Ladies and Gentlemen - It's the grass season!!!

Kralingen

Professional
Some interesting results today:
Cilic beating Basilashvili 2,3 in a comprehensive victory. He still has enough left for a run at Wimbledon I think.
Ugo Humbert continues his run, 7-6 6-2 into the quarters.

Both of the young Canadian hopes play as well - Auger Aliassime vs. Lloyd Harris (who has a great serve) and Shapovalov vs. Feli Lopez. I don't remember either player ever playing on grass and they likely haven't stepped foot on the surface since Wimbledon 2019. Interested to see how they do, I always thought Shapovalov had his highest potential on grass when his game is firing.
 

GhostOfNKDM

Hall of Fame
lol no

He’s just a pretty average player and it’s sad he’s pretty much the standard for serve and volley these days
Thats not what you said the first time around.

I don’t know you enough to make a judgment but I reported your post because that kind of language about players doesn’t belong here.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Bold prediction on the record: Tsitsipas will be in the Wimby final if he doesn't injure himself before that.
Tsits and Shapo have both sadly underachieved on grass since their junior days. They played a spectacular SF (3 sets 6-2,in the third Shapo) in the 2016 Wimby Boys tournament that suggested they would be challenging for SW19 titles by now. Between them they have four 1R, two 2R and one 4R exits. Time to step up and graze properly!
 

Aabye5

Rookie
Tsits and Shapo have both sadly underachieved on grass since their junior days. They played a spectacular SF (3 sets 6-2,in the third Shapo) in the 2016 Wimby Boys tournament that suggested they would be challenging for SW19 titles by now. Between them they have four 1R, two 2R and one 4R exits. Time to step up and graze properly!
Are you suggesting they embrace their inner...GOAT :D
 

tonylg

Legend
Tsits and Shapo have both sadly underachieved on grass since their junior days. They played a spectacular SF (3 sets 6-2,in the third Shapo) in the 2016 Wimby Boys tournament that suggested they would be challenging for SW19 titles by now. Between them they have four 1R, two 2R and one 4R exits. Time to step up and graze properly!
I think they both naturally have the shots to play on proper grass, but watching Shapo this week he keeps reverting to more baseline oriented play. Whether that is because the slow courts have stifled any attacking instinct or they are consciously preparing for the hard courts at Wimbledon, I don't know.
 
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Aabye5

Rookie
I think they both naturally have the shots to play on proper grass, but watching Shapo this week he keeps reverting to more baseline oriented play. Whether that is because the slow courts have stifled any attacking instinct or they are consciously preparing for the hard courts at Wimbledon, I don't know.
Denis Shapovalov is 22. That means it is quite likely that he never stepped foot on grass until probably 2011 or 2012, when he was 9 or 10. Unless there are boatloads of grass courts in Canada. So, unless someone has a time stamped photo of him playing on the grass when he was 5, the grass he played on is the same grass that Nole and Rafa played on when they won.
 

tonylg

Legend
Denis Shapovalov is 22. That means it is quite likely that he never stepped foot on grass until probably 2011 or 2012, when he was 9 or 10. Unless there are boatloads of grass courts in Canada. So, unless someone has a time stamped photo of him playing on the grass when he was 5, the grass he played on is the same grass that Nole and Rafa played on when they won.
What on earth are you talking about?
 

Aabye5

Rookie
@tonylg My point is that Denis Shapovalov, more than likely, developed his attacking style without playing on courts faster than your average hard courts. (Like I said, though, maybe they have a lot of grass courts in Canada?) If your instinct is to attack on grass, you will attack. Roger, F. López, and Dustin Brown are all examples of this. While I don't think these grass courts encourage serve-and-volley the same way, I don't think they necessarily encourage baseline play either. It's just that if you are a baseliner, you are no longer at the same disadvantage.

My guess is that Mikhail Youzhny prompted this change, not the courts.
 

tonylg

Legend
When did Denis Shapovalov play on proper grass?
I said they "naturally have the shots to play on proper grass".

Those would be strong serves with good spin, closed stance single handed backhands with good slice, ability to flatten out and penetrate the forehand, volleys, overhead and good forward movement. They both have all of those.

I then went on to say that despite possessing those strokes, the slow courts they play on may have stifled any attacking instincts. Meaning: despite having the tools, they may not be able to play proper grass tennis.

I didn't say anything about either one actually having a history of play on proper grass. Although it does still exist .. just not at Wimbledon.
 

Aabye5

Rookie
I said they "naturally have the shots to play on proper grass".

Those would be strong serves with good spin, closed stance single handed backhands with good slice, ability to flatten out and penetrate the forehand, volleys, overhead and good forward movement. They both have all of those.

I then went on to say that despite possessing those strokes, the slow courts they play on may have stifled any attacking instincts. Meaning: despite having the tools, they may not be able to play proper grass tennis.

I didn't say anything about either one actually having a history of play on proper grass. Although it does still exist .. just not at Wimbledon.
Yes, I understand your point. I just happen to disagree with your logic. In the past, attacking the net was the only way to go if you wanted to win Wimbledon. Now, you don't have to adjust as much. That doesn't mean serve-and-volley players will likely lose more, it just means baseliners will likely win more.

It is slower than before, but not as slow as clay. Otherwise David Ferrer and Domi Thiem would like it more.
 

tonylg

Legend
Yes, I understand your point. I just happen to disagree with your logic. In the past, attacking the net was the only way to go if you wanted to win Wimbledon. Now, you don't have to adjust as much. That doesn't mean serve-and-volley players will likely lose more, it just means baseliners will likely win more.

It is slower than before, but not as slow as clay. Otherwise David Ferrer and Domi Thiem would like it more.
I'd say we agree on more than you realise.

Attacking the net was a better way to go, but not the only way. Agassi won in the 90s without being a dedicated serve and volleyer. Even Courier made a final! Now the ONLY way to win is from the back. You're right that there is no adjustment, just play a defensive hard court game at the AEC. Even the best serve and volleyer of this era plays from the back.

I note the final 8 at the last Wimbledon contained 5 dedicated baseline bots, 1 clay court specialist, a bumbling servebot and an all court player who played defensive baseline tennis. Thiem is better equipped to play on grass than most of them .. and Ferrer just wasn't good enough. Current form suggest Thiem might not be either.

Despite the rhetoric that "The servebots are coming .. The servebots are coming!" Wimbledon has only once been won by a servebot. In the Open Era, at least. However, it is clearly now dominated by baseline bots or players utilising that style. The very fact that baseline botting wins means all court players do lose more. You cannot have both.

The deck is well and truly stacked and traditional grass court tennis has been killed off at the AEC by poly and slow courts with high bounce.
 

Aabye5

Rookie
I'd say we agree on more than you realise.

Attacking the net was a better way to go, but not the only way. Agassi won in the 90s without being a dedicated serve and volleyer. Even Courier made a final! Now the ONLY way to win is from the back. You're right that there is no adjustment, just play a defensive hard court game at the AEC. Even the best serve and volleyer of this era plays from the back.

I note the final 8 at the last Wimbledon contained 5 dedicated baseline bots, 1 clay court specialist, a bumbling servebot and an all court player who played defensive baseline tennis. Thiem is better equipped to play on grass than most of them .. and Ferrer just wasn't good enough. Current form suggest Thiem might not be either.

Despite the rhetoric that "The servebots are coming .. The servebots are coming!" Wimbledon has only once been won by a servebot. In the Open Era, at least. However, it is clearly now dominated by baseline bots or players utilising that style. The very fact that baseline botting wins means all court players do lose more. You cannot have both.

The deck is well and truly stacked and traditional grass court tennis has been killed off at the AEC by poly and slow courts with high bounce.
It's probably splitting hairs, but I don't think that it's the only way, or Dustin Brown would never have beaten Rafa. Feliciano López is another player who would lose out if it was only for baseliners. Is Brown a better baseliner than Rafa? No way.

I think Thiem (and Nishikori to a lesser extent) can blast the ball. In that sense, they can play the Lendl game, even on the old grass. *Locate Target, Target Acquired, Kaboom!* It's like Star Wars out there. Waz zuh volley?

As far as the servebots, we will see how Opelka feels on grass, but the servebots mantra was part of the reason they changed the grass. By changing the grass they prevented Ivo Karlovic from winning Wimby. Though, I agree, the risk was probably overstated to begin with.

Now as far as 2019, I think Pella and Goffin got lucky. I mean, the hardest person either of them faced was Raonic. Raonic doesn't know if he wants to s&v or bash from the baseline so he stays pretty mediocre at both.

In 2019 Shapo lost to Basilashvili, a player in the Thiem mold. Would Shapo have lost on the old grass? Lendl still beat a lot of good players on his way to losing to Becker.
 
Couldn't care less. The Stuttgart 250 is the highlight of my tennis watching year thus far.
So what you're saying is that you get off watching those 'titans-of-tennis' Sam Querrey and Dominic Stricker vs. shot-making wizardry from Rafael Nadal & Novak Djokovic, two of the all-time greats and owners of 38 (38!) grand slam titles between them---lmao.

Enjoy the '250' warm up band.

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