Kyrgios : Djokovic most complete player I have ever played

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Uhm, do you have Nadal's ?
Nadal didn't make a semi in 2015, but I have stats from his 2015 FO matches:

1R-4R matches:
net points: 53
net points won: 69
total points played: 725
net approach %: 9.52%
net pts won %: 76.81%

1R-QF matches (includes loss to Djokovic):
net points: 64
net points won: 93
total points played: 898
net approach %: 10.36%
net pts won %: 68.82%

So why did Nadal approach the net more against Djokovic? Probably because of a healthy dose of this:



Here you can also see how bad Novak's touch is around the net :D
 
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D

Deleted member 716271

Guest
Nadal didn't make a semi in 2015, but I have stats from his 2015 FO matches:

1R-4R matches:
net points: 53
net points won: 69
total points played: 725
net approach %: 9.52%
net pts won %: 76.81%

1R-QF matches (includes loss to Djokovic):
net points: 64
net points won: 93
total points played: 898
net approach %: 10.36%
net pts won %: 68.82%

So why did Nadal approach the net more against Djokovic? Probably because of a healthy dose of this:



Here you can also see how bad Novak's touch is around the net :D

This too

 
D

Deleted member 716271

Guest
125's video is a great reminder of just how great Djoko's defensive game is. He gets so many gets that no other player can get to. It's just absurd.

Yeah, I actually think he gets to more balls than Nadal, maybe Nadal does more with it when he gets to it especially on clay on average, but in pure defense I think Djokovic is better
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, I actually think he gets to more balls than Nadal, maybe Nadal does more with it when he gets to it especially on clay on average, but in pure defense I think Djokovic is better
I can't see anyone getting to more balls than 05-09 AO Nadal. On the whole I would say peak Nadal's defense on natural surfaces is clearly superior. On hard I would say it's very even, Nadal probably gets to slightly more balls and is better at turning defense to offense(which is lower percentage), but Djokovic has the clear edge in turning defense into a neutral position with a deep shot(which is high percentage for him).
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I find laughable when some posters praise Andy net game(on Djok expense) - slice and volleys,in almost every of their mathces Myrray is the one who is outsliced, outsmarted and out volleyed .
Novak is not the best at net in his era , but can be very decent one.

hilarious, Murray getting outsliced by djokovic - when ?

djokovic's slice was wayyy too weak compared to Murray before Becker. Since Becker, he's had a ok slice and able to counter Murray's slices with his own, but not outslice him.

I will agree that djoko's net game is under-rated compared to Murray. Murray has the better touch clearly, but Djoko utilises his net game quite a bit more ..
 
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Deleted member 716271

Guest
I can't see anyone getting to more balls than 05-09 AO Nadal. On the whole I would say peak Nadal's defense on natural surfaces is clearly superior. On hard I would say it's very even, Nadal probably gets to slightly more balls and is better at turning defense to offense(which is lower percentage), but Djokovic has the clear edge in turning defense into a neutral position with a deep shot(which is high percentage for him).

Don't think so, best bet to settle this would be to find who won a larger percentage of long rallies (12, 14, maybe 16 shots) between the 2 on each surface in H2H matchups. not perfect way of deciding, but would be curious to see
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
I dont care if Novak is the most complete player of all time. His game is damn boring. Kyrgios 10 times more interesting to watch.
Hit some winners for gods sake novak, dont understand how himself doesnt get bored of playing like he does. Novak has an annoying personality too.
 

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
I dont care if Novak is the most complete player of all time. His game is damn boring. Kyrgios 10 times more interesting to watch.
Hit some winners for gods sake novak, dont understand how himself doesnt get bored of playing like he does. Novak has an annoying personality too.
You don't know what you're talking about.
 

junior74

Bionic Poster
To call someone the most complete player ever right after you've beaten him, is Rogerish arrogance. I love it :cool:


Kyrgios may never get the "honour" of playing against peak Djokovic.
 
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Noelan

Legend
hilarious, Murray getting outsliced by djokovic - when ?

djokovic's slice was wayyy too weak compared to Murray before Becker. Since Becker, he's had a ok slice and able to counter Murray's slices with his own, but not outslice him.

I will agree that djoko's net game is under-rated compared to Murray. Murray has the better touch clearly, but Djoko utilises his net game quite a bit more ..
For start watch USO14 Miami , Shanghai, any of their AO Finals, recently Doha..:oops:
You don't know what you're talking about.
AngieC- knows what she is talking about
 
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Deleted member 3771

Guest
How many times did Shokavish come to net when he lost to Kyrgios?
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
For start watch USO14 Miami , Shanghai, any of their AO Finals, recently Doha..:oops:

Lol, djoko getting competent in one area gets turned into him outclassing the other guy in that area...You know what that's called ?Fanboyism..
 

Noelan

Legend
Lol, djoko getting competent in one area gets turned into him outclassing the other guy in that area...You know what that's called ?Fanboyism..
Don't twist my words, read again- I wrote outsliced . Novak ugly slice worked many times against Murray as part of tactical approach to the match up (to disrupt Andys own rhythm, change the the pace..). Novak sometimes just like to play on opponents strenghts (as fed fanboy you should know that from their matches,playing on FH ofc)
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Don't twist my words, read again- I wrote outsliced . Novak ugly slice worked many times against Murray as part of tactical approach to the match up (to disrupt Andys own rhythm, change the the pace..). Novak sometimes just like to play on opponents strenghts (as fed fanboy you should know that from their matches,playing on FH ofc)

yes, outsliced means being better on the slice ...which he wasn't.

he stopped his own rhythm from being disturbed by murray's slice/junkballing ...but as far as disrupting Murray's rhythm goes, only to some extent.

Murray's slice was still clearly better even from 2014 onwards in their matches ...
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic has the most underrated net game ever. The table below is based on stats from all Slam semifinalists in 2015 (from their R1-QF matches):

WCDtfzF.png


Considering how often Novak approaches the net and his success rate up there, I'd say he has at least a competent net game.

I have been looking for numbers such as these cause I knew he had solid ass numbers up There that shows how people underrate him.
 

Noelan

Legend
yes, outsliced means being better on the slice ...which he wasn't.

he stopped his own rhythm from being disturbed by murray's slice/junkballing ...but as far as disrupting Murray's rhythm goes, only to some extent.

Murray's slice was still clearly better even from 2014 onwards in their matches ...
Yes he was better ( in matches that I mentioned):cool:
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Yes he was better ( in matches that I mentioned):cool:
Like I said :

"Lol, djoko getting competent in one area gets turned into him outclassing the other guy in that area...You know what that's called ?Fanboyism.."

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
 

Noelan

Legend
Like I said :

"Lol, djoko getting competent in one area gets turned into him outclassing the other guy in that area...You know what that's called ?Fanboyism.."

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

With simpleton of your calibre it's undarstandable
 
C

Charlie

Guest
I dont care if Novak is the most complete player of all time. His game is damn boring. Kyrgios 10 times more interesting to watch.
Hit some winners for gods sake novak, dont understand how himself doesnt get bored of playing like he does. Novak has an annoying personality too.
Obviously it's a myth that he doesn't hit them, but anyway how come you like Nadal so much if you have a problem with lower number of winners? :eek:
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
arguably s&v is dead, so you don't need to have a good approach/overhead/volley to be a complete player in todays ATP :p
 

Drlexus

Banned
Apparently, he needs your permission.



I am mesmerized by the mix of expertise, insight and mind-reading abilities.

That is what this sentence means.

Presumably.



I thought that you, being an old member of this forum, would know that this is a regular topic here and not only between Federer and Djokovic but also between Federer and other ATGs from previous generations.

:cool:
Only been here since the australian open so hardly an old member
 

CivicLx

Hall of Fame
When Kyrgios increases the h2h to 2-0 vs Novak, will that make him the most kompleterist player of all time:eek:
:D
 
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