Let us suumarise Djokovic's gameplan, techniques and tactics against rafa

[HetTheGreaterer]

Djokovic has literally humiliated rafa so many times as we know. On every surface, 7-0 7-0 twice. And he is far better player than nadal on all other surfaces which are not clay...

But still, We all know the universal truth that nadal is the king, or rather say god of clay courts.

None in the modern tennis era has ever been able to consistently challange his dominance over clay (Not even the greatest of all time, roger federer) with the exception of Novak Djokovic..
I am not talking only about the nole's clay victories over rafa, or nole being the only player to beat rafa at all major clay tournaments... Yes that's it but.......
What I want to discuss also, is that even in his defeats at the hands of rafa on clay, nole made him to work much much harder than whole field, even in nadal's best clay years (and djokovic's non-prime years)
Let us discuss what game does djokovic possess, which has been consistently troubling rafa even on clay, where he is the greatest by a far margin....
In my opinion
1st one is :- Djokovic's backhand is a big weapon, it has both consistency and power to sustain in long rallies with rafa
2nd one is :- Djokovic's never-say-die attitude..

Discuss other factors...

 

[MichaelNadal]

Humiliated nothing. He had ONE good year where he could finally beat his daddy in slams, and haden't before or since.

 

[Krish0608]

Novak's relentlessness off the ground intimidated Rafa. There was nowhere to go. His heavy topspin put others in uncomfortable positions. Whereas Novak used to take them on with the BH CC and DTL consistently. He just gave the sense that he was doing everything better than Rafa, even defense. That's what puzzled and intimidated Nadal a bit.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Humiliated nothing. He had ONE good year where he could finally beat his daddy in slams, and haden't before or since.

Well...he did in ao 2012 and rg 15 as well as 11 ...you gotta admit he's played Rafa on clay better than anyone else though.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

He's a good matchup relatively , 2hbh with western grip sucks up topspin forehand better than most, being nearly 6'2 as well helps with dealing with the high balls but not too tall that he can't move as well as anyone

 

[Mainad]

Well...he did in ao 2012 and rg 15 as well as 11 ...you gotta admit he's played Rafa on clay better than anyone else though.

Correct. He's the only player to beat Nadal at all the big clay events ie. RG and the 3 clay Masters.

 

[True Fanerer]

Humiliated nothing. He had ONE good year where he could finally beat his daddy in slams, and haden't before or since.

Gotta admit that Djokovic had his number there for a while.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Humiliated nothing. He had ONE good year where he could finally beat his daddy in slams, and haden't before or since.

7-0 7-0 twice
First one on peak nadal
(Yes a player is peak when he makes 7 finals in a row, with 4 of them being consecutive GS finals)

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Well...he did in ao 2012 and rg 15 as well as 11 ...you gotta admit he's played Rafa on clay better than anyone else though.

Wim 11
USO 11
AO 12
RG 15

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

2hbh with western grip sucks up topspin forehand

Exactly how??
So many good players use it I think, but still can not handle rafa's tremendous topspins

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Correct. He's the only player to beat Nadal at all the big clay events ie. RG and the 3 clay Masters.

True
And one of the only 2 players to beat rafa in clay BO5 (yes rafa was utter crap in 2015 by his standards, but still he was rafa, it was PC court of RG plus best-of-five clay match)
The other one being soderling
Fed came so close in 2011 RG, but his own mentality sucked him up

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Novak's relentlessness off the ground intimidated Rafa. There was nowhere to go. His heavy topspin put others in uncomfortable positions. Whereas Novak used to take them on with the BH CC and DTL consistently. He just gave the sense that he was doing everything better than Rafa, even defense. That's what puzzled and intimidated Nadal a bit.

Wish if he had developed his FH as a lethal weapon, capable of hitting multiple Cross-Court and Down-The-Line winners and/or shorten points, like fed or nadal himself.....

 

[BringBackSV]

True
And one of the only 2 players to beat rafa in clay BO5 (yes rafa was utter crap in 2015 by his standards, but still he was rafa, it was PC court of RG plus best-of-five clay match)
The other one being soderling
Fed came so close in 2011 RG, but his own mentality sucked him up

Rafa was trash in 15. Novak came close before that in 13 against a pretty damn good Rafa.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Exactly how??
So many good players use it I think, but still can not handle rafa's tremendous topspins

Most dont have as extreme grip which allows for increased comfort with higher contact point, and Novak is 6'1 and a half which is pretty perfect for tennis.

Also he just had a great backhand in general, one of the all time best if not the best, particularly defensively.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Rafa was trash in 15. Novak came close before that in 13 against a pretty damn good Rafa.

Yes he was trash but still...

And also there is another stunning point
Novak is one of the only 3 players to drag the match into 5th deciding set in a BO5 clay match, with rafa. With other 2 being federer - rome 2006 final (please.......why didn't you damn win it rogi....)
And John Isner - Roland Garros 2011 1st Round

 

[Mike Sams]

Humiliated nothing. He had ONE good year where he could finally beat his daddy in slams, and haden't before or since.

It was more than 1 good year actually.
Since the beginning of 2011, it's been 19-9 for Djokovic over Nadal.
Djokovic bludgeoned Nadal 6 times in a row in 2011. And then 7 times in a row from 2015 to 2016. That's 3 different years of domination. Djokovic would've eaten Nadal up many more times if Nadal had made it to the second week of Slams a few more times.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Most dont have as extreme grip which allows for increased comfort with higher contact point, and Novak is 6'1 and a half which is pretty perfect for tennis.

Also he just had a great backhand in general, one of the all time best if not the best, particularly defensively.

His BH, I am not sure about
But his ROS is surely the best in business, the closest one is Agassi's

 

[Mike Sams]

Novak's relentlessness off the ground intimidated Rafa. There was nowhere to go. His heavy topspin put others in uncomfortable positions. Whereas Novak used to take them on with the BH CC and DTL consistently. He just gave the sense that he was doing everything better than Rafa, even defense. That's what puzzled and intimidated Nadal a bit.

Nadal was basically playing a right handed version of himself but with a much stronger BH and more flexibility who could grind and run down every ball. I think it was McEnroe who first made that assumption back in the Wimbledon 2011 finals when Djokovic was running Nadal ragged. Basically McEnroe said "Djokovic is Out-Rafaing Rafa!" LOL

 

[BringBackSV]

It was more than 1 good year actually.
Since the beginning of 2011, it's been 19-9 for Djokovic over Nadal.
Djokovic bludgeoned Nadal 6 times in a row in 2011. And then 7 times in a row from 2015 to 2016. That's 3 different years of domination. Djokovic would've eaten Nadal up many more times if Nadal had made it to the second week of Slams a few more times.

A bit unfair. Definitely kicked his ass in 11 and has a stylistic advantage but lucky that he didnt play Rafa nearly as much in his slump as Rafa played Novak in his.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

A bit unfair. Definitely kicked his ass in 11 and has a stylistic advantage but lucky that he didnt play Rafa nearly as much in his slump as Rafa played Novak in his.

Nope...
He played nadal so many times in nadal's peak/prime and djokovic's before-prime period
(So many matches before 2011)

 

[Mike Sams]

A bit unfair. Definitely kicked his ass in 11 and has a stylistic advantage but lucky that he didnt play Rafa nearly as much in his slump as Rafa played Novak in his.

Slow to medium hardcourts are a considerable advantage for Djokovic over Nadal and Federer.
Djokovic struggles more against them on faster hardcourts.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Nadal was basically playing a right handed version of himself but with a much stronger BH and more flexibility who could grind and run down every ball. I think it was McEnroe who first made that assumption back in the Wimbledon 2011 finals when Djokovic was running Nadal ragged. Basically McEnroe said "Djokovic is Out-Rafaing Rafa!" LOL

Its not fair to call djokovic as right handed rafa..
His FH is not as lethal...
But yeah, the flexibility and other aspects are super

 

[Deleted member 716271]

His BH, I am not sure about
But his ROS is surely the best in business, the closest one is Agassi's

Actually think Murray is close in ROS

Backhand I think Novak has the best ever

 

[Russeljones]

This belongs in the Former Pro Player section

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Slow to medium hardcourts are a considerable advantage for Djokovic over Nadal and Federer.
Djokovic struggles more against them on faster hardcourts.

...
Djokovic does not struggle against nadal on fast HC...
Example :-
Nadal barely saved straight-set humiliation in USO11 final on fast HC
Against federer, he struggles everywhere (except super-slow HCs plus Old fed) even when fed is old AF....

 

[NoleFam]

1. Nadal's cross court forehand plays right into one of Djokovic's strengths, his backhand. He able to counter that shot and force Rafa back into a neutral position more times than most can.
2. He can go toe to toe with Rafa in defense to offense. Most players cannot compete with Rafa in this area and once they are put on the defensive by Rafa's offense, they cannot recover. Nole can recover and turn the tables back on Rafa like he does to everyone else.
3. Djokovic counters Rafa spin better than most. The spinning forehand to Djokovic's backhand cannot hurt him like it does others and he can also counter the inside out hammer forehand to his own forehand and push Rafa back into a more neutral position.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

This belongs in the Former Pro Player section

Would have been a better joke 3 months ago

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Actually think Murray is close in ROS

Backhand I think Novak has the best ever

Murray not ATG
And his ROS not that consistent like novak's

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Murray not ATG
And his ROS not that consistent like novak's

He's better against good servers, doesnt matter if hes an all time great or not. I'd still take Novak over him but AM is close

Novak's backhand is second to none though imo

 

[Russeljones]

Would have been a better joke 3 months ago

Let's revisit when they actually meet again.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

This belongs in the Former Pro Player section

We would have surely believed you if the date was 30th march 2018, instead of 30th june 2018...

1. Nadal's inside out hammer forehand is usually lights out for everyone else but it plays right into one of Djokovic's strengths, his backhand. He able to counter that shot and force Rafa back into a neutral position more times than most can.
2. He can go toe to toe with Rafa in defense to offense. Most players cannot compete with Rafa in this area and once they are put on the defensive by Rafa's offense, they cannot recover. Nole can recover and turn the tables back on Rafa like he does to everyone else.
3. Djokovic counters Rafa spin better than most. The spinning forehand to Djokovic's backhand cannot hurt him like it does others and he can also counter it on his own forehand and push Rafa back into a more neutral position.

In 2nd point....
Just one thing....when do these both go for offense?? Both are defensive pusher walls most of the time
(Just joking ya)

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

He's better against good servers, doesnt matter if hes an all time great or not. I'd still take Novak over him but AM is close

Novak's backhand is second to none though imo

In backhand section,
What's the thought about wawrinka?
Agassi??
Federer???

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Let's revisit when they actually meet again.

The not-possible meeting is Wim18 SF
(Nadal won't make that far, so as djok)
But if by stars' alignment, they meet, it would be their first grass meeting in 7 years

 

[Deleted member 716271]

In backhand section,
What's the thought about wawrinka?
Agassi??
Federer???

Only Agassi is close, backhand is maybe better slightly offensively but not close defensively and more prone to break down

Wawa aesthetic and great shot but not as effective, same with Federer

 

[MichaelNadal]

It was more than 1 good year actually.
Since the beginning of 2011, it's been 19-9 for Djokovic over Nadal.
Djokovic bludgeoned Nadal 6 times in a row in 2011. And then 7 times in a row from 2015 to 2016. That's 3 different years of domination. Djokovic would've eaten Nadal up many more times if Nadal had made it to the second week of Slams a few more times.

2015-16 don't count, and even if they did, Rafa is still his daddy 17>12

 

[Mike Sams]

2015-16 don't count, and even if they did, Rafa is still his daddy 17>12

Djokovic still exceeds him in prize money earned by a considerable margin.

 

[Checkmate]

Even to the balls which he takes late, there is an incredible balance and execution. Also dunno why but I noticed a bit of disguise in his hitting, not very noticeable but there exists that element too.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

2015-16 don't count, and even if they did, Rafa is still his daddy 17>12

Rafa is a better player than nole on clay and no one denies that
.
.
The talk is about nole's extraordinary and unmatched success vs rafael on clay

 

[BringBackSV]

Nope...
He played nadal so many times in nadal's peak/prime and djokovic's before-prime period
(So many matches before 2011)

I was talking about the skewed nature of the second dominant run vs a slumping Rafa who was losing to everyone. Thats really nothing like the first one in 11-12 and Novak is fortunate he didn't similarily have to play Rafa much during his own current slump. Good talk bud.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

Djokovic has literally humiliated rafa so many times as we know. On every surface, 7-0 7-0 twice.

This first sentence right here sets the tone for how you want this thread to be seen. This is a straight attack on Nadal and his fans, how you expect a constructive discussion to follow after this is beyond me. Djokovic has NOT humiliated Nadal, he has been his fiercest rival though, but humiliation is not the correct word. And I say this as someone who prefers Djokovic over every active tennis player right now.

 

[Sport]

Djokovic has literally humiliated rafa so many times as we know. On every surface, 7-0 7-0 twice.

As everyone knows, Djokovic has humilliated Federer much more.

GS tournaments are widely considered to be the most relevant ones. Analogously, H2H at GS should be considered more relevant than H2H at Masters 1000, Masters 500 and other minor tournaments. Otherwise we would be displaying a double standard logic.

Djokovic defeated Nadal in 3 GS matches in a row (WB 2011, USO 2011 and AO 2012). But Nadal defeated him in 4 GS matches in a row (FO 2012, FO 2013, USO 2013 and FO 2014). Crutially, Djokovic defeated Federer in 4 GS matches in a row (WB 2014, WB 2015, USO 2015, AO 2016).

So Nadal has damaged more Djokovic at GS than vice versa (4 GS victories in a row >>> 3 GS victories in a row). Nadal also leads overall Djokovic 9-4 in Grand Slams (including 2-1 at the US Open). And Djokovic has damaged more Federer at GS than Nadal (4 GS lost in a row >>>> 3 GS lost in a row). Djokovic leads Federer 9-6 at Grand Slams.

 

[RF-18]

Humiliated nothing. He had ONE good year where he could finally beat his daddy in slams, and haden't before or since.

In denial? The guy beat him 7 times in a row on two occasions, in one of those runs Nadal didn't even take a set. Ultimate destruction.

 

[kevaninho]

Djokovic still exceeds him in prize money earned by a considerable margin.

Im sure its balanced out by Nadals much higher sponsorship earnings, along with his polularity.

 

[MichaelNadal]

In denial? The guy beat him 7 times in a row on two occasions, in one of those runs Nadal didn't even take a set. Ultimate destruction.

Yet one was when Nadal was at the lowest point in his career, and 2011 is still the only other time he actually beat Nadal in finals that matter Yeah he's great, and yet Nadal is still daddy, so how epic must Nadal be?

 

[kevaninho]

In denial? The guy beat him 7 times in a row on two occasions, in one of those runs Nadal didn't even take a set. Ultimate destruction.

Well the 2nd streak Nadal was losing to everyone, even on clay.
If Djokovic had made it to Nadal somewhere in the past year and a half, Nadal would also have been on a similar streak.
That's how bad they've both been at that respective time.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

Yet one was when Nadal was at the lowest point in his career, and 2011 is still the only other time he actually beat Nadal in finals that matter Yeah he's great, and yet Nadal is still daddy, so how epic must Nadal be?

While this is a troll thread, and Nadal has not been humiliated by Djokovic, Nadal is NOT Djokovic's daddy. Not a chance.

Nadal maybe epic, but he is NOT Earth's Mightiest Warrior.

 

[MichaelNadal]

While this is a troll thread, and Nadal has not been humiliated by Djokovic, Nadal is NOT Djokovic's daddy. Not a chance.

Nadal maybe epic, but he is NOT Earth's Mightiest Warrior.

Nope, just your reighning, defending......

 

[Mike Sams]

Im sure its balanced out by Nadals much higher sponsorship earnings, along with his polularity.

Federer has double the sponsorship earnings than Nadal.

 

[Gazelle]

Humiliated nothing. He had ONE good year where he could finally beat his daddy in slams, and haden't before or since.

Lol, one good year. If Rafa had met him in slams outside clay in 2014-2016, Daddy would have been talking in an even higher pitch ever since.

 

[robthai]

He's better against good servers, doesnt matter if hes an all time great or not. I'd still take Novak over him but AM is close

Novak's backhand is second to none though imo

You dont think Zverev has a better backhand than Djokovic?