Let us Create the 100% unbeatable player for every surface

#1
Thread's intension is creativity.
Take elements like FH, BH, Serve, Netplay, Movement, Stamina, Return, Footwork, mentality, and Speed/CourtCoverage from various players

Some rules are given as follows

1) you can not use a single player for more than 4 elements
2) not more than 3 players for the same element....
3) assume all players are at their peak when choosing elements



My picks are as follows

**On hc**

Fed/Delpo FH
Djok/Wawa BH
Fed/Samp/Isner serve
Samp/Fed/Edberg Netplay
Djok/Agassi Return
Djok/Murray/Nadal stamina
Fed/Guga footwork
Nadal/Djok/Agassi Mentality
Nadal/Monfils Court Coverage

What are yours???


*on grass and clay* :-
will update mine one after thinking further.

provide your combination
 
Last edited:
#4
Thread's intension is creativity.
Take elements like FH, BH, Serve, Netplay, Movement, Stamina, Return, Footwork, mentality, and Speed/CourtCoverage from various players

Some rules are given as follows

1) you can not use a single player for more than 4 elements
2) not more than 3 players for the same element....
3) assume all players are at their peak when choosing elements



My picks are as follows

**On hc**

Fed/Delpo FH
Djok/Wawa BH
Fed/Samp/Isner serve
Samp/Fed/Edberg Netplay
Djok/Agassi Return
Djok/Murray/Nadal stamina
Fed/Guga footwork
Nadal/Djok/Agassi Mentality
Nadal/Monfils Court Coverage

What are yours???


*on grass and clay* :-
will update mine one after thinking further.


provide your combination
No need to. Just put Rafael Nadal for clay ;)
 
#9
On clay, just have Nadal with a mirrored version of Federer’s serve.

If his groundstrokes are having an off day, he can servebot.

If his serve isn’t that great on a given day, good luck beating him from the baseline.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#12
On clay, Nadal with Roddicks serve (Maybe Djokovic/Guga backhand). Isner and Karlovics serve are unrealistic because it's a product of their height.
 
#13
Karlovic’s first serve.
Isner’s second serve.
Agassi’s return.
Federer’s forehand.
Djokovic’s backhand.
Nadal’s movement.

You have an unbeatable player on any surface.
Perfect tennis player (active only)
Karlovic 1st
Raonic 2nd
Nadal forehand
Wawrinka backhand if 1H
Djokovic backhand if 2H
Djokovic return
Federer slice
Federer volleys
Federer smash
Monfils speed
Djokovic flexibility
Tsonga reflexes
Nadal mental strength
Federer shot selection
 
#16
Clay - Peak Nadal
Grass - Peak Roger The Nuclear Forehanderer
Fast Hard - Peak Roger The Nuclear Forehanderer
Slow Hard - Peak Roger The Nuclear Forehanderer and Peak Djokovic
 
#17
Old grass:

Sampras with Becker/Stich backhand

Krajicek with Sampras second serve, Edberg volleys and Becker/Stich backhand

Edberg with Sampras serve and forehand

Becker with Sampras head and movement

Stich with Sampras forehand and head

Ivanisevic with McEnroe volleys and Sampras head
 
#19
Pick the 4 best qualities of Roger and 4 best qualities of Nadal, since those are the limits per OP.

There you go brahs. Im betting my momma's life on that player.
 
#20
HC
Serve: Isner/Karlovic/Roddick
Return: Agassi/Djokovic/Federer
Forehand: Federer/Del Potro/Blake
Backhand: Wawrinka/Agassi/Safin
Net Play: Edberg/Rafter/Sampras
Stamina: Nadal/Murray/Djokovic
Footwork: Federer/Edberg/Sampras
Court Coverage: Chang/Hewitt/Monfils
Mentality: Sampras/Agassi/Nadal

Clay
Serve: Isner/Roddick/Raonic
Return: Djokovic/Federer/Agassi
Forehand: Gonzalez/Federer/Sock
Backhand: Kuerten/Wawrinka/Nalbandian
Net Play: Edberg/Federer/Rafter
Stamina: Nadal/Borg/Djokovic
Footwork: Federer/Borg/Edberg
Court Coverage: Nadal/Monfils/Chang
Mentality: Nadal/Borg/Kuerten

Grass
Serve: Karlovic/Isner/Roddick
Return: Federer/Agassi/Djokovic
Forehand: Federer/Sampras/Del Potro
Backhand: Agassi/Nalbandian/Wawrinka
Net Play: Rafter/Sampras/McEnroe
Stamina: Nadal/Murray/Djokovic
Footwork: Federer/Edberg/Becker
Court Coverage: Hewitt/Borg/Murray
Mentality: Sampras/McEnroe/Becker
 
#21
2005-2007 Federer if Nadal was never born.

;)

To answer OP question:

First, the Ultimate Player you've built will still lose to peak Nadal on clay just the same.

Second, I cant remember how many times you hear you guys say Fedr with Djoko/Safin/Nalban BH would be the Ultimate Player. I don't think so. His 1HBH perfectly fits his game. If he's a 2-hander, it's a high possibility that his slice would be less dangerous, his variety would be worse, he would come to the net less often... in general, he would be a far less completed player.
 
#22

;)

To answer OP question:

First, the Ultimate Player you've built will still lose to peak Nadal on clay just the same.

Second, I cant remember how many times you hear you guys say Fedr with Djoko/Safin/Nalban BH would be the Ultimate Player. I don't think so. His 1HBH perfectly fits his game. If he's a 2-hander, it's a high possibility that his slice would be less dangerous, his variety would be worse, he would come to the net less often... in general, he would be a far less completed player.
I was waiting for Safin to pop up eventually. Some do forget that Federer was suffering from blisters in that match. He handled them well visually I'd say, but he had them.
 
#33
Well, I can contribute Federer's perfect player.

If you could build the perfect tennis player: How would he look like?

That starts with a monster serve like John Isner, Ivo Karlovic or Pete Sampras when he was serving under pressure. With the forehand I would choose someone who can quickly generate power. For example Rafael Nadal, Fernando Gonzalez or James Blake. For footwork I would take Novak Djokovic. With the return I think of players who take the ball early like Andre Agassi or David Nalbandian. Right now I could also name Kei Nishikori or David Goffin. Also Djokovic who takes the ball a bit later but also brings it back way faster would be an alternative. For backhand I take Nalbandian but also players like Marat Safin or Stan Wawrinka come to mind. Is something missing? Oh yes, a volley player. I would go back into the time of Stefan Edberg, Patrick Rafter and Tim Henman.

Didn‘t you forget yourself?

I could also name myself but I wouldn‘t have a chance against this perfect player.

Source: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqfsd6
 
#34
Thread's intension is creativity.
Take elements like FH, BH, Serve, Netplay, Movement, Stamina, Return, Footwork, mentality, and Speed/CourtCoverage from various players

Some rules are given as follows

1) you can not use a single player for more than 4 elements
2) not more than 3 players for the same element....
3) assume all players are at their peak when choosing elements



My picks are as follows

**On hc**

Fed/Delpo FH
Djok/Wawa BH
Fed/Samp/Isner serve
Samp/Fed/Edberg Netplay
Djok/Agassi Return
Djok/Murray/Nadal stamina
Fed/Guga footwork
Nadal/Djok/Agassi Mentality
Nadal/Monfils Court Coverage

What are yours???


*on grass and clay* :-
will update mine one after thinking further.

provide your combination
You wouldn't add Nadal into the FH? I think thats a big weakness not adding it it. You picked Fed and Delpo to great forehands, feds with exceptional variety but the problem is they are higher risk shots. Adding Nadals forehand gives you bugger margin for error on match points, windy conditions etc. Its a great forehand as it is so dependable and consistent and the same and allows more unforced errors from opponents so is good in pressure situations

Nadal, Djokovic, Aggassi mentality? You mean on a match basis? If you mean career I'd take all three out and replace just with Fed. Nadal, Djokovic, Aggassi, all streaky players, with huge absences on the tour and epic drops in form and confidence issues. Also these guys aren't big match players at all. Djokovic lost way too many semis and finals which were winnable and also its a false analogy calling Nadal a big match player. Every slam match is big not just a final and he keeps losing 1R, 4R matches etc at slams

Court coverage I'd add Djokovic into the mix

Backhand Djkovic yeah

Return aggassi djokovic dual combo is good cos djokovic weakness is some big servers so he needs aggassi thrown in
 
#35
You wouldn't add Nadal into the FH? I think thats a big weakness not adding it it. You picked Fed and Delpo to great forehands, feds with exceptional variety but the problem is they are higher risk shots. Adding Nadals forehand gives you bugger margin for error on match points, windy conditions etc. Its a great forehand as it is so dependable and consistent and the same and allows more unforced errors from opponents so is good in pressure situations

Nadal, Djokovic, Aggassi mentality? You mean on a match basis? If you mean career I'd take all three out and replace just with Fed. Nadal, Djokovic, Aggassi, all streaky players, with huge absences on the tour and epic drops in form and confidence issues. Also these guys aren't big match players at all. Djokovic lost way too many semis and finals which were winnable and also its a false analogy calling Nadal a big match player. Every slam match is big not just a final and he keeps losing 1R, 4R matches etc at slams

Court coverage I'd add Djokovic into the mix

Backhand Djkovic yeah

Return aggassi djokovic dual combo is good cos djokovic weakness is some big servers so he needs aggassi thrown in
Nadal FH not at all effective on fast HC, Grass, Indoors etc..
Whereas in federer's case, his FH is the greatest shot in the tennis history
 
#36
Nadal FH not at all effective on fast HC, Grass, Indoors etc..
Whereas in federer's case, his FH is the greatest shot in the tennis history
But you added delpo who's forehand is not effective virtually almost all the time he plays. He has good days and tournaments thats it. When his forehand is on it is unstoppable. When it is off it is a piece of trash constantly hitting the net and going out.

As for nada'Is it is effective on all of those courts. His forehand is deadly on all of those surfaces but is occasionally to loopy when he goes all defensive. His serve lets him down as does his ROS and general positioning. His overall game needs more work and isnt GOAT level but to say it isn't effective it silly. Nadals forehand is an asset to add.
 
#38
I think 2hbh is not necessarily better than 1hbh in return of serves. One-handers were/are always better in chip/block returns, which were also very important on fast courts in the past.

One-handers with conservative grip are also better on fast courts.
 
#39
Karlovic serve
Federer’s fh
Murray’s return
Nalbandian’s bh
Nadal’s defense
Edberg’s bh volley
Mac’s fh volley
Federer’s slice
Sampras’ smash
Borg’s endurance
Connor’s grit
 
#41
I think 2hbh is not necessarily better than 1hbh in return of serves. One-handers were/are always better in chip/block returns, which were also very important on fast courts in the past.

One-handers with conservative grip are also better on fast courts.
This is absolutely right but generally 2 handers are more consistent and less error prone. 1 handers can be highly explosive like Stan and ridiculous angles like Rog and Richard but still if I have to make the best player I will take Novak's or Kei's BH.
 
#43
#45
Yes Wawrinka has a great backhand but more times than not when he goes backhand to backhand in rallies with Federer he comes up short so I don’t know how highly his backhand should be rated. He has never won a HC masters so I don’t know why people would pick his backhand.
Because a) he HAS won two JC grand slams (which is more difficult and more prestigious than winning a HC masters), b) one shot does not determine who wins a title, and c) he actually has an edge in backhand rallies against Federer. Federer just has the footwork and variety to be able to run around his backhand, force Wawrinka in, or hit forehands which completely changes they dynamic of the rally in Federer’s favor. None of the addresses the efficacy of Wawrinka’s backhand however (which happens to be possible the greatest 1HBH of all time). When it comes to 1HBH, there is Gustavo Kuerten, Stefan Edberg, and Stan Wawrinka. Federer is a distant 4th, followed by players such as Gasquet, Almagro, Haas, and Kohlschriber.
 
#47
Gustavo Kuerten, Stefan Edberg, and Stan Wawrinka
Add:
Becker: you don't see many players capable of gunning down two-handers (not named Agassi) in BH-to-BH exchanges
Stich: his BH allowed him to gun down Edberg and Becker back to back

Wawrinka needs time to hit his groundstrokes, including BH.
 
#48
Serve: Sampras/Ivanisevic/Krajicek
Backhand: Federer
Return: Federer/Sampras
? Federer's backhand has been exposed so many times by Nadal and Djokovic. It is great, but not the best ever.

Neither Federer nor Sampras are among the top 3 best returners of all time.

Both Djokovic and Nadal are better returners with higher return point conversion than Federer and Sampras. Sampras was relatively lazy to return, and the same applies to Federer. Federer's ability to return is good, but overrated in Federer Fans Warehouse. The main reason of Federer's success is his serve, not his return. That explains why he has won 8 Wimbledon titles (where the serve is relevant) and 1 Roland Garros (where the serve is far less relevant). It is like claiming that Roddick's achievements at Wimbledon and difficulties at Roland Garros are due to his return, not his serve. Nonsense.

Djokovic in his good times, was something extraordinary. He had an incredible ability to return with agression and power. Very dangerous returns that usually endep up in winners. Federer's winners with the return are far less usual that peak Djokovic's one.

Nadal fights like a beast every single return point, and has a higher return point conversion than Federer (please don't put the excuse that this is only on clay, because he has a higher return conversion on hard courts as well). Federer has never returned with so much intensity and efficacy as Nadal. Nadal in the US Open 2017 final ended up at least 40-40 every single Anderson service game, impressive taking under consideration that Anderson is a pure servebot. Nadal would have never won Wimbledon titles with his pretty average serve, if not for his good return ability.
 
Last edited:
#49
? Federer's backhand has been exposed so many times by Nadal and Djokovic. It is great, but not the best ever.

Neither Federer nor Sampras are among the best returners of all time.

Both Djokovic and Nadal are better returners with higher return point conversion than Federer and Sampras. Sampras was relatively lazy to return, and the same applies to Federer. Federer's ability to return is good, but overrated in Federer Fans Warehouse. The main reason of Federer's success is his serve, not his return. That explains why he has won 8 Wimbledon titles (where the serve is relevant) and 1 Roland Garros (where the serve is far less relevant). It is like claiming that Roddick's achievements at Wimbledon and difficulties at Roland Garros are due to his return, not his serve. Nonsense.

Djokovic in his good times, was something extraordinary. He had an incredible ability to return with agression and power. Very dangerous returns that usually endep up in winners. Federer's winners with the return are far less usual that peak Djokovic's one.

Nadal fights like a beast every single return point, and has a higher return point conversion than Federer (please don't put the excuse that this is only on clay, because he has a higher return conversion on hard courts as well). Federer has never returned with so much intensity and efficacy as Nadal. Nadal in the US Open 2017 final ended up at least 40-40 every single Anderson service game, impressive taking under consideration that Anderson is a pure servebot. Nadal would have never won Wimbledon titles with his pretty average serve, if not for his good return ability.
Well, to be more specified, my ideal player is a one-hander specializing on fast courts. My version of Fed backhand is the neo-backhand.

Chip returns, which are one-handers' bread and butter, are also underrated, partly due to slower courts.
 

clout

Hall of Fame
#50
HC:
Karlovic's serve
Fed's FH
Djokovic's agility
Agassi's return
Nadal's defence/stamina
Clay:
Nadal with any big servers' serve
Grass:
Sampras' serve
McEnroe's volleys
Fed's FH
 
Top