Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Playing well.
Let us suumarise Djokovic's gameplan, techniques and tactics against rafa
- Thread starter HetTheGreaterer
- Start date
You don't get it, pros don't care about the goat thing, it's just us who care. That's why they are where they are and why we are here. They worry about improving their game all the time and not on such stuff as goat. They don't even talk about goat unless they are forced by the press, they don't care, trust me. And even if they would care, they still wouldn't talk about it, because they have class and greatness.
A never see great people talking about how great they are. This is what makes them great, when I meat a great person, they are interested in me, not talking about themselves.
Eren
Professional
Doesn't everyone know as well that Nadal in his slump is so pathetic that he could not reach Djokovic in 2015-2016? The only time he did was at RG 2015 on his best surface at age 29. He got a straight set beating, no? Federer at 34 (!!!) took Djokovic to 4 sets.
You're praising Nadal for losing against mugs lol. Get real!
The H2H in Slams for Nadal against Fed and Djoker looks nice, but it shows that Fed and Djoker could reach Nadal often on his preferred surface but not so much the other way around. Off clay it's simply 3-3 and 4-3 to Nadal. 2016 Federer was pathetic for his standards and he still reached Djokovic at the AO where Djokovic was peaking.
Federer should have lost to mugs any time he wasn't in good form, at least the H2H wouldn't have been that skewed. Djokovic is doing it now, losing to mugs that is. Nadal has done it often and is getting praised for it.
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
Really true
Also 34 year old fed beat ultron peak djokovic 3 times in his nole's best ever season.... Half of the losses from whole season to a single guy who is grandpa from tennis standards
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Albeit a grandpa who's considered by many to be the greatest player ever.
I don't think it's fair to compare their h2h. They never played both at their peaks, they are from different eras. Fed's era is 2003-2010, Djokovic era is from 2011-2016.
And on top of that, the tour and the surfaces were totally different, so you needed different skills to win in Fed's era than in Djokovic era, that's why their h2h is basically useless.
And isn't this logical, since they are 6 years apart in age that their peaks will be 6 years apart?
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
True....
But everyone has a decline, so as federer.
2003-12 fed would easily beat this resurgent 2017-18 one or 2014-15 fed
And 2011 djok will bagel and breadstick any version of nole ever seen
Ok, so using your logic Fed's record versus Djokovic before 2011 shouldn't count either, right, since Djokovic also wasn't in his peak.
zagor
Bionic Poster
Not choking.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Perfect combination to beat RAFA.
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
I think you are taking it in a wrong way...
I am not even talking about matches of fedovic or any other players
Personally I feel that fedovic h2h is something unjust to fed as most of the matches were in djok's prime and still fed is only 1 win behind (22-23)
What I actually meant to say in this post, was that however great a player is, he declines for sure. And from steep decline (say fed 2013 & 16, nad 2015 - 16), only a handful of great players are able to resurge themselves and win big tournies afterwards... (Both fedal 2017-18)
But we can not compare their resurgent versions to their peak/prime versions. As peak versions are the best no matter whatever arguments we give. I mean we can not compare federer of 2004-07 (peak) or 2003-09(prime) or 2003-12(extended prime) with 2014-15 or 2017-18 fed, those were far better versions of fed..
And by any means, if fed from any of those years can arrive and play this 2017-18 fed, he will surely defeat him in straighs (no bagel/breadstick due to old fed's serve being too good)
Just like we cannot compare nadal of 2008/2010/2013 (peak) or 2006-2014 (prime) with 2017-18 nadal..
Those were far better versions of nadal and by any means, if young nadal can arrive from those peak years and play this 2017-18 nadal, he will surely defeat him handily (ultra super defense and way more lethal FH of peakdal/primedal)
(Not writing about djok as we are yet to see his resurgence from mid-2016 steep decline)...
You totally misunderstood my post
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kevaninho
Hall of Fame
See and this is my problem. People here have such subjective definitions about peak and prime and it's so arbitrary for most, that I can't take anyone seriously.
Even if peak Djoko can beat peak Fed, does it really matter if Djokovic can't sustain the level for years? Everybody would be goats if they could sustain their peaks, that's why consistency and longevity are the best measures for greatness, why do we even try to go into this subjective h2h and peak arguments?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Well you stated that Nadal "owns" him in career achievements so why on earth wouldn't I point out important things like weeks at #1 and Year End Championships?Only quoting the few things that Djokovic leads Nadal with. How obvious
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Well you stated that Nadal "owns" him in career achievements so why on earth wouldn't I point out important things like weeks at #1 and Year End Championships?
Valid point. Not to forget, Djokovic held all four at the same time.
But somehow some fans don't count weeks nr.1 and WTF titles as achievements, that's the problem.
kevaninho
Hall of Fame
Theyre achievements, in the same that anything won is an achievement.
Did anyone care about the YEC before Djokovic started winning it a lot?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Yes.
Did anyone care about tennis, before Fed started winning a lot?
Ichabod Pinkerton
Banned
Julian Houston
Semi-Pro
His agility..he is faster and more lightweight than Nadal and Federer yet packs power when pushing.
This freaks out Nadal a lot because he uses intimidation through being fittest player in tour.
This freaks out Nadal a lot because he uses intimidation through being fittest player in tour.
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
That is 100% true..
Djokovic can not match any of fed's longetivity, level maintenance etc... He was worn out in just 5 and a half years (2011 to mid 2016) whereas fed is still creating magic on court (2003 to --- and counting)
And that is why fed is goat and not djok....
And H2H favours djok because most fedovic meetings took place in djok's peak years
But that was not my point...
All I want to say is, that peak fed was far far better than this 2017-18 fed (regardless of results)
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
"Just" five and a half years?
What about the four years prior to 2011?!
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
"Just" five and a half years?
They were not peak yeara imo....
Though djok was playing agressive tennis in 2007-08...
He should had maintained it
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
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