KSixOne TOUR vs. NCode TOUR 90

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Nice try breakpoint, this is a perfect example of what you're capable of manipulating. This is what I've written just a few posts above, but you still try to LIE and mislead people into thinking differently about the topic.
You've mentioned only TWO people:

1.) The Assistent Manager - who "has the K95", no mention of the K90. He's also a long time user of the nCode 95, NOT the nCode 90. Did he play with the K90 or not? Did he compare the K90 with the nCode 90 side-by-side?

2.) Jeff - who is also a long time user of the nCode 95, and has played with the K95. Did Jeff play with the K90 at all? Did he compare the K90 side-by-side with the nCode 90?

And are Jeff and the Assistent Manager one and the same guy? If so, you've got only ONE guy that's played with the K95 and was a regular user of the nCode 95. So as far as I know, you don't know ANYONE that was a long-time user of the nCode 90 and has now played with the K90 and is now claiming the K90 to swing heavier than the nCode 90.

If you have more "friends" that are long-time users of the nCode 90 that have also played with the K90 and are also claiming that the K90 swings heavier than the nCode 90, please list them all for us to see. You don't have to include their last names. We just want to see how large the sample size is that you're using to support your claim that the K90 swings heavier than the nCode 90.
 

AlpineCadet

Hall of Fame
You've mentioned only TWO people:

1.) The Assistent Manager - who "has the K95", no mention of the K90. He's also a long time user of the nCode 95, NOT the nCode 90. Did he play with the K90 or not? Did he compare the K90 with the nCode 90 side-by-side?

2.) Jeff - who is also a long time user of the nCode 95, and has played with the K95. Did Jeff play with the K90 at all? Did he compare the K90 side-by-side with the nCode 90?

And are Jeff and the Assistent Manager one and the same guy? If so, you've got only ONE guy that's played with the K95 and was a regular user of the nCode 95. So as far as I know, you don't know ANYONE that was a long-time user of the nCode 90 and has now played with the K90 and is now claiming the K90 to swing heavier than the nCode 90.

If you have more "friends" that are long-time users of the nCode 90 that have also played with the K90 and are also claiming that the K90 swings heavier than the nCode 90, please list them all for us to see. You don't have to include their last names. We just want to see how large the sample size is that you're using to support your claim that the K90 swings heavier than teh nCode 90.
I've said before that JEFF, WHO IS THE ASSISTANT MANAGER, has stated that he's noticed the frames are heavier to swing. I also state that many of his other co-workers, and personal friends of mine have stated the same thing about these k-factor frames. If you don't believe me, CALL The Rac.ket Doc.tor for yourself, I don't need to play your games of listing names and meeting specific guidelines. I don't understand why you would concentrate so hard on trying to attack me and hassle a person this way. IT'S JUST WRONG.

BTW, I don't have all night to kill time on these boards like yourself, Happy New Year's eve. Everything I've needed to say has been stated, and if you continue to find loopholes with the things I've said, I won't be here to read them or reply back. I'm done with this thread because there's nothing else to be said.
 
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BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I've said before that JEFF, WHO IS THE ASSISTANT MANAGER, has stated that he's noticed the frames are heavier. I also state that many of his other co-workers, and personal friends of mine have stated the same thing about these k-factor frames. I don't understand why you would concentrate so hard on trying to attack me and hassle someone like this.

I don't have all night to kill time on these boards like yourself, Happy New Year's eve.
I'm not trying to attack you. I just want to know how large of a sample size you're talking about. Is it two friends? It is two hundred friends? We've already got at least a dozen people here that have played with the K90 and say that it swings easier than the nCode 90, so it would be relevant to know if only two other people disagree or two hundred other people.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Everything I've needed to say has been stated, and if you continue to find loopholes with the things I've said, I won't be here to read them or reply back. I'm done with this thread because there's nothing else to be said.
Yup, you're right, that just about says it all.

And just what I thought.
 
D

D Wilson

Guest
How can you guys try or demo the K Factor series when it's now out?
Maybe your sponsored, but my pro coach (Ranked 300 in the world) is sponsored and said K Factor's not coming out till late January.
 

phat

Rookie
It's availble in Asia already..... and with all the arguements on the weight of the racquet, K90 has the weigh of 320g with more HH balance than the US/ Euro version. I wish there's 2 version in the rest of the world so the players can pick accordingly.
 

SFrazeur

Legend
No, I don't. Why? :confused:
It shows. While I have not come close to to being a father, I have been around children a rather lot as an instructor. What parents say is true, you have to pick your battles. The final part of your conflict with Alpinecadet, was it worth it to go after him on a matter of a technicality? Did you win, were you right, or were you so relentless that he gave up?

How would you like to discuss matters with someone that always had to be right, always. You do not always want to be right. BreakPoint you are relentless, which in moderation is wonderful trait. But, learn to let go.
When you win, when you are right, you feel good. But when you have a "win", because you are relentless, and forced the other person exhaustion, is that right? When your overwhelmingly need to be right, which honestly you have, is at the expense of others, is it worth it?

BreakPoint, I have almost always agreed with you on most issues. In fact whenever I have spoken against you, it has always been becasue you go too far. It does not have to be a knock out. You do not need to K.O. to be in the right.


-S. Frazeur
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
It's availble in Asia already..... and with all the arguements on the weight of the racquet, K90 has the weigh of 320g with more HH balance than the US/ Euro version. I wish there's 2 version in the rest of the world so the players can pick accordingly.
320g is the Asian version of the K90. The US version is 340g. Both are the same static weights as the Asian and US versions of the nCode 90, respectively. These are unstrung weights.

Yes, I also wish Wilson would release both versions worldwide and let the customer choose which weight is more suitable for them, just like they used to do with all wood racquets, which came in Light, Medium, and Heavy versions.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
SFrazeur,
Sorry if it seemed as if I went "too far". And if I did, I certainly apologize to AlpineCadet. I was merely trying to ascertain how much credibility there was in his claims that "many of his friends said that the K90 swings heavier than the nCode 90" since, as you know, one of the primary reasons why I'm interested in the K90 is that many people here have reported that it swings easier than the nCode 90 (which I found hard to keep swinging fast for several hours). So I was just trying to determine how many friends he was talking about that have tried the K90 and said it swings heavier than the nCode 90. I'm just trying to compare how many people think it swings heavier to how many people think it swings lighter, as I think whatever that ratio is, it is relevant to this discussion. Anyway, he still hasn't replied with exactly how many people he knows that said the K90 swings heavier, so for all we know, it was just that one guy Jeff (the Assistant Manager) who has the K95 and is a long-time nCode 95 user who claimed that the K95 swings heavier than the nCode 95. I'm still not sure if he actually played with the K90 and the nCode side-by-side, since AC refuses to provide any details. Who knows? It may just have been an off-the-cuff comment by this one guy Jeff.
 
Does an 'official spec' SW necessarily determine a rackets feel while swinging it, when compared to a racket with identical SW numbers?
Well, yes. And no. ;)

I think the 'official specs' serve to put you in the 'ballpark' (at least). They are especially helpful when trying to 'narrow the field' amongst frames you might want to demo.

However there is also very clearly a good deal of variability when it comes to each individual player's PERCEPTION of swingweight and how it affects playability.

Best,

CC
 
Then is perfectly normal that two different players perceive any of two similar racquets, like the k and the n90, as easier to swing than the other one. Don't you think?.
 
Then is perfectly normal that two different players perceive any of two similar racquets, like the k and the n90, as easier to swing than the other one. Don't you think?.

Absolutely, and that's especially true if you aren't VERY familiar with the 'reference frame', which in this case is the n90.

My educated guess is that most people will percieve them BOTH to be fairly difficult to swing if they are accustomed to lighter frames. ;)

Best,

CC
 

AlpineCadet

Hall of Fame
SFrazeur,
Sorry if it seemed as if I went "too far". And if I did, I certainly apologize to AlpineCadet. I was merely trying to ascertain how much credibility there was in his claims that "many of his friends said that the K90 swings heavier than the nCode 90" since, as you know, one of the primary reasons why I'm interested in the K90 is that many people here have reported that it swings easier than the nCode 90 (which I found hard to keep swinging fast for several hours). So I was just trying to determine how many friends he was talking about that have tried the K90 and said it swings heavier than the nCode 90. I'm just trying to compare how many people think it swings heavier to how many people think it swings lighter, as I think whatever that ratio is, it is relevant to this discussion. Anyway, he still hasn't replied with exactly how many people he knows that said the K90 swings heavier, so for all we know, it was just that one guy Jeff (the Assistant Manager) who has the K95 and is a long-time nCode 95 user who claimed that the K95 swings heavier than the nCode 95. I'm still not sure if he actually played with the K90 and the nCode side-by-side, since AC refuses to provide any details. Who knows? It may just have been an off-the-cuff comment by this one guy Jeff.

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BTW, the swingweight is 336? Wow, that's a whopping 10 points higher than the SW spec of the nCode 90! :-o

I hope this is another case of the swingweight spec not being an accurate indicator of how the racquet actually swings in real play because the nCode 90 was plenty hard to swing already.
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With that said, do you think a play test before you buy the racket would be your best bet?
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
With that said, do you think a play test before you buy the racket would be your best bet?
Nope, not for me. I'm still going to buy them without a demo because I trust Craig and all of his years of experience playing tennis and swinging PS 6.0 85's and nCode 90's. Besides, remember that Craig modified his nCode 90's by cutting away the bumper guard and getting its swingweight down to 318. So if the K90's SW was truly 336, which would make it much, much more difficult to swing, I'd think he would have noticed.

BTW, here's my comment on the K90's SW spec from that other thread:

As far as the actual swingweight of the K90 and how it swings in actual play, I would go with Craig's human empirical estimate of "low to mid 320's" more than I would with TW's inanimate machine measured estimate of "336".

As most of us know, the measured SW spec is not always an accurate indicator of how a particular racquet swings and maneuvers in actual tennis play. For example, TW measured the swingweight of the Volkl DNX 10 Mid they sent to me to playtest as 331, but during my playtest, it felt more like 320 to me. I'm assuming it's the same case with the K90.
 

AlpineCadet

Hall of Fame
I also find it odd that the swingweight of the k90 conflicts with what Craig C. stated about the racket during his play test. But in consideration of everything, and since I'm used to the 332 swingweight of my Prostaff Tour 90, I wonder how the k90 will actually feel for me while swinging it around on the courts for a few hours. I can't wait to demo the racket.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
FWIW, I found the PS Tour 90 to be a bit harder to swing than the nCode 90. So as far as the measured swingweight spec of the PS Tour 90 being higher than that of the nCode 90, I'd have to agree with that one.
 

AlpineCadet

Hall of Fame
Yeah, I actually loved the n90 in terms of balance and weight, it's just the ncode thing... it bothers me. ;) You know, I actually settled on the pst90, and once I got the hang of it, swinging became easier.. also I think it's the best wilson racket so far. I wonder if the k90 will make things much easier for me.
 
Nope, not for me. I'm still going to buy them without a demo because I trust Craig and all of his years of experience playing tennis and swinging PS 6.0 85's and nCode 90's. Besides, remember that Craig modified his nCode 90's by cutting away the bumper guard and getting its swingweight down to 318. So if the K90's SW was truly 336, which would make it much, much more difficult to swing, I'd think he would have noticed.

BTW, here's my comment on the K90's SW spec from that other thread:
Hey BP,

I appreciate the vote of confidence! ;)

Truth is I am very confident in what I wrote in that review. If the K90 FELT or had 'SWUNG LIKE' a 336 measured SW, there is NO WAY I would have purchased one.

Please let me know (and us ALL know!) what you find when yours arrive.
What's the TW estimated delivery date now?

Best,

Craig
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Hey BP,

I appreciate the vote of confidence! ;)

Truth is I am very confident in what I wrote in that review. If the K90 FELT or had 'SWUNG LIKE' a 336 measured SW, there is NO WAY I would have purchased one.

Please let me know (and us ALL know!) what you find when yours arrive.
What's the TW estimated delivery date now?

Best,

Craig
No problem, Craig! I (and we) appreciate your reviews and feedback and all your patience in answering all of our annoying little questions. :D

Looks like the "in-stock" date for all but the 4 1/2 grips is still 1/29: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/OrderProduct.html?PCODE=K61T90

Did TW give you a ship date when you placed your order?
 
No problem, Craig! I (and we) appreciate your reviews and feedback and all your patience in answering all of our annoying little questions. :D

Looks like the "in-stock" date for all but the 4 1/2 grips is still 1/29: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/OrderProduct.html?PCODE=K61T90

Did TW give you a ship date when you placed your order?
Gladly!

I picked mine up locally and they tell me they should have it in hand tomorrow, Wed at latest.

Best,

CC
 
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