Kostyuk

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
So Kostyuk has been experiencing right wrist problems and just retired against Rybakina. She is playing with Luxilon 4g @ 55lbs in a Wilson Steam 100 Stiffness 67.
If you were her coach what would you have done when the wrist problems began to be a problem several matches ago and even tournaments ago.
In addition she actually fractured her left wrist in practice a few years ago.
 
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So Kostyuk has been experiencing right wrist problems and just retired against Rybakina. She is playing with Luxilon 4g @ 55lbs in a Wilson Steam 100 Stiffness 67.
If you were her coach what would you have done when the wrist problems began to be a problem several matches ago and even tournaments ago?
In addition, she fractured her left wrist in practice a few years ago.
Who knows if it’s the gear for them. She might have played years with that set up with no issues. It very could be for other reasons despite this being objectively a pretty demanding set up.

It’s also difficult to replicate the performance you get from 4G in any comfort oriented strings for really high level players. It is still one of the most confidence inducing control strings with fairly connected feedback when you have pro level swing speeds.

At the amateur level we don’t experience some of the benefits of 4G that unlocks at a pretty high swing speed
 
Who knows if it’s the gear for them. She might have played years with that set up with no issues. It very could be for other reasons despite this being objectively a pretty demanding set up.

It’s also difficult to replicate the performance you get from 4G in any comfort oriented strings for really high level players. It is still one of the most confidence inducing control strings with fairly connected feedback when you have pro level swing speeds.

At the amateur level we don’t experience some of the benefits of 4G that unlocks at a pretty high swing speed
Reality is multiple injuries including fractured wrist and you have to find a solution to keep her competing.
 
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As said before, she probably has played this setup for several years, so could be other things as well.

I've noticed that high swingweight from the racquet contributes more to wrist fatigue and eventually pain, so two quick things that I'd check are the racquet swingweight and lowering that tension a bit till she still finds the control she likes.

Marta is the sweetest girl in court, I'm so sad she had to finish her run like that
 
As said before, she probably has played this setup for several years, so could be other things as well.

I've noticed that high swingweight from the racquet contributes more to wrist fatigue and eventually pain, so two quick things that I'd check are the racquet swingweight and lowering that tension a bit till she still finds the control she likes.

Marta is the sweetest girl in court, I'm so sad she had to finish her run like that
The tension being lowered would have been the first thing would have done 3 yrs ago when she fractured her wrist in practice.
 
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I'm nowhere near a pro athlete or anything but I know for me, I played stiff strings on a 55-58lbs setup on a PDR / PA / Ezone setup for years (if including all those rackets 16+ years) without any issues. I hurt my wrist pretty bad one time in a non sporting related accident and even after a full recovery I could never go back to those setups long term without a creeping debilitating pain. It'd sometimes come back faster or slower.

Like you all said, though, there are probably other factors for Marta as well.
 
It is hard to cause wrist problems with strings. Especially within one match.

It has more to do with the racquet, or rather, how you hold your racquet.

My take on this: she had to face a very hard hitter. When this happens to me, I instinctively start gripping the handle very hard. This is because I have the sensation that racquet is twisted out of my hand. If I play in this mode long enough, I will get pain. Even at the end of the match…

However, I lived long enough … and I no longer play in that mode. I have a special racquet in my bag — for when I need to face big hitters. It is heavy and super stable. It does not twist. I do not need to grip it extra hard. I can reverse matches with it.

Here is what I would recommend: when facing big hitters, go with a heavy racquet.
 
It is hard to cause wrist problems with strings. Especially within one match.

It has more to do with the racquet, or rather, how you hold your racquet.

My take on this: she had to face a very hard hitter. When this happens to me, I instinctively start gripping the handle very hard. This is because I have the sensation that racquet is twisted out of my hand. If I play in this mode long enough, I will get pain. Even at the end of the match…

However, I lived long enough … and I no longer play in that mode. I have a special racquet in my bag — for when I need to face big hitters. It is heavy and super stable. It does not twist. I do not need to grip it extra hard. I can reverse matches with it.

Here is what I would recommend: when facing big hitters, go with a heavy

Agassi had wrist surgery after playing with Kevlar. Went to full poly in an oversized frame at a reasonable tension. Del Portro retired after severel wrist surgeries and was playing with Luxilon Alu Power at 60lbs. Kostyuk fractured her left wrist 3yrs ago in practice with this set up. Now it’s the right wrist and right elbow.
 
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I'm nowhere near a pro athlete or anything but I know for me, I played stiff strings on a 55-58lbs setup on a PDR / PA / Ezone setup for years (if including all those rackets 16+ years) without any issues. I hurt my wrist pretty bad one time in a non sporting related accident and even after a full recovery I could never go back to those setups long term without a creeping debilitating pain. It'd sometimes come back faster or slower.

Like you all said, though, there are probably other factors for Marta as well.

Just as you had to adjust your set up after injury she will too.
 
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She has had problems for 3yrs. Think some of this could have been avoided if they would have changed the set up after the fractured left wrist in practice 3 yrs ago?
What do you think would have happened if you had kept playing with the same set up after your wrist injury? Believe you said you could never go back without debilitating pain.
And there is a huge difference. The wear and tear on her is much more. She trains 6-8 hrs a day not to mention the tournaments she plays week in and week out.

For sure, agreed. I could only imagine in her case.
 
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Wilson Steam 100 BLX
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No she uses the Steam 99
 
Most of the aspiring juniors at our club basically string the racket so that they can belt the ball as hard as they can without it going out. So that means it's pretty tight and uncomfortable and it's not surprising injuries occur.
 
Interestingly it’s still the old BLX style grommets on her frames instead of the new Ultra style. Could be that the new version alters the SW or
The old Steam frames are common on the WTA. Sabalenka, Radacanu, Badosa, Halep.
 
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Go get a 70RA frame specs like hers and string it with 4g( not 18g) @ 55 and check in with us about every 6mths on how well your doing. If you look at her string it is at least 1.25 and may be 1.30.
 
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I am just going by the stringing room at a WTA event. You miss the point. The stiffness of the frame could be part of a solution. If it is 99 steam it’s even stiffer.
Sorry, think like a coach and go by what the hands on her frames people tell me. Dont analyze throats of frames and grommets. I think solutions to a problem.
But like you said above, players can get whatever string pattern they want, so what is stopping them from getting a custom softer layup. Can you confirm for sure her racket is 70 or upper 60's RA. For all we know, her RA could be low 60's.
 
Interestingly it’s still the old BLX style grommets on her frames instead of the new Ultra style. Could be that the new version alters the SW or feel?
I do think feel has something to do with it. For players playing with the Steam 100, Wilson kept using the old Steam grommets all the way till v8 Blade pj. Only the v9 Blade did they update the grommets.

It seems Wilson made Alex de Minaur a custom grommet for his 16x19, thats black instead of blue, but includes the two side teal grommets.
 
But like you said above, players can get whatever string pattern they want, so what is stopping them from getting a custom softer layup. Can you confirm for sure her racket is 70 or upper 60's RA. For all we know, her RA could be
The injuries are continuing to present day so something needs to change.
 
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Go get a 70RA frame specs like hers and string it with 4g( not 18g) @ 55 and check in with us about every 6mths on how well your doing. If you look at her string it is at least 1.25 and may be 1.30.
I hit with a profile today with kev/4g at 86lbs. And as you know always string tight with kev/4g and have for decades.

Anyhow to the wrist issues. I NEVER have wrist issues.

But one day I started getting wrist pain. I was amazed. It was a new racquet (Bab Aero extended iirc) but the handle and strings were all the same. The thing is I hadn’t added the lead. I listened to this stupid board and was trying a light stick. Added the normal weight and viola the wrist pain went away never to return. So I would have looked at slowly adding weight or length to increase the swingweight, or lowering tension a bit or just dropping cross string tension. And even upping main tension while lowering the crosses.

Had a similar exp with the blade 98 except i needed more tension (stupidly listened to this board and was using lower tensions) so i strung it at the normal 86lbs. And the elbow started to hurt. I added more weight and that racquet is fine.

You are too much in your stiff racquet/ stiff strings at high tension kills the arm wrist/ dogma to listen bit some players like a stiff feel on contact. I bet she is one of them and its hard to change. The launch angle is less and more precise letting you swing out.

There prob is a mental component too. At least for me I couldn’t play with a racquet like the RF97a because it would have a different flex on every shot. That messed with my head like I was hitting wrong somehow. With the profile (much stiffer than the stick she is using) and kev/4g at 86lbs i don’t even worry. Nothing flexes and I can just play. Mentally I get not wanting to ditch stiff strings and racquets even if there is pain. Noodles and wimpy string beds suck for me and probably for her too.

Anyhow I also would look at her stretching routines and make sure she was stretching/ massaging properly. And try a bigger handle or another overgrip to start. Lots of things can help. And thats just tennis. It could be a bone issue or something who knows

Do I need to check in in 6 months?
 
I hit with a profile today with kev/4g at 86lbs. And as you know always string tight with kev/4g and have for decades.

Anyhow to the wrist issues. I NEVER have wrist issues.

But one day I started getting wrist pain. I was amazed. It was a new racquet (Bab Aero extended iirc) but the handle and strings were all the same. The thing is I hadn’t added the lead. I listened to this stupid board and was trying a light stick. Added the normal weight and viola the wrist pain went away never to return. So I would have looked at slowly adding weight or length to increase the swingweight, or lowering tension a bit or just dropping cross string tension. And even upping main tension while lowering the crosses.

Had a similar exp with the blade 98 except i needed more tension (stupidly listened to this board and was using lower tensions) so i strung it at the normal 86lbs. And the elbow started to hurt. I added more weight and that racquet is fine.

You are too much in your stiff racquet/ stiff strings at high tension kills the arm wrist/ dogma to listen bit some players like a stiff feel on contact. I bet she is one of them and its hard to change. The launch angle is less and more precise letting you swing out.

There prob is a mental component too. At least for me I couldn’t play with a racquet like the RF97a because it would have a different flex on every shot. That messed with my head like I was hitting wrong somehow. With the profile (much stiffer than the stick she is using) and kev/4g at 86lbs i don’t even worry. Nothing flexes and I can just play. Mentally I get not wanting to ditch stiff strings and racquets even if there is pain. Noodles and wimpy string beds suck for me and probably for her too.

Anyhow I also would look at her stretching routines and make sure she was stretching/ massaging properly. And try a bigger handle or another overgrip to start. Lots of things can help. And thats just tennis. It could be a bone issue or something who knows

Do I need to check in in 6 months?

We are talking about Kostyuk, not you. 4g at 55 in 70RA can cause issues or exacerbate them.
 
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To a therapy office.
Therapists only see you if you are not happy.

Oh and Dustin Brown. He played at a pretty high level with a pure drive and iirc it was 4g at 70lbs. No issues afaik from that setup. Had some of the best touch too.

It seems that swing weight and tension are proportional on some level. The lower the sw the lower the tension (recent trends you mentioned) and the higher the tension the higher the sw. It makes sense. And if you lower the sw but keep the tension (because the player likes it boardy) well there will be issues. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a change in sw at some point probably because her coach read these forums, but tension was kept the same…

Anyhow I knew your dogmatic thinking would make it a short convo. Enjoy.

And speaking of therapy, you are stressing about a player you don’t even coach. It’s like that Bay Watch episode where that Paul lady gets a skin cancer diagnosis and runs all over the beach throwing sunblock at everyone!
 
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Adding enough weight to counter the stiffness of the string and frame would be a tremendous amount of weight. Easier solutions without having to dramatically change her set up. She is playing week in and week out.
 
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Glad tennis is still being such joy. You will have to go search somewhere else for someone to argue with and brag about your bionic arm and 86lb kev.
Thanks. Its not a brag just trying to answer your questions. Since I have gotten te and ge before the arm is not bionic exactly. But the setup is. Sw and recoil weight is high and protective. In the examples I cited, when stiff strings and high tension caused pain, the solution was to increase sw which should also increase recoil weight.

In simple terms the higher the sw the higher the tension/ string bed stiffness you can endure.

Heck it might not even be equipment related for her.

Never seen her play. Is she a flat hitter?
 
Thanks. Its not a brag just trying to answer your questions. Since I have gotten te and ge before the arm is not bionic exactly. But the setup is. Sw and recoil weight is high and protective. In the examples I cited, when stiff strings and high tension caused pain, the solution was to increase sw which should also increase recoil weight.

In simple terms the higher the sw the higher the tension/ string bed stiffness you can endure.

Heck it might not even be equipment related for her.

Never seen her play. Is she a
Safer to lower the tension, increase the flex of the frame and use less stiff string when you are dealing with multiple current injuries.
 
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Your chronic shoulder problems are in part due to the heavy weight you have added to your frame to compensate for the extreme tensions and stiffness. No one is impressed.
Well yes shoulder can get sore. Heck I spent hours hitting kick serves trying to hit the ad court fence and was sore the next day. After a few outings like that I took some time off. Shoulder was not happy Its fine these days but I need to do my crossover symmetry routinely to keep things right. But for a normal match, shoulder doesn’t get nearly the workout.

Now the “kicker” is that I stupidly listened to this board and bought into “RHS needs a light racquet” mentality so the bulk of those serves were with a 320g racquet. I was taxing my shoulder to get the umph the racquet wasn’t providing and paid the price again for listening to these boards.

But sure hassle me for a sore shoulder. There are guys with 300g racquets tearing up their shoulder all the time regardless of their strings and tensions.
 
Well yes shoulder can get sore. Heck I spent hours hitting kick serves trying to hit the ad court fence and was sore the next day. After a few outings like that I took some time off. Shoulder was not happy Its fine these days but I need to do my crossover symmetry routinely to keep things right. But for a normal match, shoulder doesn’t get nearly the workout.

Now the “kicker” is that I stupidly listened to this board and bought into “RHS needs a light racquet” mentality so the bulk of those serves were with a 320g racquet. I was taxing my shoulder to get the umph the racquet wasn’t providing and paid the price again for listening to these boards.

But sure hassle me for a sore shoulder. There are guys with 300g racquets tearing up their shoulder all the time regardless of their strings and tensions.

Heavy weight could cause this girl more problems with her shoulder.
 
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Your biggest miss with all of this is that you believe if one person can play with a certain set up then everyone can. You haven’t even proved that you can play with that set up without injury.
Dimitrov and many other players extended their career by going down in static, swing weight, and string tension to take the pressure off of their shoulders. Your theory is put extreme weight on your frame along with some of the stiffest string you can find at super high tension. Doesnt work for the majority of players, especially as they age, and certainly not anyone at the higher levels of the game. If you can find a rare instance where this is the case that means nothing for the majority of players. Set ups have to be fine tuned to each player. Your one extreme solution is not something any of the players I have worked with would even consider. Have worked with many players at the national, collegiate and professional level.
I remember you and your cohort claiming that this extreme style of stringing, frame weight, high differentials squashing the frame was the way of the future for tennis. 10yrs later don’t see it anywhere at any level of competition. Actually just the opposite with tensions going down. High level juniors, collegiate and professional players that I see still lead tape their frames sensibly to get what they are looking for out of their frames. Poly, poly hybrids and natural gut in the mains/crosses with some. Just have to use common sense in stringing.
We were talking about one specific player. She likes it stiff and you asked “if you were her coach” so I told you exactly what I would do especially since I like it stiff too and had wrist pain once and fixed it. Actually experienced the problem and fixed it while retaining the stiff stringbed she likes.

Lots of bad faith and strawmanning going on especially when you ask a hypothetical and get an honest answer.
 
We were talking about one specific player. She likes it stiff and you asked “if you were her coach” so I told you exactly what I would do especially since I like it stiff too and had wrist pain once and fixed it. Actually experienced the problem and fixed it while retaining the stiff stringbed she likes.

Lots of bad faith and strawmanning going on especially when you ask a hypothetical and get an honest

Not about you and your set up.
 
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You have one specific solution for all players. Anything else you claim to be dogma. I’ve made adjustments to hundreds of high level players frames, strings etc. solution is not cookie cutter. 38yrs of working with players.
To approach me out of the gate stating I’m too caught up in my dogma about stiff frames, stiff strings and high tension to listen is a real jackass thing to say. To approach someone like that shows you have no character or respect for people. You need to learn some manners.
It wasn’t out of the gate. Read a ton of your posts. There are tons of “high tension, stiff strings like kevlar and stiff racquets” kill arms posts. And IIRC you hurt yourself pretty badly don’t remember the details but wouldn’t be surprised if kevlar was involved. So tons of anti stiffness posts, and then you post about how she needs lower tension and softer strings. It seems dogmatic to me.

How many of those hundreds of adjustments involved changing to stiffer strings and increasing tensions?

Anyhow it’s clear you can’t separate a position from the person and any criticism of an idea is somehow no respect for people. I was trying to help especially since I like a stiff string bed and would not listen to someone wanting me to lower tension especially if I was playing for dough. And since I had a wrist issue and solved it while retaining the stiff stringbed I offered a solution.

Sorry if you felt disrespected. Put in the OP that you are not interested in alternative views or dialogue….
 
The adjustment to people’s frames all depends on what they are looking for. If they want more control and better feel that is occasionally stiffer strings, stiffer frames, higher tension or a combination. More power, plow through or launch angle there are other solutions.

When there is injury to the wrists, elbows or shoulder we don’t go stiffer strings, stiffer frames, higher tensions which is your one go to for everyone. Especially Kostyuk where she fractured her left wrist practicing and has now damaged her right wrist and elbow. Adding considerable weight is problematic when players have been using the same balance/ weight for many years. Start hitting the ball late off of an injury and the issues can be exacerbated. Can make other adjustments and they acclimate more seamlessly.
You need to get over this labeling people’s approach to racquet tech as dogma, that is a total insult to anyone to approach them that way. Sad you don’t see that. I’m sure your approach is reflective in all of your relationships. If anyone suggested something to you such as “you might make it to work quicker by car than by bicycle”, you would consider that dogma.

It is interesting that no one I have ever met in 50yrs in the tennis industry has your approach to racquet tech which you based solely on your own frame and experimentation and the jury is still out on whether it is even productive for you. Have seen you play. You’re out on a limb by yourself it seems and we will all just have to continue in our dogma working to resolve situations day in and day out with recreational players and successful players at some of the highest levels of tennis.
Nice job on the appeal to popularity fallacy. Its flat earth thinking....

you are assuming more weight will invariably make timing late. If you do it right that is not necessarily so and its possible to make a racquet come around quicker by adding weight.

Also I am confident you can get a stiffer FEEL by stringing with less tension but didn't mention that because its pointless and you wouldnt believe it anyhow. It would require going outside your stringing dogma. Don't take that personally. Lots of stringers on this board are some of the most dogmatic people ever.

And quit strawmanning me. I never said to increase tension or stiffer strings or higher tensions for Kostyuk. She clearly likes it tight and I gave examples of how to make a tight stringbed more arm/ wrist friendly. (Its just physics that mass is more arm friendly). You talk of respect but continue to throw fallacies at me and now impugn my relationships which you have zero clue about...
 
People who actually do this for a living seem to intimidate you. Your go to is to always claim they are just dogmatic and can’t get outside their stringing dogma. Maybe you could learn something from them.
 
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Shroud go create a thread with your 86/86 Kev/poly, 30-40 llb differentials, and extreme weighted squashed frames.
 
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Shroud: just go away and create your own thread. You interject yourself into these threads just to start controversy and to say that racquet techs, stringers are wrong and caught up in their dogma and that you have all the answers.

That magical weighted frame you mentioned that doesn’t effect people’s timing, have seen you trying to serve with one of those weighted frames of yours. It looked like you were having major issues getting the racquet above your head. You were so late to the ball it looked like you were comtacting the ball right off the top of your head. You are going to have to tell that lie to someone who doesn’t know better and can’t see. Tip of the Day: Don’t change things that don’t need to be changed to try and solve a problem.

Something tells me that high level players are not just breaking down your door bringing you racquets or shipping them to your house to have them professionally matched, spec’d, or problem solve. You could mess up a player for several years sending them down in one of your rabbit holes.
I guess I hit a nerve. Now you go on and on attacking me and trashing my strokes while whining about respect. I can’t serve with a light stick either lol

Nice job.
 
Hearing you guys argue, is this a situation where there is some overlap.
Meaning if you have high tension you need a certain amount of mass in the racquet to help absorb shock more?
If you have low tension, you can then use a lower weight racquet and compensate for the weight by getting more swing speed?

I wonder if technique factors in here too. More Eastern like Semi-western with more longitudal strokes can handle the higher weight and tension, whereas the more whippy/windshieldwiper/rotational strokes will utilize more wrist. The added weight needed for a high tension racquet might then be too tough on the wrist and cause injury. Or if you are whipping the racquet with a lower weight racquet but with high tension--the ball will just spin down too much into the court.
 
Fix your own stuff, until you can do that you certainly aren’t capable or working on other people’s frames. Especially professional players. You shouldn’t be on this thread
You literally asked :”If you were her coach what would you have done when the wrist problems began to be a problem several matches ago and even tournaments ago?”

I answered your hypothetical and provided unique experience. I had wrist pain and fixed it with weight while keeping the string bed stiff. This player likes a stiff stringbed! You seem to miss that. And being a player who likes it stiff I am betting she would not go for a drop in tension or a soft string.

I for one love my racquets and am playing some of my best tennis. Even serving well with my heavy racquets these days.

And btw lots of my equipment knowledge is from Travlerajm. And he actually does have pro clients and had a whole thread about their tour results. So you are wrong there, those racquet customizations work.




 
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