thomas daniels

Semi-Pro
If you do your research on the great coach Harry Hopman.

You will find that, he coached the Australian Davis Cup team for 20 years and developed all the top players over there and also worked with McEnroe and Gerulatis when they were young in the US.

I learned from Jim Corbertt in Missouri, who was taught by him.

So, that is how I was introduce to his coaching philosophy.

Which was teaching from the inside out, meaning that.

You find out what the player does naturally, then you build on and around it in practice and it works, because by coaching and learning this way.

The player can discover and develop their own authentic style of play very quickly.

This is all done through repetition too.

I'm going to go a little future here and say that... "Even though Hopman didn't say this directly, he knew that, the repetition determine the mechanics".

Why do I say that?

Because that is what I discovered while coaching all levels for 29 years in Kansai.

Didn't matter the age either.

Through adjusting after every rep, the mechanics would take shape on their own(this is the coaching part that many coaching aren't aware of too) and the player would develop their own authentic style of play eventually.

We can see the examples of this all around us too.

Look at all the different styles of play on TV and the mechanics that they are using during play.

That all came from learning from the inside-out.

I read in one interview that, coaches wanted Hopman to change John's form on his serve and he strokes when he first started coaching him, but he refused and they kept trying, but he knew that John would develop from the inside out under his coaching philosophy and that is exactly what happened.

And we know the rest is history.

Anyway.

My coaching point to you is this...

Don't try to make any big changes with your strokes or matchplay game.

Instead.

Be aware of, what you do naturally and build on and around it, through repetitions, and allow the mechanics to take place on their own, through making nonstop adustments after every rep, until you discover the stroke.

This is really the modern way to learn the game, it's also the fastest way to learn it.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
So, that is how I was introduce to his coaching philosophy.

Which was teaching from the inside out, meaning that.

You find out what the player does naturally, then you build on and around it in practice and it works, because by coaching and learning this way.

I think this makes a lot of sense.

A motivational speaker told a story about a rabbit who began school with running and jumping but then had to take swimming and flying. He hated school.

I'm going to go a little future here and say that... "Even though Hopman didn't say this directly, he knew that, the repetition determine the mechanics".

But what if the repetition is using sub-optimal or even bad mechanics? Would you try to get the student to use better mechanics even if it meant going against what's "natural" for them?

I used to hit my BH with the same face of the racquet as my FH. I had a very successful first year of HS [my coach wasn't dumb] but after season was over, he made me switch. That was painful but it obviously was the best course of action.

My coaching point to you is this...

Don't try to make any big changes with your strokes or matchplay game.

Instead.

Be aware of, what you do naturally and build on and around it, through repetitions, and allow the mechanics to take place on their own, through making nonstop adustments after every rep, until you discover the stroke.

This is really the modern way to learn the game, it's also the fastest way to learn it.

I'm less dogmatic: if I see a major flaw, that's going to require a major change. The student might do quite well against his peers but it will be a major impediment to future improvement.

"Natural" is a combination of what is bio-mechanically sound and what we're accustomed to. The two don't always align and indeed sometimes conflict.
 

thomas daniels

Semi-Pro
Uummm... not the modern way. Hopman died in 85.
I just hope you aren't coaching, because the great coaches concepts transends time, meaning they are viable today as they were back then, just like the other great coaches in our sports history.

Sorry, I just went over your head... but hopefully you we eventually get it.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I just hope you aren't coaching, because the great coaches concepts transends time, meaning they are viable today as they were back then, just like the other great coaches in our sports history.

Sorry, I just went over your head... but hopefully you we eventually get it.

Physics concepts are the same now as 10,000 years ago but we now have satellites, cell phones and Angry Birds. What's changed? Technology and the ability to transform raw materials into something more useful [one could argue Angry Birds has reduced productivity but that's another subject].

Tennis concepts are the same now as when the game was invented but technology as well as knowledge about psychology, nutrition, physio, training regimens, etc. has transformed coaching.

Yes, some concepts transcend time and the one you mentioned from Hopman seems to fall into that category. But I'm sure many concepts have fallen by the wayside due to improved technology and knowledge.

I think the key is to not be too dogmatic.
 

LuckyR

Legend
I just hope you aren't coaching, because the great coaches concepts transends time, meaning they are viable today as they were back then, just like the other great coaches in our sports history.

Sorry, I just went over your head... but hopefully you we eventually get it.

I just hope English isn't your first language. Whether Hopman's concepts are revelent or not today is an interesting discussion, but not what I was addressing. I was noting that his ideas are, by definition old (not modern) since he came up with them before most on this Forum were born. Doesn't make them good or bad, just old.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I just hope English isn't your first language. Whether Hopman's concepts are revelent or not today is an interesting discussion, but not what I was addressing. I was noting that his ideas are, by definition old (not modern) since he came up with them before most on this Forum were born. Doesn't make them good or bad, just old.

I think he was not looking at when the concept was articulated but whether it was timeless.

You're technically correct; I just don't think that was the gist of his argument.
 

LuckyR

Legend
I think he was not looking at when the concept was articulated but whether it was timeless.

You're technically correct; I just don't think that was the gist of his argument.
I agree with both of your points.

I guess IMO if you are going to use a Forum to lecture, instead of ask questions, the only replies are going to be critiques so you better have some humility instead of bravado.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I agree with both of your points.

I guess IMO if you are going to use a Forum to lecture, instead of ask questions, the only replies are going to be critiques so you better have some humility instead of bravado.

Yeah; I questioned some of his early proposals and he branded me a "stupid clown" and an "energy vampire" and blocked me. C'est la vie.
 

thomas daniels

Semi-Pro
I just hope English isn't your first language. Whether Hopman's concepts are revelent or not today is an interesting discussion, but not what I was addressing. I was noting that his ideas are, by definition old (not modern) since he came up with them before most on this Forum were born. Doesn't make them good or bad, just old.
I use and have used the same coaching philosophy and it works, so maybe you should think about your own coaching ohilosophy if you have one, before you comment... that is the point I was trying to tell YOU.
 
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