. I've used Triax and felt it played quite well and an excellent option for poly users (control and spin) needing to get away from poly due to arm soreness. I did feel it felt and sounded a bit odd. I tried once to hybrid with Triax as the main and a round poly as the cross for a more controlled feel. It played great but it very quickly (like in a week - 2-3 hrs of play) broke as the poly sliced the Triax as the Triax moved along the cross. I expect that would happen with any multi on the main so I'm surprised so many people do this. When I put the Triax on the cross, that certainly lasts longer. I just need to live with the fraying and it played more like the poly. Just for reference, I never break poly strings (at least not since I became a better player). I do break multis in a couple weeks. Is there some secret to hybrids with a multi on the main or is it only done by people who 1) don't hit with much spin and 2) don't mind restringing really often ?
 

g4driver

Legend
Seems this thread has been going on for some time. I've used Triax and felt it played quite well and an excellent option for poly users (control and spin) needing to get away from poly due to arm soreness. I did feel it felt and sounded a bit odd. I tried once to hybrid with Triax as the main and a round poly as the cross for a more controlled feel. It played great but it very quickly (like in a week - 2-3 hrs of play) broke as the poly sliced the Triax as the Triax moved along the cross. I expect that would happen with any multi on the main so I'm surprised so many people do this. When I put the Triax on the cross, that certainly lasts longer. I just need to live with the fraying and it played more like the poly. Just for reference, I never break poly strings (at least not since I became a better player). I do break multis in a couple weeks. Is there some secret to hybrids with a multi on the main or is it only done by people who 1) don't hit with much spin and 2) don't mind restringing really often ?

Will Shelley uses 1.38mm Triax / 1.25mm YPTA crosses which last him longer than a bed of HG 1.30mm / Head Hawk crosses.

I have never seen another 4.5 or 5.0 hit more spin than him and I know and string for a lot of 4.5 guys.

He broke 1.30mm Hyper G mains in 12 hours for two years as I have noted in this thread previously.

What gauge Triax are you using ? And what poly? when making posts about strings particular breaking them, listing the gauge and the name of the string helps the reader build a better picture.
 
Last edited:

PRChicago

New User
I used 16g Triax and either Ghostwire at 122 or it could have been OGSM syn gut at similar gauge. I had it strung at about 50 or so in tension on a Head Speed MP. I actually feel the coating on the Technifibre multis really doesn't want to be sliding but are actually designed to hold in place. The combo of slick poly and such string isn't really what they intended to maintain durability. I feel a full bed of Triax isn't sliding with snapback. It's mostly being softly held in place.
 

g4driver

Legend
I used 16g Triax and either Ghostwire at 122 or it could have been OGSM syn gut at similar gauge. I had it strung at about 50 or so in tension on a Head Speed MP. I actually feel the coating on the Technifibre multis really doesn't want to be sliding but are actually designed to hold in place. The combo of slick poly and such string isn't really what they intended to maintain durability. I feel a full bed of Triax isn't sliding with snapback. It's mostly being softly held in place.

go up to 1.38mm and put YPTA or Ghostwire 1.27 In the crosses and see how long it last. If you want a slicker If you want an even slicker cross, use Yonex Poly Tour Fire (YPTF) 1.30mm

Don't use a full bed of Triax or Triax / Syn gut to avoid a premature locked string bed. Neither of those options are going to outlast Triax / smooth poly cross. Syn Gut isn't slick and neither is Triax.

multis in general aren't considered slick with notable exceptions of some that put slick coatings on their strings like Head Velocity.
 
Top