Kobayashi Maru String Scenario

Trip

Legend
@PRChicago - With all due respect, to say Tecnifibre didn't intend for Triax (or RPX) to be hybrided in such a way as has been mentioned in this thread countless times (most with great success) is purely speculative, and that's being generous. Pair Triax in the mains with a super-slick and soft cross like IsoSpeed Cream and, aside from high levels of control and easier access to spin, you'll get full snapback for the vast majority of the string bed life and the string bed won't lock. The combo also results in nice dwell time and pocketing.

As if this thread needed any more anecdotal evidence, I personally just strung for and converted a hitting partner to RPX 1.30 / Cream 1.28 (in a stiff and crispy G360 Radical MP), who was previously playing Babolat Addixion full bed, and not only is he a big fan of the extra control and spin he gets out of the setup, he loves the fact that the string has never needed adjusting, nor has it ever locked on him -- unlike full-bed Addixion. So say what you will, but I urge you revisit the hybrid -- with the proper cross -- just to see for yourself what the possibilities can be.
 
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g4driver

Legend
@Trip

WS would agree with you..

He broke the mains of 1.30mm HG / Head Hawk 1.25mm for two plus year every 12 hours like clockwork. Yet he gets 12-13 hours out of 1.38mm Triax / YPTA.

Having playing with a full bed of Triax, and the Triax / YPTA hybrid, I have no doubt which setup last longer. The full bed of Triax locks and breaks faster.
 

PRChicago

New User
Seems like there is great endorsement for this combo. Will have to give it another try. May try YPTA or Cream instead of GW. I don't love the feel of Ghostwire though it does maintain tension extremely well and is slick as reported.
 

Trip

Legend
@PRChicago - As mostly slick as Ghostwire is, I'd say Cream is even 10-15% more slippery than that (right up there with the slickest polys). And typically yes, I find that most (myself included) will string Cream/YPTA crosses about 2-3 pounds lower than the RPX/Triax mains. This allows even more freedom for Triax/RPX to snap out and snap back, and of course also lowers overall string bed tension, whose value will usually be a rough average of the main and cross reference tensions. So keep that in mind when targeting an overall string bed tension/stiffness.

In the example I referenced in the previous reply, I strung my friend's Head G360 Radical MP (98" with a tight 16x19 pattern) with RPX/Cream at 57/55 on a lockout crank machine, which would be like 54/52 or 53/51 on an electronic constant-pull machine (that most any pro shop would have -- Wilson Bairado, etc.). He said it felt just about perfect, even after the initial "break-in" of RPX (Triax) and Cream/YPTA, which tend to collectively drop 15-20% tension after the first couple hitting sessions.

Hope that helps!
 
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g4driver

Legend
I would add that Tecnifibre RPX 1.35 is a much better value than Triax 1.38mm when buying in individual packs. But if you are buying Triax 1.38mm or 1.33mm. or HDMX 1.35mm or 1.30mm, in reels at a discount, you can get 18' of Triax or 18' of HDMX down to the same price as RPX or even lower depending on the price of the reel of Triax/HDMX.

Yonex Poly Tour Fire (YPTF) is stiffer than Ghostwire and seems even slicker to me. It only comes in red, which is an issue for some clients. For me personally, Ghostwire as a cross hits all the targets I like: holds tension very well for a softer copoly, not as stiff as YPTF, and the price point is outstanding. For others, Cream and YPTA hit the same targets including lower price points if you understand you have to do some homework to get YPTA, YPTF and Element at less than MSRP prices in the US.

I string the crosses of (YPTA, Cream, GW, YPTF, and Element) two pounds lower than a Multiesyter main unless specifically requested to string at a given tension.
 

spanky

New User
All, thanks in advance for your help...

Have started return to play after 10 months following a significant wrist injury (torn SL) + two reconstruction surgeries - approx 6 weeks in. Have switched from PS97v13 to the v7/v8 Blade (lower RA and smaller grip size per my coach/surgeon) and started off with YPTP 115 (yellow and blue) @52M/48X (because that was in the racket I borrowed with a smaller size 2 grip). This seems to be very comfortable for groundstrokes, but as I started working on volleys and serving this week I find it a bit stiff for these shots. Before the injury my goto was GW 127 or YPTP Crosses @52 / VS GUT16 @56 or FB Head Velocity (blue) at 56M/52X - both of which would last me ~15/20Hrs before breaking. I'm tempted to go back to the GW/Gut hybrid at a lower tension. Level was 4.0 - 4.5, but formerly (25 yrs ago) 5.5+ college player. Currently maybe 3.5 - but more concerned about being able to play socially without pain than competition at this point. Thoughts? I like the YPTP 115, on groundstrokes (can't miss!) but want something more comfortable for serve / volley. Not concerned about control, I feel like I can manage even FB gut if I have to (one of my old PSv13s is FB VS16, but grip is too big - and its too high SW for me after the injury). Maybe I should just bite the bullet and go FB gut, but I do recall loving the extra control from the hybrid.

Appreciate any advice.

cheers!
 

Trip

Legend
@spanky - Welcome back, hope rehab continues to go well.

First off, I find it a bit puzzling that you say the PS97 v13 is too high a swing weight (TW lists it at 321) when the the Blade v7 is 328, so I'm presuming you're talking about the much-reduced Blade v8 (with a TW-listed 317 swing weight)...? Regardless, the Blade has a lot more head-heavy balance than the PS97, so, aside from a bit lower Hz vibration in the handle, I'm not sure how that's going to be much better for your wrist, motion-wise, unless the weighting of the Blade allows you to keep a more relaxed, less-stressed wrist throughout most of your strokes. If that's the case, then great I guess. If not, and/or if you wanted a more PS97-like balance and feel but with a softer layup and less handle vibration, I'd try the 2021 Yonex VCore Pro 97 310 (with 1g of lead at 10 & 2 each for stability). The VCP97 310 is basically Yonex's PS97, but softer and more buttery, very whippy and usually wrist friendly.

Presuming the frame situation is good enough and you only want to focus on strings, I would go with the most shock-absorbent string bed that still gives you requisite performance. If that's GW/Gut then great, although I would put the Gut in the mains and GW in the crosses, as that combo will be even softer, and allow the Gut to slide on the GW crosses longer and more freely than I would presume you'd see if the hybrid were flipped. If you wanted to go even softer, you might try Gut mains with IsoSpeed Cream in the crosses, which would offer more pocketing and also more snapback.

Let me know what you think of some/all of that, and we can address further.
 

Jouke

Professional
All, thanks in advance for your help...

Have started return to play after 10 months following a significant wrist injury (torn SL) + two reconstruction surgeries - approx 6 weeks in. Have switched from PS97v13 to the v7/v8 Blade (lower RA and smaller grip size per my coach/surgeon) and started off with YPTP 115 (yellow and blue) @52M/48X (because that was in the racket I borrowed with a smaller size 2 grip). This seems to be very comfortable for groundstrokes, but as I started working on volleys and serving this week I find it a bit stiff for these shots. Before the injury my goto was GW 127 or YPTP Crosses @52 / VS GUT16 @56 or FB Head Velocity (blue) at 56M/52X - both of which would last me ~15/20Hrs before breaking. I'm tempted to go back to the GW/Gut hybrid at a lower tension. Level was 4.0 - 4.5, but formerly (25 yrs ago) 5.5+ college player. Currently maybe 3.5 - but more concerned about being able to play socially without pain than competition at this point. Thoughts? I like the YPTP 115, on groundstrokes (can't miss!) but want something more comfortable for serve / volley. Not concerned about control, I feel like I can manage even FB gut if I have to (one of my old PSv13s is FB VS16, but grip is too big - and its too high SW for me after the injury). Maybe I should just bite the bullet and go FB gut, but I do recall loving the extra control from the hybrid.

Appreciate any advice.

cheers!
Is you surgeon letting you play after such an operation? Is there no chance of it rerupturing when playing tennis? How did you tear the SL ligament?
 

spanky

New User
Thank you for the follow up folks - some answers:

On my injury - it did occur on a tennis court, but was a freak accident. Opposing player lost his racket on an overhead in doubles (sweaty palm) an it flew across the net and hit me, torqueing my wrist oddly, and snapping the SL traumatically (though not a fall). It was a complete (Grade 3) tear.

On my operation(s) and recovery (because it may be interesting for others) - the second surgery - a modified Brunelli procedure - was in early April, and I was immobilized for 6 weeks post-op - then began a supervised physical therapy program to regain range of motion and strength with the objective of returning to my normal activities, and tennis if possible. After 3 months of hard work in the PT room and gym, and positive imaging + strength tests + flexibility tests, my surgeon and PT advised me to try and start with a racket, first with static ball drills and a coach using my kids' racquets, and progressing to heavier rackets, wall drills, and half/full-court as able and comfortable. I have been returning gradually now for 6 weeks, under the close supervision of both my Surgeon, PT, and a local Coach. Testing strength at least every other week and imaging at regular intervals to ensure I am not doing any new damage as I adapt to the new architecture of my wrist. The good news is that I am pain free, though I do have significantly less range of motion than I used to. I still have to follow a dedicated schedule, warm up my hand, and ice it carefully after every practice session (no more than a few times a week).

One thing I discovered with my coach's help is that post op, at least for now, I need a much smaller grip - size 2 (4 1/4) rather than size 4 (4 1/2) in order to decrease the tension in my wrist when hitting a forehand. So I borrowed his Gravity S, then a Blade v7 and a neighbor gave me a Blade v8 that he swapped for a Clash. The Gravity was too light and had too much vibration to be comfortable (with syngut strings). The Blades honestly feel identical to me, and since the v7 was strung with YPTP and was comfortable, I strung the v8 with it too, sort of guessing at the tensions. The Blades are noticeably less stiff than my Pro Staffs, and also significantly easier to swing - which could partly be the grip.

So back to my challenge - Friday I was given the go-ahead to start adding in volleys and serves - but only if it is comfortable - and while I don't have any pain from hitting these shots, the stringbed feels noticeably stiffer than I would like on both shots. This likely will change as I continue to get stronger - but I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone has any comments on what has worked for them coming back from an injury while in the re-learning / strengthening phase. If I go hybrid, I will def go Gut Mains and, as that was always better for me as a player - and I do think its softer. Have not tried Isospeed Cream as a cross - would appreciate any comments relative to GW or any other suggestions.

Hope that helps.
 

Jouke

Professional
Thank you for the follow up folks - some answers:

On my injury - it did occur on a tennis court, but was a freak accident. Opposing player lost his racket on an overhead in doubles (sweaty palm) an it flew across the net and hit me, torqueing my wrist oddly, and snapping the SL traumatically (though not a fall). It was a complete (Grade 3) tear.

On my operation(s) and recovery (because it may be interesting for others) - the second surgery - a modified Brunelli procedure - was in early April, and I was immobilized for 6 weeks post-op - then began a supervised physical therapy program to regain range of motion and strength with the objective of returning to my normal activities, and tennis if possible. After 3 months of hard work in the PT room and gym, and positive imaging + strength tests + flexibility tests, my surgeon and PT advised me to try and start with a racket, first with static ball drills and a coach using my kids' racquets, and progressing to heavier rackets, wall drills, and half/full-court as able and comfortable. I have been returning gradually now for 6 weeks, under the close supervision of both my Surgeon, PT, and a local Coach. Testing strength at least every other week and imaging at regular intervals to ensure I am not doing any new damage as I adapt to the new architecture of my wrist. The good news is that I am pain free, though I do have significantly less range of motion than I used to. I still have to follow a dedicated schedule, warm up my hand, and ice it carefully after every practice session (no more than a few times a week).

One thing I discovered with my coach's help is that post op, at least for now, I need a much smaller grip - size 2 (4 1/4) rather than size 4 (4 1/2) in order to decrease the tension in my wrist when hitting a forehand. So I borrowed his Gravity S, then a Blade v7 and a neighbor gave me a Blade v8 that he swapped for a Clash. The Gravity was too light and had too much vibration to be comfortable (with syngut strings). The Blades honestly feel identical to me, and since the v7 was strung with YPTP and was comfortable, I strung the v8 with it too, sort of guessing at the tensions. The Blades are noticeably less stiff than my Pro Staffs, and also significantly easier to swing - which could partly be the grip.

So back to my challenge - Friday I was given the go-ahead to start adding in volleys and serves - but only if it is comfortable - and while I don't have any pain from hitting these shots, the stringbed feels noticeably stiffer than I would like on both shots. This likely will change as I continue to get stronger - but I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone has any comments on what has worked for them coming back from an injury while in the re-learning / strengthening phase. If I go hybrid, I will def go Gut Mains and, as that was always better for me as a player - and I do think its softer. Have not tried Isospeed Cream as a cross - would appreciate any comments relative to GW or any other suggestions.

Hope that helps.
Holy moly! That really was a freak accident! I have never heard that before! I have heard of radio ulnar ligament tearing trough twist, but scaphoid-lunate ligament rupture like this is crazy, its a pretty strong ligament. How long dis it take doctors to discover? Thanks for the write up! My best tennispartner ruptured his sl ligament a year ago (although he doesnt know how, he had mild wrist pain and had x rays and an mri) He said he was never allowed to play tennis again.

I would go Triax/Cream if playing outdoors/in the rain/moist. Otherwise gut/cream
 

TennisJrDad

Professional
Cream is very forgiving and for a soft string holds tension reasonably well.

Yonex Poly Tour Air is softer, but tension maintenance is definitely not one of its strengths.

Other possibilities for soft monofilament strings:

Signum Pro Outbreak
Luxilon Element (mono-multi technology - Thank you @Automatix )
Babolat RPM Soft

GW is a great string, and while soft, is not as soft as cream, YPTA, or SPO


FYI


cnCvpQ.jpg





Thank you for the follow up folks - some answers:

On my injury - it did occur on a tennis court, but was a freak accident. Opposing player lost his racket on an overhead in doubles (sweaty palm) an it flew across the net and hit me, torqueing my wrist oddly, and snapping the SL traumatically (though not a fall). It was a complete (Grade 3) tear.

On my operation(s) and recovery (because it may be interesting for others) - the second surgery - a modified Brunelli procedure - was in early April, and I was immobilized for 6 weeks post-op - then began a supervised physical therapy program to regain range of motion and strength with the objective of returning to my normal activities, and tennis if possible. After 3 months of hard work in the PT room and gym, and positive imaging + strength tests + flexibility tests, my surgeon and PT advised me to try and start with a racket, first with static ball drills and a coach using my kids' racquets, and progressing to heavier rackets, wall drills, and half/full-court as able and comfortable. I have been returning gradually now for 6 weeks, under the close supervision of both my Surgeon, PT, and a local Coach. Testing strength at least every other week and imaging at regular intervals to ensure I am not doing any new damage as I adapt to the new architecture of my wrist. The good news is that I am pain free, though I do have significantly less range of motion than I used to. I still have to follow a dedicated schedule, warm up my hand, and ice it carefully after every practice session (no more than a few times a week).

One thing I discovered with my coach's help is that post op, at least for now, I need a much smaller grip - size 2 (4 1/4) rather than size 4 (4 1/2) in order to decrease the tension in my wrist when hitting a forehand. So I borrowed his Gravity S, then a Blade v7 and a neighbor gave me a Blade v8 that he swapped for a Clash. The Gravity was too light and had too much vibration to be comfortable (with syngut strings). The Blades honestly feel identical to me, and since the v7 was strung with YPTP and was comfortable, I strung the v8 with it too, sort of guessing at the tensions. The Blades are noticeably less stiff than my Pro Staffs, and also significantly easier to swing - which could partly be the grip.

So back to my challenge - Friday I was given the go-ahead to start adding in volleys and serves - but only if it is comfortable - and while I don't have any pain from hitting these shots, the stringbed feels noticeably stiffer than I would like on both shots. This likely will change as I continue to get stronger - but I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone has any comments on what has worked for them coming back from an injury while in the re-learning / strengthening phase. If I go hybrid, I will def go Gut Mains and, as that was always better for me as a player - and I do think its softer. Have not tried Isospeed Cream as a cross - would appreciate any comments relative to GW or any other suggestions.

Hope that helps.
 
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Automatix

Legend
Cream is very forgiving and for a soft string holds tension reasonably well.

Yonex Poly Tour Air is softer, but tension maintenance is definitely not one of its strengths.

Other possibilities for soft monofilament strings:

Signum Pro Outbreak
Luxilon Element
Babolat RPM Soft

GW is a great string, and while soft, is not as soft as cream, YPTA, or SPO


FYI


cnCvpQ.jpg
Element isn't a monofilament. It has a construction Luxilon refers to as mono-multi technology which was used in M2 and M2 Plus strings.
Cross sections of the latter show what I'm referring to...
images
images
 

1HBHfanatic

Legend
Cream is very forgiving and for a soft string holds tension reasonably well.

Yonex Poly Tour Air is softer, but tension maintenance is definitely not one of its strengths.

Other possibilities for soft monofilament strings:

Signum Pro Outbreak
Luxilon Element (mono-multi technology - Thank you @Automatix )
Babolat RPM Soft

.............
-some additions to your list:
-head lynx
-head.lynx.TOUCH
 

BPlain

Professional
Let me start by saying thank you for this thread as it's been immensely helpful in dealing with my golfer's elbow @g4driver.

My question relates to stiffness vs string composition. I'm currently playing GW 1.17 at 50lbs in the mains with T1 Triumph 1.25 multi in the crosses at 53 lbs. I'm enjoying this set up and it's lasted me about 4 hours so far in it's maiden voyage. I was also considering trying a full bed of T1 Triumph 1.30 multi just to be even more elbow friendly however T1 Triumph 1.30 has a higher stiffness rating (174) than both GW 1.17 (167) and T1 Triumph 1.25 (146). So while I'm guessing the answer to my question is that it's racket/user dependent, I'll ask it anyways...

Generally speaking, would a multi with a higher stiffness rating be more arm friendly than a poly/multi hybrid with a lower stiffness rating? Or does the fact that the higher stiffness rating string is a multi inherently make it more arm friendly than a low stiffness poly or poly/multi hybrid just on string composition differences alone?

My elbow says thank you in advance to anyone that can shed some more light here.
 

Automatix

Legend
@BPlain others will surely chime in but in my experience when the stiffness diferences aren't huge a multifilament will always be softer.
Ghostwire is great but I'm pretty confident that a thicker multi of stiffness higher than say 20-30 units will still feel a lot softer - mainly due to the deflection a multifilament construction gives in comparison to a monofilament one.
When you order that Triumph 1.30 and have a spare set of Ghostwire try fiddling around with them in your hands. You'll see how they act very differently the multifilament feeling softer, less springy.
 

Bagumbawalla

Talk Tennis Guru
I am going to suggest he use the most arm-friendly set up from all the above suggestions,
and then add some string-saver. Worth a shot.
 

spanky

New User
Holy moly! That really was a freak accident! I have never heard that before! I have heard of radio ulnar ligament tearing trough twist, but scaphoid-lunate ligament rupture like this is crazy, its a pretty strong ligament. How long dis it take doctors to discover? Thanks for the write up! My best tennispartner ruptured his sl ligament a year ago (although he doesnt know how, he had mild wrist pain and had x rays and an mri) He said he was never allowed to play tennis again.

I would go Triax/Cream if playing outdoors/in the rain/moist. Otherwise gut/cream

My surgeon identified the tear immediately on examination and imaging (4 days after it happened) and I had surgery the following week to try and sew it back together. After that recovery process (which involved having pins placed to keep it stable while healing) - the repair was insufficient to stabilize the joint and I had to do the tendon-graph reconstruction. Tell your friend that it very much is possible to recover from an SL injury (mine was about as bad as it gets) - but it won't be a quick or painless process for sure.

I think you all have convinced me to go for the Cream(X)/Gut(M) solution - so then what tensions would folks recommend on this setup? Reminder that 48X/52M on YPTA is comfortable for me on the groundies.
 

Trip

Legend
@spanky - For Gut/Cream, if no prestretch is being done on the machine, I'd go 57/53 if it's a lockout crank, or 54/50 if it's a drop dropweight or electronic constant pull (eCP). If you do prestretch on the eCP, then I would do 10% prestretch on both mains and crosses and go 50/46.
 

g4driver

Legend
Let me start by saying thank you for this thread as it's been immensely helpful in dealing with my golfer's elbow @g4driver.

My question relates to stiffness vs string composition. I'm currently playing GW 1.17 at 50lbs in the mains with T1 Triumph 1.25 multi in the crosses at 53 lbs. I'm enjoying this set up and it's lasted me about 4 hours so far in it's maiden voyage. I was also considering trying a full bed of T1 Triumph 1.30 multi just to be even more elbow friendly however T1 Triumph 1.30 has a higher stiffness rating (174) than both GW 1.17 (167) and T1 Triumph 1.25 (146). So while I'm guessing the answer to my question is that it's racket/user dependent, I'll ask it anyways...

Generally speaking, would a multi with a higher stiffness rating be more arm friendly than a poly/multi hybrid with a lower stiffness rating? Or does the fact that the higher stiffness rating string is a multi inherently make it more arm friendly than a low stiffness poly or poly/multi hybrid just on string composition differences alone?

My elbow says thank you in advance to anyone that can shed some more light here.

@BPlain

if you can put a multi or multiester in the mains and a softer smooth copoly in the crosses and not break the mains within an acceptable time period that you are comfortable with (financially and physically) that setup willl be more comfortable than a poly main / multi cross AOTBE.

as a side note my elbow can't tell a difference between a full bed of multi or the same multi main / YPTA or Cream cross. Only when I get to stiffer poly crosses do I notice the change, but those setups are still soft to my elbow as a guy using Hyoer G Soft 1.25 mm / GW 1.22mm.
 

happyandbob

Legend
as a side note my elbow can't tell a difference between a full bed of multi or the same multi main / YPTA or Cream cross. Only when I get to stiffer poly crosses do I notice the change, but those setups are still soft to my elbow as a guy using Hyoer G Soft 1.25 mm / GW 1.22mm.

so you've switched from cyclone tour mains to HGS mains? Curious about your thoughts on the comparison between the two strings
 

g4driver

Legend
so you've switched from cyclone tour mains to HGS mains? Curious about your thoughts on the comparison between the two strings

switched from VCT 1.30mm full bed to HGS 1.25mm / GW 1.22mm after the HGS playtest.

VCT 1.30mmm has a much larger client list and as Covid kept many from traveling , I was stringing more frames than ever summer of 2020 to Jun 2021. I ran low on VCT once and decided I can hit with HGS/GW without any noticeable change in my on court results. Basically, I am simply not that good as a player to notice much of any of a difference. :(

VCT 1.30mm is less stiff than HGS/GW which is less stiff than Tier One Boost.

I can hit with VCT, HGS/GW or Tier One Boost interchangeably. If I hit with Boost, 4 days in a row, my elbow feels it. Right now, if I hit 4 days a month , it is a good month. I am away from home more than I want and not much tennis other than stringing.
 

PRChicago

New User
@PRChicago - As mostly slick as Ghostwire is, I'd say Cream is even 10-15% more slippery than that (right up there with the slickest polys). And typically yes, I find that most (myself included) will string Cream/YPTA crosses about 2-3 pounds lower than the RPX/Triax mains. This allows even more freedom for Triax/RPX to snap out and snap back, and of course also lowers overall string bed tension, whose value will usually be a rough average of the main and cross reference tensions. So keep that in mind when targeting an overall string bed tension/stiffness.

In the example I referenced in the previous reply, I strung my friend's Head G360 Radical MP (98" with a tight 16x19 pattern) with RPX/Cream at 57/55 on a lockout crank machine, which would be like 54/52 or 53/51 on an electronic constant-pull machine (that most any pro shop would have -- Wilson Bairado, etc.). He said it felt just about perfect, even after the initial "break-in" of RPX (Triax) and Cream/YPTA, which tend to collectively drop 15-20% tension after the first couple hitting sessions.

Hope that helps!

Hi @Trip @g4driver - My arm is not so sensitive that I need to have the multi (vs. on the cross) on the main and a very soft poly on the cross. Which would you expect would last longer ? Triax/RPX (or other) on the main or on the cross with a round slick poly on the opposite side ? Seems to be question of fray till in breaks with multi on the cross vs. saw off when on the main. I personally hate the fraying when it starts so would be happy to hear that Triax (or RPX or even HDMX) on the main can last better than on the cross. Thanks for your comments and in advance for your answers.
 

Jouke

Professional
IIRC @g4driver diagnoses this as a sign of a player being a flat hitter. However that's a spin pattern (18x16?) so it might have contributed to mains lasting longer.
How many hours?
I strung this up for a collegue of mine who suffers from elbow problems. Strung it on june 1st, so it lasted him almost 4 months of claycourt season, in a spin pattern Wilson Burn. Very very impressed! Well over 60 hours of play. Strung 23/22 kg. But he wants it a little tighter this time. 24/23,5kg
I guess the best for his elbow would be to also move to a slightly heavier lower Ra racket.

Want to thank @g4driver for this excellent topic and advice!
 

Automatix

Legend
I strung this up for a collegue of mine who suffers from elbow problems. Strung it on june 1st, so it lasted him almost 4 months of claycourt season, in a spin pattern Wilson Burn. Very very impressed! Well over 60 hours of play. Strung 23/22 kg. But he wants it a little tighter this time. 24/23,5kg
I guess the best for his elbow would be to also move to a slightly heavier lower Ra racket.

Want to thank @g4driver for this excellent topic and advice!
Indeed impressive. Especially on clay.
 

g4driver

Legend
Hi @Trip @g4driver - My arm is not so sensitive that I need to have the multi (vs. on the cross) on the main and a very soft poly on the cross. Which would you expect would last longer ? Triax/RPX (or other) on the main or on the cross with a round slick poly on the opposite side? Seems to be a question of fray till in breaks with multi on the cross vs. saw off when on the main. I personally hate the fraying when it starts so would be happy to hear that Triax (or RPX or even HDMX) on the main can last better than on the cross. Thanks for your comments and in advance for your answers.

Generally speaking a smooth poly main with Triax-RPX-HDMX cross is going to outlast the reverse setup of Triax-RPX-HDMX main/smooth poly cross for most players. A poly main will also feel slightly stiffer than putting the Triax/RPX/HDMX in the mains. These setups are so personal, I think players just have to take two packs of strings, cut them in half and try both setups to see what they prefer.

For my clients who always break a cross string in a full bed of a given multifilament full bed, they are well known for hitting flat compared to other players who break the main string of the same multifilament in a full bed. I have some clients who always break cross-strings. For these clients, I simply use a thicker string in the cross, including Triax 1.38mm for one 4.5 guy who uses VS Gut 1.30 mains / Triax 1.38mm crosses. Another 3.5 guy uses Cream 1.28mm mains and PPC 1.40mm crosses and yet he still breaks the crosses first. He tried PPC 1.40mm mains / Cream 1.28mm crosses, but prefers Cream mains PPC crosses.

From @Jouke post #274 you can see the Triax mains outlasted his client's Cream crosses.
 

PRChicago

New User
Generally speaking a smooth poly main with Triax-RPX-HDMX cross is going to outlast the reverse setup of Triax-RPX-HDMX main/smooth poly cross for most players. A poly main will also feel slightly stiffer than putting the Triax/RPX/HDMX in the mains. These setups are so personal, I think players just have to take two packs of strings, cut them in half and try both setups to see what they prefer.

For my clients who always break a cross string in a full bed of a given multifilament full bed, they are well known for hitting flat compared to other players who break the main string of the same multifilament in a full bed. I have some clients who always break cross-strings. For these clients, I simply use a thicker string in the cross, including Triax 1.38mm for one 4.5 guy who uses VS Gut 1.30 mains / Triax 1.38mm crosses. Another 3.5 guy uses Cream 1.28mm mains and PPC 1.40mm crosses and yet he still breaks the crosses first. He tried PPC 1.40mm mains / Cream 1.28mm crosses, but prefers Cream mains PPC crosses.

From @Jouke post #274 you can see the Triax mains outlasted his client's Cream crosses.
Thanks for the feedback. Let's say I want to go with Triax or RPX as one component of the hybrid. Any suggestion of a smooth, round, crisp, medium power (but not stiff/harsh) poly complement say crisper than PTA, Cream, GW ? I tried Revolve and was too dead to really complement Triax (kind of a mismatch). I also tried Hyper-G soft (which I like) but I think the square shape plus HGS rigidity really doesn't promote much trampoline or snapback at least with Triax.
 

BPlain

Professional
Generally speaking a smooth poly main with Triax-RPX-HDMX cross is going to outlast the reverse setup of Triax-RPX-HDMX main/smooth poly cross for most players. A poly main will also feel slightly stiffer than putting the Triax/RPX/HDMX in the mains. These setups are so personal, I think players just have to take two packs of strings, cut them in half and try both setups to see what they prefer.

For my clients who always break a cross string in a full bed of a given multifilament full bed, they are well known for hitting flat compared to other players who break the main string of the same multifilament in a full bed. I have some clients who always break cross-strings. For these clients, I simply use a thicker string in the cross, including Triax 1.38mm for one 4.5 guy who uses VS Gut 1.30 mains / Triax 1.38mm crosses. Another 3.5 guy uses Cream 1.28mm mains and PPC 1.40mm crosses and yet he still breaks the crosses first. He tried PPC 1.40mm mains / Cream 1.28mm crosses, but prefers Cream mains PPC crosses.

From @Jouke post #274 you can see the Triax mains outlasted his client's Cream crosses.

This what I'll end up doing if my elbow starts barks using GW 1.17 mains / Triumph 1.25 crosses. I really like this set up about 5 hours into the strings and they just started moving a bit last time out.
 

thecatch33

New User
switched from VCT 1.30mm full bed to HGS 1.25mm / GW 1.22mm after the HGS playtest.

VCT 1.30mmm has a much larger client list and as Covid kept many from traveling , I was stringing more frames than ever summer of 2020 to Jun 2021. I ran low on VCT once and decided I can hit with HGS/GW without any noticeable change in my on court results. Basically, I am simply not that good as a player to notice much of any of a difference. :(

VCT 1.30mm is less stiff than HGS/GW which is less stiff than Tier One Boost.

I can hit with VCT, HGS/GW or Tier One Boost interchangeably. If I hit with Boost, 4 days in a row, my elbow feels it. Right now, if I hit 4 days a month , it is a good month. I am away from home more than I want and not much tennis other than stringing.

May I ask what tensions you are using for VCT, HGS/GW, and Firewire Boost? I realize tensions are deeply personal, but I have thinking about giving VCT a try after using FW Boost for a while. I figure I should string it higher tension compared to Boost, but not sure how much higher and figured your tensions would set a decent differential baseline as I also want to try out HGS/GW later on down the line as well.
 
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spanky

New User
All - some follow up. I had GW 127 in hand, but Cream is on backorder, so I did a VS16/GW127 hybrid at 54M(gut)/50X(GW - pre-stretch). I like the results so far. It is *much* easier on my wrist, and shockingly spiny, far more than the PTP115 that I started back with. Serves and volleys are comfortable and I feel like this is a great setup to continue my recovery - playing 2x a week and strengthening in the gym.
 
Good to hear that the recovery is progressing smoothly. Sorry if I missed it earlier but what headsize/string pattern are you using, and what tension were you stringing full poly at? (Just trying to get a handle on string tensions for gut mains in a reverse hybrid.) Thanks, JMac
 

EggSalad

Hall of Fame
All - some follow up. I had GW 127 in hand, but Cream is on backorder, so I did a VS16/GW127 hybrid at 54M(gut)/50X(GW - pre-stretch). I like the results so far. It is *much* easier on my wrist, and shockingly spiny, far more than the PTP115 that I started back with. Serves and volleys are comfortable and I feel like this is a great setup to continue my recovery - playing 2x a week and strengthening in the gym.

That’s great that you are seeing good results. I have a few sets of cream if you need them.
 

spanky

New User
^^^ I'm currently playing with 16 x 19 blades (a v7 and a v8). The v8 is the one I strug up in Hybrid. I can't honestly tell the diff between the two rackets spec wise. The v7 is 327g with PTP 115 and the v8 is 324g with the VS/GW hybrid. Was stringing PTP 115 at 52M/48X.

Hope that answers your questions.
 

tobi9008

New User
While recovering from TE myself, was thinking of trying vs touch 16g / GW 1.27 (a combo mentioned in this thread) while currently using GW full bed in a clash.
I found changing to clash from blade 98 and sticking with poly a preferable solution instead of using multi or multi hybrids when trying to find the right combo for my arm. Some control seems to have to be sacrified in one way or another :D

Question:is the gut hybrid significantly more spin friendly than FB GW? Comfort upgrade for sure I guess.
 

spanky

New User
I definitely feel like the VS/GW hybrid is more spin friendly than the PTP115 full bed. The hybrid requires more focus - it's way more powerful. The PTP is ideal for me *except* on serve / volley. My wrist just isn't strong enough (yet?). I played sets today for the first time in a year - and lost handily - the hybrid enabled me to serve (and volley). I'll take the string setup that enables me to play points, even if I lose. I had a great time, and I *will* get better. I would probably have had more balls in the court with my v7 / PTP115 setup - but I would have retired after 3 or 4 service games!
 

tobi9008

New User
Why would it be more spin friendly? A somewhat rule of thumb is full poly > multi-poly hybrid in the spin department.
Yeah I agree, pretty clear result when testing that too. But I never played a gut hybrid in comparison to a multi hybrid with poly.
 
^^^ I'm currently playing with 16 x 19 blades (a v7 and a v8). The v8 is the one I strug up in Hybrid. I can't honestly tell the diff between the two rackets spec wise. The v7 is 327g with PTP 115 and the v8 is 324g with the VS/GW hybrid. Was stringing PTP 115 at 52M/48X.

Hope that answers your questions.
Thanks again for the information!(y)
 

Trip

Legend
@g4driver - I just wanted to add an update to this epic thread.

The 3.5 male playing a G360 Radical MP who I migrated from full-bed Babolat Addixion to a hybrid of RPX 1.30 mains / Cream 1.28 crosses, just passed 60 hours -- yes, that's right: sixty -- on the first string bed and hasn't had to adjust a main or cross once. Not once. RPX is notched to about 30% around the sweet spot and Cream is peeling a bit like string cheese around those intersections, but other than that, he says it's still quite playable. Under normal circumstances, I would have offered a restring by now and/or all-but-forced the issue if he had complained of any level of arm pain whatsoever, but he continues to feel great and wants to see just how long it will last (as do I, honestly). I figure since RPX is majority non-poly and Cream is 50+% rubber, we're likely fine to continue to the end.

Needless to say, he's blown away, and frankly, so am I. Just thought I'd add that as a data point!
 

PRChicago

New User
@Trip Don't you find that that with the RPX 30% notched that Cream is pretty well locked into the notch and you get inconsistent performance of the bed specially on serves and net play ? It is really surprising RPX hasn't snapped with that deep a notch.
 

Trip

Legend
@PRChicago - Actually not really, since the majority of string movement on most strokes is from the mains moving perpendicular to the crosses, this works out, as Cream hasn't notched (only peeled lightly), so the mains can still glide back and forth, mostly unimpeded. Anecdotally, the client reports almost identical dynamics from the string bed now versus when it was new (apart from a bit tension loss). Take that with as much healthy skepticism as you'd like, but I even took a few hits with the frame and it played pretty darn well. Grain of salt, etc.
 

PRChicago

New User
@PRChicago - Actually not really, since the majority of string movement on most strokes is from the mains moving perpendicular to the crosses, this works out, as Cream hasn't notched (only peeled lightly), so the mains can still glide back and forth, mostly unimpeded. Anecdotally, the client reports almost identical dynamics from the string bed now versus when it was new (apart from a bit tension loss). Take that with as much healthy skepticism as you'd like, but I even took a few hits with the frame and it played pretty darn well. Grain of salt, etc.
I agree on ground strokes it would be "ok", it's when the head isn't parallel to the ground (serve, volley, other) the notching on the main is bothersome. I guess it's just personal preference. The problem is also less severe if the bed has decent amount of trampoline effect, allowing the cross to give. This would be the case with any multi I think (until it snaps). thx.
 

g4driver

Legend
@g4driver - I just wanted to add an update to this epic thread.

The 3.5 male playing a G360 Radical MP who I migrated from full-bed Babolat Addixion to a hybrid of RPX 1.30 mains / Cream 1.28 crosses, just passed 60 hours -- yes, that's right: sixty -- on the first string bed and hasn't had to adjust a main or cross once. Not once.

Needless to say, he's blown away, and frankly, so am I. Just thought I'd add that as a data point!

thanks much for the info and report. Glad to see that setup is working well for him.
 

DEW

New User
I can hit with VCT, HGS/GW or Tier One Boost interchangeably. If I hit with Boost, 4 days in a row, my elbow feels it. Right now, if I hit 4 days a month , it is a good month. I am away from home more than I want and not much tennis other than stringing.

g4
what tension are you stringing the hgs/ghost at?
 

g4driver

Legend
I can hit with VCT, HGS/GW or Tier One Boost interchangeably. If I hit with Boost, 4 days in a row, my elbow feels it. Right now, if I hit 4 days a month , it is a good month. I am away from home more than I want and not much tennis other than stringing.

g4
what tension are you stringing the hgs/ghost at?

In my 2016 Pure Aero+ frames I use these temps depending on the month I string my frames. I live in Charleston SC. We get 4,5 months of summer. ;)

June - Sept 56M/54X
Sept / Oct / April / May 55M/53X
Nov to March = 54M / 52X
 
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