Left hand forehand (choke grip) vs 2 handed backhand

[JB5]

Hi, Would like some feedback on drawbacks of using a lefthanded forehand (holding the racquet at the spot where the left hand would be with the two handed backhand of a right handed player), versus using the conventional two handed backhand.

The main drawback seems to be that the left hand is not at the bottom of the grip, so you lose some leverage (power). However, it seems to me that you would still have a wider swing arc than with a 2 handed backhand (which could mitigate the power difference somewhat).

The benefit (imo) of gripping the lefthanded FH that way is there is no problem switching between forehands on either side (your hands are already there).

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Possibly more details might help: my daughter (13 years old) has been playing about 2 years, and for the last 9 months has been using forehands from both sides. Her right hand FH is better than her left FH, and she can still hit a 2HBH (but likes the feeling of the lefthanded FH better, more of a full, non restricted swing than the 2HBH). Unless there is a big disadvantage, would like to stay with the lefthanded FH. I don't know what 'level' she is at right now in skill (probably somewhere in the late beginner stage), would like to play HS tennis if she qualifies, otherwise recreational. Meaning it probably doesn't matter a whole lot, but if there is some big problem I'm not aware of, now would be the time to make the switch back to the 2HBH (better sooner than later if a switch back is needed). Thanks!

 

[styksnstryngs]

Yeah, a lot less control and power at higher levels

 

[Deleted member 23235]

can't comment on high level play (i've taught myself a lefty fh to say the low 3.5 level)
but this guy seems pretty solid with it..

i honestly think this is the next evolution of the tennis game, when a fed-like ambidextrous athlete comes along...

compared to holding the grip at the edge, less rhs..
but compared to say a 2hbh, more rhs potential, but slightly less stability (of the second hand), but IMO not a big deal (ie. we do this for 1bh, and 1hfh anyway)

 

[JB5]

I've seen that guy hitting before, looks nice! It appears that he is holding the racquet at the bottom of the grip for both his forehand strokes. If this is feasible, then my daughter can just do this and then there is no issue. However, just concerned about when there is not enough time to switch grips like that. I guess since she can hit a 2HBH (good enough to return it), if needed that can be the mode when there is not enough time (seems overly complicated though).

 

[Deleted member 120290]

I've hit with choked up lefty FH as you described for a different reason. I had a bad case of right arm tennis elbow and at age 50, hitting many 2hbh strains my lower back .

Choked up lefty FH gives you more reach, topspin, side spin. You can really pull your opponent off the court with wicked side spin.
However you are basically hitting with a practically a 24" racket. The power difference between choked up lefty FH and full length lefty FH is significant.

Like @nytennisaddict, I can beat most 3.5 hitting with choked up lefty FH but need to hit with 2HBH to beat most 4.0.
I tried putting both hands at the bottom of the racket to get full racket length off both sides FH but there simply isn't enough time in a match.
Maybe someone who is more skilled and faster can do it.
Simon, the very advanced player in the video, himself said he doesn't use 2 FH's because he doesn't have enough time to switch hands in a match.

So my conclusion is (1) there is not enough time to hit full length FH's from both sides and (2) choked up lefty FH gives up too much power even compared to a 2hbh.
Many advanced girls that I see have 2hbh that are just as good as or even better than their FH.

 

[J011yroger]

That lefty forehand is going to turn into a rocking 2hbh. I train my BH alternating 10 balls lefty FH 10 balls two handed.

J

 

[dominikk1985]

There was a guy who made it like top500 in the world with two forehands like a decade ago but I think there is a reason it is rare. Don't try to 're invent tennis, there have been fore and backhands for 100 years in tennis and probably for good reason.

 

[JB5]

Thanks guys, getting some good solid info. Please keep the replies coming, more data will help confirm what I'm hearing. yeah, I was wondering why what seemed like a 'great idea' wasn't more common!

 

[jm1980]

There was a guy who made it like top500 in the world with two forehands like a decade ago but I think there is a reason it is rare. Don't try to 're invent tennis, there have been fore and backhands for 100 years in tennis and probably for good reason.

There's a kid doing it now, floating around the Top 300

 

[golden chicken]

Having two forehands means you're in a bit of trouble when someone hits hard right at you.

 

[JB5]

@jm1980, that player is interesting. In that video, while he mostly hits lefthanded FH's, I spotted him mix in a 1 handed BH and a couple 2HBH's.

@golden chicken, yeah! I suspect the player in the above video would use a case like that to mix in his 1hbh maybe.?.

 

[golden chicken]

That means you have more strokes to learn and master. Left and right serves. Left and right forehands. You still have to learn a backhand. You still have to learn a forehand and backhand volley. Do you hit overheads on both sides?

If you're of the lucky small percentage of people who are truly ambidextrous, then by all means, but most of us have a strong side.

 

[2forehands]

This comes up quite regularly so you might search some of my (and others) previous posts related to this.
Here are my thoughts on this situation and the usual comments that follow;

1) The switch between hands can be learnt and can be successful (Kim & Rosenzweig are male pro players that spring to mind). I personally prefer to start with a LH grip at the bottom as the switch to RH seems more natural (because I'm righthanded so the Serve-to-FH and SliceBh-to-Topspin Bh grip changes has been ingrained and this helps the switch).

2) Using a choked-up grip is probably not the most effective however Kulikovskaya used it (she was a preferred lefty with a choked righty forehand) and got into the top100. Your daughter could always play around with a longer racquet (I use a 28inch). To me creating high levels of power off both sides isn't everything. If it was then those players that predominately use a slice BH would never make pro (e.g. Feliciano Lopez, dare I say Dan Evans).

3) There is no need to be truly ambidextrous to play this way. Learning to hit any forehand is a function of practice. It is a skill. Some examples might add context. Pat Venditte was a major league baseball switch pitcher who learnt to throw with both hands however he does very little else with his left hand - he is not truly ambidextrous (born that way), very few people are and most struggle in a wide range activities because of it. Furthermore, there are plenty of activities that require high level of coordination from the non-dominant hand that are not limited by handedness nor do they receive any special praise or suspicion of ambidexterity (e.g. musicians - piano, guitar etc).

4) It will be a very very fast ball that would cause a problem with this approach (assuming player at baseline). The issue becomes one of shot priority and priming. You do not want (not that this will ever be achieved due to neurological development) an equal response weighting so you simply train for it. Kim's solution of BH's and FH's off both sides is one way to overcome this and requires less switching when pushed. Learning to hit a non-dominant two-handed backhand is pretty easy so that just leaves a dominant backhand which could be a slice (e.g. Collin Johns approach). Whilst it does mean a few more shots, I do not believe this is anyway detrimental to a players development of all shots (you may wish to look up some non-dominant transfer effects research).

I would let your daughter explore the solutions from these likely problems.

 

[JB5]

I think the first experiment will be to see if she can switch back and forth (with hand at bottom of FH grip's) using the RH grip at bottom as the starting point (so if she doesn't have time to switch to LH FH grip at the bottom she can hit a RH 2HBH). We'll see how that goes ...

 

[jm1980]

Kim's solution of BH's and FH's off both sides is one way to overcome this and requires less switching when pushed. Learning to hit a non-dominant two-handed backhand is pretty easy so that just leaves a dominant backhand which could be a slice (e.g. Collin Johns approach).

Does Kim have a lefty BH?

 

[2forehands]

Does Kim have a lefty BH?

My bad, getting confused with Simon's hitting every shot stuff. Kim sometimes keeps his left hand on the racquet for a bit longer when hitting a right FH but I cannot find footage of him hit a Lefty BH. Maybe even at pro level, you don't get caught out very often. I dont think it would hurt to have it in your locker just in case and the practice can still have positive effects on your dominant backhand through bilateral transfer effects.

Ah well this stuff will never catch on anyway, too much dogma not enough creativity in heavily coached sports like tennis. Not coach bashing per se (I am one!) just the nature of most coaching I see.

 

[JB5]

Had a question about volleying (at the net or mid court). Assuming she stays with both forehands (gripping racket at the bottom), what would the recommendation be for volleying? Assuming for volleying it's ok to keep her left hand in the choked up position and continue to hit both forehand volleys.

Meaning when she finds herself transitioning to the net, at some point (determined by proximity to the net I guess) she'd make the decision to keep her left hand in the choked up position for balls coming to her left side. Is that the thought?

 

[golden chicken]

Whichever hand serves is the one I'd keep at the bottom so S&V and doubles contains fewer transitions.

 

[JB5]

That's what I'm thinking, her right hand would always be at the bottom of the racket for volleys (at least she wouldn't transition the left hand to the bottom ever for volleys). She would volley one handed when ball comes to RH side. And I'm assuming she'd volley with the choked up lefty grip when ball comes to the backhand side. (her right hand could be still on the grip sometimes (or not), mainly wanted to make sure the recommendation was to do this versus just using a one handed right handed backhand volley). (hope this is clear, feeling that I'm having a hard time explaining what I'm trying to say!)

 

[golden chicken]

Like I said before, you still want a backhand volley in order to protect yourself from shots hit right at you.

 

[JB5]

fyi: She has moved to a 2HBH, and had no problem with the transition. (thanks again for the replies above)

Hah, the old man (myself) has moved to the two forehands approach though, since my right wrist gets sore easy and the backhand stroke is much harder on it than the forehand stroke. And I found a way to hold the racket in between shots so that there is no issue with transitioning to a left FH or right FH (while gripping the racket at the base of the handle for maximum leverage). Simply hold the racket at the bottom of the handle with both hands and abut your thumbs together so the center of Bevel # 1 is on a line that goes right between the thumbs. You'll find (at least for me) that you have an eastern grip with both hands (which is what I use for the FH).

 

[Deleted member 120290]

fyi: She has moved to a 2HBH, and had no problem with the transition. (thanks again for the replies above)

Hah, the old man (myself) has moved to the two forehands approach though, since my right wrist gets sore easy and the backhand stroke is much harder on it than the forehand stroke. And I found a way to hold the racket in between shots so that there is no issue with transitioning to a left FH or right FH (while gripping the racket at the base of the handle for maximum leverage). Simply hold the racket at the bottom of the handle with both hands and abut your thumbs together so the center of Bevel # 1 is on a line that goes right between the thumbs. You'll find (at least for me) that you have an eastern grip with both hands (which is what I use for the FH).

Glad your daughter is doing well with 2hbh.

I'll experiment with your grip method as I'm finding increasingly that 2hbh is no stroke for old men (mostly due to lower back strain.)

 

[Frank Silbermann]

I played for a while with one long forehand and one short forehand. Then about six years ago I switched to using double-handled rackets. (www.naturalTennis.com). Also, there's someone in Italy who can convert any racket to have two handles, and also has a wider variety of variations in the angle of the two handles.

She'll need some type of backhand to protect her body when she's at the net -- even if she normally uses two forehands. I had volleyed with right-hand only for two many years, I just couldn't get fast enough switching hands at the net.

Considering how rare it is for people to seriously try to play this way, I think the degree of success that has been achieved by some is actually remarkable. And considering how stiff the competition is these days, your daughter's best hope of making a mark might be a radically different technique.

One thing I think is appropriate for two-handed play is not to go overboard with western grips. It seems to me that the extreme western player strengthens the inside-out forehand at the expense of the conventional cross-court. With two identical forehands you'd almost never want to run around the ball -- so you would mainly be hitting mostly straight down-the-line and conventional cross-courts. A grip that is only slightly semi-western would seem ideal for that.