Laughable NTRP Ratings

cork_screw

Hall of Fame
I used to think that a 5.0 was a very accomplished player. I think a lot of people who post their vids up on youtube live in denial when they rate themselves way higher than they really are.

Here's what I think of when I think of a 5.0-5.5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvtZBct1Vqw


Here is what you mostly see on the tube when people patronize themselves and live in a world of denial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cGaZmBBYSo

It's not just 5.0. You see this at all levels; 4.5, 4.0 and so on. Just that the really high levels are funny to watch when you see them miss a ton of easy shots or they play moonballs all the time.

I like people who are honest. I hate it when people lie cause they need an ego boost.
 
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dr325i

G.O.A.T.
I used to think that a 5.0 was a very accomplished player. I think a lot of people who post their vids up on youtube live in denial when they rate themselves way higher than they really are.

Here's what I think of when I think of a 5.0-5.5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvtZBct1Vqw


Here is what you mostly see on the tube when people patronize themselves and live in a world of denial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cGaZmBBYSo

It's not just 5.0. You see this at all levels; 4.5, 4.0 and so on. Just that the really high levels are funny to watch when you see them miss a ton of easy shots or they play moonballs all the time.
The first video = DEFINITELY HIGHER than 5.0
 
You want to know what's even more laughable? This thread. Clay Thompson is the #1 ranked college player in the country and has ATP points. Just curious: are you trolling us?
 

Devil_dog

Hall of Fame
Second video is no way 5.0 - not in my neck of the woods anyway. The first vid? This is collegiate play right? Way higher than 5.0.
 

WildVolley

Legend
The fact that you refer to a 6.0 player when thinking about a 5.0 means that you need to rethink and readjust your expectations.
 

Cobaine

Semi-Pro
The first vid is definitely 6.0. I suppose 5 years after they graduate, if they've been working normal jobs and not playing tennis on a daily basis, they'd be 5.5. So you're not too far off.

(Of course, with Lin and Thompson, they are probably 6.5, so they'd probably still be higher than 5.5)

The second vid is definitely not 5.0. That is 4.0 players (if that) in the 5.0 draw of a random tourney where no 5.0s signed up. I can take a crap in a box and call it a French truffle. Doesn't mean it is.
 

Maximagq

Banned
I used to think that a 5.0 was a very accomplished player. I think a lot of people who post their vids up on youtube live in denial when they rate themselves way higher than they really are.

Here's what I think of when I think of a 5.0-5.5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvtZBct1Vqw


Here is what you mostly see on the tube when people patronize themselves and live in a world of denial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cGaZmBBYSo

It's not just 5.0. You see this at all levels; 4.5, 4.0 and so on. Just that the really high levels are funny to watch when you see them miss a ton of easy shots or they play moonballs all the time.

I like people who are honest. I hate it when people lie cause they need an ego boost.
College players at DI universities are much higher than 5.5. Clay is in the 6.5 range and Denis is 6.0. I am 5.0.
 

Maximagq

Banned
There's no way in hell that Clay is 5.5. The guy was top 10 in the country and is now number one IN COLLEGE DI TENNIS. He is hella good!
 

LakeSnake

Professional
There were a couple 5.0 players at our drop-in doubles at Kiwanis today this morning. At least that's what the sign-in sheet said!
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Yeah, wow I know these guys are making mistakes, but they are D1 players. Definitely not 5.0. Probably a whole level above to be honest.

The Hawaii guy is well documented. Probably not a 5.0, but he is in Hawaii, so who the heck knows out there.
 
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Power Player

Bionic Poster
The first vid is definitely 6.0. I suppose 5 years after they graduate, if they've been working normal jobs and not playing tennis on a daily basis, they'd be 5.5. So you're not too far off.

(Of course, with Lin and Thompson, they are probably 6.5, so they'd probably still be higher than 5.5)

The second vid is definitely not 5.0. That is 4.0 players (if that) in the 5.0 draw of a random tourney where no 5.0s signed up. I can take a crap in a box and call it a French truffle. Doesn't mean it is.
Everything about this post and poster is amazing. 10/10. HAHA. The Avatar..wow. So good.
 

mightyrick

Legend
The interesting thing is that the Hawaii 5.0's are actually much, much closer to NTRP self-rating guidelines than anywhere else in the United States.

The Hawaii guy has always contended that NTRP ratings in the US strong regions are way low and that the NTRP computer makes no accounting for strength of region. If you look really closely at some of their matches -- they are definitely over 4.0. Solid 4.5. Highly consistent. Great movement. Decent off both wings.

On the mainland USA, there is a huge gulf of difference between 4.5 and 5.0. One can be a talented weekend hack... whereas the other a good college player. In Hawaii... the difference between the two is obviously much more normalized.
 
Ever so slightly off topic so sorry about that:

There is a young guy I hit with here in Nairobi, he is 19 years old, played for the Kenya Davis Cup team last year, works as a tennis instructor, and is trying for a tennis scholarship in the USA. I can't remember the names of the colleges he is applying to but he told me that they were all Division 2 teams. Really nice guy, I hope he succeeds. Life is tough for kids here in Kenya, this would be a great opportunity.

Anyway, I was wondering what NTRP level D2 equates to? Obviously he is way way better than me, and when we hit I can just about hang with him provided he plays down a bit, but nonetheless I am totally gassed after about 15 minutes!
 

GuyClinch

Legend
OP you are cherry picking. The Hawaii guy is well known to be far below 5.0 level. You can find better 4.5 players then any of the 5.0 guys he talks about..

Check out this 4.5 league rated (REAL RATING) from Atlanta.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBtqj9yfONw

The guy in orange would destroy the "5.0" hack.. HawaiiPro is a joke. You should be disqualified from posting any of his videos for NTRP comparisons.
 

rufus_smith

Professional
I wouldn't be that surprised at all if Ricky, the guy in the white cap in OP second video can play at a true 5.0 level. Short video clips can be misleading.
 

Harry_Wild

G.O.A.T.
The first video is definitely 6.0-6.5 since they are college players at Division I university level. I read that one of players has ATP points which makes that person at a 6.8!
 

Maximagq

Banned
Clay and Denis are 6.0+. Di Giulio is 6.0+. I would rate myself around 5.0 as a benchmark. Not sure about Hawaiian Tennis Pro, he could be match savvy. Plus the video is not a complete match so it is hard to tell. With my match against Di Giulio, you can see a clear difference in his level of play and my level of play and how much better he is than me. I don't think most people are overrating themselves on the NTRP scale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t90qW1nGzZ8
 

Mac33

Hall of Fame
Watched the video of the good players. If that guy is number one college player in the States and number ten in the country then I will be surprised.

So many unforced errors. Every second or third shot was an error and mostly unforced.

Comparing that level to say a Andy Murray,reckon they would be doing well to get a game per set. With so many unforced errors,would just be handing the match to Andy.
 

ShoeShiner

Rookie
Clay and Denis are 6.0+. Di Giulio is 6.0+. I would rate myself around 5.0 as a benchmark. Not sure about Hawaiian Tennis Pro, he could be match savvy. Plus the video is not a complete match so it is hard to tell. With my match against Di Giulio, you can see a clear difference in his level of play and my level of play and how much better he is than me. I don't think most people are overrating themselves on the NTRP scale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t90qW1nGzZ8
Thanks for a good reference. :)
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Watched the video of the good players. If that guy is number one college player in the States and number ten in the country then I will be surprised.

So many unforced errors. Every second or third shot was an error and mostly unforced.

Comparing that level to say a Andy Murray,reckon they would be doing well to get a game per set. With so many unforced errors,would just be handing the match to Andy.
ATP level is much higher than college level.
 

corbind

Professional
Watching only the first serve of the "5.0" video it was clear the label was off. Watching more confirmed it.
 
Self rating doesn't count. you are a 5.0 if you are ranked 5.0 by the USTA. if you can play 5.0 with just playing FH slice you are a 5.0. and if you hit like roger federer but play 4.0 you are not a 5.0, it's that simple (of course both is extremely unlikely but the point is that NTRP ratings are about the level you compete at and not about what strokes you can do- which is of course correlating).
 
Self rating doesn't count. you are a 5.0 if you are ranked 5.0 by the USTA. if you can play 5.0 with just playing FH slice you are a 5.0. and if you hit like roger federer but play 4.0 you are not a 5.0, it's that simple (of course both is extremely unlikely but the point is that NTRP ratings are about the level you compete at and not about what strokes you can do- which is of course correlating).
You are of course technically correct. However I still think that it is a useful short-hand for describing playing standards. Some of us don't live or play in the US, and some of us live in countries which don't even have a rating system at all.

Incidentally, does anyone have an answer to my question upthread at #22: A guy I know is applying for a tennis scholarship to a D2 College in the US. Roughly what NTRP level does D2 play equate to?
 

rufus_smith

Professional
I would guess that the average D2 college men players are roughly 5.0.

According to USTA guidelines the no. 1-75 top ranked US mens college player Div 1 players are supposed to be 6.0.
 
^^ Thanks.

5.0 Makes sense. This guy is much better than me and can bagel me when we play a set but it isn't like he is playing a different sport.
 

asimple

Semi-Pro
Clay and Denis are 6.0+. Di Giulio is 6.0+. I would rate myself around 5.0 as a benchmark. Not sure about Hawaiian Tennis Pro, he could be match savvy. Plus the video is not a complete match so it is hard to tell. With my match against Di Giulio, you can see a clear difference in his level of play and my level of play and how much better he is than me. I don't think most people are overrating themselves on the NTRP scale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t90qW1nGzZ8
Do you think using yourself as a benchmark for NTRP rating without actually having one might be a bit problematic?
 

Maximagq

Banned
Do you think using yourself as a benchmark for NTRP rating without actually having one might be a bit problematic?
Potentially that could be a problem. I should rephrase it to number 324 in the country for juniors on Tennis Recruiting or fairly high level rec player. The point is, there is NO WAY Clay and Denis are 5.0 level players. They are far too good to be rated that low for their calibers.
 

boramiNYC

Hall of Fame
I would guess that the average D2 college men players are roughly 5.0.

According to USTA guidelines the no. 1-75 top ranked US mens college player Div 1 players are supposed to be 6.0.
I would say avg D2 players are around 4.5. There are some at the top of the ranking that could reach even 5.5 but overall D2 tennis is not very deep. There are many D2 programs that don't even have one 5.0 level player. On the other hand avg D1 players should be 5.0.

A nationally ranked D2 program players we played in college seemed around 5.0 but not 5.5 IIRC.
 

Maximagq

Banned
I would say avg D2 players are around 4.5. There are some at the top of the ranking that could reach even 5.5 but overall D2 tennis is not very deep. There are many D2 programs that don't even have one 5.0 level player. On the other hand avg D1 players should be 5.0.

A nationally ranked D2 program players we played in college seemed around 5.0 but not 5.5 IIRC.
Are you sure about this? D2 programs like UCSD are pretty strong, they have James Boyd who was top 15 in the country I believe? Some D3 programs like CMU or CMS have 4-5 stars.
 

boramiNYC

Hall of Fame
Are you sure about this? D2 programs like UCSD are pretty strong, they have James Boyd who was top 15 in the country I believe? Some D3 programs like CMU or CMS have 4-5 stars.
I'm sure some highly ranked D2 programs very strong as you say. I was just making a point overall there are many D2 programs that are not very strong. On avg including all the programs I don't think it would be 5.0.
 
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