Let’s talk about the wall. Myths and Misconceptions

travlerajm

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
The wall is one of the most productive tools for an adult rec player to improve his/her playing level, but very few take advantage of it.

Pros:
1. Rallying against a wall creates a self-reinforcing feedback loop for both targeting accuracy and depth control. The better you are at hitting the target that results in a bounce location good enough to extend the rally, the more reps per unit time you get. In this way it’s like practicing juggling. You can’t not improve by hitting against a wall, just like you can’t not get better at juggling by practicing juggling.

2. The wall is patient. It won’t get annoyed when you miss. It also won’t get bothered if you want to experiment with different racquet weightings every few minutes. In this way, you can improve rapidly within a single session simply by varying a racquet weighting parameter until it feels optimized.

3. The wall lets you practice all types of shots. Groundstrokes, serves, volleys, overheads. You can get really good at overheads or reaction volleys by practicing them on the wall.

4. You get twice the reps per unit time, because the ball comes back at you twice as fast. This also makes it feel like you have extra time to prep for your shots when you play on an actual court.

Limitations:
1. The wall has a boring personality. While it does give you useful constructive feedback, it does so in a dry and matter of fact way. And it doesn’t give praise when you hit a nice one. It just sends it right back.

2. You don’t get the satisfying feeling of hitting a clean winner, because the wall is a defensive wizard.

3. The wall doesn’t mix up spins. It likes to give you a slight bit of topspin on every shot created by the interaction with the ball and the playing surface.

4. It can be hard to fully simulate movement patterns needed, especially for singles. So it’s best to mix in real tennis with your wall workouts for maximum benefit.
 
Wall no good for lobs unless you want run outside to fetch the ball every time. Some walls are double-sided, so a lob might land on someone's head.
 
sureshs said:
How do you practice serves against a wall without getting hurt on the rebound or chasing balls all over the place?
Click to expand...
Good question. I practice serves by standing in the corner of the racquetball court and aiming diagonally at the far corner just inside the sidewall. I sometimes tape a target on the wall centered about 6 feet high, or higher if im trying to use more topspin.

If I hit the target, the ball will rebound right back to me after hitting the back wall behind me, so I can practice a full bucket worth of serves with the same ball, without having to chase it or take more than a single step between serves.

I don’t recommend practicing the serve straight on against the wall, because it comes back too fast to collect it on the first rebound.
 
Copying from a post I made a while back:

"Hitting against a wall takes away preparation time and removes the feedback of seeing where your shot would land in a real court.

When a beginner hits against a wall, they realize that sustaining the rally requires them to reduce or eliminate proper preparation, weight transfer, follow-through, etc. because they don't have the time to take a proper full swing and recover for the next ball. Also the relationship between net clearance, spin, and depth is totally lost. The result is the development of bunt/chip style shots to a specific height because those are good for sustaining wall rallies. Wall hitting will reinforce bad habits.

If you're a higher level player with proper strokes, you know all of the above and can appreciate wall hitting despite these limitations. You generally know where your ball would land after hitting it leave your racquet, so you don't need the feedback on depth. You have correct groundstroke prep and follow-though ingrained, so you do the extra work with your feet to make sure you have space/time for the incoming ball."

So better players will talk about how great the wall is... but it's only great if you already know what you are doing.
 
travlerajm said:
The wall is one of the most productive tools for an adult rec player to improve his/her playing level, but very few take advantage of it.

Pros:
1. Rallying against a wall creates a self-reinforcing feedback loop for both targeting accuracy and depth control. The better you are at hitting the target that results in a bounce location good enough to extend the rally, the more reps per unit time you get. In this way it’s like practicing juggling. You can’t not improve by hitting against a wall, just like you can’t not get better at juggling by practicing juggling.

2. The wall is patient. It won’t get annoyed when you miss. It also won’t get bothered if you want to experiment with different racquet weightings every few minutes. In this way, you can improve rapidly within a single session simply by varying a racquet weighting parameter until it feels optimized.

3. The wall lets you practice all types of shots. Groundstrokes, serves, volleys, overheads. You can get really good at overheads or reaction volleys by practicing them on the wall.

4. You get twice the reps per unit time, because the ball comes back at you twice as fast. This also makes it feel like you have extra time to prep for your shots when you play on an actual court.

Limitations:
1. The wall has a boring personality. While it does give you useful constructive feedback, it does so in a dry and matter of fact way. And it doesn’t give praise when you hit a nice one. It just sends it right back.

2. You don’t get the satisfying feeling of hitting a clean winner, because the wall is a defensive wizard.

3. The wall doesn’t mix up spins. It likes to give you a slight bit of topspin on every shot created by the interaction with the ball and the playing surface.

4. It can be hard to fully simulate movement patterns needed, especially for singles. So it’s best to mix in real tennis with your wall workouts for maximum benefit.
Click to expand...
Chuck Norris played the wall and won.
 
travlerajm said:
1. Rallying against a wall creates a self-reinforcing feedback loop for both targeting accuracy and depth control. The better you are at hitting the target that results in a bounce location good enough to extend the rally, the more reps per unit time you get. In this way it’s like practicing juggling. You can’t not improve by hitting against a wall, just like you can’t not get better at juggling by practicing juggling.
Click to expand...
So yea my issue is that the feedback loop you are describing is more likely to reinforce bad habits than with a ball machine or hitting partner.

It's not that the wall is a bad tool... but you do have to be careful with what you are reinforcing.
 
RyanRF said:
So yea my issue is that the feedback loop you are describing is more likely to reinforce bad habits than with a ball machine or hitting partner.

It's not that the wall is a bad tool... but you do have to be careful with what you are reinforcing.
Click to expand...
That’s the usual counter argument. But if you are an adult rec player, are you really going to get better faster another way?

Why is MEP the fastest improving adult rec player on the forum when his approach was going 100% all-in on match play, another way to create a self-reinforcing feedback loop that “reinforces bad technique.”?
 
Last edited:
The wall rewards patient, methodical, consistent hitting. I'd say it's the very rare player that can keep the ball going for a long stretch of time while staying in "perfect" control. If you can do it, you know your shot is rock solid.

In this way, it's better than a machine. Most people I see using a machine just bash the ball as hard as they can and are quite pleased with themselves when they hit "spectacular" winners. I've always told people I see using a machine that one of the things you should be doing with a machine is

  • going for 100% of your balls in play
  • Then going for 100% in play, hitting your targets each time
  • Experiment with different strokes. Here you aren't going for 100% in. But you also aren't just "ball bashing"

It does you no good to ball bash off of a machine. Unless you are just doing it for exercise.
 
tennis3 said:
The wall rewards patient, methodical, consistent hitting. I'd say it's the very rare player that can keep the ball going for a long stretch of time while staying in "perfect" control. If you can do it, you know your shot is rock solid.

In this way, it's better than a machine. Most people I see using a machine just bash the ball as hard as they can and are quite pleased with themselves when they hit "spectacular" winners. I've always told people I see using a machine that one of the things you should be doing with a machine is

Click to expand...

This!
 
tennis3 said:
The wall rewards patient, methodical, consistent hitting. I'd say it's the very rare player that can keep the ball going for a long stretch of time while staying in "perfect" control. If you can do it, you know your shot is rock solid.

In this way, it's better than a machine. Most people I see using a machine just bash the ball as hard as they can and are quite pleased with themselves when they hit "spectacular" winners. I've always told people I see using a machine that one of the things you should be doing with a machine is

  • going for 100% of your balls in play
  • Then going for 100% in play, hitting your targets each time
  • Experiment with different strokes. Here you aren't going for 100% in. But you also aren't just "ball bashing"

It does you no good to ball bash off of a machine. Unless you are just doing it for exercise.
Click to expand...
I’ve rented a machine when traveling a few times, but I get bored really fast, and sometimes quit my machine session if I can grab a lower level player to hit with.

My wall sessions I’m less likely to cut short, because if I figure out something new that feels good, it becomes addictive to hit with my newfound skill.
 
travlerajm said:
The wall is one of the most productive tools for an adult rec player to improve his/her playing level, but very few take advantage of it.

Pros:
1. Rallying against a wall creates a self-reinforcing feedback loop for both targeting accuracy and depth control. The better you are at hitting the target that results in a bounce location good enough to extend the rally, the more reps per unit time you get. In this way it’s like practicing juggling. You can’t not improve by hitting against a wall, just like you can’t not get better at juggling by practicing juggling.

2. The wall is patient. It won’t get annoyed when you miss. It also won’t get bothered if you want to experiment with different racquet weightings every few minutes. In this way, you can improve rapidly within a single session simply by varying a racquet weighting parameter until it feels optimized.

3. The wall lets you practice all types of shots. Groundstrokes, serves, volleys, overheads. You can get really good at overheads or reaction volleys by practicing them on the wall.

4. You get twice the reps per unit time, because the ball comes back at you twice as fast. This also makes it feel like you have extra time to prep for your shots when you play on an actual court.

Limitations:
1. The wall has a boring personality. While it does give you useful constructive feedback, it does so in a dry and matter of fact way. And it doesn’t give praise when you hit a nice one. It just sends it right back.

2. You don’t get the satisfying feeling of hitting a clean winner, because the wall is a defensive wizard.

3. The wall doesn’t mix up spins. It likes to give you a slight bit of topspin on every shot created by the interaction with the ball and the playing surface.

4. It can be hard to fully simulate movement patterns needed, especially for singles. So it’s best to mix in real tennis with your wall workouts for maximum benefit.
Click to expand...
It's not better not worse than a ball machine or a random hitting partner. Gotta know what you need, how to get it from them and stay on track.
 
tennis3 said:
It does you no good to ball bash off of a machine. Unless you are just doing it for exercise.
Click to expand...
or for fun.

The order of useful hitting methods to learn new strokes -
1 self feed
2 coach /partner feed
3 wall
4 machine
5 co-operative high level player/coach
6 same level player
7 lower level player
8 high level player
9 match play with same level player
10 match play with lower/higher level player
 
"The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall." - Mitch Hedberg

When I was a kid and started taking tennis serious, the wall was the best learning tool. It really helped me control and stay consistent on my groundstrokes.
 
mixtape said:
"The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall." - Mitch Hedberg
Click to expand...
You can quite easily make the wall hit balls out. It’s like smacking hard at the net player, who isn’t experienced in judging balls that go too high too fast, and plays all of them.

:-D
 
jhick said:
The big question is "Does your friend wish you were here?" and if so is he "Comfortably Numb?"
Click to expand...
No, but he hits the ball very hard and last week he actually damaged part of the wall. It was just another brick in the wall and the rest of it is still usable.
 
sureshs said:
How do you practice serves against a wall without getting hurt on the rebound or chasing balls all over the place?
Click to expand...
The wall I use is in a caged off area which limits chasing.
To practice serves, I sometimes tape a dog poop bag just above the net line.
Sometimes after the serve rebounds, I hit it back as a half-volley, then I move closer and
practice volleys, alternating forehand and backhand
In general if there is an open court, it is easier to practice serves and lobs there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nwv
One of my favorite rhythm activities is to practice overheads by hitting dunk overheads downward into the floor in front of the wall, so that the ball bounces upward off the wall to become a lob that enables me to hit the next overhead. This takes a little practice and footwork discipline to keep it going. It’s a little more advanced than a groundstroke rally, because it requires good control in all 4 dimensions. Even more similar to the tennis equivalent of juggling. Not sure if I’ve ever got past 5 or 6 overheads in a row on a continuous rally. But perhaps I should make it a goal to get better at it.
 
Last edited:
jhick said:
The big question is "Does your friend wish you were here?" and if so is he "Comfortably Numb?"
Click to expand...

Frankly it was just echoes of breathe as he spent time learning to fly for the great gig in the sky with high hopes. Or it could have been just another brick in the wall.
 
The wall promotes self awareness and self correction…assuming you have some foundation.

The wall demands consistency; though if you’re in bad form it’s consistently bad.

The wall also promotes positioning. You can’t hit against the ball if you think you can stand in just in place.

The wall does not give you any feedback into your delivery - you can’t gauge your depth, spin, net clearance, etc.

The wall doesn’t give you the same variables as a live ball - it doesn’t feed back top spin, under spin, moon ball, etc.

The wall only works for people who have some fundamentals of tennis technique. It’s absolutely useless if you don’t know what a contact point is, what stances are, and basic stroke technique.
 
badmice2 said:
The wall promotes self awareness and self correction…assuming you have some foundation.

The wall demands consistency; though if you’re in bad form it’s consistently bad.

The wall also promotes positioning. You can’t hit against the ball if you think you can stand in just in place.

The wall does not give you any feedback into your delivery - you can’t gauge your depth, spin, net clearance, etc.

The wall doesn’t give you the same variables as a live ball - it doesn’t feed back top spin, under spin, moon ball, etc.

The wall only works for people who have some fundamentals of tennis technique. It’s absolutely useless if you don’t know what a contact point is, what stances are, and basic stroke technique.
Click to expand...
I’m going to have to pull a red card on this notion that the wall is “absolutely useless” for beginners without fundamentals.

I’m going to return to the juggling analogy.

99.9% of people cannot juggle more than 2 balls in row. That’s because they are beginners with no idea where the catch point is, what the proper stance for balance is, or basic toss technique.

But if you attempt to practice juggling for 20 minutes a day, every day, within a few days, you can get to 3-4 balls in row. Within a few more days, you can get to 5-6. And then a few more days, maybe you can get to 10. And you stick with it for another week or two after that, you can get to the point that you can keep the juggle going until you get tired.

The wall is the same way. The people who cannot keep a wall rally going are the same ones who cannot win games in match play.

But those same beginners, if they can practice enough on the wall to reach the point of being able to keep a wall rally going, they will clean up up in 3.5 singles league. Because at that point they can use whatever ugly stroke technique they have to put the ball where there want it.
 
travlerajm said:
I’m going to have to pull a red card on this notion that the wall is “absolutely useless” for beginners without fundamentals.

I’m going to return to the juggling analogy.

99.9% of people cannot juggle more than 2 balls in row. That’s because they are beginners with no idea where the catch point is, what the proper stance for balance is, or basic toss technique.

But if you attempt to practice juggling for 20 minutes a day, every day, within a few days, you can get to 3-4 balls in row. Within a few more days, you can get to 5-6. And then a few more days, maybe you can get to 10. And you stick with it for another week or two after that, you can get to the point that you can keep the juggle going until you get tired.

The wall is the same way. The people who cannot keep a wall rally going are the same ones who cannot win games in match play.

But those same beginners, if they can practice enough on the wall to reach the point of being able to keep a wall rally going, they will clean up up in 3.5 singles league. Because at that point they can use whatever ugly stroke technique they have to put the ball where there want it.
Click to expand...
to your point it’s useless if you’re trying to learn to juggle with bowling pins instead of tennis balls. And that’s precisely the point I’m making…it’s one thing to learn to juggle, another to learn when you have no idea how to learn properly. You can continue down the path of learning, but is it focus or pointed learning towards the proper goal?

Sure you can play league with ugly strokes, and maybe win some matches. But in order to improve spins and particular shots, you’re required pointed technique. Therefore practicing ugly strokes against a wall is simply making your ugly consistent. Ans that’s what I’m implying…if consistent ugly is what you want…the wall helps maintaining how you want to repeat; but it doesn’t provide objective feedback to what you’re doing wrong.

The wall doesn’t tell give you any feedback about how well you control your depth, or if you’re able to apply spin, or proper net clearance, or racket head speed, etc etc. the only feedback you get is you hit the ball to the wall, the ball bounces back. Proper technique helps get your racket to the ball, which the ball goes to the wall; but it’s not required.
 
Last edited:
badmice2 said:
to your point it’s useless if you’re trying to learn to juggle with bowling pins instead of tennis balls. And that’s precisely the point I’m making…it’s one thing to learn to juggle, another to learn when you have no idea how to learn properly. You can continue down the path of learning, but is it focus or pointed learning towards the proper goal?

Sure you can play league with ugly strokes, and maybe win some matches. But in order to improve spins and particular shots, you’re required pointed technique. Therefore practicing ugly strokes against a wall is simply making your ugly consistent. Ans that’s what I’m implying…if consistent ugly is what you want…the wall helps maintaining how you want to repeat; but it doesn’t prove objective feedback to what you’re doing wrong.

The wall doesn’t tell give you any feedback about how well you control your depth, or if you’re able to apply spin, or proper net clearance, or racket head speed, etc etc. the only feedback you get is you hit the ball to the wall, the ball bounces back. Proper technique helps get your racket to the ball, which the ball goes to the wall; but it’s not required.
Click to expand...
To be clear, I’m not making any claims that the wall can beautify your ugly. Rather, I’m saying that it can your ugly more effective at winning in tennis by hard-wiring your ugly strokes until they become infallible.
 
travlerajm said:
To be clear, I’m not making any claims that the wall can beautify your ugly. Rather, I’m saying that it can your ugly more effective at winning in tennis by hard-wiring your ugly strokes until they become infallible.
Click to expand...
Im not disagreeing your points; but the poster is seeking improvement. The wall promotes consistency; I can’t agree the wall promotes improvement.
 
AnyPUG said:
or for fun.

The order of useful hitting methods to learn new strokes -
1 self feed
2 coach /partner feed
3 wall
4 machine
5 co-operative high level player/coach
6 same level player
7 lower level player
8 high level player
9 match play with same level player
10 match play with lower/higher level player
Click to expand...
I would reverse the ranking order of these (self feed being the least useful, playing against higher level player being the most useful for improving).
 
onehandbh said:
No, but he hits the ball very hard and last week he actually damaged part of the wall. It was just another brick in the wall and the rest of it is still usable.
Click to expand...
What is also troublesome are the fiberglass topped walls where after a season of hitting, the top surface starts to separate from the inner core and you get the dreaded "dead" zone. That said, at least it's there.
 
badmice2 said:
to your point it’s useless if you’re trying to learn to juggle with bowling pins instead of tennis balls. And that’s precisely the point I’m making…it’s one thing to learn to juggle, another to learn when you have no idea how to learn properly. You can continue down the path of learning, but is it focus or pointed learning towards the proper goal?
Click to expand...
Mmmmm...if wall hitting was done solely in a vacuum..maayyybeee??!?? But, that said, it's not. One does usually see how pros play and other things. What I can say is that I'm probably a poster child for learning and developing my tennis play entirely from wall hitting (entirely meaning no lessons/direct instruction). I learned by forcing my target point smaller and smaller and moving to lower and lower walls. I have indeed had to go and retrieve many balls over the years. I've also hit millions if not tens of millions of balls against the wall. Sure, some of the limitations you mention aren't easy to overcome. What I've found for me to be the most helpful to overcome those limitations is the sense of timing needed to hit a ball well. I've known pretty well what I need to do to adjust to regain that timing when hitting with someone from top junior level to beginner.
 
Old balls work better for a wall session. They come back at a pace closer to what you'd get from an opponent. As a kid I hit against a wall in a park a lot. There was no concrete slab on the ground, just semi compacted gravel, dirt grass which resulted in very uneven bounces. That helped sharpen my reflexes and foot work especially half volleys which have remained one of my better shots 40 years on.
 
With wall, how do you guys know for certainty that your shots are good?

To me, wall hitting is just exercise, requiring extrapolation re tennis.
 
user92626 said:
With wall, how do you guys know for certainty that your shots are good?

To me, wall hitting is just exercise, requiring extrapolation re tennis.
Click to expand...
If I can keep a wall rally going without having to move my feet, it means both my depth control and targeting control are good.

My home wall is smooth glassy racquetball surface, where the fast bounce speed simulates the extra pace from a real rally.
 
user92626 said:
With wall, how do you guys know for certainty that your shots are good?

To me, wall hitting is just exercise, requiring extrapolation re tennis.
Click to expand...
You don't, really, but that's where the learned timing comes into play. Usually, when I start hitting with someone, after hitting on a wall, I start long, usually close to the baseline within six inches. Within ten or twenty rally shots I've adjusted and I'm hitting consistently in the court.
 
user92626 said:
With wall, how do you guys know for certainty that your shots are good?

To me, wall hitting is just exercise, requiring extrapolation re tennis.
Click to expand...
I forgot to add too that I suppose it depends on how one uses the wall. So for example, I often pick out 1x1 ft square and every ball I hit I try to hit into that area. It doesn't matter the oncoming angle etc, and it may mean a short "rally", but that's kind of the point. Namely, you have to vary spin, power, etc. in order to maintain a rally. Balls don't always come back in a perfect idealized way. There's minor imperfections, non flush seams, debris on the court, your own spin may grab differently and outgoing angles change. Once you get on court, so to speak, the only other variable to take into account is depth. That's what I mean where developed timing kicks in....and you adjust. I hope that makes sense.
 
user92626 said:
With wall, how do you guys know for certainty that your shots are good?

To me, wall hitting is just exercise, requiring extrapolation re tennis.
Click to expand...
It requires extrapolation that is not at all difficult. If you can't know what your shot is going to do after you hit it then you need to practice the mental faculties you're using there more anyways. When I play real sets I will consistently know I hit a ball long or into the net or perfectly where I wanted to before I see it happen. Sometimes I still surprise myself but the vast majority of times no.
 
optic yellow said:
It requires extrapolation that is not at all difficult. If you can't know what your shot is going to do after you hit it then you need to practice the mental faculties you're using there more anyways. When I play real sets I will consistently know I hit a ball long or into the net or perfectly where I wanted to before I see it happen. Sometimes I still surprise myself but the vast majority of times no.
Click to expand...
This. As soon as the ball leaves my racquet, I already know whether it will be in or out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
Overheads and volleys at the WALL.
Replies
7
Views
1K
BeachTennis
BeachTennis
GotGame?
  • Poll Poll
Wall vs. Ball Machine
Replies
28
Views
3K
Mahboob Khan
Mahboob Khan
S
Up against the wall!!!!
Replies
6
Views
1K
princess bossass
princess bossass
A
Can hitting against the Wall send you backward?
Replies
16
Views
3K
Deleted member 23235
D
StringSnapper
I beat the wall.
Replies
36
Views
3K
StringSnapper
StringSnapper
Back
Top