Lahyani Supended

Bartelby

Talk Tennis Guru
It seems a gray area but one where his employers are entitled to say he strayed too far from the right path.

I have a feeling entertainment products like tennis sway nervously between strict juridicalism and letting the event flow.

There's similar problems to this in all sport. Lahyani kept the show on the road even if at the expense of a strict interpretation of neutrality.

I'm just a little tired of tennis giving lectures on strictness when it suits.
Eh, he did something he pretty clearly wasn't supposed to be doing. I don't know if there's a written rule for it but we have to admit it's in an area of general failure to do his job properly.
And I actually sympathise with him - I was one of the few to stick up for him in the original thread. I just don't think he/we can complain about him being given some sort of punishment though.
 
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Bartelby

Talk Tennis Guru
What will happen next is that umpires will become more strict as it is the most risk-adverse approach and commentators will groan about umpires deciding outcomes.

Nadal will probably have a melt-down and all his supporters will turn back to the Krygios case and whine about how everyone is biased against the Spaniard.
 
Lol the way these tournaments rig draws for expected outcomes, its no wonder some of these refs have begun to see themselves more as maestros conducting some theatre in the vein of WWE than as umpires

But he broke the rules, despite his best intentions for tennis as a whole, so must sit it out in the sin bin
 

Bartelby

Talk Tennis Guru
They don't rig draws and Lahyani did not break a strict rule. He over-interpreted his role in a way his employers do not like.

I would have thought it had already been made clear to him that he had crossed a boundary, so the suspension is probably for the benefit of both Krygios' opponent and the general public.

Lol the way these tournaments rig draws for expected outcomes, its no wonder some of these refs have begun to see themselves more as maestros conducting some theatre in the vein of WWE than as umpires

But he broke the rules, despite his best intentions for tennis as a whole, so must sit it out in the sin bin
 
The correct punishment would be for the ITF to suspend him from the AO but to avoid having to do that they have arranged with the ATP to step in with a soft censure just banning him for 2 weeks from the Asian Swing. It's a fix.
 
[Insert gif of POTUS saying WRONG !]

If you were moonlighting (with permission from your primary employer) and they evaluated you at your second job do you think it fair for the other employer to second guess it.

The ATP should have kept out of it. :mad: Unless it’s a ruse for a disguised and well deserved vacation. In which case, well played ATP. :)
Totally agree.
 
once again umpires' authority is undermined. No wonder they are too scared to enforce the time rule. Its symptomatic of what's happened in wider society. Authority figures with a public face have lost their ability to do what they think is right and be trusted with it. It is only important that they are seen to do no 'wrong'. Of course this is is a very trivial example.
 
Warning someone about tanking is part of officiating, no? VAMOS !

The method was unorthodox but better then what they usually do — nothing. Or a mindless “warning,” “penalty”, “game.”

This guy is among the best if not the best in the business and he comes up with creative solutions. :D
If he was warning Nick, then he should have followed the correct process.

His ''comforting'', touchy-feely spiel was ridiculously inappropriate. That's not his job!
 

Enga

Professional
Sounds about right to me. An umpire needs to understand what their true purpose is. And for that, they should have a good long talk with their employers about what is expected of them. And they should definitely never use vocabulary such as "I want to help you" to a player.
 
He’s the hero tennis deserves but not the one it needs right now.
Even when Kyrgios is involved in an apparently positive story, bad things happen.

You use Michael Cohen to make the payment. :cool:
If Lahyani was a woman this would be on the front page of every newspaper right now.
Ramos is contributing with $450.
Lahyani is an Arabic word meaning "Life", so the thread title says "Life suspended"
So many genius replies in this thread. Laughing really hard.
 
justified, but a bummer. he seems like a great guy, brings some fun and engagement to the court and given this is an entertainment-driven business there is value there. pay fine, serve as an example, move on...
I don't agree with all the people who say he had some interest (a bet, or extra publicity) in the match, it seems like he was being too nice at the expense of professionalism. I guess a suspension for the Asian swing isn't that bad.
 
From this we learn there is a grand total of seven salaried ATP umpires. :cool:
Yup. I was initially wondering whether he is paid per event like some other posts have mentioned about Umpires in general.

Suspended without pay = salaried.

Not a bad life traveling around. Maybe Ramos disagreed. :)
 
It certainly was an odd error of judgement.

Interesting the ATP should suspend him when it was an ITF event, or have I misunderstood the workings between the two bodies?
Could just be they want a suspension now and not wait ages for the next ITF event, the likes of which will be more prestigious for Lahyani than missing a couple of ATP 250s.

Would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall for both recent umpire debacles!
 
You can't drag feminism into everything because you have a private obsession, no?
I'm not dragging feminism into anything. Like I clearly stated, I'm just asking out of curiousity and have no interest in further discussion. Wether you want to answer my question or not is entirely up to you of course.
 
Instead of being praised, he is punished. He just encouraged a player to play.
That's not his job though. His job is to impartially call the lines and oversee the match to ensure it's played with integrity and honesty. Coaches jobs are to encourage their player to play among other things, but never a chair umpire.
 
He did a mistake and right call to suspend him (by the way, my GOAT umpire).

But I totally understand why he did that to "Kyrgios".
Anybody who knows how Kyrgios sometimes sabotage a match.
Hopefully this incident triggers something in Kyrgios mind and he gets his act together, at least on court.
Sadly, I sincerely doubt it will happen. How many times?!! has Kyrgios pulled this kind of **** and yet it still keeps happening. I don't see Kyrgios having some sort of an epiphany anytime soon.

The most likely thing to happen here is that more fines and other forms of punishment are handed out to players that appear to be tanking in matches or not giving their best effort, assuming there isn't a medical or player safety issue.
 
It certainly was an odd error of judgement.

Interesting the ATP should suspend him when it was an ITF event, or have I misunderstood the workings between the two bodies?
Could just be they want a suspension now and not wait ages for the next ITF event, the likes of which will be more prestigious for Lahyani than missing a couple of ATP 250s.

Would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall for both recent umpire debacles!
GS tournaments are counted as ATP / WTA tournaments. The main word for GS has ITF, but
ATP / WTA have their rights, such as the right to punish a referee.
I know that ATP / WTA has a close co-operation with the ITF on GS.
 
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He made a mistake but I’m not sure he deserved to be suspended. It’s a little severe.
The problem I'd have with that view is that given Kyrgios complete turnaround in that match after Lahyani's little pep talk, it's obvious that the chair ump had a massive impact on a match outside of the calls he had to make. That's a big problem and never should have happened, imo.
 
Can you name the rules that he broke exactly?
ITF Duties and Procedures for Officials Manual (2017)

Page 26, Section U, Number 8:

"8. Officials must maintain complete impartiality with respect to all players at all times, and must avoid any real or perceived conflicts of interest. Specifically, Officials shall not i) officiate in any match in which they have a real or perceived conflict of interest; or ii) socialise with or become intimate with players, or enter into any relationship or take any action that may call into question their impartiality as an Official. For the avoidance of doubt and notwithstanding the above, Officials may attend social functions at which players are present and may stay in the same hotels as players, but shall not share a hotel room with any player of any age. Officials must declare all conflicts of interest with ITF Officiating, which administers the Joint Certification Programme on behalf of all members of the Joint Certification Programme. Note: Examples of conflicts of interest include, but are not limited to being: a professional tennis player or a friend, relative or Player Support Team member of a professional tennis player; a National Tennis Coach; a National Tennis Team Captain; a Tournament Director/Organiser; or an employee, consultant or contractor for a company that has a commercial interest in tennis."

https://www.itftennis.com/media/221928/221928.pdf

"It's all there. Clear as crystal. In black and white. You lose, good day sir!"

 

Bartelby

Talk Tennis Guru
I seriously doubt that this smorgasbord of possible perfidy applies to anything that Lahyani did.

This is mainly to do with impartiality in terms of money and sex and neither accusation applies.

In any event, your task was to name the rule that the disciplining authority invoked, not to run to the rule book to find whatever you can.

It's clear that the authorities were worried about the perception that his interpretation would give rise to, but this is not your quoted kind of rule breaking.

ITF Duties and Procedures for Officials Manual (2017)

Page 26, Section U, Number 8:

"8. Officials must maintain complete impartiality with respect to all players at all times, and must avoid any real or perceived conflicts of interest. Specifically, Officials shall not i) officiate in any match in which they have a real or perceived conflict of interest; or ii) socialise with or become intimate with players, or enter into any relationship or take any action that may call into question their impartiality as an Official. For the avoidance of doubt and notwithstanding the above, Officials may attend social functions at which players are present and may stay in the same hotels as players, but shall not share a hotel room with any player of any age. Officials must declare all conflicts of interest with ITF Officiating, which administers the Joint Certification Programme on behalf of all members of the Joint Certification Programme. Note: Examples of conflicts of interest include, but are not limited to being: a professional tennis player or a friend, relative or Player Support Team member of a professional tennis player; a National Tennis Coach; a National Tennis Team Captain; a Tournament Director/Organiser; or an employee, consultant or contractor for a company that has a commercial interest in tennis."

https://www.itftennis.com/media/221928/221928.pdf

"It's all there. Clear as crystal. In black and white. You lose, good day sir!"

 
Sadly, I sincerely doubt it will happen. How many times?!! has Kyrgios pulled this kind of **** and yet it still keeps happening. I don't see Kyrgios having some sort of an epiphany anytime soon.

The most likely thing to happen here is that more fines and other forms of punishment are handed out to players that appear to be tanking in matches or not giving their best effort, assuming there isn't a medical or player safety issue.
yeah. and i think it's also Kyrgios tactic to annoy people, maybe ?

Anyway, I like Lahyni. He loves tennis and he thoroughly understand the philosophy behind tennis rules.
 
ITF Duties and Procedures for Officials Manual (2017)

Page 26, Section U, Number 8:

"8. Officials must maintain complete impartiality with respect to all players at all times, and must avoid any real or perceived conflicts of interest. Specifically, Officials shall not i) officiate in any match in which they have a real or perceived conflict of interest; or ii) socialise with or become intimate with players, or enter into any relationship or take any action that may call into question their impartiality as an Official. For the avoidance of doubt and notwithstanding the above, Officials may attend social functions at which players are present and may stay in the same hotels as players, but shall not share a hotel room with any player of any age. Officials must declare all conflicts of interest with ITF Officiating, which administers the Joint Certification Programme on behalf of all members of the Joint Certification Programme. Note: Examples of conflicts of interest include, but are not limited to being: a professional tennis player or a friend, relative or Player Support Team member of a professional tennis player; a National Tennis Coach; a National Tennis Team Captain; a Tournament Director/Organiser; or an employee, consultant or contractor for a company that has a commercial interest in tennis."
(1) Preventing a tank doesn't per se go to "impartiality."

A tank violates the ATP Code of Conduct.

"ATP officials are grappling with the knotty issue because some of the sport’s up-and-coming male stars have been perceived to be thumbing their noses at the game. The talented but volatile Nick Kyrgios was suspended last month for disrespecting fans, his opponents and the sport. Deliberately trying to lose, which violates the “best effort” clause in the ATP’s Code of Conduct, is a serious offense. It cuts to the heart of the game’s integrity."

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/...n-on-tanking-but-what-exactly-is-tanking.html

You may be fixating on Mo's words "I want to help you" simply because he didn't add the implicit to "avoid a penalty or fine for tanking." He's a very experienced Umpire that actually dealt with the tanking issue in real time. He knows the players and took a tack that he thought made sense with this particular player. Instead of something that may have been incendiary like an explicit warning he did it more tactfully. People are now upset because it worked.

(2) There is no evidence Mo socializes with or has "become intimate with" Nick.

Points for the Wonka clip.
 
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I wonder if the Serena incident contributed.

The contrast of the two was always weird. Kyrgios, on the verge of getting a penalty for tanking, gets a pep talk that may be coaching... whereas Serena gets a warning and eventually a game penalty and no "I'm on your side" pep talk.

So the ATP is making it clear that they prefer the umpires to make the calls and enforce the rules, rather than trying to coach players to prevent them from breaking them.
 

Bartelby

Talk Tennis Guru
The tournaments probably want the opposite. Players getting fined for tanking doesn't seem to change behaviour. Meanwhile people are paying for a non-spectacle.

I wonder if the Serena incident contributed.

The contrast of the two was always weird. Kyrgios, on the verge of getting a penalty for tanking, gets a pep talk that may be coaching... whereas Serena gets a warning and eventually a game penalty and no "I'm on your side" pep talk.

So the ATP is making it clear that they prefer the umpires to make the calls and enforce the rules, rather than trying to coach players to prevent them from breaking them.
 
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