Lack of German & Canadian Tennis Greats? (Men)

[BGod]

Germany is a nation that has maintained a rather socialized principle on athletics, in that most sports are very attainable for a large group of people. Tennis does not seem to be one of them with free public courts a rarity (at least these days).

Germany and Austria were home to big racquet manufacturing companies in Head, Dunlop and Volkl. Indeed the only Non-Asian tennis racquet factory in operation is in Austria. It's a country of over 80 million and tennis is fairly popular. Recently you have Roger Federer being the GOAT in nearby Switzerland with Wawrinka winning a couple Slams himself, yet from Germany the best you've gotten since Becker and Stich is Schuttler, Kiefer and Haas. Not counting the 30s, Germany has in effect produced one male tennis great in Boris Becker, winner of 6 Slams. Nothing seems to be on the horizon and thus nearing 50 years of modern tennis, we have 1 great German male tennis player.

Meanwhile, Canada has a ton of public courts and funding for the sport and the Canadian Masters has been one of the best attended secondary events since the 80s. Yet Greg Rusedski bolted for Britain due to laughable funding options in Canada and Milos Raonic seems to be destined for mediocrity and HE was the first Canadian to make a Slam quarter. The country has a large pool of immigrants from tennis mad countries even if Canda's history is still short. The future seems bright but I can't help but be cautiously optimistic due to the lack of even one Slam Finalist (unless counting Rusedski) in the last 40 years.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Federer comes from the german speaking part of Switzerland.

 

[King Fed WW]

Legends are born not made.

Germany has a lot of top 100 players, Switzerland has 2. Look at France, their wonderful system and culture is responsible for their embarrassment of riches in top 100 but sadly for no great has been born.

I really hope France finds a male champion.

Hopefully Milos grabs a slam for Canada. I would be shocked if he never reached a Grand Slam final. I am pretty confident he will win one.

 

[spirit95]

Dumb luck. You can't manufacture great champions, you can only increase the likelihood that people who could go on to become great champions will pick up a racquet at a young enough age.

 

[Murrayjuannow]

Tomic was born in Germany.

 

[Triskadekaphilia]

It's not too late for kohlshreiber.

Seriously tho, you bring up a good point and I don't know the answer. But rusedski jumping ship probably gives some insight-- the sport is probably not well supported or popular in canada and perhaps Germany too, compared to other sports.

 

[rossi46]

Dumb luck. You can't manufacture great champions, you can only increase the likelihood that people who could go on to become great champions will pick up a racquet at a young enough age.

Spot on. Tennis isn't even that big in Switzerland. If you look at the greats that tennis has produced none of them have actually been manufactured i.e. produced by some sort of academy. They are just freakish natural talents eg. Sampras, Borg, Federer, McEnroe.

 

[Murrayjuannow]

ermm, didn't Federer attend the Swiss National Tennis Centre in Lake Geneva when he was 14? He left home to live with a foster family in Ecublens. He phoned his mother everyday back then.

 

[HipRotation]

Tomic was born in Germany.

and McEnroe

 

[Russeljones]

I was thinking about this yesterday. The cyclical nature of champions from a respective nation. If we plot Men/Women, it would be interesting to see which nations managed to maintain the longest uninterrupted lines of major winners (so an overlap in the careers of two winners). That would most probably be the US. But even more interesting would be to see if there were instances of a country producing a champion and this event occurring again and again after XX and YY number of years.

The UK had to wait a long time for a champion. France is still waiting. Germany is waiting. It's fascinating that countries like Sweden and Switzerland produced such champions. Sweden has a total of 26 major titles won which, at today's data, is equal to 0,0000026 major titles per person. For Switzerland this figure stands at 0,0000029 major titles per person. The number of titles for the US is problematic for me. I don't know how to treat majors won by people who became US citizens during the course of their career (Seles/Navratilova for example). I would prefer to award both nations the majors won as corresponds to the country the players officially represented at the time. If someone has suggestions about this, I would welcome them.

 

[insideguy]

Its all cyclical. Germany, the USA, Sweden. All crap on the mens side. When they use to be world powers.

 

[Mainad]

Its all cyclical. Germany, the USA, Sweden. All crap on the mens side. When they use to be world powers.

Include Australia in that list too.

 

[urban]

Tennis isn't popular in Germany nowadays. Becker, Stich and Graf were products of the Tennis boom, which started in Germany in the late 70s and saw an opening of the rigid club system, the setting of open public courts, which allowed more youngsters from school to get on a court. Germany had also a quite good development system. Becker and Graf were coached early on by Boris Breskvar, an official youth coach of the Baden federation. Now the Sport and also the German Federation are in a deep crisis. Stich wanted to become president, but was locked out by the regional federations. A regular development system, which other countries like France, Spain and now Australia have, is not functioning. Fine coaches like Nicola Pilic in Munich, were left out by the federation for a long time and worked on a private basis with foreign players like Djokovic. Ther is also a migration factor in German Tennis(maybe in Swiss Tennis too): Many top youngsters were born or had family origins in East European countries. Maybe those families saw it as a big life chance to get into this sport. Normally German youngsters play Soccer, which overshadows all other sports in media and public.

 

[Flash O'Groove]

I was thinking about this yesterday. The cyclical nature of champions from a respective nation. If we plot Men/Women, it would be interesting to see which nations managed to maintain the longest uninterrupted lines of major winners (so an overlap in the careers of two winners). That would most probably be the US. But even more interesting would be to see if there were instances of a country producing a champion and this event occurring again and again after XX and YY number of years.

The UK had to wait a long time for a champion. France is still waiting. Germany is waiting. It's fascinating that countries like Sweden and Switzerland produced such champions. Sweden has a total of 26 major titles won which, at today's data, is equal to 0,0000026 major titles per person. For Switzerland this figure stands at 0,0000029 major titles per person. The number of titles for the US is problematic for me. I don't know how to treat majors won by people who became US citizens during the course of their career (Seles/Navratilova for example). I would prefer to award both nations the majors won as corresponds to the country the players officially represented at the time. If someone has suggestions about this, I would welcome them.

Seles, Lendl and Navratilova have learned tennis in eastern Europe, I don't think the US have any merits in their success.

Spot on. Tennis isn't even that big in Switzerland. If you look at the greats that tennis has produced none of them have actually been manufactured i.e. produced by some sort of academy. They are just freakish natural talents eg. Sampras, Borg, Federer, McEnroe.

Federer however was nurtured in a national academy though, and received support from Swiss tennis, like Wawrinka, Hingis, Bencic, Bazcinski, etc.

 

[dominikk1985]

well Canada never really was a Tennis Nation. they might have public Courts but Tennis pros don't come from public Courts but from Clubs where Kids are trained by qualified coaches since preteen Age.

they currently have a very good Generation but it was really the first one. the weather does not really help because indoor times are expensive.

Germany on the other Hand does have that Club System and also a good youth Training System. they bring up a lot of good Players (usually they always have about the third most top100 Players) but for some reason nobody is making the top since becker/stich.

 

[Flash O'Groove]

Could it be related to "national approach" of the sport? A National tennis association may find a very good way to teach promising pros, but struggle to adapt this "once successful national approach" when playing conditions change, and therefor shift the main quality of top players?

I'm thinking about the US serve and forehand of doom combo, who was so successful in the 90's with the power game, but less now that movement has become so important.

 

[dominikk1985]

Tennis isn't popular in Germany nowadays. Becker, Stich and Graf were products of the Tennis boom, which started in Germany in the late 70s and saw an opening of the rigid club system, the setting of open public courts, which allowed more youngsters from school to get on a court. Germany had also a quite good development system. Becker and Graf were coached early on by Boris Breskvar, an official youth coach of the Baden federation. Now the Sport and also the German Federation are in a deep crisis. Stich wanted to become president, but was locked out by the regional federations. A regular development system, which other countries like France, Spain and now Australia have, is not functioning. Fine coaches like Nicola Pilic in Munich, were left out by the federation for a long time and worked on a private basis with foreign players like Djokovic. Ther is also a migration factor in German Tennis(maybe in Swiss Tennis too): Many top youngsters were born or had family origins in East European countries. Maybe those families saw it as a big life chance to get into this sport. Normally German youngsters play Soccer, which overshadows all other sports in media and public.

A big Problem is the strength of the regional federations. each state (Bundesland) has ist own Training Center and the talented Kids do get a good Training in the regional bases but there is not really a strong national Center. until about 12U the regional bases are great but then the top Players should be lumped together into one national Center so that they can compete with the best every day.

however the regional federations don't really want to give up that competency and lose their best Kids.

that way Germany wasted a great Chance in the 80s and 90s to create another Champion. Tennis was getting bigger in the 70s but when boris came up there was a huge boom. the DTB failed to capitalize on it in creating the next champ and now People have lost interest in Tennis because no role models are around.

another Problem was the huge pressure of the media. haas, kiefer and schüttler were fine Players (all top10 for some time) but the media massacred them any time they lost because they were looking for the next boris and while being good Players they could not do this.

 

[rossi46]

Seles, Lendl and Navratilova have learned tennis in eastern Europe, I don't think the US have any merits in their success.



Federer however was nurtured in a national academy though, and received support from Swiss tennis, like Wawrinka, Hingis, Bencic, Bazcinski, etc.

I was thinking more along the lines of the drones that come out of Nick Bollettieri's academy. Federer and Wawrinka have a very unique style.

 

[MatsPhilander]

Has Canada ever really had any tennis pedigree? Seems to be Ice Hockey, Pro Wrestling & Snooker(until the mid 1990's) that produced sports superstars.

 

[Thetouch]

The German Tennis Federation has been gone through the same decline that the German Football Federation went through in the 90 and early 2000s: They didn´t waste too much energy to invest money in their youth systems because they didn´t care too much since they still had success in the 90s. Same thing goes for tennis. Once Boris and Graf came along, they thought everything will be fine for the next 50 years. There are also inner politics and fights that avoids structural changes from my knowledge. When Becker, Stich and Graf retired people lost interest in tennis. I think Garry Weber tennis in Halle might be the only tournament that is broadcastet on german TV (except for Pay TV).

 

[Mainad]

The German Tennis Federation has been gone through the same decline that the German Football Federation went through in the 90 and early 2000s: They didn´t waste too much energy to invest money in their youth systems because they didn´t care too much since they still had success in the 90s. Same thing goes for tennis. Once Boris and Graf came along, they thought everything will be fine for the next 50 years. There are also inner politics and fights that avoids structural changes from my knowledge. When Becker, Stich and Graf retired people lost interest in tennis. I think Garry Weber tennis in Halle might be the only tournament that is broadcastet on german TV (except for Pay TV).

No coverage of the Grand Slams even?

 

[Thetouch]

No coverage of the Grand Slams even?

No, not at all. Fortunately Eurosport covers the Austr. Open, French Open and US Open, but still it´s not broadcastet on german free TV.

On the other hand: every single game of the Football World Cup and European Cup is covered on free TV! ;-)

 

[spirit95]

Spot on. Tennis isn't even that big in Switzerland. If you look at the greats that tennis has produced none of them have actually been manufactured i.e. produced by some sort of academy. They are just freakish natural talents eg. Sampras, Borg, Federer, McEnroe.

Maybe not when Federer was growing up but it's huge now. I heard they get coverage of all the Masters events and slams on free-to-air TV.

 

[Mainad]

No, not at all. Fortunately Eurosport covers the Austr. Open, French Open and US Open, but still it´s not broadcastet on german free TV.

On the other hand: every single game of the Football World Cup and European Cup is covered on free TV! ;-)

What about if a German player is heavily involved? For instance, 2013 Wimbledon when Lisicki made the final. Did that receive attention from the German media?

 

[Thetouch]

What about if a German player is heavily involved? For instance, 2013 Wimbledon when Lisicki made the final. Did that receive attention from the German media?

Yes it did. But still it wasn´t broadcastet on free TV from my memory.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Has Canada ever really had any tennis pedigree? Seems to be Ice Hockey, Pro Wrestling & Snooker(until the mid 1990's) that produced sports superstars.

Everything gets overshadowed by hockey. The most popular summer sport for kids is like... skateboarding.

The most popular sports here in Canada are hockey and snowboarding. Even volleyball is much more popular than football or tennis.

They ended up converting the tennis courts I played on as a kid to roller/road hockey courts. Most people who play tennis here are european or indian immigrants.

 

[MatsPhilander]

Everything gets overshadowed by hockey. The most popular summer sport for kids is like... skateboarding.

The most popular sports here in Canada are hockey and snowboarding. Even volleyball is much more popular than football or tennis.

They ended up converting the tennis courts I played on as a kid to roller/road hockey courts. Most people who play tennis here are european or indian immigrants.

How come Snooker barely exists there any longer? Canada was a Snooker Powerhouse in the 1980's & into the 1990's-Cliff Thorburn was for me the second best player in the 1980's-total legend, Kirk Stevens, Jim Wych, Bob Chaperon, John Bear, Big Bill Werbeniuk, Alain Robidoux etc.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

I'm not sure. Pool used to be really popular in the 90s... lots of my friends had one in their basement. Now it's just an activity played in lounges.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

And honestly the decline in popularity of pool is probably due to the internet and video games. It used to be something people did at home and now people just sit on the computer.

 

[BGod]

Canada has a good amount of high-asset tennis clubs though. Especially in Quebec and British Columbia. I find it embarrassing we don't have more players in the Top 100 and how most of our top players are foreign born. I mean, I wasn't born in Canada either but that's the point. The interest doesn't come internally but from somewhere else when we have the resources. The large geography allows us to build huge tennis facilities but not enough people care. I was one of the youngest players at my club outside Juniors. It's like this almost every club I go to:

6-12 Age Group: Well represented
13-16 Age Group: Some representation
17-27 Age Group: ?????
28-35 Age Group: Some representation
36-50 Age Group: Heavy representation


So basically tennis is a sport where young kids are put into it to help build hand-eye and people sign up for after they've played their prime years at another sport. Depressing to say the least.

I myself played Basketball in college because our tennis program got scrapped due to funding.....

 

[WhiskeyEE]

It was the same with soccer when I was a kid. Basically it was an intro sport kids played before more difficult sports like hockey. I imagine that has changed with the mass immigration since then though.

Funnily enough soccer was the most popular sport for young kids, but the least popular (probably below tennis even) for adults.

I actually prefer it this way though. I would get irritated if tennis somehow blew up.

 

[BGod]

Tennis pros don't come from public Courts but from Clubs where Kids are trained by qualified coaches since preteen Age.

Just to touch on this comment a bit more. Public courts are integral to the game's development because I for one will have an easier time training a kid for a few months on a public court and putting him in for private weekly group lessons in the winter for maybe a couple years before seriously dishing out money for more. Without that ability to try out a kid at a sport, the game will lack attention from many parents unwilling to drop money for a "maybe".

Take Basketball for comparison. I can take a kid and play drills with him twice a week at a free court and sign him up for team play that lasts 2 hours a session every week for 12 weeks and that's going to cost me about $120.

Now, say I don't have public courts for tennis. I have to sign my kid up for 1 hour weekly group lessons that will typically cost $200 for 8 sessions. I need to buy him decent tennis shoes and a racquet.

As a parent, which sounds more appealing to you?

Every sport that people want to see succeed needs reasonable price for training and cheap/free opportunity to practice with a parent.

 

[tennis_pro]

Alexander Zverev. Watch out.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

It isn't too late. Raonic may win a major. Germany has hope too.