Let’s talk about the wall. Myths and Misconceptions

optic yellow said:
It requires extrapolation that is not at all difficult. If you can't know what your shot is going to do after you hit it then you need to practice the mental faculties you're using there more anyways. When I play real sets I will consistently know I hit a ball long or into the net or perfectly where I wanted to before I see it happen. Sometimes I still surprise myself but the vast majority of times no.
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For low level, simple extrapolation is all that's needed.

As you get higher, simple extrapolation and assumption won't do anymore. Advanced players need to hit with more precision, eg consistently closer to the line, consistent amount of rpm/topspin. This is why in ATP, rpm is a thing, consistent depth is a thing, precise positioning, placement is a thing.
 
user92626 said:
For low level, simple extrapolation is all that's needed.

As you get higher, simple extrapolation and assumption won't do anymore. Advanced players need to hit with more precision, eg consistently closer to the line, consistent amount of rpm/topspin. This is why in ATP, rpm is a thing, consistent depth is a thing, precise positioning, placement is a thing.
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Mixing in match play between wall sessions bridges the gap. The feeling of the successful shot in the match has the same feeling on the wall.
 
mtommer said:
You don't, really, but that's where the learned timing comes into play. Usually, when I start hitting with someone, after hitting on a wall, I start long, usually close to the baseline within six inches. Within ten or twenty rally shots I've adjusted and I'm hitting consistently in the court.
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Exactly.

It requires assumption, adjustments, going from the wall to the real court, but some of us rec players don't have time for that or very ocd / arrogant with our ways of doing things. This is why changes are tough for rec players.

Wall is a thing that rec players have access to when other venues aren't available.

I know that when I serve the ball a small gap above the net, it might still be out. So it's hard to practice serve with the wall.

For accuracy and real tennis stuff, I rather find an empty court over a wall.
 
travlerajm said:
Mixing in match play between wall sessions bridges the gap. The feeling of the successful shot in the match has the same feeling on the wall.
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Not for me, bro. I can aim for a side line or a corner and hit a shot that feels very good but it's still bad / out (by 6, 10 inches).

For a short ball that I need to whip fast and low to close the point, only the real court would let me know if my stroke is successful and great.
 
user92626 said:
Exactly.

It requires assumption, adjustments, going from the wall to the real court, but some of us rec players don't have time for that or very ocd / arrogant with our ways of doing things. This is why changes are tough for rec players.

Wall is a thing that rec players have access to when other venues aren't available.

I know that when I serve the ball a small gap above the net, it might still be out. So it's hard to practice serve with the wall.

For accuracy and real tennis stuff, I rather find an empty court over a wall.
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Sure, but two things. The first is that is doesn't necessarily take assumption. When I hit to a spot, I'm applying ball control. That same control applies when hitting to any spot. One can work on jump shot mechanics to a point on a wall that applies to any jump shot taken on court from any point that form allows you to maintain said form.

The second thing is, are you really pointing out an issue with wall hitting or rec players? I mean, if someone doesn't really have the time to put in, well okay, but that has nothing to do with a benefit or lack thereof with wall hitting. Look, many people out there would never mentally be able to hit on a wall for three or four hours at a time. For me, it's a destressing mechanism that also allows me to get better at something I like. But again, that has nothing to do with the wall being beneficial or not. It would be like me saying that because I hate lifting weights or working out inside in a typical gym because it bores the heck out of me (which it does), that somehow working out or lifting weights isn't beneficial or wouldn't benefit me. Of course it would....but I would still never buy a gym membership.
 
RyanRF said:
"Hitting against a wall takes away preparation time and removes the feedback of seeing where your shot would land in a real court.

When a beginner hits against a wall, they realize that sustaining the rally requires them to reduce or eliminate proper preparation, weight transfer, follow-through, etc. because they don't have the time to take a proper full swing and recover for the next ball. Also the relationship between net clearance, spin, and depth is totally lost. The result is the development of bunt/chip style shots to a specific height because those are good for sustaining wall rallies. Wall hitting will reinforce bad habits.
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There is a reason no advanced tennis players ever hit with a wall.
Wall has nothing to do with real tennis
 
mtommer said:
Sure, but two things. The first is that is doesn't necessarily take assumption. When I hit to a spot, I'm applying ball control. That same control applies when hitting to any spot. One can work on jump shot mechanics to a point on a wall that applies to any jump shot taken on court from any point that form allows you to maintain said form.

The second thing is, are you really pointing out an issue with wall hitting or rec players? I mean, if someone doesn't really have the time to put in, well okay, but that has nothing to do with a benefit or lack thereof with wall hitting. Look, many people out there would never mentally be able to hit on a wall for three or four hours at a time. For me, it's a destressing mechanism that also allows me to get better at something I like. But again, that has nothing to do with the wall being beneficial or not. It would be like me saying that because I hate lifting weights or working out inside in a typical gym because it bores the heck out of me (which it does), that somehow working out or lifting weights isn't beneficial or wouldn't benefit me. Of course it would....but I would still never buy a gym membership.
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ok have to ask, do you really hit against the wall for 3 or 4 hours at a time?
 
I’ve been spending ~1,5h at the wall several days a week every summer. I’ve been hitting serves a lot, from 39ft as well as from 60ft.

With groundstrokes, I had hard time many years ago going to courts after mostly wall practice. Both making shots and receiving shots felt like nothing I had been practicing on the wall.

After I got better on court, wall practice became much more efficient, as now I knew what was good and how it felt, and could adapt to the differences wall introduced.

With my decades of wall experience I can say:
- don’t learn to play tennis on the wall
- practice, experiment - yes, once you know what you are doing
- definitely don’t get stuck with rhythmic hitting from one spot - move your feet, hit with intension, but left/right is good
- focused series of 5-10-15 shots over endless juggling: good hitting at the wall requires twice as much intensity to setup, execute and recover as on-court hitting does, as ball comes back twice as soon
- use different “rules”, like 2 bounce hitting; feed into the wall - hit a good FH - catch; it’s not a tennis point, whatever you do, so alter your approach to get necessary workout.

I like my wall place in summer for people (we don’t have a lot of your typical public park courts, so it’s a place where crowd gathers), for any-time accessibility, for meditative nature. And air is good at that location too!
 
I’ve noticed that cities with extensive outdoor tennis infrastructure tend to have excellent wall setups alongside public courts.

Miami, Atlanta, Vegas, for example.
 
travlerajm said:
Good question. I practice serves by standing in the corner of the racquetball court and aiming diagonally at the far corner just inside the sidewall. I sometimes tape a target on the wall centered about 6 feet high, or higher if im trying to use more topspin.

If I hit the target, the ball will rebound right back to me after hitting the back wall behind me, so I can practice a full bucket worth of serves with the same ball, without having to chase it or take more than a single step between serves.

I don’t recommend practicing the serve straight on against the wall, because it comes back too fast to collect it on the first rebound.
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Congrats for initiating this. Serve and return, overhead and getting in place for the next smash, this is what I found fun and helpful when 'playing" against the wall. Idea: serve from the "baseline" directional to a dedicated area on the wall (flat, slice, kick) - without worrying too much if that ball would be in, just hit the area (example: right in the middle and 10 inches above the virtual net); this is not meant to get balls "in", but practice other serve components - this would qualify as practice (positioning, footwork, serve mechanics are still subject to improving) - Smash 10 times in a row also fun (smash target just enough distance before the wall in order to get it back for next)
 
travlerajm said:
One of my favorite rhythm activities is to practice overheads by hitting dunk overheads downward into the floor in front of the wall, so that the ball bounces upward off the wall to become a lob that enables me to hit the next overhead. This takes a little practice and footwork discipline to keep it going. It’s a little more advanced than a groundstroke rally, because it requires good control in all 4 dimensions. Even more similar to the tennis equivalent of juggling. Not sure if I’ve ever got past 5 or 6 overheads in a row on a continuous rally. But perhaps I should make it a goal to get better at it.
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Now I see you already described this very well
 
Wall bounces are weird. Buy a ball machine.

Most people don't like Slinger. It comes out with extreme top spin only. It's weird too.
 
jimmy8 said:
Wall bounces are weird. Buy a ball machine.

Most people don't like Slinger. It comes out with extreme top spin only. It's weird too.
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not everyone has access to open courts to wheel out a ball machine. also a lot of people don't have room to store it (cost can also be a deterrent to some people)
 
PKorda said:
not everyone has access to open courts to wheel out a ball machine. also a lot of people don't have room to store it (cost can also be a deterrent to some people)
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Buy it used like me. How do you play tennis if you can't find a court? Buy a hydrogen proton, it's the size of a small trash can and weighs like 20 lbs, no wheeling needed. I don't have money, but I have a tennis tutor ball machine, it's kind of big, but not that big, it's like 20" by 20" by 20".
 
jimmy8 said:
Buy it used like me. How do you play tennis if you can't find a court? Buy a hydrogen proton, it's the size of a small trash can and weighs like 20 lbs, no wheeling needed. I don't have money, but I have a tennis tutor ball machine, it's kind of big, but not that big, it's like 20" by 20" by 20".
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i live in a city, courts can be hard to come by which is one of reasons i end up using wall a good amount, but also not really socially acceptable to go out by yourself on a court with a ball machine while there's a line of people waiting to play.
 
When you hit with a person, ball comes toward you. When you hit against wall, ball drops to the ground. Someone said this on this message board many years ago and I think he was spot on thereby pointing out a major limitation of wall as a means of practice. And yes, slanted wall is a way to go.
 
jxs653 said:
When you hit with a person, ball comes toward you. When you hit against wall, ball drops to the ground. Someone said this on this message board many years ago and I think he was spot on thereby pointing out a major limitation of wall as a means of practice. And yes, slanted wall is a way to go.
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Not really. A high level wall is quite good at rebounding the ball back to you with the bounce at the exact depth you ask for.
 
travlerajm said:
Not really. A high level wall is quite good at rebounding the ball back to you with the bounce at the exact depth you ask for.
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That is negotiating a limitation. If you have experienced both ordinary wall and slanted wall, you'd say the difference night and day.
 
jxs653 said:
That is negotiating a limitation. If you have experienced both ordinary wall and slanted wall, you'd say the difference night and day.
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seems like this would depend on level, at higher levels i would think the flat ball coming back would be closer to an opponents return (granted there will be no spin) than a higher, softer ball
 
PKorda said:
seems like this would depend on level, at higher levels i would think the flat ball coming back would be closer to an opponents return (granted there will be no spin) than a higher, softer ball
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With moderate topspin shots, the wall bounce tends to reverse the spin, and then the bounce of the floor/ground adds a little bit of topspin, so the incoming ball has moderate topspin on it.
 
PKorda said:
i live in a city, courts can be hard to come by which is one of reasons i end up using wall a good amount, but also not really socially acceptable to go out by yourself on a court with a ball machine while there's a line of people waiting to play.
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I've never been on a court with a ball machine with people waiting. I think I've seen someone else with a ball machine on a court with people waiting maybe once or twice in my whole lifetime. I go at 830-9pm, most people don't start this late and most people end by this time so there's always courts. The lights stay on until 1030pm.

I don't know why a person with a ball machine who waits in line like everybody else is not entitled to take the court for about an hour or so.

I live in a city. Courts are sometimes hard to come by. I usually pick times where not that many people are going to be out. My partners are the ones who pick times that are very busy times. If your ball machine tries to pick a busy time, you can always override them.
 
jxs653 said:
When you hit with a person, ball comes toward you. When you hit against wall, ball drops to the ground.
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Often times, sure. It depends on how you're hitting. I've posted this vid many times and as you can see many of the balls are low. At the same time, go to about :40 and you can see I deliberately hit differently and the ball comes back higher. It's really all about what you want and that was only a couple of years into me picking up tennis. Point being, if a relative beginner can change things up at will, it still seems to me (as has also been my experience) that you get out of it what you put into it as with most things.
 
jimmy8 said:
I've never been on a court with a ball machine with people waiting. I think I've seen someone else with a ball machine on a court with people waiting maybe once or twice in my whole lifetime. I go at 830-9pm, most people don't start this late and most people end by this time so there's always courts. The lights stay on until 1030pm.

I don't know why a person with a ball machine who waits in line like everybody else is not entitled to take the court for about an hour or so.

I live in a city. Courts are sometimes hard to come by. I usually pick times where not that many people are going to be out. My partners are the ones who pick times that are very busy times. If your ball machine tries to pick a busy time, you can always override them.
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Same reason I don't serve by myself when people are waiting. Courts where I am are very limited supply, if everyone started using the courts for single use serving and a ball machine court wait times would be even more ridiculous than they are.
 
The teaching I used to spar with in Paraguay (an ex UTR 13) says that growing up, the wall was his best friend. He has the most technically perfect forehand of anyone I’ve played.
 
PKorda said:
Same reason I don't serve by myself when people are waiting. Courts where I am are very limited supply, if everyone started using the courts for single use serving and a ball machine court wait times would be even more ridiculous than they are.
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Where do you live? Do you own a car? If yes, do you limit your driving distance to like 5 miles or something? Are you only limited to playing tennis between a very limited set of hours where those hours coincide with the busiest times to play tennis? Well, I guess you shouldn't buy a ball machine. Maybe some other people will benefit from a ball machine.
 
dannyslicer said:
There is a reason no advanced tennis players ever hit with a wall.
Wall has nothing to do with real tennis
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I don't think that's correct.

There are plenty of former pros who have good things to say about wall practice.

It may not be for everyone, but it has worked for some.
 
My winter home, cept ours is covered,
8885045.0.jpg
 
Dragy said:
I’ve been spending ~1,5h at the wall several days a week every summer. I’ve been hitting serves a lot, from 39ft as well as from 60ft.

With groundstrokes, I had hard time many years ago going to courts after mostly wall practice. Both making shots and receiving shots felt like nothing I had been practicing on the wall.

After I got better on court, wall practice became much more efficient, as now I knew what was good and how it felt, and could adapt to the differences wall introduced.

With my decades of wall experience I can say:
- don’t learn to play tennis on the wall
- practice, experiment - yes, once you know what you are doing
- definitely don’t get stuck with rhythmic hitting from one spot - move your feet, hit with intension, but left/right is good
- focused series of 5-10-15 shots over endless juggling: good hitting at the wall requires twice as much intensity to setup, execute and recover as on-court hitting does, as ball comes back twice as soon
- use different “rules”, like 2 bounce hitting; feed into the wall - hit a good FH - catch; it’s not a tennis point, whatever you do, so alter your approach to get necessary workout.

I like my wall place in summer for people (we don’t have a lot of your typical public park courts, so it’s a place where crowd gathers), for any-time accessibility, for meditative nature. And air is good at that location too!
Click to expand...
See good FH makes sense to me, while 15 balls in a row doesn't.
 
To be creative at the wall, have a look at the danish tennis player Torben Ulrich captured by filmaker Jørgen Leth, film from 1970

 
Unfortunately I don’t have a regular hitting buddy right now who’s willing to meet during the winter in the evenings on wet courts. So the wall is my new best friend. I had a guy, but his wife made him move to a remote church community in the middle of a forest an hour away from nearest tennis court, where he has to chop wood and fend off bears to heat his house. She told him that he had to dedicate himself 100% to god. He says he’s more of a 50% guy.
 
travlerajm said:
Unfortunately I don’t have a regular hitting buddy right now who’s willing to meet during the winter in the evenings on wet courts. So the wall is my new best friend. I had a guy, but his wife made him move to a remote church community in the middle of a forest an hour away from nearest tennis court, where he has to chop wood and fend off bears to heat his house. She told him that he had to dedicate himself 100% to god. He says he’s more of a 50% guy.
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You were obviously a bad influence on the guy. His wife had to save him.
 
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