g4driver
Legend
Nope..
Kobayashi Maru String Scenario
- Thread starter g4driver
- Start date
g4driver
Legend
I had a reel of MSV swift in the order I just placed and pulled it before placing the order.. I had placed another 1K order in March and trying to keep my order Monday under 1K so removed the MSV swift and now regret it after reading your post.
I placed the order from my phone and was trying to add 20 sets of V8 Blade 16x19 Grommets but they were sold out. I will get an email when they are back in stock but it might take a while. There is that 1.65mm Syn Gut also but the reel is $200 which is nuts
g4driver
Legend
How long is HDMX / YPTA lasting you in the HD PRO 97?
I am going back to a buddy's shop and will see if the demo is in and will string it with Triax / YPTA.
If he will switch to it, it would help the shop owner, Will and myself. He would be able to afford getting his stringing at the shop finally. Ha
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Gotcha. Next order, I would definitely grab a reel of Swift -- USRSA tension maintenance numbers are similar to GW, and despite the stiffness numbers being abnormally high (yet another "data point" that makes me question the USRSA testing methodology...) real-life stiffness is supposedly between Cream and Ghost Wire, and slickness is better than GW, just about to equal to Cream. The fact that it comes in 1.30 (confirmed by caliper to be a true 1.30 as well) is nice for scenarios such as Will's and similar.
As another option, don't know if you've ever delved into Signum Pro, but Thunderstorm (a 10-sided, twisted version of Firestorm) has a very low 177 stiffness rating for the 1.30 gauge -- at least by the USRSA numbers, one of the softest, if not the softest, 1.30+ copoly out there, even softer than VCT 1.30, while also having better initial tension maintenance as well. Could be nice as a full bed for Will, or crossed with YPTA, Cream, etc.
just fyi, i tried various combinations of mains and crosses suggested in this thread (triax, rpx, hdmx for mains, cream 128, ypta, gw 128 for crosses among others). the longest lasting combination was hdmx (thickest gauge)/gw 128 by a pretty good margin. i think that triax 138/ypta combo was near the worst in terms of longevity. cream was no good as a cross for hdmx because it started snapping before hdmx did.
I fully agree with you. Ghostwire is the most suitable cross for multiesters like triax and hdmx. I paired triax 1.38 with msv swift 1.30 and the latter snapped first.
g4driver
Legend
Truly appreciate your feedback. So HDMX 1.35mm / GW 1.27 mm for the longest lasting.
Interesting. So MSV Swift snapped first? What frame/pattern? People like you and @spun_out help more than you know.
So 1.30mm SP Thunderstorm full bed for Will as another option. 1.30mm reel of SP Thunderstorm in my cart. Thanks much @Trip
Yes, msv snapped first around the 14-15 hour mark. It was tested on a prokennex q+tour pro (315g) 16x19 (relatively open in comparison with other 16x19 patterns).
About 16+ hours all in all.
g4driver
Legend
At 16 hours he could afford the tennis shop stringing his frames instead of me with the $25 per strung frame deal I am giving him.
I have three or four racquets I rotate through so I am guessing at the time I get with them. It is pretty accurate I would imagine. Again, it depends on the skill level he is playing against. His string time may be less. It is a great combination for me to use.
I use a stringer an hour away from me because he does such a great job at stringing my racquets. I have had such horrible luck with stringers close to me. It is worth the drive to find a great stringer.
I am sure he appreciates your help with the stringing and the deals you give him.
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@g4driver
In what order should I make changes? Right now losing playability of Triax 17 at ~ 8 hours and then snapping at ~ 10 hours
(4.0 Older Male; Current Gear = Yonex VC 98 2023 with Triax 17 full bed at 48lbs / Past Gear Yonex DR 98 with Hyper-G)
(Stringing costs - I buy the reels and $11.5 to string each time.
1) Buy a pack of Triax 15L as a string up gauge? Gain Durability and lose some spin / power?
2) Stick with Triax 17 on main and use a slick poly cross? I don't know what happens here. I've read the thread.
3) Suggestions for alternative 18x20 racket to Yonex VC 98 2023
In what order should I make changes? Right now losing playability of Triax 17 at ~ 8 hours and then snapping at ~ 10 hours
(4.0 Older Male; Current Gear = Yonex VC 98 2023 with Triax 17 full bed at 48lbs / Past Gear Yonex DR 98 with Hyper-G)
(Stringing costs - I buy the reels and $11.5 to string each time.
1) Buy a pack of Triax 15L as a string up gauge? Gain Durability and lose some spin / power?
2) Stick with Triax 17 on main and use a slick poly cross? I don't know what happens here. I've read the thread.
3) Suggestions for alternative 18x20 racket to Yonex VC 98 2023
Triax 16 in 18x20 should last you 20 hours. But playability will decrease after 10-15hours.
EggSalad
Hall of Fame
In my experience using OGSM to a cross with Triax reduces the strings getting locked up, and is a much more playable set up for a longer period of time while also being very arm friendly. I’ve used full bed Triax 16g and the strings lock up very quickly and I’d snap a main anywhere between 4-6 hours (16x20 98sq inch frame(.
I tend to like 1.30 OGSM but my wife uses the 1.22 and loves that. I’ll string her speed mp with 16G Triax and 1.22 OGSM at 54 lbs. when I used 16g Triax and 16g OGSM I also strung at 54lbs and this was in a Diadem Elevate. (Getting over golfers elbow set up for me).
And of course the polys mentioned here: YPTA, Ghostwire, Cream are all options if your arm is up for more poly.
When my strings break, it's always the main that is breaking / never the cross and right in the middle strings (I do use a damper).
Do you feel you get less spin using Triax 16G / OGSM 16G versus Triax FB?
and
How many hours are you getting on that setup?
TIA
EggSalad
Hall of Fame
It was always a main that snapped for me as well.
I don’t notice any less spin with OGSM. If anything, it allows the mains to move more freely which should give more spin.
It’s been a year since I played the Triax set ups, so this is only based on my fuzzy memory.
Full Triax 16g: 4-6 hours
Triax 16g / OGSM 16G: 12-14 hours
My wife probably gets 20+ hours out of 16g Triax/ 1.22 OGSM. Maybe a little more. She’s a good player but obviously not hitting with the power or spin as I or probably you do. But Speed MP is also a string eater.
I’ve got reels of both 16g and 17g OGSM. Happy to cut you a few sets and send for free.
g4driver
Legend
@chicchow
Let me make a few statements so you understand my thoughts.
- I do not like Triax, HDMX, HDX Tour (discontinued), or NXT Control (multiyesters) as a full bed due to the locked stringbed that @EggSalad mentioned
- Never buy a reel of a string that you don't love, or know you can't use it as a stringer for other clients.
my recommendations:
1) buy three packs of 1.33mm (16) Triax
2) put 1.33 mm Triax in the mains and then try these various crosses: 1.28mm Isopeed Cream, YPTA 1.25mm, Ghostwire 1.27mm, MSV Swift 1.25mm, 1.30 OGSM, and 1.30mm Head Velocity
-If you have a softer slick poly that you like try it if you prefer but don't use a shaped or rough poly cross. If you feel the strings are too stiff with a Cream or YPTA, skip Ghostwire and Swift and move to OGSM and Velocity. If you like the way those setups play but want more durability, just move up to 1.38mm Triax mains.
- If you are breaking 1.28MM (17) Triax too quickly, simply going up one gauge is the best choice to start IMO. Always try to minimize the variables of the equation you are trying to solve. Change one variable at a time, not two or three.
see post #3016 below
Head Velocity
Played first competitive League matches with Velocity mains and Prince Premier Touch crosses. Strung in a 2019 Völkl C10 Pro It was damp and rained at one point. Clay court tennis! Gut racquet stayed firmly in its wrapper in bag. I'm really liking Velocity / PPT and so is my arm - the day after...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
The last thing I would do is go by an 18x20 Yonex frame. IMO your string breaking is easily fixed by changing your gauge and crosses. You are not breaking strings at nearly the rate the guy I started this thread about breaks them. 1.28 Triax might last him one match.
And to give you something to think about in your #1 question, Technibre has a theory that thicker strings produce more spin, not less, so the generally accepted "thinner strings produce more spin" isn't accepted by Technibre.
Tecnifibre Triax: Does it do everything it claims to?
www.tennis-warehouse.com
For folks who have one client using a string none of your other clients use:
-I tell them I will get you a reel, but have no interest in selling it to you one string job at a time for two reasons: a) I am stuck with a reel I can't use when you switch strings. b) I am storing your strings and getting my money back one string job at a time. It might take them 2 years to use a reel. Not doing that.
-If the client asks, I will store the reel for frequent clients and have about 20 clients leave reels with me. I encourage clients with two frames to keep their reels as I travel often for work. I sell the reels at my cost, making no profit from the deal.
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Hi @g4driver
Thanks for the detailed reply. My responses below
"
my recommendations:
1) buy three packs of 1.33mm (16) Triax
2) put 1.33 mm Triax in the mains and then try these various crosses: 1.28mm Isopeed Cream, YPTA 1.25mm, Ghostwire 1.27mm, MSV Swift 1.25mm, 1.30 OGSM, and 1.30mm Head Velocity"
I'm on my second reel of Triax (17). For whatever reason, I am breaking the center main string more often now than I was before. I did switch from a 2021 VC98 to a 2023 VC98 and I did switch dampers. That being said, I would end up cutting out the Triax while using the 2021 VC98 anyways because of loss in playability but that was in the 10-20 hour range.
YPTA and OGSM are relatively easy for me to get at my location. So I will try the crosses with these two brands first. I also bought a pack of 16 and 15L Triax and am waiting for the packs to show up in the mail.
Question
I have one spare pack left of Dunlop S-gut (17). Is it worth trying as a cross while I wait for the OGSM to come in the mail? I did try to google fu but failed on the some slickness rating. I took it out of the pack and it feels decently smooth.
==
"You are not breaking strings at nearly the rate the guy I started this thread about breaks them. "
that's not fair - There is only one James (pause pause) TIBERIUS Kirk.
==
Lastly thank you for the info nugget on the "Technibre has a theory that thicker strings produce more spin, not less, so the generally accepted "thinner strings produce more spin" isn't accepted by Technibre."
I didn't know this. I was just going with what I always knew as gospel which was thinner equals a spinner
Cheers
Thanks for the detailed reply. My responses below
"
my recommendations:
1) buy three packs of 1.33mm (16) Triax
2) put 1.33 mm Triax in the mains and then try these various crosses: 1.28mm Isopeed Cream, YPTA 1.25mm, Ghostwire 1.27mm, MSV Swift 1.25mm, 1.30 OGSM, and 1.30mm Head Velocity"
I'm on my second reel of Triax (17). For whatever reason, I am breaking the center main string more often now than I was before. I did switch from a 2021 VC98 to a 2023 VC98 and I did switch dampers. That being said, I would end up cutting out the Triax while using the 2021 VC98 anyways because of loss in playability but that was in the 10-20 hour range.
YPTA and OGSM are relatively easy for me to get at my location. So I will try the crosses with these two brands first. I also bought a pack of 16 and 15L Triax and am waiting for the packs to show up in the mail.
Question
I have one spare pack left of Dunlop S-gut (17). Is it worth trying as a cross while I wait for the OGSM to come in the mail? I did try to google fu but failed on the some slickness rating. I took it out of the pack and it feels decently smooth.
==
"You are not breaking strings at nearly the rate the guy I started this thread about breaks them. "
that's not fair - There is only one James (pause pause) TIBERIUS Kirk.
==
Lastly thank you for the info nugget on the "Technibre has a theory that thicker strings produce more spin, not less, so the generally accepted "thinner strings produce more spin" isn't accepted by Technibre."
I didn't know this. I was just going with what I always knew as gospel which was thinner equals a spinner
Cheers
g4driver
Legend
Of course, since you have the reel of Triax 1.28mm, try the Dunlop syn gut right now as a cross with the Triax 1.28mm. Any time you are dealing with multifilaments or multiyesters and they are breaking too quickly, simply going up one gauge is an easy way to get more life from the string. Anytime I am using hybrids, try to get the cross string diameter within .05 of the main string diameter. In the case of Triax 1.38mm mains, that simply isn't possible using a softer co-poly cross like YPTA, Cream, or even Swift or Element. Why? It minimizes sawing (the crosses cutting into the mains) if the strings are closer in diameter.
YPTA is more expensive by the pack for people in the US, and the prices of strings do have quite a wide range around the world, so I mention four softer round copolys (YPTA, Cream, Ghostwire and Swift). TW sells Cream at a great price if you buy 10 packs. And wish they sold MSV Swift and MSV Buzzard, and Isospped Rexxer.
ISOSPEED Cream 16L/1.28 String | Tennis Warehouse
www.tennis-warehouse.com
That podcast is outstanding.
If you compare fresh Triax 1.28 vs 1.33, 1.28 is has more spin for sure.And to give you something to think about in your #1 question, Technibre has a theory that thicker strings produce more spin, not less, so the generally accepted "thinner strings produce more spin" isn't accepted by Technibre.
Tecnifibre Triax: Does it do everything it claims to?
g4driver
Legend
All that matters is you are happy with it. That is it. I have several clients using the same frame, same string different gauges. Neither is wrong. They just picked the diameter they prefer for their game. The only client I have ever had who said" I wish I could hit flatter" is the subject of this thread. Yep, the guy who lead me to start this thread.If you compare fresh Triax 1.28 vs 1.33, 1.28 is has more spin for sure.
Tecnifibre and others have long theorized that thicker strings produce more spin. This theory is certainly not commonly accepted. The last thing I need is more clients getting things in their heads they can't let go of. Hence my blind playtest for clients. Blind playtest remove bias and many players have preconceived bias in their strings, frames, shoes and more
. I have enough OCD clients and don't want more.Just go play tennis, have fun, and if you want to tweak or experiment, of course that is what is great about so many different strings and frame.
My post about that podcast is there is a major string company that doesn't accept the commonly accepted theory "thinner strings produce more spin". I have no evidence they are correct. If only @TW Staff could get TW Professor to set up a controlled lab experiment with 1.33mm Triax and 1.28 Triax strung in identical frames, same tension with AOTBE, and give us the results of his findings. Tecnifibre might not like the results.
@7:18 in the above video, Michele, Troy and Jaye discuss thinner strings providing more spin than thicker strings, then Troy discusses Chris Edwards and his perception that Chris can get more spin from thicker string since he is able to swing faster without the power of the thinner strings.
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That is right. And everyone should compare spin, power and everything else only from their experience. Reviews can help you but wont be 100% accurate for everyone. At the moment im playing with Restring Zero and it gives me ridiculous spin. It may be because of great snapback, shape or just hitting faster but in my experience it does give me much more spin compared to multi such as Triax.All that matters is you are happy with it. That is it. I have several clients using the same frame, same string different gauges. Neither is wrong. They just picked the diameter they prefer for their game. The only client I have ever had who said" I wish I could hit flatter" is the subject of this thread. Yep, the guy who lead me to start this thread.
Tecnifibre and others have long theorized that thicker strings produce more spin. This theory is certainly not commonly accepted. The last thing I need is more clients getting things in their heads they can't let go of. Hence my blind playtest for clients. Blind playtest remove bias and many players have preconceived bias in their strings, frames, shoes and more
Just go play tennis, have fun, and if you want to tweak or experiment, of course that is what is great about so many different strings and frame.
My post about that podcast is there is a major string company that doesn't accept the commonly accepted theory "thinner strings produce more spin". I have no evidence they are correct. If only @TW Staff could get TW Professor to set up a controlled lab experiment with 1.33mm Triax and 1.28 Triax strung in identical frames, same tension with AOTBE, and give us the results of his findings. Tecnifibre might not like the results.
@7:18 in the above video, Michele, Troy and Jaye discuss thinner strings providing more spin than thicker strings, then Troy discusses Chris Edwards and his perception that Chris can get more spin from thicker string since he is able to swing faster without the power of the thinner strings.
TennisJrDad
Professional
Yes, but if you swing faster with Triax it could give more spin. Some players can get much more spin from multi than others from shaped poly. When people talk about spin for example, there are many variables included.
TennisJrDad
Professional
I agree there are many factors. Nadal could hit with more spin playing with fishing line than the majority of people on the forums here. I had thought we were talking strings in general, ie: which strings inherently contribute more or less to spin production, taking the other variables out of the discussion. Given the same player, with the same stroke dynamics playing with TF Triax vs Restring Zero, my expectation would be that we would see higher spin production from the Restring Zero, based on the fact that is a shaped poly being compared to a round multi.
BPlain
Semi-Pro
Let me, once again, start by acknowledging how much I appreciate this thread @g4driver and the wealth of information it contains.
I've recently come to the conclusion that my elbow after many years of competitive play just can't / shouldn't take poly in pretty much any form including the various multiesters. And while my elbow has felt fine and string performance has been accepted with full bed of Velocity 1.30 or Velocity 1.30 / MF 1.30 hybrid – which yes, I know contains a little poly but this is the expection not the rule for me – my issue is that I break it in 2-3 hours.
So before I just buy another frame and accept my new lot in tennis playing life – it's not so bad! – I realized I've never played or tried natural gut before. So I ask the wise members of said thread, if I'm blowing through 1.30 multis in 2-3 hours, if I played a gut/multi hybrid in the same 1.30 gauge, could I expect more, less, or the same durability generally speaking? (EDIT: I'm guessing the same or less here.)
I've recently come to the conclusion that my elbow after many years of competitive play just can't / shouldn't take poly in pretty much any form including the various multiesters. And while my elbow has felt fine and string performance has been accepted with full bed of Velocity 1.30 or Velocity 1.30 / MF 1.30 hybrid – which yes, I know contains a little poly but this is the expection not the rule for me – my issue is that I break it in 2-3 hours.
So before I just buy another frame and accept my new lot in tennis playing life – it's not so bad! – I realized I've never played or tried natural gut before. So I ask the wise members of said thread, if I'm blowing through 1.30 multis in 2-3 hours, if I played a gut/multi hybrid in the same 1.30 gauge, could I expect more, less, or the same durability generally speaking? (EDIT: I'm guessing the same or less here.)
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BPlain
Semi-Pro
Alright, my initial plan is to cut out my current multiester hybrids – Tourna Synthetic Gut Armour Black 1.30 (m) / Velocity 1.30 (c) & HDX Tour 1.24 (m) / Velocity 1.30 (c) – and try a full bed of MultiFeel Black 1.30 and MultiFeel Black 1.30 (m) / Velocity 1.30 (c) hybrid next. I previously played Velocity 1.30 Natural (m) / MultiFeel 1.30 Black (c) but that only lasted about 2 hours. Next sure I'll get much more than that out of the reverse or full bed of MF 1.30 but that's to be determined.
I'd welcome any other suggestions you all might have.
Neither velocity nor multifeel contains any poly. Your durability issue can be solved by increasing the gauge of the strings. Velocity comes even in 1.40 mm.
BPlain
Semi-Pro
You're right. I confused the polyurethane in MultiFeel with polyester. And that will probably be my next test is MF 1.30 fb and hybrid don't do the trick. Thank you.
Which string broke first?
BPlain
Semi-Pro
Velocity 1.30 Natural in the mains. What's odd is that I had my backup strung with Velocity 1.30 Blue mains / MF 1.30 Black crosses and that lasted closer to 4-6 hours.
Got it. I would put a more durable solid-core synthetic in the mains, something super slick like Gosen AK Pro CX 1.30, or if you need to go even more durable, Gamma Marathon DPC 15L 1.40. You should be able to get much closer to double-digit hours with either of those.
Very welcome. Can and should go Multifeel Black 1.30 in the crosses -- it's a solid-core multi, so durability should be good, and the Black variant is one of the most slick synthetics out there, multi, syn-gut, or otherwise, and it holds it coating a decently long enough time.
BPlain
Semi-Pro
While waiting for Gosen AK Pro CX 1.30 to arrive, I strung up a full bed of MF 1.30 Black at 48 lbs. And wow, this was the best full bed of multi set up I’ve found since giving up poly. Got in 2 hours of singles this morning and still seems to be going strong. We’ll see how long it lasts but so far, so great. Really found some of the ball grip and easy spin I thought I would have to sacrifice by giving up on poly. And most importantly, my elbow agreed.
Aweosme stuff @BPlain -- I think most of the secret sauce there is the slickness and longevity of MF's surface coating. Really is a notch above most other synthetics out there, save for the likes of AK Pro CX, RPM Soft and a couple others. Granted, the slickness will diminish over time, but still, quite a nice poly substitute, all things considered.
MF Black coating last longer than Triax coating?
BPlain
Semi-Pro
Well, I made it a full 4 hours until MF 1.30 Black broke. I'm now about 40 minutes into Gosen AK Pro CX 1.30 / MF 1.30 black hybrid and already seeing the MF crosses fray. I'll let it play out and see if it gets to the point where the MF crosses break before the Gosen syn gut mains. Overall, really liked the full bed of MF 1.30 Black best of any multi string I've used so far so leaning towards just getting a third VC95 and stringing more often.
BPlain
Semi-Pro
Not sure why I hadn't thought to ask until now but would string savers – looks like Babolat ones are best-rated – be worth looking into? My shallow research so far seems to suggest they not only improve durability but can also increase/maintain spin potential for longer.
String savers might be a worthwhile experiment. You could also try varying location and/or density, such as with the Federer pattern, then blending it into the string bed location you tend to impact the most with your own hitting. If you try it, keep us posted as to how it works out.
BPlain
Semi-Pro
Update: string savers did seem to help a bit but I didn't find them worth the hassle factor. Got a little longer life out the Gosen AK Pro CX 1.30 (m) / Tecnifibre MultiFeel Black (c) hybrid – the MF cross was down to just the solid core component itself before breaking – but after now trying the hybrid and Gosen AK Pro CX 1.30 full bed – strings were quickly all over the place – I just like MF 1.30 Black in full bed the best as a poly replacement. Obviously not the same, but as close as I seem to get staying off poly altogether.
So I'm probably just going to adjust to breaking MF 1.30 Black quicker and possibly add a third VC95 if needed.
TimePlease
Semi-Pro
Would you say string savers made any difference to spin production?
BPlain
Semi-Pro
They did seem to help with the strings snapping back a bit but not sure it was enough to make a real difference. I might try it again when I got full bed MF 1.30 just to compare and contrast with vs without. I'll keep you posted if I do.
BPlain
Semi-Pro
Quick update: I strung up a full bed of MF 1.30 with an 8x8 string saver pattern added. After playing for an hour and half today, it definitely looks like they helped as there was minimal fraying and/or notching compared to what I've seen in the past without them. Snap back was good but not sure it's much different than normal. That being said, as they do seem to be extending the string bed duration, I would guess they will help with continued spin production by delaying the fraying that usually occurs earlier.
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BPlain
Semi-Pro
Further update on string saver experiment: They have easily doubled the normal life of MF 1.30 Black for me but I'm not sure I like how the strings are playing later on in their life as much I did in hours 1-4. So we'll see what I end up settling on going forward but the string savers are definitely making a difference.
AceyMan
Professional
That's a lot of string savers, and they aren't a cheap part of the base costs. Take the three "corner" spots off the 6x6 and you save 12 units, which adds up if you string often. It also lets you get another set out of two packs without having to break a third pack, or something. It helps around the shop, try it out.
I tried hdmx 1.35 with ghostwire 1.27 and it lasted me around 9 hours. Multifeel of the same gauge (1.35) paired again with ghostwire snapped at the same time mark. I don't see how the poly fibers of hdmx prolong its lifespan. Multifeel seems to produce the same results for me in the court (spin, comfort) and is way cheaper. From all the multiesters, triax 1.38 is the most durable. At least that is my experience.
