League Captain question about bad behavior

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
At a drill, a player known to be a hot head was upset with his play. He was upset with himself, not anyone else on the court. He missed another shot and snap threw his racquet in my general direction. Not a big problem, as it wasn't close, and he apologized a number of times. Fine. It's a drill, no harm - no foul. The instructor should've said something too, but that isn't the point of my post.

My question is as a first time captain this summer season, I'm wondering what if this happens in a league match with some hot head from another club. What are the options as a captain in a non-refereed league match?

If an opponent is upset (for any reason- he feels he is playing poorly, he didn't like a line call, etc) and he throws his racquet or fires a ball after a point in the general direction of one of my players... what is the protocol?
Is there some level at which he:
loses a point?
loses the match?
can my player chose to quit if he feels unsafe or threatened, and how is that matched scored then? Does my player lose for stopping play, or does the opponent lose for being a jerk? Would both captains have to agree to the "result"?

Basically how is a behavior like throwing a racquet or firing a ball at an opponent handled?

What about verbal tension? What if an opponent (or my player I guess) starts an argument that rises in intensity and becomes personal? As a captain I would stop my match at some point and try to de-escalate the situation... but what if one of the players is cursing the opponent calling someone an a-hole or MFer? Or challenges them to step outside?

To be clear, I have never seen this happen, but as a first time captain I am curious as to how it should be handled in the moment. I'm not talking about whether the player should or shouldn't be playing, or who should be the tough guy, just curious to inputs about how this would work out in a league match and hope it never occurs with or against one of my teams.

Thanks
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
I would like to know the answer as well.
Situation from earlier this week. My partner at net ... their net person dumps an overhead into the net. Then gets upset and fires the ball once she picked it up AT MY PARTNER"S HEAD! missed my partner. I do not know if she was actually aiming at my partner, but that sure is what it looked like.

We both spoke to her that her behavior was unsportsmanlike and that we could have her forfeit the match. We did not, nor did we demand that. The only thing we demanded was that she chill out.

It had not been her first display of anger, including launching a ball out of the court to the side into a field in anger. We spoke with her about that one too.

yes, what are the rules, protocol in these situations ?
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
I would like to know the answer as well.
Situation from earlier this week. My partner at net ... their net person dumps an overhead into the net. Then gets upset and fires the ball once she picked it up AT MY PARTNER"S HEAD! missed my partner. I do not know if she was actually aiming at my partner, but that sure is what it looked like.

We both spoke to her that her behavior was unsportsmanlike and that we could have her forfeit the match. We did not, nor did we demand that. The only thing we demanded was that she chill out.

It had not been her first display of anger, including launching a ball out of the court to the side into a field in anger. We spoke with her about that one too.

yes, what are the rules, protocol in these situations ?
There really isn't anything you can do without a referee being there. If it happens with an actual referee they could disqualify her, that happened to someone I know at state last year. But all you can do in a typical league match is file a grievance with the LLC and they might admonish the player.
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
If there is a violation of Rule 18 (Unsportsmanlike Conduct) during a point, or anytime during a match, You should halt play and get [1] referee [2] TD [3] representative or both team captains/co captains. Tell them this is a 1st warning and that their reps should stay and watch the match. If it happens again, loss or point....to default. If there is a dispute about behavior and no options are available, I would quit and tell the other team's captain that a protest will be filed against player X and the team captain for NOT enforcing rule 18. If there is verbal abuse, I wouldn't even continue with the match. I would tell both captains why and that a protest will be filed. Eventually player X will be banned and or the team disqualified. If the LLC does not do anything, go over their head. Jerks do not belong in league play and thankfully, the higher up you go, the less there are of them. Captains are aware of who those jerks are.
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
If there is a violation of Rule 18 (Unsportsmanlike Conduct) during a point, or anytime during a match, You should halt play and get [1] referee [2] TD [3] representative or both team captains/co captains. Tell them this is a 1st warning and that their reps should stay and watch the match. If it happens again, loss or point....to default. If there is a dispute about behavior and no options are available, I would quit and tell the other team's captain that a protest will be filed against player X and the team captain for NOT enforcing rule 18. If there is verbal abuse, I wouldn't even continue with the match. I would tell both captains why and that a protest will be filed. Eventually player X will be banned and or the team disqualified. If the LLC does not do anything, go over their head. Jerks do not belong in league play and thankfully, the higher up you go, the less there are of them. Captains are aware of who those jerks are.
Thank you very much. I will look that up, but I appreciate the outline. Cheers!
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
Depending on the circumstances, you can file a grievance after the match under rule 3.03A(1) for "violation of (i.) the USTA Constitution and Bylaws; (ii.) the USTA LEAGUE REGULATIONS; (iii.) the FRIEND AT COURT – The USTA Handbook of Tennis Rules and Regulations including The Code and Wheelchair Rules of Tennis (unless modified by these USTA LEAGUE REGULATIONS); or (iv.) the standards of good conduct, fair play and good sportsmanship"

https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/pdfs/2017_regs_for_web.pdf
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
I knew I (and others) could get some solid input here. Thanks JRB. Hopefully I never need to file protests or grievances.

(And hopefully everyone responds to availability in a timely fashion.... and shows up 15 minutes early... and doesn't complain about their partner or what court they are on. Right? Right?? I can hope... lol)
 

NTRPolice

Hall of Fame
Depending on the circumstances, you can file a grievance after the match under rule 3.03A(1) for "violation of (i.) the USTA Constitution and Bylaws; (ii.) the USTA LEAGUE REGULATIONS; (iii.) the FRIEND AT COURT – The USTA Handbook of Tennis Rules and Regulations including The Code and Wheelchair Rules of Tennis (unless modified by these USTA LEAGUE REGULATIONS); or (iv.) the standards of good conduct, fair play and good sportsmanship"

https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/pdfs/2017_regs_for_web.pdf
And make sure you DO NOT confirm the score. Let it automatically confirm under the 48 hour rule if anything. If it automatically confirms and you have an email dated and timestamped during that 48 hour period, at least you can say you did not intend for the scores of the match to confirm as you were going to file a protest which hasnt been responded to.

When match scores have been confirmed by your captain (especially) but wish to file a protest, the protest may not even be heard because the confirmation of scores implies the results of the match have been accepted by both parties.

DO NOT CONFIRM THE SCORE and FILE PROMPTLY! I cant stress this enough!
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
Thanks NTR.
Along that line, so the home team generally enters the final scores... is it considered a confirmation when I sign their score sheet, or is there something I do electronically that indicates my confirmation?
 

ohplease

Professional
I've seen that exact thing happen. Match was completed after the blow-up. A grievance was filed, offending player was banned for quite some time. You don't need a USTA official there, but they'll probably ask for multiple statements from team members from both teams.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
Thanks NTR.
Along that line, so the home team generally enters the final scores... is it considered a confirmation when I sign their score sheet, or is there something I do electronically that indicates my confirmation?
If the other team enters the score, you can go in to the scorecard online and either confirm or dispute what they entered. If you intend to file a grievance, you need to go in right away and dispute the score and then file the grievance. If you do nothing, the score is automatically confirmed in 2 days by the "48 hour rule". NTR's point is that if you actively confirm the score, it hurts your case for the grievance. If you do nothing and just let it confirm by the 48-hour rule, that's OK, but I think it's best to actively dispute the score. I disputed scores a couple times. Once was to file a grievance (a self-rating grievance against a guy who was a 5.0 level player that the captain rated himself that day to play 4.0 - I won the grievance). The other times were just to correct the lineup when the opposing captain entered the wrong players from my team (it happens...). I had a father-son duo on my team for a couple years with the same name, which caused some confusion more than once.
 

chikoo

Hall of Fame
At a drill, a player known to be a hot head was upset with his play. He was upset with himself, not anyone else on the court. He missed another shot and snap threw his racquet in my general direction. Not a big problem, as it wasn't close, and he apologized a number of times. Fine. It's a drill, no harm - no foul. The instructor should've said something too, but that isn't the point of my post.

My question is as a first time captain this summer season, I'm wondering what if this happens in a league match with some hot head from another club. What are the options as a captain in a non-refereed league match?

If an opponent is upset (for any reason- he feels he is playing poorly, he didn't like a line call, etc) and he throws his racquet or fires a ball after a point in the general direction of one of my players... what is the protocol?
Is there some level at which he:
loses a point?
loses the match?
can my player chose to quit if he feels unsafe or threatened, and how is that matched scored then? Does my player lose for stopping play, or does the opponent lose for being a jerk? Would both captains have to agree to the "result"?

Basically how is a behavior like throwing a racquet or firing a ball at an opponent handled?

What about verbal tension? What if an opponent (or my player I guess) starts an argument that rises in intensity and becomes personal? As a captain I would stop my match at some point and try to de-escalate the situation... but what if one of the players is cursing the opponent calling someone an a-hole or MFer? Or challenges them to step outside?

To be clear, I have never seen this happen, but as a first time captain I am curious as to how it should be handled in the moment. I'm not talking about whether the player should or shouldn't be playing, or who should be the tough guy, just curious to inputs about how this would work out in a league match and hope it never occurs with or against one of my teams.

Thanks
Be logical, compassionate and confident.
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
Be logical, compassionate and confident.
Generally I agree, but it's usually not very successful to confront uncontrolled emotion with logic (signed, a married man, lol), I can't feel very compassionate about a person who is acting like a jerk, and confidence comes from understanding the rules.
 

chikoo

Hall of Fame
Generally I agree, but it's usually not very successful to confront uncontrolled emotion with logic (signed, a married man, lol), I can't feel very compassionate about a person who is acting like a jerk, and confidence comes from understanding the rules.
U give up too easy. Logic rules.
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
No. Gotta disagree with you chikoo. Women are gifted with a special power... well, many special powers. One of them is a total disregard of logic when it applies to a position opposite of their own.

It works like this. They say, "I DON'T CARE.", and *poof*... your well crafted Websternian argument is just simply not valid.

It's over. Done.

I know man, I know. I've been in the trenches. It's like bringing a nerf gun to a nuclear war. It just doesn't matter.
 

eelhc

Hall of Fame
At a drill, a player known to be a hot head was upset with his play. He was upset with himself, not anyone else on the court. He missed another shot and snap threw his racquet in my general direction. Not a big problem, as it wasn't close, and he apologized a number of times. Fine. It's a drill, no harm - no foul. The instructor should've said something too, but that isn't the point of my post.

My question is as a first time captain this summer season, I'm wondering what if this happens in a league match with some hot head from another club. What are the options as a captain in a non-refereed league match?

If an opponent is upset (for any reason- he feels he is playing poorly, he didn't like a line call, etc) and he throws his racquet or fires a ball after a point in the general direction of one of my players... what is the protocol?
Is there some level at which he:
loses a point?
loses the match?
can my player chose to quit if he feels unsafe or threatened, and how is that matched scored then? Does my player lose for stopping play, or does the opponent lose for being a jerk? Would both captains have to agree to the "result"?

Basically how is a behavior like throwing a racquet or firing a ball at an opponent handled?

What about verbal tension? What if an opponent (or my player I guess) starts an argument that rises in intensity and becomes personal? As a captain I would stop my match at some point and try to de-escalate the situation... but what if one of the players is cursing the opponent calling someone an a-hole or MFer? Or challenges them to step outside?

To be clear, I have never seen this happen, but as a first time captain I am curious as to how it should be handled in the moment. I'm not talking about whether the player should or shouldn't be playing, or who should be the tough guy, just curious to inputs about how this would work out in a league match and hope it never occurs with or against one of my teams.

Thanks
This sort of behavior needs to be nipped at the bud. Stop the match, pull your player off the court and file a complaint with your league coordinator.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

MathGeek

Hall of Fame
U give up too easy. Logic rules.
For a married man, too much logic can lead to long spans of abstinence. Sometimes, silence rules.

It works like this. They say, "I DON'T CARE.", and *poof*... your well crafted Websternian argument is just simply not valid.

It's over. Done.

I know man, I know. I've been in the trenches. It's like bringing a nerf gun to a nuclear war. It just doesn't matter.
I am blessed enough to have a wife with a logical side who is a degreed scientist and engineer. Still, I realize that there are many times when the best (most peaceful) course is to simply let a matter slide. If it needs to be addressed, I circle back around at a time when all parties are likely to be more rational participants in the discussion. Often, by waiting, I realize that the wisest approach is simply to let the matter go.
 

chikoo

Hall of Fame
For a married man, too much logic can lead to long spans of abstinence. Sometimes, silence rules.
That is where compassion, patience and confidence comes into play. U can't be agressive about enforcing logic. Passionate emotional people will get madder.
 

the green god

Professional
No. Gotta disagree with you chikoo. Women are gifted with a special power... well, many special powers. One of them is a total disregard of logic when it applies to a position opposite of their own.

It works like this. They say, "I DON'T CARE.", and *poof*... your well crafted Websternian argument is just simply not valid.

It's over. Done.

I know man, I know. I've been in the trenches. It's like bringing a nerf gun to a nuclear war. It just doesn't matter.
As Eddie Albert told Burt Reynolds in the Longest Yard, "In this institution, to get along, you go along..."
 

coloskier

Legend
From my experience you ignore it and they get even madder. Make a snarky comment like "Did you used to throw shot put? Your racket toss kind of looked like it" and then their game falls apart.
 

kevrol

Hall of Fame
Rather than start a new thread on bad league behavior I'll just add this story from last night playing 40+ 3.5 match. Partner and I lost the spin so other team served and they elect to have Player B serve which was odd because he was the weaker player and had a much weaker serve than Player A. We break them, switch ends. I serve and get down 0-30, eventually get to deuce and after a couple of deuces we hold and are up 2-0. So it's Player A's service game. He has a pretty good serve and is hitting serves that are either in or are so close the net player has to call them because from the baseline they look good (Har-Tru courts so there's a mark.) At Ad-In I'm receiving serve. Again he hits what to me looks like a good serve and as I'm swinging my partner calls it out. The guy goes ballistic yelling about how we need to stop hitting back serves that are out and that we've "both done it multiple times", "you can't do that", "it's game point", etc. I explain they look good from the baseline so I have to assume it's in and there's no rule against hitting them back. He ends up holding his serve. As we are all approaching the net I tried to engage politely and again say that it's the net man making the call and I can't hit, look for the mark and call it out before committing to the return. He goes off again saying, "well what do you do when you're playing singles?" and on and on. Anyways the guy didn't say two words to me the rest of the match and walked off without saying anything even after I apologized we got off on the wrong foot. Just an example of 1% of the players just ruining a perfectly pleasant evening.
 
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blakesq

Hall of Fame
Kevrol, if it is a floater server, hit softly into the net. but if it is a hard serve, and you do not have time to know its out, then its perfectly fine to return the ball and have your partner call it out. sounds like your opponent was in a bad mood because they were down 2-0, and anything was going to set him off.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
The guy goes ballistic yelling about how we need to stop hitting back serves that are out and that we've "both done it multiple times", "you can't do that", "it's game point", etc. .
I would never get upset with something like that ... seriously the 1% ...

Do have a question, what is the "proper" etiquette ? I tend to try and NOT hit the bad serve back, but sometimes it happens. (I'm so fast that my hitting is faster than the speed of sound from my partner LOL!) Is there an official rule?'
 

kevrol

Hall of Fame
I would never get upset with something like that ... seriously the 1% ...

Do have a question, what is the "proper" etiquette ? I tend to try and NOT hit the bad serve back, but sometimes it happens. (I'm so fast that my hitting is faster than the speed of sound from my partner LOL!) Is there an official rule?'
Section 17 of The Code
Prompt calls eliminate two chance option. A player shall make all calls promptly after a ball has hit the court. A call shall be made either before the player’s return shot has gone out of play or before an opponent has had an opportunity to play the return shot.


It's perfectly legal to hit them back.
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Your partner should be calling the service line parallel to the net. You call the lines perpendicular to the net. As soon as the ball hits the court, there should be an out call if warranted otw they assume the ball was in. You can return even if your partner calls the ball out. If you wait after an exchange, it is way too late.

The snarky comment about 'When playing singles' also should be played by the same rules. However, I have seen players play balls that are 1-2 inches out because they cannot call the ball long based on the angle they see the ball. That's as it should be. You should try placing the ball 1-2" past the service line and standing in your ready position. It is very hard to see if the ball is on the line or out.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
No. Gotta disagree with you chikoo. Women are gifted with a special power... well, many special powers. One of them is a total disregard of logic when it applies to a position opposite of their own.

It works like this. They say, "I DON'T CARE.", and *poof*... your well crafted Websternian argument is just simply not valid.

It's over. Done.

I know man, I know. I've been in the trenches. It's like bringing a nerf gun to a nuclear war. It just doesn't matter.
The fault lies with you for even trying to argue with a woman. That is the least logical thing I've ever heard of
 
D

Deleted member 293577

Guest
I've never seen anyone throw something at someone or have it reach a point of wanting to physically fight. Verbal tension on the other hand happens all the time. Remember that we play tennis because we enjoy it!! It just isn't worth it if someone wants to be a ****. If someone wants to contact the league coordinator, fine, but most of the time just play through it and move on with your life.
 

g4driver

Legend
This type of behavior happened several years back to two friends while they were playing a 3.5 doubles match. The offending player was about to lose the match and called a second serve that landed in the middle of the service box out. The partner overused him and the match was then over.

As the four players approached the next the guy who called the serve out started talking about the opponents girlfriend or mom
And dropped the "W" word instead of the calling her a "Ho", he used the "W" word. Multiple witnesses to this drama.

The winners have the larger partner who is s guy about 6'3" 230 holding his 6' 200 pound partner from killing the guy who dropped the "W" word. While being held back, the loser hits the guy being held with a his frame. [emoji102]

Yes, he hit the opponent with his frame then ran. The local league banned the player for one year.

MisterP knows the player who was hit, the player who held him back and probably remembers the coward who called his opponent's girlfriend or mom a "W", hit the opponent with a frame then ran.

The 6'3" opponent said "I held "Mike" back because I knew he would had killed "Patrick"if he got to him" I have no doubt "Patrick" would be sucking food through a straw had "Mike" broken free. You can't make this stuff up.
 
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