Kyrgios penalty is a joke

#1
To fine a guy less than 50K pounds including prize money when the guy is a worth millions and will likely be worth over 20 million when his career is over amounts to a token or negligible penalty.

Less than your average joe losing a dollar from a hole in his pocket.

The ATP Tour are basically saying to the players that anything goes out there on court - and that a slap on the wrist is all that will eventuate.

A one to two month penalty with a further suspended penalty of another 6 months if another serious breach occurs should have been the minimum penalty.

They are sending a message out to tennis in general that carrying on like a complete Buffon on court is no big deal.

When his behaviour on court is a big deal.
 

Bartelby

Talk Tennis Guru
#3
50k pounds for throwing a chair is, what I would call, a stiff penalty for such a cheap chair.

I know people always wish the greatest possible harm to others when they think they have morality on their side, but if you measure the fine by the winnings for that match it is a very substantial fine.

You can't fine people by what you presume they would be worth over the entirety of their career. That would be absurd as well as speculative, and grotesquely disproportionate to the offence.
 
#4
50k pounds for throwing a chair is, what I would call, a stiff penalty for such a cheap chair.

I know people always wish the greatest possible harm to others when they think they have morality on their side, but if you measure the fine by the winnings for that match it is a very substantial fine.

You can't fine people by what you presume they would be worth over the entirety of their career. That would be absurd as well as speculative, and grotesquely disproportionate to the offence.
I saw the match again, and took notice of all the CCs he got. None were over the top imo, except arguably the last one, after he threw his racket on the ground (#4). That's when he threw the chair. However, in both throwing instances, the throws were pretty meak, nothing compared to f.inst. Medvedev who lost it against Kyrgios in the previous match, and obliterated his racket. I have no issue acknowledging Medvedev's frustration though - sometimes this happens, and you move on.

I think the match default was warranted, as well as the fines and points detraction. More than that, would be out of order imo.
Serena's meltdown process at the US Open was way worse.
 
#5
To fine a guy less than 50K pounds including prize money when the guy is a worth millions and will likely be worth over 20 million when his career is over amounts to a token or negligible penalty.

Less than your average joe losing a dollar from a hole in his pocket.

The ATP Tour are basically saying to the players that anything goes out there on court - and that a slap on the wrist is all that will eventuate.

A one to two month penalty with a further suspended penalty of another 6 months if another serious breach occurs should have been the minimum penalty.

They are sending a message out to tennis in general that carrying on like a complete Buffon on court is no big deal.

When his behaviour on court is a big deal.
ERMERGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD!!!!! lol
 
#7
50k pounds for throwing a chair is, what I would call, a stiff penalty for such a cheap chair.

I know people always wish the greatest possible harm to others when they think they have morality on their side, but if you measure the fine by the winnings for that match it is a very substantial fine.

You can't fine people by what you presume they would be worth over the entirety of their career. That would be absurd as well as speculative, and grotesquely disproportionate to the offence.
I saw the match again, and took notice of all the CCs he got. None were over the top imo, except arguably the last one, after he threw his racket on the ground (#4). That's when he threw the chair. However, in both throwing instances, the throws were pretty meak, nothing compared to f.inst. Medvedev who lost it against Kyrgios in the previous match, and obliterated his racket. I have no issue acknowledging Medvedev's frustration though - sometimes this happens, and you move on.

I think the match default was warranted, as well as the fines and points detraction. More than that, would be out of order imo.
Serena's meltdown process at the US Open was way worse.
I think you guys are normalizing this kind of behavior by saying a fine is enough and everyone should forget about it and move on. I'm not against showing emotion, like yelling and maybe even breaking rackets.. but there was a line that was crossed when he threw that chair across the court like some sort of mad man. That kind of behavior especially in a public setting was becoming only of a very badly spoiled kid or someone with mental issues. On top of that, Kyrgios didn't look like he cared or learned a thing when he was walking off the court because he acts like this all the time anyway. To me it looks like he thinks it's okay to act like this as long as he cops the fine. A suspension is warranted here imo.
 
#9
Forget the fine and ATP points. The guy needs to be suspended again from the sport. How many times are they going to allow him to keep ruining the reputation of the sport? I don't want to visit tennis websites or watch tennis coverage and see the main story be about what controversial thing Kyrgios did each week.

Literally every tennis news story is about it today. Do people even care about the actual tennis anymore? Is this really what "sport" has been reduced to? Having to generate attention by focusing on the disgusting attitude of a deliquent? Ugh.
 
#16
I see what you're saying. But PCB has shown the ability to apologize and learn from his actions, Kyrgios has not. I don't think continued punishments of the same severity work on Kyrgios.
On the contrary: Kyrgios shook his opponent's and the umpire's hand and has accepted that what he has done is wrong.

The punishment should be related to the deed, not to some perceived effectiveness of the previous one.

:cool:
 
#17
That is unrelated to the insistence for suspension.

Kyrgios has already suffered all his previous sanctions.

:cool:
Maybe, but how you can compare those two? I mean morally from your side... Its not ok and you know that.

Kyrgios bad behavior have to stop.
My punishment would be 2 months suspension and next serious incident 6 months... And so on... 6 months for every next such implode... He is just bad exsample for everybody...
 

Bartelby

Talk Tennis Guru
#18
It seemed like it was a very desultory act rather than that of an mad man. It's a substantial fine, but I really don't think he responds to external discipline.

I also think that the game almost enjoys having some bad behaviour, within limits, to enliven the news pages. Not that they would admit to this possibility.

I think you guys are normalizing this kind of behavior by saying a fine is enough and everyone should forget about it and move on. I'm not against showing emotion, like yelling and maybe even breaking rackets.. but there was a line that was crossed when he threw that chair across the court like some sort of mad man. That kind of behavior especially in a public setting was becoming only of a very badly spoiled kid or someone with mental issues. On top of that, Kyrgios didn't look like he cared or learned a thing when he was walking off the court because he acts like this all the time anyway. To me it looks like he thinks it's okay to act like this as long as he cops the fine. A suspension is warranted here imo.
 
Last edited:
#19
Nick’ meltdown was a shame of course and he deserves and penalties. But to me calling the umpire ‘thief’ and ‘liar’ then going on to blame it on sexism is way worse than Nick’s behaviour today and what did Serena Williams got as a penalty? Less than $20,000 fine? Nick at least apologised
Don't you realise Serena has a DAUGHTER????? Nick has no daughter, he has no excuse.

Seriously, Big overreaction to Nicks behaviour here. Nick throwing tantrums and generally being a Tsit is irrelevant compared to the problem of slow play that dogs the game.

The former does not put potential viewers off, the latter does.
 
#20
Kyrgios said, "I'm done," signalling that he no longer wanted to play. He then showed he didn't care about what he had just done by acting like completely nothing had happened. That's not the same as apologizing and learning from your actions. When he shook his opponent's and the umpire's hand did he say "I'm really sorry, it won't happen again?" No, he was just completing his "I don't give a **** about anything" routine. That was my interpretation anyway.

I don't agree at all.
So, you wanted him to show regret the moment the incident happened? I thought that him even doing what he did to show some respect to the umpire/opponent was extraordinarily level-headed for such a heated situation?

"I am really sorry, it won't happen again". Really?

:cool:
 
#21
It seemed like it was a very desultory act rather than that of an mad man. It's a substantial fine, but I really don't think he responds to external discipline.

I also think that the game almost enjoys having some bad behaviour, within limits, to enliven the news pages.
Hmm, maybe you are right. I just rewatched it from a different angle on someones phone and it didn't seem as bad as when I first watched it. I still think it's poor he's throwing an object that could easily hit and hurt someone and it's not his property either.
 
#23
So, you wanted him to show regret the moment the incident happened? I thought that him even doing what he did to show some respect to the umpire/opponent was extraordinarily level-headed for such a heated situation?

"I am really sorry, it won't happen again". Really?

:cool:
I was just refuting that him shaking the opponent's hand and the umpire's did not necessarily mean he had "accepted" what had happened, and falls very short from what I originally said.
"shown the ability to apologize and learn from his actions " is not the same as "accepting what happened". That wasn't my interpretation of his actions anyway.
 
#25
Also, "Kyrgios bad behaviour has to stop": no it hasn't. People that haven't seen McEnroe, Nasty, Connors etc have no idea what insults and bad behaviour on the highest level are. He is basically venting his frustration without even addressing someone in particular, which is the most innocent sort of frustration/bad behaviour.
^this^

Some of the biggest brands in the history of tennis totally eclipse anything Kyrgios or Nini or Serena have ever done.

You think Kyrgios is unsportsmanlike? Look into Connors.
You think Kyrgios goes of his rockers on court? Look into McEnroe.

Those who think Kyrgios is way out of line, should take a deep breath, and compare his actions with other sports of their preference.


.... and ....

... wait for it ...

Roger Federer agrees.
 
#26
You should put your thoughts in order, as your post shows that you don't know what you wanted to say (that regarding whether you wanted to claim that he accepted or didn't accept the situation. He did as his handshakes and general behaviour after the incident show).
I originally said Kyrgios had not shown the ability to apologize and learn from his past mistakes. You said "on the contrary, he accepted what he did was wrong." Problem is, accepting what you did was wrong is not the same as apologizing and learning from your actions. And on top of that, I don't think shaking hands with the umpire and his opponent necessarily means he had accepted what he did was wrong, IMO he was going through the motions so he get off the court as fast as possible and was probably thinking to himself "this is such BS." Kyrgios already demonstrated that he doesn't learn anything by continuing his past mistakes over and over again, whereas PCB was an isolated incident. So no I don't need to get my thoughts in order, get yours in order.

PCB also didn't "apologise" there and then, so his situation also doesn't meet your criteria to apologise on the spot. In fact, he a kind of had that tantrum after supposedly acknowledging the umpire and opponent, and left under the booing of the public, which makes your requirement even less applicable in that comparison.
Incorrect, I never said it was part of my criteria that someone has to apologize then and there on the spot for them to meet my supposed critera. What I did do was refute that Kyrgios' actions indicated in any way to me that he had "accepted what he did was wrong," or "apologized and learnt from his actions." You were the one who claimed that they did. What you're doing is strawmaning now.

Also, like I said before, the punishment doesn't have a point to change the person, but to punish him for his actions.
Like I said before, I don't 100% agree with that.
 
#28
He didn't hurt anyone so no I dont think he should be suspended.

The harshest I think it should be is this.

1 default and you get fined all the money from winning your last match plus the ranking points plus all people who bought a ticket get a refund from the match you were defaulted in and this money is taken as a fine from the player.

If you get defaulted again within a certain period of probation, let's say 6 months then all the money and ranking points from that tournament are removed.
 
#29
So, you find that, say, if you are over the speed limit and you get fined, the next time when you are over the speed limit in the same place with the same speed, you should be fined double the amount of your previous fine, next time triple and so on?

:cool:
Repeated fines result in the loss of your license, so bad example. And there's plenty of other examples where repeated actions result in more serious punishments, for example code violations in tennis.
 
#32
and that's exactly what happened

he got 4 violations so he got defaulted. at one point he was under some kind of probation, which isn't a bad idea
Sure, but I don't think a suspension is out of the cards either since this kind of behavior from his not surprising at all and is sure to be repeated. Hope i'm wrong, but that's my opinion.
 
#38
And all this talk about the fine not being enough because he has a lot of money is total bulls**t and the most moronic thing I've read all week. If Bill Gates gets a speeding fine should it be for 20 million dollars? You have to fit the punishment to the crime not the punishment to the individual, otherwise the whole system falls apart. F**k me what a load of nonsense.
Fines adjusted for income is perfectly normal, such as in the parts of the Nordics, and it's frankly more logical than its opposite.
 
#39
I originally said Kyrgios had not shown the ability to apologize and learn from his past mistakes. You said "on the contrary, he accepted what he did was wrong." Problem is, accepting what you did was wrong is not the same as apologizing and learning from your actions.
There are two points in your objections.

1) whether he accepted what he did: everything points at the conclusion that he did accept the situation: he didn't protest the consequences (the default, the fine), he shook his opponent's and the umpire's hand which acknowledges the decision of ending the match, the win for his opponent and the formal ending of the match, and also that is the right way to acknowledge the opponent and the officials.

2) whether he apologised

Here is his Instagram post: "
k1ngkyrg1os
Verified

Very eventful day to say to the least ‍♂️ Emotions got the better of me and I just wanted to say that the atmosphere was crazy out there today, just super unfortunate that it had to end in a default Sorry Roma, see you again, maybe ✌"


And on top of that, I don't think shaking hands with the umpire and his opponent necessarily means he had accepted what he did was wrong, IMO he was going through the motions so he get off the court as fast as possible and was probably thinking to himself "this is such BS.
The problem is, that is also an interpretation and one that a kind of needs to speculate on some internal dialogue, when the actions were ones of acceptance and, ultimately, understanding. I have seen enough spoiled brats in my lifetime and sore loser handshakes (or no handshakes at all, for that matter) to know that that wasn't a handshake out of some sort of negative feeling or showing disagreement as a whole.

I" Kyrgios already demonstrated that he doesn't learn anything by continuing his past mistakes over and over again, whereas PCB was an isolated incident. So no I don't need to get my thoughts in order, get yours in order.
You are conflating on purpose the apology that he supposedly didn't give, and the long standing inability "to learn", because it is easier to speculate and explain any asinine assumption in his direction with his character flaws. That is what weak debaters do: conflate and transfer arguments in order to obfuscate and consolidate in indistinguishable arguments in an attempt to pull off circular logic.

Also, apparently incidents are punished not based on what happened, but on how regular their occurrence is: OK, what do you think Nadal's punishment for his time violations for over a decade should be?

Incorrect, I never said it was part of my criteria that someone has to apologize then and there on the spot for them to meet my supposed critera. What I did do was refute that Kyrgios' actions indicated in any way to me that he had "accepted what he did was wrong," or "apologized and learnt from his actions." You were the one who claimed that they did. What you're doing is strawmaning now.
Bolded is not true: you said: "I'm done," signalling that he no longer wanted to play. He then showed he didn't care about what he had just done by acting like completely nothing had happened. That's not the same as apologizing and learning from your actions. When he shook his opponent's and the umpire's hand did he say "I'm really sorry, it won't happen again?" No, he was just completing his "I don't give a **** about anything" routine"

So, you must have forgotten what your criteria were originally.

This is as clear as it gets that you consider that he apologised on the spot part of your understanding about whether he apologised at all.

ILike I said before, I don't 100% agree with that.
You don't agree with that at all, or you don't agree with everything I said. It is again unclear what you mean.

Also, "why" is the much more interesting question.

:cool:
 
#41
Sure, but I don't think a suspension is out of the cards either since this kind of behavior from his not surprising at all and is sure to be repeated. Hope i'm wrong, but that's my opinion.
Looking at other defaults;

-Shapo got no punishment except a small fine for seriously injuring an umpire (a more serious offense than what Kyrgios did.)

-Nalbandian got the same sort of punishment as Nick got for kicking a line judge

-Tarango was banned for the following years wimbledon for being defaulted after calling an umpire corrupt. The umpire in this match was known to favour certain players.

-Henman got no punishment for clobbering a ball girl with a tennis ball, Shapo style

-Serena WIlliams got a token fine for effectively the same offense as Tarango committed. She was not actually defaulted.

Apart from the Tarango one, Kyrgios' punishment seems to fall in line with other significant offenses, some of which involved physical assault which is more serious than throwing a chair or shouting at a spectator.

Judging by precedent, Kyrgios' punishment fits in fine.
 
#42
Your perception on the subject its somehow wrong. He could make 20mln but its not a sure thing. From those 20mln he would pay for coachesaround 2-4mln, tour expences 5+ if he plays another ten years, taxes another 20-50% depending on the aussies laws and he is left with what ... 7-8 milions for period of 10-15 years. Suddenly 50 000 are not small of an amount
 
#43
I think I've made clear what I've said. Feel free to disagree, I don't mind. And I don't care as much as people are making out like I am.
It looks bad when you opt out with that explanation, but only when your arguments start to fall apart, but that is your choice. I am saying it, because I have seen that from you a lot, and every time it ends exactly the same way "That is my opinion and I have the right to have it. It is just as valid as anyone's, I don't care anyway, and I don't know why people get so invested in such things".

Yes, you have the right to have an opinion, and you still can be wrong, if you don't care don't argue a lot, as it makes you look like you care, and people are invested in such things because that is a tennis forum, and such situations relate in one way or another to the game of tennis".

:cool:
 
#45
See this is another classic example of what I'm talking about, never did I say this. It would take forever to go through correcting everything you say and it always ends up being fruitless anyway.
I think I've made clear what I've said.1) Feel free to disagree, I don't mind. 2) And I don't care as much as people are making out like I am.

It looks bad when you opt out with that explanation, but only when your arguments start to fall apart, but that is your choice. I am saying it, because I have seen that from you a lot, and every time it ends exactly the same way "1) That is my opinion and I have the right to have it. It is just as valid as anyone's, 2) I don't care anyway, and I don't know why people get so invested in such things".

Yes, you have the right to have an opinion, and you still can be wrong, if you don't care don't argue a lot, as it makes you look like you care, and people are invested in such things because that is a tennis forum, and such situations relate in one way or another to the game of tennis".

:cool:
:cool:
 
#47
I think the fine and default were appropriate. I understand that no amount of sanction will cause a change in Kyrgios and I understand the same about Serena. What I don’t understand and what is irritating is the amount of support both of them get from the fans including this forum. To see those Italian fans routing against a good guy like Ruud was sickening and a sign of the times.
 
#50
The chair throwing and the water bottle crap I don’t care about, not worthy of a ban. What’s crap is using the word ret ard, like really? Hewitt got chewed out over that 15 years ago and yet Kyrgios goes and uses it? I’m surprised that hasn’t been one of the main headlines, Nick literally called the umpire a ****ing ret ard. Gross.
 
Top