Let us Create the 100% unbeatable player for every surface

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by HetTheGreaterer, May 17, 2018.

  1. HetTheGreaterer

    HetTheGreaterer Hall of Fame

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    Thread's intension is creativity.
    Take elements like FH, BH, Serve, Netplay, Movement, Stamina, Return, Footwork, mentality, and Speed/CourtCoverage from various players

    Some rules are given as follows

    1) you can not use a single player for more than 4 elements
    2) not more than 3 players for the same element....
    3) assume all players are at their peak when choosing elements



    My picks are as follows

    **On hc**

    Fed/Delpo FH
    Djok/Wawa BH
    Fed/Samp/Isner serve
    Samp/Fed/Edberg Netplay
    Djok/Agassi Return
    Djok/Murray/Nadal stamina
    Fed/Guga footwork
    Nadal/Djok/Agassi Mentality
    Nadal/Monfils Court Coverage

    What are yours???


    *on grass and clay* :-
    will update mine one after thinking further.

    provide your combination
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
    #1
  2. Zhilady

    Zhilady Professional

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    Karlovic’s first serve.
    Isner’s second serve.
    Agassi’s return.
    Federer’s forehand.
    Djokovic’s backhand.
    Nadal’s movement.

    You have an unbeatable player on any surface.
     
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  3. HetTheGreaterer

    HetTheGreaterer Hall of Fame

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    Technically I want to go into deep analysis and more variation
     
    #3
  4. vanioMan

    vanioMan Legend

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    No need to. Just put Rafael Nadal for clay ;)
     
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  5. HetTheGreaterer

    HetTheGreaterer Hall of Fame

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    Nope... He is not 100% undefeatable on clay
     
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  6. zep

    zep Hall of Fame

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    Even your imaginary player wouldn't be 100% unbeatable. He will still have his off days. At his absolute best, Nadal is almost unbeatable on clay, especially in best of 5. He is 104-2.
     
    #6
  7. Username_

    Username_ Professional

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    lukas rosol goat mode on grass
    soderling goat mode on clay
    tsonga goat mode on hardcourt
     
    #7
  8. MRfStop

    MRfStop Professional

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    What about height?
     
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  9. Bender

    Bender G.O.A.T.

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    On clay, just have Nadal with a mirrored version of Federer’s serve.

    If his groundstrokes are having an off day, he can servebot.

    If his serve isn’t that great on a given day, good luck beating him from the baseline.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  10. Deon Sanders

    Deon Sanders Hall of Fame

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    I am a simple person

    Just give me the greatest tennis player of all time for all of the marbles

    Roger
     
    #10
  11. Shaolin

    Shaolin G.O.A.T.

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    Fed with a prime Nalbandian or Djokovic 2hander=unbeatable on anything.
     
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  12. Rampart

    Rampart New User

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    On clay, Nadal with Roddicks serve (Maybe Djokovic/Guga backhand). Isner and Karlovics serve are unrealistic because it's a product of their height.
     
    #12
  13. King No1e

    King No1e Hall of Fame

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    Perfect tennis player (active only)
    Karlovic 1st
    Raonic 2nd
    Nadal forehand
    Wawrinka backhand if 1H
    Djokovic backhand if 2H
    Djokovic return
    Federer slice
    Federer volleys
    Federer smash
    Monfils speed
    Djokovic flexibility
    Tsonga reflexes
    Nadal mental strength
    Federer shot selection
     
    #13
  14. Red Rick

    Red Rick G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah I want to serve like I'm 2m11 but run around like I'm a 1m85 cause that makes it interesting
     
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  15. Deon Sanders

    Deon Sanders Hall of Fame

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    Can you convert this to freedom units please
     
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  16. FiReFTW

    FiReFTW Hall of Fame

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    Clay - Peak Nadal
    Grass - Peak Roger The Nuclear Forehanderer
    Fast Hard - Peak Roger The Nuclear Forehanderer
    Slow Hard - Peak Roger The Nuclear Forehanderer and Peak Djokovic
     
    #16
  17. Thomas195

    Thomas195 Semi-Pro

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    Old grass:

    Sampras with Becker/Stich backhand

    Krajicek with Sampras second serve, Edberg volleys and Becker/Stich backhand

    Edberg with Sampras serve and forehand

    Becker with Sampras head and movement

    Stich with Sampras forehand and head

    Ivanisevic with McEnroe volleys and Sampras head
     
    #17
  18. True Fanerer

    True Fanerer Legend

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    2005-2007 Federer if Nadal was never born.
     
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  19. AiRFederer

    AiRFederer Hall of Fame

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    Pick the 4 best qualities of Roger and 4 best qualities of Nadal, since those are the limits per OP.

    There you go brahs. Im betting my momma's life on that player.
     
    #19
  20. captainbryce

    captainbryce Hall of Fame

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    HC
    Serve: Isner/Karlovic/Roddick
    Return: Agassi/Djokovic/Federer
    Forehand: Federer/Del Potro/Blake
    Backhand: Wawrinka/Agassi/Safin
    Net Play: Edberg/Rafter/Sampras
    Stamina: Nadal/Murray/Djokovic
    Footwork: Federer/Edberg/Sampras
    Court Coverage: Chang/Hewitt/Monfils
    Mentality: Sampras/Agassi/Nadal

    Clay
    Serve: Isner/Roddick/Raonic
    Return: Djokovic/Federer/Agassi
    Forehand: Gonzalez/Federer/Sock
    Backhand: Kuerten/Wawrinka/Nalbandian
    Net Play: Edberg/Federer/Rafter
    Stamina: Nadal/Borg/Djokovic
    Footwork: Federer/Borg/Edberg
    Court Coverage: Nadal/Monfils/Chang
    Mentality: Nadal/Borg/Kuerten

    Grass
    Serve: Karlovic/Isner/Roddick
    Return: Federer/Agassi/Djokovic
    Forehand: Federer/Sampras/Del Potro
    Backhand: Agassi/Nalbandian/Wawrinka
    Net Play: Rafter/Sampras/McEnroe
    Stamina: Nadal/Murray/Djokovic
    Footwork: Federer/Edberg/Becker
    Court Coverage: Hewitt/Borg/Murray
    Mentality: Sampras/McEnroe/Becker
     
    #20
  21. axlrose

    axlrose Semi-Pro

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    [​IMG]
    ;)

    To answer OP question:

    First, the Ultimate Player you've built will still lose to peak Nadal on clay just the same.

    Second, I cant remember how many times you hear you guys say Fedr with Djoko/Safin/Nalban BH would be the Ultimate Player. I don't think so. His 1HBH perfectly fits his game. If he's a 2-hander, it's a high possibility that his slice would be less dangerous, his variety would be worse, he would come to the net less often... in general, he would be a far less completed player.
     
    #21
  22. True Fanerer

    True Fanerer Legend

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    I was waiting for Safin to pop up eventually. Some do forget that Federer was suffering from blisters in that match. He handled them well visually I'd say, but he had them.
     
    #22
  23. .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2018
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  24. titoelcolombiano

    titoelcolombiano Hall of Fame

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    Djoker 2011 is as close as you'll get
     
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  25. Thomas195

    Thomas195 Semi-Pro

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    Grass? Nope
     
    #25
  26. smoledman

    smoledman G.O.A.T.

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    2006 Federer on hard & grass for my life.
     
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  27. Federer and Del Potro

    Federer and Del Potro G.O.A.T.

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    Hypothetical Peak Zverev
     
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  28. Tennisanity

    Tennisanity Legend

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    You mean the guy that was effectively beaten in 2/3 slams by post-peak Fed? :)
     
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  29. Checkmate

    Checkmate Hall of Fame

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    Federer lost to him in 2 out of 3 SLAMS. Stop smookin weeed!!!
     
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  30. titoelcolombiano

    titoelcolombiano Hall of Fame

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    Yes - but was pretty stunning on all surfaces that year.
     
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  31. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Epic :p
     
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  32. Tennisanity

    Tennisanity Legend

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    Yes stunning, especially against Nadal, but still losing to old man Fed on the biggest stages and required Fed to have the biggest choke in history at the USO.
     
    #32
  33. Fedforever

    Fedforever Hall of Fame

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    Well, I can contribute Federer's perfect player.

    If you could build the perfect tennis player: How would he look like?

    That starts with a monster serve like John Isner, Ivo Karlovic or Pete Sampras when he was serving under pressure. With the forehand I would choose someone who can quickly generate power. For example Rafael Nadal, Fernando Gonzalez or James Blake. For footwork I would take Novak Djokovic. With the return I think of players who take the ball early like Andre Agassi or David Nalbandian. Right now I could also name Kei Nishikori or David Goffin. Also Djokovic who takes the ball a bit later but also brings it back way faster would be an alternative. For backhand I take Nalbandian but also players like Marat Safin or Stan Wawrinka come to mind. Is something missing? Oh yes, a volley player. I would go back into the time of Stefan Edberg, Patrick Rafter and Tim Henman.

    Didn‘t you forget yourself?

    I could also name myself but I wouldn‘t have a chance against this perfect player.

    Source: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqfsd6
     
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  34. clareyont

    clareyont Rookie

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    You wouldn't add Nadal into the FH? I think thats a big weakness not adding it it. You picked Fed and Delpo to great forehands, feds with exceptional variety but the problem is they are higher risk shots. Adding Nadals forehand gives you bugger margin for error on match points, windy conditions etc. Its a great forehand as it is so dependable and consistent and the same and allows more unforced errors from opponents so is good in pressure situations

    Nadal, Djokovic, Aggassi mentality? You mean on a match basis? If you mean career I'd take all three out and replace just with Fed. Nadal, Djokovic, Aggassi, all streaky players, with huge absences on the tour and epic drops in form and confidence issues. Also these guys aren't big match players at all. Djokovic lost way too many semis and finals which were winnable and also its a false analogy calling Nadal a big match player. Every slam match is big not just a final and he keeps losing 1R, 4R matches etc at slams

    Court coverage I'd add Djokovic into the mix

    Backhand Djkovic yeah

    Return aggassi djokovic dual combo is good cos djokovic weakness is some big servers so he needs aggassi thrown in
     
    #34
  35. HetTheGreaterer

    HetTheGreaterer Hall of Fame

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    Nadal FH not at all effective on fast HC, Grass, Indoors etc..
    Whereas in federer's case, his FH is the greatest shot in the tennis history
     
    #35
  36. clareyont

    clareyont Rookie

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    But you added delpo who's forehand is not effective virtually almost all the time he plays. He has good days and tournaments thats it. When his forehand is on it is unstoppable. When it is off it is a piece of trash constantly hitting the net and going out.

    As for nada'Is it is effective on all of those courts. His forehand is deadly on all of those surfaces but is occasionally to loopy when he goes all defensive. His serve lets him down as does his ROS and general positioning. His overall game needs more work and isnt GOAT level but to say it isn't effective it silly. Nadals forehand is an asset to add.
     
    #36
  37. Thomas195

    Thomas195 Semi-Pro

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    His forehand is untested on actual fast courts.
     
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  38. Thomas195

    Thomas195 Semi-Pro

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    I think 2hbh is not necessarily better than 1hbh in return of serves. One-handers were/are always better in chip/block returns, which were also very important on fast courts in the past.

    One-handers with conservative grip are also better on fast courts.
     
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  39. Incognito

    Incognito Hall of Fame

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    Karlovic serve
    Federer’s fh
    Murray’s return
    Nalbandian’s bh
    Nadal’s defense
    Edberg’s bh volley
    Mac’s fh volley
    Federer’s slice
    Sampras’ smash
    Borg’s endurance
    Connor’s grit
     
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  40. ak24alive

    ak24alive Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]
    His volleys!!
     
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  41. ak24alive

    ak24alive Hall of Fame

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    This is absolutely right but generally 2 handers are more consistent and less error prone. 1 handers can be highly explosive like Stan and ridiculous angles like Rog and Richard but still if I have to make the best player I will take Novak's or Kei's BH.
     
    #41
  42. Sport

    Sport Hall of Fame

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    Perfect ATP player:

    Nadal first serve.
    Monfils second serve.
    Cilic return.
    Berdych backhand.
    Pablo Carreño forehand.
    Karlovic speed.
    Federer stamina.
    Kyrgios mentality.
    Djokovic volley.
    Isner drop shots.
    Schwartzman height.

    100% unbeatatable.
     
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    #42
  43. Thomas195

    Thomas195 Semi-Pro

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    Serve: Sampras/Ivanisevic/Krajicek
    Forehand: Federer/Del Potro/Sampras
    Backhand: Federer/Becker/Edberg
    Volleys: Sampras/McEnroe/Edberg
    Return: Federer/Edberg/Sampras
    Movement: Federer/Edberg/Sampras
    Mentality: Sampras



    Raonic return
    Pre-2010 Djokovic stamina
    Rochus
    Karlovic
     
    #43
  44. merwy

    merwy Legend

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    He wants to serve like an AR-74 but run like a 9mm
     
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  45. captainbryce

    captainbryce Hall of Fame

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    Because a) he HAS won two JC grand slams (which is more difficult and more prestigious than winning a HC masters), b) one shot does not determine who wins a title, and c) he actually has an edge in backhand rallies against Federer. Federer just has the footwork and variety to be able to run around his backhand, force Wawrinka in, or hit forehands which completely changes they dynamic of the rally in Federer’s favor. None of the addresses the efficacy of Wawrinka’s backhand however (which happens to be possible the greatest 1HBH of all time). When it comes to 1HBH, there is Gustavo Kuerten, Stefan Edberg, and Stan Wawrinka. Federer is a distant 4th, followed by players such as Gasquet, Almagro, Haas, and Kohlschriber.
     
    #45
  46. captainbryce

    captainbryce Hall of Fame

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    Backhand works on any surface! Now when it comes to the rest of his game on grass, then yeah. I would certainly not pick him.
     
    #46
  47. Thomas195

    Thomas195 Semi-Pro

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    Add:
    Becker: you don't see many players capable of gunning down two-handers (not named Agassi) in BH-to-BH exchanges
    Stich: his BH allowed him to gun down Edberg and Becker back to back

    Wawrinka needs time to hit his groundstrokes, including BH.
     
    #47
  48. Sport

    Sport Hall of Fame

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    ? Federer's backhand has been exposed so many times by Nadal and Djokovic. It is great, but not the best ever.

    Neither Federer nor Sampras are among the top 3 best returners of all time.

    Both Djokovic and Nadal are better returners with higher return point conversion than Federer and Sampras. Sampras was relatively lazy to return, and the same applies to Federer. Federer's ability to return is good, but overrated in Federer Fans Warehouse. The main reason of Federer's success is his serve, not his return. That explains why he has won 8 Wimbledon titles (where the serve is relevant) and 1 Roland Garros (where the serve is far less relevant). It is like claiming that Roddick's achievements at Wimbledon and difficulties at Roland Garros are due to his return, not his serve. Nonsense.

    Djokovic in his good times, was something extraordinary. He had an incredible ability to return with agression and power. Very dangerous returns that usually endep up in winners. Federer's winners with the return are far less usual that peak Djokovic's one.

    Nadal fights like a beast every single return point, and has a higher return point conversion than Federer (please don't put the excuse that this is only on clay, because he has a higher return conversion on hard courts as well). Federer has never returned with so much intensity and efficacy as Nadal. Nadal in the US Open 2017 final ended up at least 40-40 every single Anderson service game, impressive taking under consideration that Anderson is a pure servebot. Nadal would have never won Wimbledon titles with his pretty average serve, if not for his good return ability.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
    #48
  49. Thomas195

    Thomas195 Semi-Pro

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    Well, to be more specified, my ideal player is a one-hander specializing on fast courts. My version of Fed backhand is the neo-backhand.

    Chip returns, which are one-handers' bread and butter, are also underrated, partly due to slower courts.
     
    #49
  50. clout

    clout Hall of Fame

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    HC:
    Karlovic's serve
    Fed's FH
    Djokovic's agility
    Agassi's return
    Nadal's defence/stamina
    Clay:
    Nadal with any big servers' serve
    Grass:
    Sampras' serve
    McEnroe's volleys
    Fed's FH
     
    #50

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