Legendary Racquet Hoop Dimensions

Grafil Injection · Jan 3, 2024

Possibly the most exciting thread of all time. Would be amazing if owners of the rackets with missing data (Blade, Aero) could reply and I'll complete the table. Key takeaways: all rackets are about 3/4 ovals, with the Yonex just about 6% more oval than Prince for example. The Rossignol F-200 is an outlier because of its inverted bridge. Most modern rackets are tear-drop shaped, the widest part of the hoop being around 1cm north of the centre.

		Square Inches	Beam (mm)	Width (cm)	Skewness*	Length (cm)	Roundness (W/L)
				(Interior)		(Interior)
Dunlop	MaxPly (Fort etc.)	68	16	20.2	-1	27.5	73.5%
Dunlop	MAX 200G / 300i	84	21.5	23	+2	30	76.7%
Rossignol	F-200	82	18	23	-1	27.5	83.6%
Head	Edge (Graphite etc.)	82	18	22.6	+2.5	30	75.3%
Wilson	Pro-Staff 85	85	17.5	22.7	+1	30.5	74.4%
Head	Prestige Pro (Classic, PT10, 600 etc)	89.5	19	22.6	+1	31.8	71.1%
Yonex	RQ-180	90	25	22.3	+1	31.5	70.6%
Fischer	Vacuum Pro 90	90		22.5		32.5	69.2%
Head	Classic Long (snow-shoe)	90	16	20		35.5	56.3%
Prince	Prince 90 (POG etc.)	93	19	24.2	+1	31.5	76.8%
Head	PT57 (630, Radical Tour etc)	95	20.5	23.9	+1	32.5	73.5%
Wilson	Six One 95	95	21.5	23.8	+1	32	74.4%
Dunlop	MW / Revelation 200G	95	20.5	23.9	+2	32.5	73.5%
Yamaha	Secret 04 (100)	95	25	23.5	+1	32.5	72.6%
SPiN	Hipo	95	21	23.8	+1	31.6	75.0%
Wilson	PS97/ RF97	97	21.5	24	+1	32.2	74.5%
Wilson	Blade 98	98	20.5
Babolat	Pure Aero	100	24
Prince	Prince 110 (POG etc.)	107	19	25.5	+1	33.3	77.0%

Average							73.4%

* - skewness = distance between widest point and north-south centre in cm. + indicates tear-drop shape, - indicates egg shape.

Kevo · Jan 3, 2024

It would be helpful to put the units on everything. Even with the unit on cross section I might need some extra help on figuring out what that one refers to.

jxs653 · Jan 3, 2024

Head Edge is the most elongated I think, and so isn't its "roundness" supposed to be lower than, say, Pro Staff 85?

Grafil Injection · Jan 3, 2024

Kevo said:
It would be helpful to put the units on everything. Even with the unit on cross section I might need some extra help on figuring out what that one refers to.

Good idea. I changed it to mm to be consistent with the beam, and labeled it. It's the width of the front of the beam.

Grafil Injection · Jan 3, 2024

jxs653 said:
Head Edge is the most elongated I think, and so isn't its "roundness" supposed to be lower than, say, Pro Staff 85?

Roundness is calculated simply as max width / max length, so it is doesn't matter how egg-shaped or teardrop the hoop is, just the ultimate slenderness (rectangularity). The Head Edges are fairly 'normal' amount of roundness, even though they are strongly tear-dropped.

jxs653 · Jan 3, 2024

Grafil Injection said:
Roundness is calculated simply as max width / max length, so it is doesn't matter how egg-shaped or teardrop the hoop is, just the ultimate slenderness. The Head Edges are fairly 'normal' amount of roundness, even though they are a bit tear-dropped.

I see. But still I think the "max width / max length" value should be the lowest with Edge because as I wrote it has the most elongated (or slender, in your word) head. I guess I'll check with my frames myself.

Grafil Injection · Jan 3, 2024

jxs653 said:
I see. But still I think the "max width / max length" value should be the lowest with Edge because as I wrote it has the most elongated (or slender, in your word) head. I guess I'll check with my frames myself.

If you put a PS85 on top of an Edge (Graphite, Comfort, Comp etc.) you'll see they are very similar roundness, just the PS85 is about 2mm bigger radius all round. The Head is just more tear-drop skewed, the PS85 more evenly oval. So the Head appears long because of the slenderness at the bottom, but that is offset by the slightly flattened top.

yonexRx32 · Jan 3, 2024

Grafil Injection said:
Possibly the most exciting thread of all time. Would be amazing if owners of the rackets with missing data (Prestige, Blade, Aero) could reply and I'll complete the table. Key takeaway: all rackets are about 3/4 ovals, with Yonex about 6% more oval than Prince at the extremes.

CMs (unless stated otherwise)
Square Inches
Beam (mm)
Width
Cross Section
(mm)
Length
Roundness
Interior
Interior

Dunlop MaxPly (Fort etc.)
68
18
20.2
11.5
27.5
73.5%
Dunlop MAX 200G / 300i
84
21.5

23
11.5
30
76.7%
Head Edge (Graphite etc.)
82
19

22.6
10
30
75.3%
Wilson Pro-Staff 85
85
17.5

22.7
12
30.5
74.4%
Head Prestige Pro
89.5
19
Yonex RQ-180
90
25

22.3
12.5
31.5
70.6%
Prince Prince 90 (POG etc.)
93
19

24.2
10.5
31.5
76.8%
Head PT57 (Radical Tour etc)
95
20.5
Wilson Six One 95
95
21.5

23.8
12
32
74.4%
Dunlop MW / Revelation 200G
95
20.5

23.9
10.5
32.5
73.5%
Wilson PS97/ RF97
97
21.5

24
13
32
75.0%
Wilson Blade 98
98
20.5
Babolat Pure Aero
100
24
Prince Prince 110 (POG etc.)
107
19

26
10
33.8
77.0%
Average
11
74.7%

Pretty sure I saw quite a few Head Edge racquets labeled 81.1 sq. In.

jxs653 · Jan 3, 2024

Grafil Injection said:
Roundness is calculated simply as max width / max length, ...

jxs653 said:
... still I think the "max width / max length" value should be the lowest with Edge because as I wrote it has the most elongated (or slender, in your word) head. I guess I'll check with my frames myself.

The numbers I got:

Max 200G: 23.0/30.3 .759
Edge: 22.1/30.1 .734
PS Mid: 23.3/30.8 .756 (measured without the pws)

So there are some discrepancies with the numbers provided in your OP.

jxs653 · Jan 3, 2024

Grafil Injection said:
If you put a PS85 on top of an Edge (Graphite, Comfort, Comp etc.) you'll see they are very similar roundness, just the PS85 is about 2mm bigger radius all round. The Head is just more tear-drop skewed, the PS85 more evenly oval. So the Head appears long because of the slenderness at the bottom, but that is offset by the slightly flattened top.

I only have a couple of Graphite Edges and I am not sure it is tear-drop skewed...

Grafil Injection · Jan 4, 2024

yonexRx32 said:
Pretty sure I saw quite a few Head Edge racquets labeled 81.1 sq. In.

Yeah, some early US models state that but the adverts state 82sqi so I think that is more appropriate rather than presenting pseudo accuracy.

Grafil Injection · Jan 4, 2024

jxs653 said:
I only have a couple of Graphite Edges and I am not sure it is tear-drop skewed...

Virtually all rackets are slightly tear dropped, meaning the widest point is above the north south centre. The Edges are notably so. Exceptions are the well known eggs from Kneissl, Puma etc, but a perfectly even oval is very rare. I will add a skewness measure.

Grafil Injection · Jan 4, 2024

jxs653 said:
The numbers I got:

Max 200G: 23.0/30.3 .759
Edge: 22.1/30.1 .734
PS Mid: 23.3/30.8 .756 (measured without the pws)

So there are some discrepancies with the numbers provided in your OP.

I used inside of the PWS since you can't hit with it, so yes would be about 23.3 with the PWS. Your Edges are thinner than my 5 different versions, which are all in the 22.3mm to 22.7mm width range. What version are your Graphites? The 200Gs are very close.

jxs653 · Jan 4, 2024

Grafil Injection said:
I used inside of the PWS since you can't hit with it, so yes would be about 23.3 with the PWS. Your Edges are thinner than my 5 different versions, which are all in the 22.3mm to 22.7mm width range. What version are your Graphites? The 200Gs are very close.

Oh it's Graphite Edge,, the black one with individual grommets, gold&red stripes.

Grafil Injection · Jan 4, 2024

jxs653 said:
Oh it's Graphite Edge,, the black one with individual grommets, gold&red stripes.

I have noticed about +/- 2mm is present on sticks I have multiple versions of. I'm adding a skewness measure now, and the Edge comes out near the most tear-dropped with the maximum width being 2.5cm above the north-south centre. Would be good to get your measure of that as I think that the early Edges may have been slightly different to my mid-era versions.

retrowagen · Jan 4, 2024

Grafil Injection said:
Possibly the most exciting thread of all time. Would be amazing if owners of the rackets with missing data (Prestige, Blade, Aero) could reply and I'll complete the table. Key takeaway: all rackets are about 3/4 ovals, with Yonex about 6% more oval than Prince at the extremes.

CMs (unless stated otherwise)
Square Inches
Beam (mm)
Width
Skewness*
Length
Roundness
Interior
Interior

Dunlop MaxPly (Fort etc.)
68
16
20.2
-1
27.5
73.5%
Dunlop MAX 200G / 300i
84
21.5

23
+2
30
76.7%
Head Edge (Graphite etc.)
82
18

22.6
+2.5
30
75.3%
Wilson Pro-Staff 85
85
17.5

22.7
+1
30.5
74.4%
Head Prestige Pro
89.5
19
Yonex RQ-180
90
25

22.3
+1
31.5
70.6%
Prince Prince 90 (POG etc.)
93
19

24.2
+1
31.5
76.8%
Head PT57 (Radical Tour etc)
95
20.5
Wilson Six One 95
95
21.5

23.8
+1
32
74.4%
Dunlop MW / Revelation 200G
95
20.5

23.9
+2
32.5
73.5%
Wilson PS97/ RF97
97
21.5

24

32
75.0%
Wilson Blade 98
98
20.5
Babolat Pure Aero
100
24
Prince Prince 110 (POG etc.)
107
19

26
+1
33.8
77.0%
Average

74.7%

* - skewness = distance between widest point and north-south centre in cm. + indicates tear-drop shape, - indicates egg shape.

HOOP! There it is!

(sorry, everyone; couldn’t resist)

Kevo · Jan 4, 2024

My Rossignol F230:

Hoop: 85 sq. in. (this is the published number I have seen, but it doesn't quite match up with the +25% in published literature I've seen as well, so it could be as low as 81.25)
height 27.8mm
width 23.4mm

Beam:
width 19mm
cross section 13mm

When I looked at skewness just based on the middle distance of the hoop north south I could not detect any. Given how the throat bridge is inverted I suppose you could say the center extends a little lower than the middle of the throat and introduce a bit of skew that way, but it's a bit of an academic question and I'm not sure which way to even argue it. I did verify that the mains at the throat are actually the same length due to the throat bridge and I think that is pretty neat.

jxs653 · Jan 4, 2024

Grafil Injection said:
I have noticed about +/- 2mm is present on sticks I have multiple versions of. I'm adding a skewness measure now, and the Edge comes out near the most tear-dropped with the maximum width being 2.5cm above the north-south centre. Would be good to get your measure of that as I think that the early Edges may have been slightly different to my mid-era versions.

Yes it gets slightly wider (approx. 1mm) toward the north from the center and seems widest around 1cm above the center. But the imbalance is very minute and I'd hardly call it tear-drop shape.

Grafil Injection · Jan 5, 2024

jxs653 said:
Yes it gets slightly wider (approx. 1mm) toward the north from the center and seems widest around 1cm above the center. But the imbalance is very minute and I'd hardly call it tear-drop shape.

Yeah, I think our eyes get used to the teardrop shape, because it's the natural form tapering down to the handle, but we spot egg-shapes rapidly because they are rarer and unnatural. For example, the MAX 200G is just as tear-dropped as the Phantom IMF is egg-shaped:

Grafil Injection · Jan 5, 2024

Kevo said:
My Rossignol F230:

Hoop: 85 sq. in. (this is the published number I have seen, but it doesn't quite match up with the +25% in published literature I've seen as well, so it could be as low as 81.25)
height 27.8mm
width 23.4mm

Beam:
width 19mm
cross section 13mm

When I looked at skewness just based on the middle distance of the hoop north south I could not detect any. Given how the throat bridge is inverted I suppose you could say the center extends a little lower than the middle of the throat and introduce a bit of skew that way, but it's a bit of an academic question and I'm not sure which way to even argue it. I did verify that the mains at the throat are actually the same length due to the throat bridge and I think that is pretty neat.

85sqi is 125% of 68sqi, which is the Standard definition Wilson and Dunlop also used.

So the F230 is comfortably the most round shape we've come across at 84%.

Yes, the Rossis harmonised the mainstrings. Unfortunately, they did that by shortening the centres to be about the same length of a Standard sized racket. Whereas, the Prince Response for example harmonised them to be all the length of the centre mains.

I'll add my F200 specs to the table, as that's a bit more well known.

Kevo · Jan 5, 2024

Interesting. I thought standard was 65sq. in. Math works out nicely if it's 68 instead.

I also don't mind the shorter length of the mains. I love the feel of wood racquets with the small head. The problem for me is I like to make attempts at excessive spin and the width across the face is not so good for that. With the thin beam and reasonable width the Rossi does quite nicely.

Kevo · Jan 5, 2024

Grafil Injection said:
Yeah, I think our eyes get used to the teardrop shape, because it's the natural form tapering down to the handle, but we spot egg-shapes rapidly because they are rarer and unnatural. For example, the MAX 200G is just as tear-dropped as the Phantom IMF is egg-shaped:

My previous long term frames, the PC95/PSL, were clearly egg shaped with the wide part being near the throat. I was well aware of it from the first time I play tested a PSL, and it was definitely more obvious being skinny up top as most frames go the other way.

Grafil Injection · Jan 21, 2024

F200 details added to the table, and it has the same very square\round dimensions like the f230. Makes me wonder if there was ever a perfectly round racket hoop, or even one that was wider than it was tall? Ergonom excluded.

teachingprotx · Jan 22, 2024

Grafil Injection said:
Yeah, I think our eyes get used to the teardrop shape, because it's the natural form tapering down to the handle, but we spot egg-shapes rapidly because they are rarer and unnatural. For example, the MAX 200G is just as tear-dropped as the Phantom IMF is egg-shaped:

Whoa great call

Grafil Injection · Feb 16, 2024

Not a legend, but the Fin Genius must be one of the most oval designs. At 34cm x 23cm it's 67.5% oval and is also evenly oval with just 0.5cm skew.

kevin qmto · Feb 16, 2024

Grafil Injection said:
Not a legend, but the Fin Genius must be one of the most oval designs. At 34cm x 23cm it's 67.5% oval and is also evenly oval with just 0.5cm skew.

I like the ‘not pws’ just above 3 and 9.

Grafil Injection · Feb 16, 2024

kevin qmto said:
I like the ‘not pws’ just above 3 and 9.

Yes, deftly avoiding the patent I assume, with 4 bulges at slightly strange positions. Probably not just marketing, since the balance is 31cm (10pt HL) strung, so some extra weight at the top may be necessary.

PistolPete23 · Feb 16, 2024

Fischer Vacuum Pro 90 had a pretty elongated hoop. I’ll measure mine tomorrow.

PistolPete23 · Feb 17, 2024

Fischer VCP90

width: 22.5 cm
length: 32.5 cm
roundness: 69.2%

Grafil Injection · Feb 18, 2024

PistolPete23 said:
Fischer VCP90

width: 22.5 cm
length: 32.5 cm
roundness: 69.2%

I've added that to the table as it's a very well respected stick. We just need Blade, Aero and Prestige 600 dimensions now, although I think they are probably also close to 75% ovals.

Grafil Injection · May 26, 2024

Couple more rackets added to the table: Yamaha Secret 04 and SPiN Hipo. The former because it was used by Noah briefly, and seems to be about 95sqi despite being called 100; and the latter having the novel long-strings in fan arrangement, relatively rectangular shape and plucky Brit Jo Durie of course.

Grafil Injection · Dec 5, 2024

Head Classic Long added to the table; not that it's legendary, but a classic snow-shoe is useful for reference. 56% oval sets the long and thin record.

CMs (unless stated otherwise)		Square Inches	Beam (mm)	Width	Cross Section (mm)	Length	Roundness
				Interior		Interior
Dunlop	MaxPly (Fort etc.)	68	18	20.2	11.5	27.5	73.5%
Dunlop	MAX 200G / 300i	84	21.5	23	11.5	30	76.7%
Head	Edge (Graphite etc.)	82	19	22.6	10	30	75.3%
Wilson	Pro-Staff 85	85	17.5	22.7	12	30.5	74.4%
Head	Prestige Pro	89.5	19
Yonex	RQ-180	90	25	22.3	12.5	31.5	70.6%
Prince	Prince 90 (POG etc.)	93	19	24.2	10.5	31.5	76.8%
Head	PT57 (Radical Tour etc)	95	20.5
Wilson	Six One 95	95	21.5	23.8	12	32	74.4%
Dunlop	MW / Revelation 200G	95	20.5	23.9	10.5	32.5	73.5%
Wilson	PS97/ RF97	97	21.5	24	13	32	75.0%
Wilson	Blade 98	98	20.5
Babolat	Pure Aero	100	24
Prince	Prince 110 (POG etc.)	107	19	26	10	33.8	77.0%

Average					11		74.7%

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