Legendary Racquet Hoop Dimensions

[Grafil Injection]

Possibly the most exciting thread of all time. Would be amazing if owners of the rackets with missing data (Blade 98) could reply and I'll complete the table. Key takeaways: all rackets are about 3/4 ovals, with the Yonex rectangular shape being only about 6% more oval than the Prince round shape for example. The Rossignol F-200 is an outlier because of its inverted bridge making a very square hoop, as are snow-shoes being ridiculously oval. Most modern rackets are tear-drop shaped, the widest part of the hoop being around 1cm north of the centre of the hoop. The typical distance from the handle to that wide centre lies in a fairly narrow range too, from about 20.25 inches to 21.75 inches, despite huge differences in hoop size.

 

[Kevo]

It would be helpful to put the units on everything. Even with the unit on cross section I might need some extra help on figuring out what that one refers to.

 

[jxs653]

Head Edge is the most elongated I think, and so isn't its "roundness" supposed to be lower than, say, Pro Staff 85?

 

[Grafil Injection]

It would be helpful to put the units on everything. Even with the unit on cross section I might need some extra help on figuring out what that one refers to.

Good idea. I changed it to mm to be consistent with the beam, and labeled it. It's the width of the front of the beam.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Head Edge is the most elongated I think, and so isn't its "roundness" supposed to be lower than, say, Pro Staff 85?

Roundness is calculated simply as max width / max length, so it is doesn't matter how egg-shaped or teardrop the hoop is, just the ultimate slenderness (rectangularity). The Head Edges are fairly 'normal' amount of roundness, even though they are strongly tear-dropped.

 

[jxs653]

Roundness is calculated simply as max width / max length, so it is doesn't matter how egg-shaped or teardrop the hoop is, just the ultimate slenderness. The Head Edges are fairly 'normal' amount of roundness, even though they are a bit tear-dropped.

I see. But still I think the "max width / max length" value should be the lowest with Edge because as I wrote it has the most elongated (or slender, in your word) head. I guess I'll check with my frames myself.

 

[Grafil Injection]

I see. But still I think the "max width / max length" value should be the lowest with Edge because as I wrote it has the most elongated (or slender, in your word) head. I guess I'll check with my frames myself.

If you put a PS85 on top of an Edge (Graphite, Comfort, Comp etc.) you'll see they are very similar roundness, just the PS85 is about 2mm bigger radius all round. The Head is just more tear-drop skewed, the PS85 more evenly oval. So the Head appears long because of the slenderness at the bottom, but that is offset by the slightly flattened top.

 

[yonexRx32]

Possibly the most exciting thread of all time. Would be amazing if owners of the rackets with missing data (Prestige, Blade, Aero) could reply and I'll complete the table. Key takeaway: all rackets are about 3/4 ovals, with Yonex about 6% more oval than Prince at the extremes.

CMs (unless stated otherwise)		Square Inches​	Beam (mm)​	Width​	Cross Section (mm)​	Length​	Roundness​
				Interior​		Interior​	​
Dunlop	MaxPly (Fort etc.)	68​	18​	20.2​	11.5​	27.5​	73.5%​
Dunlop	MAX 200G / 300i	84​	21.5​	​ 23​	11.5​	30​	76.7%​
Head	Edge (Graphite etc.)	82​	19​	​ 22.6​	10​	30​	75.3%​
Wilson	Pro-Staff 85	85​	17.5​	​ 22.7​	12​	30.5​	74.4%​
Head	Prestige Pro	89.5​	19​
Yonex	RQ-180	90​	25​	​ 22.3​	12.5​	31.5​	70.6%​
Prince	Prince 90 (POG etc.)	93​	19​	​ 24.2​	10.5​	31.5​	76.8%​
Head	PT57 (Radical Tour etc)	95​	20.5​
Wilson	Six One 95	95​	21.5​	​ 23.8​	12​	32​	74.4%​
Dunlop	MW / Revelation 200G	95​	20.5​	​ 23.9​	10.5​	32.5​	73.5%​
Wilson	PS97/ RF97	97​	21.5​	​ 24​	13​	32​	75.0%​
Wilson	Blade 98	98​	20.5​
Babolat	Pure Aero	100​	24​
Prince	Prince 110 (POG etc.)	107​	19​	​ 26​	10​	33.8​	77.0%​
Average					11​		74.7%​

Pretty sure I saw quite a few Head Edge racquets labeled 81.1 sq. In.

 

[jxs653]

Roundness is calculated simply as max width / max length, ...

... still I think the "max width / max length" value should be the lowest with Edge because as I wrote it has the most elongated (or slender, in your word) head. I guess I'll check with my frames myself.

The numbers I got:

Max 200G: 23.0/30.3 .759
Edge: 22.1/30.1 .734
PS Mid: 23.3/30.8 .756 (measured without the pws)

So there are some discrepancies with the numbers provided in your OP.

 

[jxs653]

If you put a PS85 on top of an Edge (Graphite, Comfort, Comp etc.) you'll see they are very similar roundness, just the PS85 is about 2mm bigger radius all round. The Head is just more tear-drop skewed, the PS85 more evenly oval. So the Head appears long because of the slenderness at the bottom, but that is offset by the slightly flattened top.

I only have a couple of Graphite Edges and I am not sure it is tear-drop skewed...

 

[Grafil Injection]

Pretty sure I saw quite a few Head Edge racquets labeled 81.1 sq. In.

Yeah, some early US models state that but the adverts state 82sqi so I think that is more appropriate rather than presenting pseudo accuracy.

 

[Grafil Injection]

I only have a couple of Graphite Edges and I am not sure it is tear-drop skewed...

Virtually all rackets are slightly tear dropped, meaning the widest point is above the north south centre. The Edges are notably so. Exceptions are the well known eggs from Kneissl, Puma etc, but a perfectly even oval is very rare. I will add a skewness measure.

 

[Grafil Injection]

The numbers I got:

Max 200G: 23.0/30.3 .759
Edge: 22.1/30.1 .734
PS Mid: 23.3/30.8 .756 (measured without the pws)

So there are some discrepancies with the numbers provided in your OP.

I used inside of the PWS since you can't hit with it, so yes would be about 23.3 with the PWS. Your Edges are thinner than my 5 different versions, which are all in the 22.3mm to 22.7mm width range. What version are your Graphites? The 200Gs are very close.

Edit: Table amended to present more consistent measure for Wilson rackets with PWS, by adding 3mm x 2 to their PWS-to-PWS widths. Results checked with similar rackets without PWS, like GR300 for PS85 and Pro Braided for Six.One 95.

 

[jxs653]

I used inside of the PWS since you can't hit with it, so yes would be about 23.3 with the PWS. Your Edges are thinner than my 5 different versions, which are all in the 22.3mm to 22.7mm width range. What version are your Graphites? The 200Gs are very close.

Oh it's Graphite Edge,, the black one with individual grommets, gold&red stripes.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Oh it's Graphite Edge,, the black one with individual grommets, gold&red stripes.

I have noticed about +/- 2mm is present on sticks I have multiple versions of. I'm adding a skewness measure now, and the Edge comes out near the most tear-dropped with the maximum width being 2.5cm above the north-south centre. Would be good to get your measure of that as I think that the early Edges may have been slightly different to my mid-era versions.

 

[retrowagen]

Possibly the most exciting thread of all time. Would be amazing if owners of the rackets with missing data (Prestige, Blade, Aero) could reply and I'll complete the table. Key takeaway: all rackets are about 3/4 ovals, with Yonex about 6% more oval than Prince at the extremes.

CMs (unless stated otherwise)		Square Inches​	Beam (mm)​	Width​	Skewness*​	Length​	Roundness​
				Interior​		Interior​	​
Dunlop	MaxPly (Fort etc.)	68​	16​	20.2​	-1​	27.5​	73.5%​
Dunlop	MAX 200G / 300i	84​	21.5​	​ 23​	+2​	30​	76.7%​
Head	Edge (Graphite etc.)	82​	18​	​ 22.6​	+2.5​	30​	75.3%​
Wilson	Pro-Staff 85	85​	17.5​	​ 22.7​	+1​	30.5​	74.4%​
Head	Prestige Pro	89.5​	19​
Yonex	RQ-180	90​	25​	​ 22.3​	+1​	31.5​	70.6%​
Prince	Prince 90 (POG etc.)	93​	19​	​ 24.2​	+1​	31.5​	76.8%​
Head	PT57 (Radical Tour etc)	95​	20.5​
Wilson	Six One 95	95​	21.5​	​ 23.8​	+1​	32​	74.4%​
Dunlop	MW / Revelation 200G	95​	20.5​	​ 23.9​	+2​	32.5​	73.5%​
Wilson	PS97/ RF97	97​	21.5​	​ 24​	​	32​	75.0%​
Wilson	Blade 98	98​	20.5​
Babolat	Pure Aero	100​	24​
Prince	Prince 110 (POG etc.)	107​	19​	​ 26​	+1​	33.8​	77.0%​
Average					​		74.7%​

* - skewness = distance between widest point and north-south centre in cm. + indicates tear-drop shape, - indicates egg shape.

HOOP! There it is!

(sorry, everyone; couldn’t resist)

 

[Kevo]

My Rossignol F230:

Hoop: 85 sq. in. (this is the published number I have seen, but it doesn't quite match up with the +25% in published literature I've seen as well, so it could be as low as 81.25)
height 27.8mm
width 23.4mm

Beam:
width 19mm
cross section 13mm

When I looked at skewness just based on the middle distance of the hoop north south I could not detect any. Given how the throat bridge is inverted I suppose you could say the center extends a little lower than the middle of the throat and introduce a bit of skew that way, but it's a bit of an academic question and I'm not sure which way to even argue it. I did verify that the mains at the throat are actually the same length due to the throat bridge and I think that is pretty neat.

 

[jxs653]

I have noticed about +/- 2mm is present on sticks I have multiple versions of. I'm adding a skewness measure now, and the Edge comes out near the most tear-dropped with the maximum width being 2.5cm above the north-south centre. Would be good to get your measure of that as I think that the early Edges may have been slightly different to my mid-era versions.

Yes it gets slightly wider (approx. 1mm) toward the north from the center and seems widest around 1cm above the center. But the imbalance is very minute and I'd hardly call it tear-drop shape.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Yes it gets slightly wider (approx. 1mm) toward the north from the center and seems widest around 1cm above the center. But the imbalance is very minute and I'd hardly call it tear-drop shape.

Yeah, I think our eyes get used to the teardrop shape, because it's the natural form tapering down to the handle, but we spot egg-shapes rapidly because they are rarer and unnatural. For example, the MAX 200G is just as tear-dropped as the Phantom IMF is egg-shaped:

 

[Grafil Injection]

My Rossignol F230:

Hoop: 85 sq. in. (this is the published number I have seen, but it doesn't quite match up with the +25% in published literature I've seen as well, so it could be as low as 81.25)
height 27.8mm
width 23.4mm

Beam:
width 19mm
cross section 13mm

When I looked at skewness just based on the middle distance of the hoop north south I could not detect any. Given how the throat bridge is inverted I suppose you could say the center extends a little lower than the middle of the throat and introduce a bit of skew that way, but it's a bit of an academic question and I'm not sure which way to even argue it. I did verify that the mains at the throat are actually the same length due to the throat bridge and I think that is pretty neat.

85sqi is 125% of 68sqi, which is the Standard definition Wilson and Dunlop also used.

So the F230 is comfortably the most round shape we've come across at 84%.

Yes, the Rossis harmonised the mainstrings. Unfortunately, they did that by shortening the centres to be about the same length of a Standard sized racket. Whereas, the Prince Response for example harmonised them to be all the length of the centre mains.

I'll add my F200 specs to the table, as that's a bit more well known.

 

[Kevo]

Interesting. I thought standard was 65sq. in. Math works out nicely if it's 68 instead.

I also don't mind the shorter length of the mains. I love the feel of wood racquets with the small head. The problem for me is I like to make attempts at excessive spin and the width across the face is not so good for that. With the thin beam and reasonable width the Rossi does quite nicely.

 

[Kevo]

Yeah, I think our eyes get used to the teardrop shape, because it's the natural form tapering down to the handle, but we spot egg-shapes rapidly because they are rarer and unnatural. For example, the MAX 200G is just as tear-dropped as the Phantom IMF is egg-shaped:

My previous long term frames, the PC95/PSL, were clearly egg shaped with the wide part being near the throat. I was well aware of it from the first time I play tested a PSL, and it was definitely more obvious being skinny up top as most frames go the other way.

 

[Grafil Injection]

F200 details added to the table, and it has the same very square\round dimensions like the f230. Makes me wonder if there was ever a perfectly round racket hoop, or even one that was wider than it was tall? Ergonom excluded.

 

[teachingprotx]

Yeah, I think our eyes get used to the teardrop shape, because it's the natural form tapering down to the handle, but we spot egg-shapes rapidly because they are rarer and unnatural. For example, the MAX 200G is just as tear-dropped as the Phantom IMF is egg-shaped:

Whoa great call

 

[Grafil Injection]

Not a legend, but the Fin Genius must be one of the most oval designs. At 34cm x 23cm it's 67.5% oval and is also evenly oval with just 0.5cm skew.

 

[kevin qmto]

Not a legend, but the Fin Genius must be one of the most oval designs. At 34cm x 23cm it's 67.5% oval and is also evenly oval with just 0.5cm skew.

I like the ‘not pws’ just above 3 and 9.

 

[Grafil Injection]

I like the ‘not pws’ just above 3 and 9.

Yes, deftly avoiding the patent I assume, with 4 bulges at slightly strange positions. Probably not just marketing, since the balance is 31cm (10pt HL) strung, so some extra weight at the top may be necessary.

 

[PistolPete23]

Fischer Vacuum Pro 90 had a pretty elongated hoop. I’ll measure mine tomorrow.

 

[PistolPete23]

Fischer VCP90

width: 22.5 cm
length: 32.5 cm
roundness: 69.2%

 

[Grafil Injection]

Fischer VCP90

width: 22.5 cm
length: 32.5 cm
roundness: 69.2%

I've added that to the table as it's a very well respected stick. We just need Blade, Aero and Prestige 600 dimensions now, although I think they are probably also close to 75% ovals.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Couple more rackets added to the table: Yamaha Secret 04 and SPiN Hipo. The former because it was used by Noah briefly, and seems to be about 95sqi despite being called 100; and the latter having the novel long-strings in fan arrangement, relatively rectangular shape and plucky Brit Jo Durie of course.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Head Classic Long added to the table; not that it's legendary, but a classic snow-shoe is useful for reference. 56% oval sets the long and thin record.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Just realised I haven't got the Volkl C10 Pro in the table, even though that's clearly a legendary stick, and I suspect fairly oval. Anyone got the length and width of the hoop?

 

[Grafil Injection]

Just added my recently acquired Dunlop Volley 1 to the table at the top. It's not really a legendary racket, but it's one classic that stays in the mind thanks to Goolagong. Evonne can be seen pictured with this green and gold model at Wimbledon 1978.

Just a few mm bigger than the Maxply must make it about 70sqi. Having a tear-drop shaped head, rather than egg-shaped like most Standards, the widest point of the Volley's head is 21.75'' up from the handle, which is about 1'' higher than most 27'' rackets, meaning it should hit a big ball. Mine came in close to Evonne's specs at 388g (13.5oz), and I am even more in awe of her strokes now.

 

[Frankc]

Is that Volley made in Australia? The yoke looks different from some of her pics. Looking at Matthew's Game, Set and Glory, she is on the front cover with that neck kerchief and definitely a different yoke that is solid green in color and of a more solid design. Roche is on the back cover with the same frame with the same Volley design (but a Yellow yoke).
And as I have one in hand, Volley International Made in Australia.
On p 43. Bob Marks is playing the same Volley, yellow yoke.

Her feel was so, so special with that Maxply. God, could she move and glide about...
(Edmondson's choice , also as a giant killer.)

 

[Grafil Injection]

Here's Evonne using my version in 1978. There are at least 3 different yokes (ridged solid, waffle open and butterfly) and 5 different colours (black, blue, green, orange, & yellow) , all either the Volley 1 or 1 International models with silver frames. Plus there's the green framed version with yellow waffle yoke. I think Evonne probably used each one at some point. I've seen pictures of her playing with the solid black, the open green, the solid blue, the green butterfly and the open yellow, so just the solid orange one I haven't seen her play so far.

 

[Frankc]

Is your version marked as made in Australia?
I have seen some like the above that were made in USA...

 

[Grafil Injection]

Is your version marked as made in Australia?
I have seen some like the above that were made in USA...

Yes, my one is Made in USA as I expect Evonne's was too, although it seems various models were made in multiple countries. The green and gold on my version obviously invokes the Australian colours, so it would not surprise me if there were MIAus version of it too.

It's highly likely she used different versions depending on the tournament, as to whichever was being marketed by Dunlop locally at that time. You can see her at Wimbledon with the dark green yoke version mostly (silver frame), and that could be MIEngland or MIAus.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Arthur Ashe Comp / Cup / Expert series of rackets added to the table at the top. With a 71% ratio, it is quite oval (less round) as one can easily see in the flesh. Being about 1cm longer in the hoop than most Standards, but a touch thinner, I estimate a 71sqi head-size. The hoop also has very little skew; it is very evenly oval shaped.

'Centre' location has also been added to the table for the distance of the widest point of the head from the butt. Virtually all normal length rackets, from Standards to Oversize, have their 'centres' in a 1.5'' range (20.25'' - 21.75'') up the racket, which is about 3 string-cells different, or just half a ball's width.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Chart at the top updated and simplified, as follows:

- Implied headsize added, using the Pi/4 oval formula. This will never be precisely accurate as rackets are not regular oval shapes. However, it should be quite accurate for the more round models like Princes, but gives quite inaccurate answers for rectangular and square rackets like old Yonexes and Rossignols, where the listed figures are clearly more accurate when you compare to other rackets.
- Prince 110s separated into classic beam and wide-beam. I noticed the older models were all a bit smaller than the wide-beam models.
- Exterior dimensions removed.

Would be great if someone with a Blade 98 could measure the interior length x width.

 

[muddlehead]

Just added my recently acquired Dunlop Volley 1 to the table at the top. It's not really a legendary racket, but it's one classic that stays in the mind thanks to Goolagong. Evonne can be seen pictured with this green and gold model at Wimbledon 1978.

Just a few mm bigger than the Maxply must make it about 70sqi. Having a tear-drop shaped head, rather than egg-shaped like most Standards, the widest point of the Volley's head is 21.75'' up from the handle, which is about 1'' higher than most 27'' rackets, meaning it should hit a big ball. Mine came in close to Evonne's specs at 388g (13.5oz), and I am even more in awe of her strokes now.

So jealous GI
Been looking to buy one for ages

 

[Frankc]

Put some natural in it - then that wand will be even closer to Evonne's specs...

 

[Don't Let It Bounce]

Just realised I haven't got the Volkl C10 Pro in the table, even though that's clearly a legendary stick, and I suspect fairly oval. Anyone got the length and width of the hoop?

Volkl C10 Pro: mains 331, crosses 238.5, area of ellipse 96.1, width/length 0.72

Here's a similar 2010 thread you can raid for specs: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...rent-racquets-head-sizes.328652/#post-4669577

 

[Don't Let It Bounce]

For the roundest, the most extreme I've measured was the Spalding Orbitech (309, 277, 0.896). If it has to be a classic, the Wilson T2000 (261.5, 223, 0.853).

For the most elongated, the snowshoe-shaped Head Graphite Director measured 341.5, 223, 0.653. For an elongated classic, the best I have on my list is The Fischer Pro Classic (332, 237.5, at 0.72), which is a smidgen more stretched than the C10 and doesn't compare to any of the showshoes from the 80s.

Good thread, OP. I find these sorts of specs interesting too.

 

[Grafil Injection]

For the roundest, the most extreme I've measured was the Spalding Orbitech (309, 277, 0.896). If it has to be a classic, the Wilson T2000 (261.5, 223, 0.853).

For the most elongated, the snowshoe-shaped Head Graphite Director measured 341.5, 223, 0.653. For an elongated classic, the best I have on my list is The Fischer Pro Classic (332, 237.5, at 0.72), which is a smidgen more stretched than the C10 and doesn't compare to any of the showshoes from the 80s.

Good thread, OP. I find these sorts of specs interesting too.

Thanks, I'll put the Orbitech, T2000 and C10 in.

 

[Grafil Injection]

So jealous GI
Been looking to buy one for ages

Go for a light one if possible. The tear-drop head shape puts a lot of weight at the top.