Ladies 2.5 Tennis Is Serious Business

kevrol

Hall of Fame
Wife just called me after her combo 5.5 match. The team they played hadn't lost a ct all year. My wife's ct 1 team won. After the match the ct 1 opponent refused to shake hands and the 2.5 opponent stormed off the ct. Then a few minutes later she came back and got in the 3.0 on my wife's team's face about 'that girl you played with is no 2.5'. All this despite the girl she was complaining about is computer rated while the lady complaining is a self-rate with a way above .500 record. Pretty funny. They take this stuff waaaaayyyyy too serious.
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
Wait til you overhear the conversations the team has BEFORE the season starts as to what color scheme the team outfits will be.

If they weren't so deadly serious about color combinations and "that color doesn't look good on me" talk and outfit style pros and cons, etc.... it would be hilarious. Fortunately for me, my back was turned to them so they couldn't see me rolling my eyes.

Not saying they don't look nice in cute little outfits... but, wow... just smh...
 

GatorTennis

Rookie
I go to a couple women's matches a year to support friends. I would do it a lot more, but women's tennis is so annoying from a social aspect. I don't understand how women can subject themselves to so much BS. And USTA isn't enough, they have to play day league too.
 

beernutz

Hall of Fame
I think Sayre's law also applies to low level women's tennis (or maybe any recreational tennis): "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low."
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
Anytime 2.5s are involved you're dealing with cheaters.

It always cracks me up when a team that is cheating complains about another team cheating.
 

esgee48

Legend
I rather watch paint dry. :p
TBH, it's bragging rights they're fighting over; similar to the last XS dress on the sales rack.
 

Possum

Rookie
Odd. I've had the complete opposite experience here in Atlanta. The 2.5, low C level ladies teams have the super fancy food spread, and all the giggles and laughs. The 4.0, high A level ladies have food like the men (doughnuts, pretzels and room temperature water), and they argue and fight every time.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
What is 2.5 tennis anyway? How can you even have an actual match at the 2.5 level? We are talking below 3.0. Think of how much worse a 3.5 is than a 4.0. And that's how much worse a 2.5 is than a 3.0. Do they even know the rules of play at 2.5?

And given that, how can you talk smack and get mad about a 2.5 match? Maybe smack talking is all you got?
 
What is 2.5 tennis anyway? How can you even have an actual match at the 2.5 level? We are talking below 3.0. Think of how much worse a 3.5 is than a 4.0. And that's how much worse a 2.5 is than a 3.0. Do they even know the rules of play at 2.5?

And given that, how can you talk smack and get mad about a 2.5 match? Maybe smack talking is all you got?
Actually, it's quite good tennis from time to time. I've seen a few 2.5 players that can easily beat some 3.5 players. Remember, you can take private and group lesson for 2 years and then self rate as a 2.5 player. When I was playing a 5.5 combo match as a 3.0 at sectionals a couple of years back, I had a medical time out. The ref came out and said "I didn't think there was anymore 7.5 combo still going on" He was dead serious.

To me there is not that big of a disparity from 2.5 to 4.0. The big disparity begins at 4.5.
 

cknobman

Legend
Actually, it's quite good tennis from time to time. I've seen a few 2.5 players that can easily beat some 3.5 players. Remember, you can take private and group lesson for 2 years and then self rate as a 2.5 player. When I was playing a 5.5 combo match as a 3.0 at sectionals a couple of years back, I had a medical time out. The ref came out and said "I didn't think there was anymore 7.5 combo still going on" He was dead serious.

To me there is not that big of a disparity from 2.5 to 4.0. The big disparity begins at 4.5.
WOW MIND BLOWN
You actually believe what you are typing? LMAO

There is a gap wider than the Pacific ocean if between a 2.5 and a 3.5 much less a 4.0. Heck there is a gap as big as the Atlantic between a 3.5 and a 4.0!

Plus anyone that slef rates at 2.5 after 2 years of private lessons is A. knowingly and willingly CHEATING or B. has no business playing tennis because they have no skill.

3.0 is the absolute minimum anyone should rate unless you have never touched a racquet before.
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
Agree 100% with what cknobman said above. Under no circumstance should a 2.5 be able to beat a 3.5 much less a 4.0. If you know of a 2.5 which can then they shouldn't have ever rated themselves as a 2.5 even if they did answer truthfully in the self rating questions. The only reason they would have rated as a 2.5 was to cheat the system and play lower than they know they should.
 
Yes, because there are not bad players at those levels.

I'm a 3.5. I've had close wins at 3.5 and at 4.0 play. It may be different in your area. But in mine, there is no Atlantic Ocean difference between 3.5 and 4.0. The high end 3.5 players can play with the low end 4.0 players easily. Now, 4.0 close to 4.5. No contest. But as I said the 4.5 level players are a different breed.

cknobnam, I'm not sure you've read the self rate questions recently. Granted, there are some BAD 2.5 players. But guess what. There are some BAD 3.5 players. I've seen some solid 2.5 players that just have the disadvantage of being paired with terrible 2.5 players in league play and get stuck there. Also, people improve.

brettatk, I know of a 2.5 player right now named Rick who would own 30% of the older 3.5 players in a singles match. He is computer rated and more than likely moving up to 3.0. He made HUGE jumps this year from taking private lessons and now his game is more on par with a weaker 3.5. I would imagine if he continues taking lessons. he'll be a 4.0 player in two years easy.

I'm not sure if you guys actually play with or against 2.5 players or if you watch from the sidelines making comments. I have personally played with and against 2.5 through 4.0 level play this season, so I have a basis other than watching from the sidelines.

Sounds like you guys are just hating.
 

kevrol

Hall of Fame
brettatk, I know of a 2.5 player right now named Rick who would own 30% of the older 3.5 players in a singles match. He is computer rated and more than likely moving up to 3.0.
Your section must be different. In ours it's pretty much impossible to get a 2.5 C rating. Not sure I've ever seen someone with a 2.5 C rating here locally.
 

cknobman

Legend
@edathompson2 I'm sorry but I disagree with you.

I have played USTA tennis for 10 years now starting at the 3.0 level and working my way up to the 4.5 level.
I've played leagues, combos, tournaments, sectionals, state, just about every level of USTA you can play except nationals.

Regardless of what USTA level you are looking at anyone on the high end of their current level should be able to have a competitive match against anyone on the low end of the next level up. That is the nature of the the level system. Once you reach the high end of your level and can play against the low end of the next level you get bumped up.

At no time have I ever seen someone play and beat another player an entire point level higher than them (IE 3.0 vs 4.0) with the exception of someone being rated incorrectly or some other extenuating circumstance.

We are not hating, just being honest.
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
WOW MIND BLOWN
You actually believe what you are typing? LMAO

There is a gap wider than the Pacific ocean if between a 2.5 and a 3.5 much less a 4.0. Heck there is a gap as big as the Atlantic between a 3.5 and a 4.0!

Plus anyone that slef rates at 2.5 after 2 years of private lessons is A. knowingly and willingly CHEATING or B. has no business playing tennis because they have no skill.

3.0 is the absolute minimum anyone should rate unless you have never touched a racquet before.
It's truly amazing how acceptable cheating is in usta tennis.
 

Alchemy-Z

Hall of Fame
every time I see a 2.5 match I see people calling out scores wrong constantly...like serving from the add court 40-15 one match my wife and her partner were up 3-0...they had the change over the other team called out 1 serving 3 (no one said anything) they then held serve....so my wife and her partner called out 3 serving 2 and got broken....then it was 3-3 and they did a change over

.....I was dieing inside
 

GatorTennis

Rookie
I have seen 2.5C players. They usually suck. Not 2.5 suck, but they make the match unbearable for 2.5's. I have heard and seen weird things happen with USTA rankings that affect entire groups. So it is not out of the realm of thinking that a group of 2.5's could play 2.5, not get bumped....continue to improve and be solid 3.0's at the time they were bumped to 3.0.

If someone plays a 2.5 who plays like a 3.5, they are either a self-rate or they are from Puerto Rico.
 

esgee48

Legend
every time I see a 2.5 match I see people calling out scores wrong constantly...like serving from the add court 40-15 one match my wife and her partner were up 3-0...they had the change over the other team called out 1 serving 3 (no one said anything) they then held serve....so my wife and her partner called out 3 serving 2 and got broken....then it was 3-3 and they did a change over

.....I was dieing inside
1st point finished: Server says '15 all.' Opponent responds 'wasn't that 1st point?' Server says 'OK, Love 15.' Opponent says 'You won that point, I think.' And Life goes on. How did our species manage to survive? :D
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
My wife said one of her partners when they played 3.0 would regularily serve without even looking to see if the returner was ready... to the point that she once served when the returner was behind the adjacent court picking up the 3rd ball! This happened often, and I guess many times she would take the point and the other side wouldn't even dispute. smh...
 

NTRPolice

Hall of Fame
It's truly amazing how acceptable cheating is in usta tennis.
It's entirely possible a legit 2.5 becomes a 3.5 in skill before the standard rating adjustments can bump them. I've seen ambitious tennis players enter the system with 0 tennis skill, self rate at 2.5-3.0 and easily end up one level higher in a few years. Any person with marginal athletic ability can level from a 2.5 to 3.5 in no time at all, with proper instruction. The jump from 3.5 to 4.5 is not at all the same, and the jump from 4.5 to 5.5 is nearly impossible. This is assuming that no one has cheated.

I know an older lady who took up tennis late in life, self rated as a 2.0, and now she's a 3.0, and that's pushing the limit. I know a 3.0 guy who played no tennis at all, but played basketball and volleyball. He self rated as a 3.0 and did tap-over serves, and now is a 3.5 (and still climbing) that has a big flat serve and a topspin serve that gives me problems from time to time. If you see him now, you might think he's a 3.5 sandbagger. Had you seen him when he was a 3.0, you'd think he's the worst 6'3" 3.0 you have ever seen. If he could fix his backhand and his mental game he could easily become a 4.5 one day...
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
It's entirely possible a legit 2.5 becomes a 3.5 in skill before the standard rating adjustments can bump them. I've seen ambitious tennis players enter the system with 0 tennis skill, self rate at 2.5-3.0 and easily end up one level higher in a few years. Any person with marginal athletic ability can level from a 2.5 to 3.5 in no time at all, with proper instruction. The jump from 3.5 to 4.5 is not at all the same, and the jump from 4.5 to 5.5 is nearly impossible. This is assuming that no one has cheated.

I know an older lady who took up tennis late in life, self rated as a 2.0, and now she's a 3.0, and that's pushing the limit. I know a 3.0 guy who played no tennis at all, but played basketball and volleyball. He self rated as a 3.0 and did tap-over serves, and now is a 3.5 (and still climbing) that has a big flat serve and a topspin serve that gives me problems from time to time. If you see him now, you might think he's a 3.5 sandbagger. Had you seen him when he was a 3.0, you'd think he's the worst 6'3" 3.0 you have ever seen. If he could fix his backhand and his mental game he could easily become a 4.5 one day...
It's pretty hard to be a legitimate 2.5.

I didn't even own a tennis racquet when I self rated and I came out a 3.0. You either have to be absolutely terrible or cheating to be a 2.5 for 'years.'
 

NTRPolice

Hall of Fame
It's pretty hard to be a legitimate 2.5.

I didn't even own a tennis racquet when I self rated and I came out a 3.0. You either have to be absolutely terrible or cheating to be a 2.5 for 'years.'
The lady in my example was a 2.0. She was a 2.5 for "years". Right now she's a 3.0 and seriously doubt she will become a 3.5 unless she appeals up.

2.5's are rare to begin with, but you do see legit ones in the 55+ and 65+ leagues, playing 5.0 and 6.0 combo leagues. A high school JV girl could be a 2.5, it's just that they would probably have to come in at a 3.0 and would have to appeal down. I know to you that may sound like that's cheating, but i've seen JV girls that couldnt make any contact with the ball whatsoever if the ball wasnt hit perfectly to them and struggle to serve the ball in play even with double tap-overs. They have junior NTRP tournaments if you want to watch younger 3.0's play. A 10 year old who plays 3.0 JTT might be a 2.5 in adult league if they havnt kept up tennis since then.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
The lady in my example was a 2.0. She was a 2.5 for "years". Right now she's a 3.0 and seriously doubt she will become a 3.5 unless she appeals up.

2.5's are rare to begin with, but you do see legit ones in the 55+ and 65+ leagues, playing 5.0 and 6.0 combo leagues. A high school JV girl could be a 2.5, it's just that they would probably have to come in at a 3.0 and would have to appeal down. I know to you that may sound like that's cheating, but i've seen JV girls that couldnt make any contact with the ball whatsoever if the ball wasnt hit perfectly to them and struggle to serve the ball in play even with double tap-overs. They have junior NTRP tournaments if you want to watch younger 3.0's play. A 10 year old who plays 3.0 JTT might be a 2.5 in adult league if they havnt kept up tennis since then.
A friend's daughter is a sophomore in HS and went out for the JV team this year after never having played tennis at all ever. I guarantee she's not a 3.0 level USTA player or anywhere close right now. Granted, she's 15 and if she sticks with it, she'll zoom past the 2.5 level pretty quickly, but there are definitely HS JV players that are 2.5 level.
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
The lady in my example was a 2.0. She was a 2.5 for "years". Right now she's a 3.0 and seriously doubt she will become a 3.5 unless she appeals up.

2.5's are rare to begin with, but you do see legit ones in the 55+ and 65+ leagues, playing 5.0 and 6.0 combo leagues. A high school JV girl could be a 2.5, it's just that they would probably have to come in at a 3.0 and would have to appeal down. I know to you that may sound like that's cheating, but i've seen JV girls that couldnt make any contact with the ball whatsoever if the ball wasnt hit perfectly to them and struggle to serve the ball in play even with double tap-overs. They have junior NTRP tournaments if you want to watch younger 3.0's play. A 10 year old who plays 3.0 JTT might be a 2.5 in adult league if they havnt kept up tennis since then.
Why are you bringing up middle school girls?

I've never seen an adult league woman that plays like a 12 year old girl.
 

NTRPolice

Hall of Fame
Why are you bringing up middle school girls?

I've never seen an adult league woman that plays like a 12 year old girl.
Really? I've definitely seen "adult league players" play like some of the JV tennis players we have here. "JV" doesnt mean "12". You can be 14 or 15 years old and still be "JV" if you're playing like a 2.5 or 3.0. If you want to make varsity tennis here you will have to be a solid 3.0. If you want to win states, you'll have to be a 4.5 to dream about it.

Legitimate 2.5 men tend to be old and overweight.
Legitimate 2.5-3.0 women can be in shape, young, and still play like someone half their age (JV).

I've seen 3.5 women run directly into the path of the ball before... because they tried to get out of the way, but ran into the path instead, or, tried to run up on the ball, and overran it so bad they basically beaned themselves. Extreme example, but still not unbelievable considering ive seen 2.5's with literally no strokes, who struggle to serve the ball in play with two, backhand grip, tap-overs.
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
Really? I've definitely seen "adult league players" play like some of the JV tennis players we have here. "JV" doesnt mean "12". You can be 14 or 15 years old and still be "JV" if you're playing like a 2.5 or 3.0. If you want to make varsity tennis here you will have to be a solid 3.0. If you want to win states, you'll have to be a 4.5 to dream about it.

Legitimate 2.5 men tend to be old and overweight.
Legitimate 2.5-3.0 women can be in shape, young, and still play like someone half their age (JV).

I've seen 3.5 women run directly into the path of the ball before... because they tried to get out of the way, but ran into the path instead, or, tried to run up on the ball, and overran it so bad they basically beaned themselves. Extreme example, but still not unbelievable considering ive seen 2.5's with literally no strokes, who struggle to serve the ball in play with two, backhand grip, tap-overs.
Well we don't have anyone like that in our local league. Most the 2.5s are former d1 or d2 athletes in other sports.
 

kevrol

Hall of Fame
R
Legitimate 2.5 men tend to be old and overweight.
In our local league of about 1,000 men there's not a single 2.5C male. Every male 2.5 is a self-rate. I can not imagine how poorly one would have to play to maintain a 2.5C rating as a male. Of course we have no 2.5 league here so every 2.5 plays 3.0.
 

NTRPolice

Hall of Fame
Well we don't have anyone like that in our local league. Most the 2.5s are former d1 or d2 athletes in other sports.
I dont think you can come in as a 2.5 if you answer the question "Do you play other sports" with "yes". If you catch a 2.5 S player who can be Googled for playing D1/2 sports, you can file a ratings grievance and it should be upheld on appeal. Someone who played D1/2 sports (even if it's a totally unrelated sport)

In our local league of about 1,000 men there's not a single 2.5C male. Every male 2.5 is a self-rate. I can not imagine how poorly one would have to play to maintain a 2.5C rating as a male. Of course we have no 2.5 league here so every 2.5 plays 3.0.
Same here. I dont even think there is 2.5/5.0 anymore. All the 2.5's are getting bumped to 3.0 because they are playing 3.0. However, there are a few older players who play 6.0 mixed as 2.5's. These guys are old, like 70+, and playing for "health" and not competition. The "kids" who would be 2.5's are not playing USTA leagues. By the time they hit 17-18 and are playing USTA leagues, they are usually coming in as 3.0's. Some legitimately. Some not.

It's hilarious when I see a kid playing 4.0 JTT and then locking in a 3.0C rating after rolling it over a year so they can play USTA...
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
I dont think you can come in as a 2.5 if you answer the question "Do you play other sports" with "yes". If you catch a 2.5 S player who can be Googled for playing D1/2 sports, you can file a ratings grievance and it should be upheld on appeal. Someone who played D1/2 sports (even if it's a totally unrelated sport)



Same here. I dont even think there is 2.5/5.0 anymore. All the 2.5's are getting bumped to 3.0 because they are playing 3.0. However, there are a few older players who play 6.0 mixed as 2.5's. These guys are old, like 70+, and playing for "health" and not competition. The "kids" who would be 2.5's are not playing USTA leagues. By the time they hit 17-18 and are playing USTA leagues, they are usually coming in as 3.0's. Some legitimately. Some not.

It's hilarious when I see a kid playing 4.0 JTT and then locking in a 3.0C rating after rolling it over a year so they can play USTA...
You should be right. But I reside in a state/section were cheating is allowed. The state league coordinator said there is no rule preventing a HS tennis player nor a d1 athlete from another sport from self eating a 2.5.
 

kevrol

Hall of Fame
Just found out about a lady in our state who was playing on a 2.5 team here that was dqd and bumped all the way to 4.5. How much do you have to want to win to play 2.5 when you should be 4.5?
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
Just found out about a lady in our state who was playing on a 2.5 team here that was dqd and bumped all the way to 4.5. How much do you have to want to win to play 2.5 when you should be 4.5?
Well, a DQ/promotion like that is likely not from match results but from a grievance regarding an incorrect self-rate, e.g. the player had history that required a self-rate of 4.5. Now 4.5 may or may not be the level the player can play at, there are lots of cases of players that technically played in college or had other background requiring a 4.5 self-rate per the guidelines but aren't really a 4.5. But having that history and self-rating as a 2.5 would certainly be a travesty.

The proper thing to do when a self-rating may be inappropriately high is to self-rate honestly, get the 4.5 rating, and then file an appeal. When the merits of the appeal are looked at, their self-rating very well may be adjusted to an appropriate level, be it 4.0 or perhaps even 3.5.
 

kevrol

Hall of Fame
Did some looking and it appears this person played at least 2 years in college. Pathetic for her to play 2.5. She also played 3.5 and had an overall 10-1 record so it appears even if 4.5 is too high she should at least be a 4.0. She should probably just be banned from playing USTA.
 

NTRPolice

Hall of Fame
Just found out about a lady in our state who was playing on a 2.5 team here that was dqd and bumped all the way to 4.5. How much do you have to want to win to play 2.5 when you should be 4.5?
I seen 1 step DQ's, but if it's more than 1 step, it's probably as schmke says and is a bad self rate.
 
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