Kyrgios’ abnormal obsession with Djokovic continues

Nick loves to say he’s 2-0 against Novak, but fails to mention he played him both times during his slump when he was losing to guys like Taro Daniel. No way Nick wins either of those matches if he didn’t catch Novak when he did.
 
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Yellowmamba2324 said:
Nick loves to say he’s 2-0 against Novak, but fails to mention he played him both times during his slump when he was losing to guys like Taro Daniel. No way Nick wins either of those matches if he didn’t catch Novak when he did.
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That logic is not held up by Djokovic's fans regarding Djokovic beating Rafa in 2015, Rafa's worst year in his career formwise losing to the likes of Berrer and several other occasions when Rafa was just returning from being sidelined from injury or playing with injury.
 
clayqueen said:
That logic is not held up by Djokovic's fans regarding Djokovic beating Rafa in 2015, Rafa's worst year in his career formwise losing to the likes of Berrer and several other occasions when Rafa was just returning from being sidelined from injury or playing with injury.
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Nobody treats that as a win over peak Nadal, yet still I think any win over Nadal is better than 0 wins over Nadal at RG. But how clayqueen of you to turn this into Nadal defençia
 
clayqueen said:
That logic is not held up by Djokovic's fans regarding Djokovic beating Rafa in 2015, Rafa's worst year in his career formwise losing to the likes of Berrer and several other occasions when Rafa was just returning from being sidelined from injury or playing with injury.
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For once, I agree with you :)

Novak fans also brag a lot about how he beat "peak Federer" (the 2015 "he said so himself" edition), who lost to Seppi, Monfils, Ramos-Vanolas, Wawrinka, Isner and Kyrgios...

Rest of career against the same players: 40-3
 
junior74 said:
For once, I agree with you :)

Novak fans also brag a lot about how he beat "peak Federer" (the 2015 "he said so himself" edition), who lost to Seppi, Monfils, Ramos-Vanolas, Wawrinka, Isner and Kyrgios...

Rest of career against the same players: 40-3
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Who says 2015 was peak Fed. Don't think it's fair to say he was a low level at Wimbledon or the USO that year either. Or the 2016 AO for that matter.
 
Red Rick said:
Who says 2015 was peak Fed. Don't think it's fair to say he was a low level at Wimbledon or the USO that year either. Or the 2016 AO for that matter.
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2015 W and USO were not low level Fed, and I have never heard anyone say that. But he was also far from his best, despite "he said so himself".

Six losses to players he is otherwise 40-3 against, does not suggest very high level.
 
clayqueen said:
That logic is not held up by Djokovic's fans regarding Djokovic beating Rafa in 2015, Rafa's worst year in his career formwise losing to the likes of Berrer and several other occasions when Rafa was just returning from being sidelined from injury or playing with injury.
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junior74 said:
For once, I agree with you :)

Novak fans also brag a lot about how he beat "peak Federer" (the 2015 "he said so himself" edition), who lost to Seppi, Monfils, Ramos-Vanolas, Wawrinka, Isner and Kyrgios...

Rest of career against the same players: 40-3
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Except that Djokovic has beaten Nadal and Federer another 50 times or so outside of 2015 which gives no reason to question his credentials in those match ups. Kyrgios played Djokovic only in his very worst season. Never before and so far hasn't since. You got way too cute ignoring the big picture.
 
junior74 said:
2015 W and USO were not low level Fed, and I have never heard anyone say that. But he was also far from his best, despite "he said so himself".

Six losses to players he is otherwise 40-3 against, does not suggest very high level.
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Destroying top players in semis would suggest otherwise and I think that counts a little more than the lower floor and random losses in events he cared less for. No peak Federer, but I think it's still a very high level.
 
Red Rick said:
Destroying top players in semis would suggest otherwise and I think that counts a little more than the lower floor and random losses in events he cared less for. No peak Federer, but I think it's still a very high level.
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My take: Fed and Djokovic at their best are very close, but Djokovic will never know what it's like to face someone roughly on his level (off clay) who is 6 years younger because there has been no one. That to me does not mean he has had an easier path to his slams, but it explains why he has the slam edge. So to me the total of the slams is more indicative of the relative strength of both players, and of course if he wins more slams (which I believe he will), ultimately that's the only thing the world will remember, with tie breakers for other stats.

I think in 2015 Fed was near peak in results, but it's unfair to conclude that the best he did that year was truly peak, even with an improved backhand (due to better technology).
 
TheAssassin said:
Except that Djokovic has beaten Nadal and Federer another 50 times or so outside of 2015 which gives no reason to question his credentials in those match ups. Kyrgios played Djokovic only in his very worst season. Never before and so far hasn't since. You got way too cute ignoring the big picture.
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It wasn't really about that. It was about Novak beating Rafa at RG2015, which was just as bad as Novak's 2017. The Federer 2015 was just a sidenote. Many claim Federer was at his best, because "he said so himself". No biggie :)
 
Red Rick said:
Destroying top players in semis would suggest otherwise and I think that counts a little more than the lower floor and random losses in events he cared less for. No peak Federer, but I think it's still a very high level.
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Losing to Seppi at AO = Losing to Istomin at AO.

What does "very high level" mean, anyway? He won 0 slams. He made 2 finals. One of his weakest slam seasons. Of course he got even worse in 2016 with 2 semi finals and surgery.

Djokovic' 2010 season was same level result wise, but "everyone" agrees it was a poor season. His fans are laughing at that season - "lost to Mugdick, lol".
 
junior74 said:
Losing to Seppi at AO = Losing to Istomin at AO.

What does "very high level" mean, anyway? He won 0 slams. He made 2 finals. One of his weakest slam seasons. Of course he got even worse in 2016 with 2 semi finals and surgery.

Djokovic' 2010 season was same level result wise, but "everyone" agrees it was a poor season. His fans are laughing at that season - "lost to Mugdick, lol".
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Seriously treating form over a year as totally homogenous is nonsense. But if we are going to, Djokovic was 57.5 and 58% of games won on HC in 2009/2010, Federer was at 61.5%, and that's with Djokovic being a better returner who should have an easier time padding those stats. in 2015/2016 Fed went 3 Slams, only losing to Djokovic, losing a grand total of 2 sets to other players. Can't be that bad. 2015 was actually the first year since 2009 he made more than 1 Slam final in a year.

You're starting at the result and reasoning back from that. He lost to Djokovic so it must've been terrible.
 
Gary Duane said:
My take: Fed and Djokovic at their best are very close, but Djokovic will never know what it's like to face someone roughly on his level (off clay) who is 6 years younger because there has been no one. That to me does not mean he has had an easier path to his slams, but it explains why he has the slam edge. So to me the total of the slams is more indicative of the relative strength of both players, and of course if he wins more slams (which I believe he will), ultimately that's the only thing the world will remember, with tie breakers for other stats.

I think in 2015 Fed was near peak in results, but it's unfair to conclude that the best he did that year was truly peak, even with an improved backhand (due to better technology).
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I think Fed was sluggish to adapt to Djokovic and Nadal, but I don't know how much of his forehand declining was because of changes in racket and how much was decreased physicality.
 
Red Rick said:
I think Fed was sluggish to adapt to Djokovic and Nadal, but I don't know how much of his forehand declining was because of changes in racket and how much was decreased physicality.
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To an extent I think he drank the media Kool-Aid about his greatness and didn’t think that he needed to adapt much early on. For a long time he was very tactically stubborn against Nadal, and then later he underestimated Djokovic until he didn’t have that much prime tennis left in the tank. He took him seriously after 2011 but then had only one more prime year before injuries struck in 2013. The racquet change earlier on might have helped against Nadal but it would have lessened the FH against the field
 
TheAssassin said:
Except that Djokovic has beaten Nadal and Federer another 50 times or so outside of 2015 which gives no reason to question his credentials in those match ups. Kyrgios played Djokovic only in his very worst season. Never before and so far hasn't since. You got way too cute ignoring the big picture.
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That's a silly point to make. Rafa has also beaten Federer and Djokovic 51 times - 24 and 27 times respectively. The only reason Djokovic has a 2 match lead over Nadal in their h2h is because Djokovic has had the luck to play a less than 100% fit Nadal on many occasions.
 
clayqueen said:
That's a silly point to make. Rafa has also beaten Federer and Djokovic 51 times - 24 and 27 times respectively. The only reason Djokovic has a 2 match lead over Nadal in their h2h is because Djokovic has had to luck to play a less than 100% fit Nadal on many occasions.
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Nadal is never 100% fit, come on now! 8-B
 
RelentlessAttack said:
To an extent I think he drank the media Kool-Aid about his greatness and didn’t think that he needed to adapt much early on. For a long time he was very tactically stubborn against Nadal, and then later he underestimated Djokovic until he didn’t have that much prime tennis left in the tank. The racquet change earlier on might have helped against Nadal but it would have lessened the FH against the field
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Yeah he became nearly unbeatable overnight, so some point he had like 12 Slams and was still relatively inexperienced in playing true 50/50, super even matches at that level. He'd always win by being better.
 
clayqueen said:
That's a silly point to make. Rafa has also beaten Federer and Djokovic 51 times - 24 and 27 times respectively. The only reason Djokovic has a 2 match lead over Nadal in their h2h is because Djokovic has had the luck to play a less than 100% fit Nadal on many occasions.
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We all know that Nadal is an injured person who plays tennis.
 
clayqueen said:
That logic is not held up by Djokovic's fans regarding Djokovic beating Rafa in 2015, Rafa's worst year in his career formwise losing to the likes of Berrer and several other occasions when Rafa was just returning from being sidelined from injury or playing with injury.
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You are comparing Rafa at his best slam with Novak at some meaningless tournament? Really?
 
How did this thread go from Kyrgios and Djokovic to Nadal and Djokovic? Swear this board needs a plague to get rid of all these Nadal accounts.
 
clayqueen said:
That logic is not held up by Djokovic's fans regarding Djokovic beating Rafa in 2015, Rafa's worst year in his career formwise losing to the likes of Berrer and several other occasions when Rafa was just returning from being sidelined from injury or playing with injury.
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What about 2011 when he beat Rafa in like 6-7 straight finals? I agree though how did this turn into a Rafa vs Djokovic debate? I personally think the big 3 are all great and it’s splitting hairs between them. They’ve all beaten each other countless times. My point was more, Nick likes to tell Murray Djokovic sucks cuz he beat him in two single encounters during a very ****ty 1-2 month period in Djokovics career. Rafa and Novak have played each other a million times so there’s no comparison.
 
Yellowmamba2324 said:
What about 2011 when he beat Rafa in like 6-7 straight finals? I agree though how did this turn into a Rafa vs Djokovic debate? I personally think the big 3 are all great and it’s splitting hairs between them. They’ve all beaten each other countless times. My point was more, Nick likes to tell Murray Djokovic sucks cuz he beat him in two single encounters during a very ****ty 1-2 month period in Djokovics career. Rafa and Novak have played each other a million times so there’s no comparison.
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Djokovic had a good year in 2011 but since 2012 Rafa has been injured sooooooo many times and hasn't had the luxury to keep his rhythm going having to stop, recover, regain his game then another injury and so on and so on. No one can deny that Djokovic hasn't capitalised on that.
 
Yellowmamba2324 said:
Nick loves to say he’s 2-0 against Novak, but fails to mention he played him both times during his slump when he was losing to guys like Taro Daniel. No way Nick wins either of those matches if he didn’t catch Novak when he did.
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100% agreed. Back during the mid-2000s there was a player named Dominic Hrbaty who was 2-0 against Roger Federer. He had beaten him early on in his career and was one of the very few active players to have a perfect record against Federer.

I'm sure that Dominic was very proud of this unique accomplishment but he didn't go around bragging about it on Twitter.

Ironically enough, Dominik Hrbaty's career has so far been a lot better than Nick Kyrgios'.
 
clayqueen said:
Djokovic had a good year in 2011 but since 2012 Rafa has been injured sooooooo many times and hasn't had the luxury to keep his rhythm going having to stop, recover, regain his game then another injury and so on and so on. No one can deny that Djokovic hasn't capitalised on that.
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Sure, but it's impossible to play like Nadal and not be injury prone. That's the tradeoff.
 
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