Let's make a Babolat Racquet arm friendly. Which model and how?

[matchpoints]

I have to use a Babolat racquet and I'm having lots of wrist, forearm, and elbow pain recently (playing with Luxilon 4g @40lbs on normal Pure Storm GT did the trick and made it way worse)

Which current model would you use and string setup? Lead tape? Silicone? Special stringing pattern? Grip size? Quit being a baby?

Recently got the new Pure Drive with Spiraltek SG 16g @ 35lbs and it feels harsh....easy for serving though. Went back to my older Pure Storm GT Tour with Spiraltek @ 30/34# and it felt better but the strings moved so much after an hour it got crazy. Tried Cyberflash 1.25mm at 25lbs and I hit well with it but again some elbow pain afterwards. Have tried Solinco Tour Bite 16L (30#) with Vanquish 16 (35#) and it was alright. Recently put in Solinco Barbwire 16 at 22# but after a few hours it's gotten sloppy.

I'm coaching everyday and have some hitting sessions here and there with 3.0 to Futures level players.

Taking time off is not an option at this point. I've been gripping the stick as loose as possible.

I'm currently thinking of Babolat Tonic 15L Natural Gut with stock Pure Strike VS Tour? How low can I go with natural gut? I can control low tensions nowadays.

 

[snoflewis]

Pure storm is one of the softest babolats ive hit with. Have you tried adding lead to it? I think the only softer racket if you have to hit babolat is the pure storm/control ltd

I also demoed both vs tour models and they're much worse than their predecessors imo. The pure strike vs tour is a tad stiffer as the specs state but less stable than the pure storm/control tour.

 

[NicoMK]

Take any Prince, Volkl or Pacific frame, paint it black and put the double line on the strings and that'll be it.

I've seen that the latest generation of Pure Drive and even the Pure Aero was softer... good luck. I'd switch if I could. Contract issue?

Maybe you also should consider switching to full multi...

 

[redmini]

If you’re ‘stuck’ with babolats the latest pure aero might be the best bet of the current range. Not tried it yet but the reviews seem to be much more positive on comfort than is usual for babolats. Otherwise : Pure Drive is very stiff and fairly notorious for arm problems, pure strike has a rep for delayed arm problems (ie deceptively stiff despite the RA - many posts on TT attest to this). Dunno re the Pure Aero VS but the original one (Aero storms) were pretty stiff and boardy, I found, and I think there hasn’t been much changed apart from paint and making it lighter since. The pure strike VS is the equivalent to the Pure Storm and more recently the Pure Control. I remember trying one last winter and although flexible it wasn’t very stable and lacked so much power it felt i had to swing so hard I thought I’d be dislocating my shoulder! Even using a hybrid string bed. And I’m a fan of low powered frames!


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[Nostradamus]

new pure aero and use Volkl cyclone tour string

 

[Sambuccashake]

What do you mean by "Have to use Babolat"? Sponsorship reason?
If you are sponsored you should be able to access som flexy pro stock.

I don't think they offer a current standard market version that is flexy.

 

[Tommy Haas]

The old red Pure Control surprisingly had a sub 60 RA. Babolat phased it out and went all in with stiff frames (70+ RA). If you have a stiff Babolat and don't baby your frames and had the cash, you can have someone restring it a hundred times to break down the graphite fibers. That will soften it up. You can also leave it in a hot car for a week which will break down the resins further softening it up. Most manufacturers use more resin than high modulus graphite because resin is a lot cheaper. Resin is basically glue.

 

[JustTennis76]

Why do you “have to use Babolat”? Are you sponsored or your club has some restrictions or is it more personal for you? Can you use a older Babolat model? The ones I have owned in the past were Pure Control Tour, pure storm Ltd GT, I consider them as arm friendly. I recently read in the tennis magazine that the new Pure Drive VS is supposed to be somewhat flexible. Good luck.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Babolat Pure Aero 2019 with Tonic/4G soft hybrid.

But really if you have arm problems with a Pure Storm GT then Babolat may not be the choice for you. AS others mentioned, getting a Prince Phantom and painting it with Babolat stripes is your best bet.

I loved my Babolat Pure Drive but after 2 years of TE and searching for arm friendly setups I'll never use those rackets again.

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

I remember a box beam Babolat of mid-or-late-90ies ... similar to Head's Prestige.
Last Babolat racquet that didn't kill you arm lol

 

[Crocodile]

Well, if you can find a Pro Kennex Destiny or Laver Heritage you basically have the design of the Babolat there and then you can do the Babolat Paint job. The Destiny originally had 3 versions, Composite ( Green then blue versions ), Ceramic ( Red) and Graphite (black) the Laver was grey with some blue on it. These racquets were very comfortable, particularly the composite.
The other option is the Babolat Soft a Drive, or. contest frames. The soft drive needs customisation but the contest ( white one) is similar to the mold that Kim Chlisters had without the woofer system.
Finally as mentioned before on this thread, the Pure Storm ( Orange and black) is a beauty. I wish all these frames were still available.

 

[TennisHound]

In all honesty, the new '18 PD has never given me any arm problems, even with added lead in the hoop. I'm not sure if its the grommets, or something else they did to it.

 

[Kevo]

If you can get a PureControl 95 or Pure Storm Ltd that is a nice comfy frame. I still have the PC95. Sold my PSLs last year. I don't plan on letting the PC95s go anytime soon. I don't think you can get that frame mold from Babolat anymore on the retail market though. Seems they went away from the classic thin beam players' frames.

 

[Lukhas]

I don't think you can get that frame mold from Babolat anymore on the retail market though. Seems they went away from the classic thin beam players' frames.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, they renamed it Pure Strike VS.

 

[bogdan101]

A more flexible racquet is not necessarily easier on the arm; one of my most comfy frames is the PD Tour strung with poly around 50 lb, and I do have TE. Just stay away from light 18x20 racquets.

 

[mike schiffer]

I have to use a Babolat racquet and I'm having lots of wrist, forearm, and elbow pain recently (playing with Luxilon 4g @40lbs on normal Pure Storm GT did the trick and made it way worse)

Which current model would you use and string setup? Lead tape? Silicone? Special stringing pattern? Grip size? Quit being a baby?

Recently got the new Pure Drive with Spiraltek SG 16g @ 35lbs and it feels harsh....easy for serving though. Went back to my older Pure Storm GT Tour with Spiraltek @ 30/34# and it felt better but the strings moved so much after an hour it got crazy. Tried Cyberflash 1.25mm at 25lbs and I hit well with it but again some elbow pain afterwards. Have tried Solinco Tour Bite 16L (30#) with Vanquish 16 (35#) and it was alright. Recently put in Solinco Barbwire 16 at 22# but after a few hours it's gotten sloppy.

I'm coaching everyday and have some hitting sessions here and there with 3.0 to Futures level players.

Taking time off is not an option at this point. I've been gripping the stick as loose as possible.

I'm currently thinking of Babolat Tonic 15L Natural Gut with stock Pure Strike VS Tour? How low can I go with natural gut? I can control low tensions nowadays.

Youve got a sensitivity towards poly string....lose that poly first off....best soft string is gut of course....cheaper and very good is Mantis Comfort Synthetic.....Babolats are very harsh on the arm,,,,your asking a something of them they are not capable of being

 

[Kevo]

As mentioned earlier in this thread, they renamed it Pure Strike VS.

That frame seems to have a slightly different head shape, a thicker beam, and is a bit stiffer as well. Also doesn't appear to be available in an 18x20.

 

[Lukhas]

That frame seems to have a slightly different head shape, a thicker beam, and is a bit stiffer as well. Also doesn't appear to be available in an 18x20.

Because it's not the Ltd/95 that was indeed discontinued, but it's the same racquet line. Now, how much of it is left with all the modifications throughout the last 25 years is another debate entirely...

 

[penguin]

Get a junior racquet and have it extended?

 

[LocNetMonster]

I had a real bad case of TE after using Prince Beast 16g back when I first started. This was before I started stringing my own sticks. I played it for too many weeks - okay months - and paid the price. It was so bad I could barely grip the steering wheel while driving. I took a week off from playing and played sparingly for another two.

IMHO, get a couple of Pure Control 98s and weight them to your preferred balance above 13 oz adding weight to the head (3/9) and handle. Buy them one grip size smaller than your normal size. Build the grip back up with overgrips. After I did this to mine, I feel nothing in terms of shock, even on volleys from a line drive from the baseline. Strung them with Kevlar at 80# and with the added mass it was just as comfortable has hitting with Sgut.

If you lived nearby, I'd let you try mine. I think you would like it once you adjusted to the added mass.

 

[mike schiffer]

I buy all my racquets with 2 size smaller grips and use thick gel backed Gamma grips to also help insulate me from bad vibrations....did I mention...ditch the poly..

 

[el__zopilote]

An effective way would be to transform the Babolat into cash by selling it, and then transforming the cash into a Phantom.

 

[max]

Well, if you can find a Pro Kennex Destiny or Laver Heritage you basically have the design of the Babolat there and then you can do the Babolat Paint job. The Destiny originally had 3 versions, Composite ( Green then blue versions ), Ceramic ( Red) and Graphite (black) the Laver was grey with some blue on it. These racquets were very comfortable, particularly the composite.
The other option is the Babolat Soft a Drive, or. contest frames. The soft drive needs customisation but the contest ( white one) is similar to the mold that Kim Chlisters had without the woofer system.
Finally as mentioned before on this thread, the Pure Storm ( Orange and black) is a beauty. I wish all these frames were still available.

I used to have a Composite Destiny back in the heyday of widebody racquets. Eventually sold it to a bloke in Australia. . . had to ship it from the ******* to there, across the planet.

 

[gazz1]

String it with elastic bands

 

[RanchDressing]

This thread is scary.

Any babolat is more than comfortable if it's properly weighted. Strings don't really matter. If poly is hurting you, you're probably taking the ball late.

Take your favorite looking babolat, stick 6-9 grams under the bumper, and another 6-9 grams under the trap door. Doesn't really matter how you do it. That will increase it's stability, reduce shock loading, and make the vibration go away at the same time. Not to mention, you might get something special on the ball.

Babolat gets a bad rep from people who really shouldn't be listened to.

 

[dnguyen]

Babolat should make 90si with 17-18mm with RA of 60, 16 x 19.

 

[matchpoints]

To answer some of the questions. I have a coaching contract in Canada and can't get stock frames nor paint jobs (although the pure strike paint job would be pretty easy to copy). I'm supposed to use a current model and also won't have access to the new Pure Drive VS for a couple more months.

I actually own a couple of Pure Storm Ltd (1 slightly used and 1 brand new) and I didn't end up using them back in the day because for some reason they were painful to serve with for me (caused elbow pain). Even tried lead tape to no avail. For everything else they were pretty awesome. Just lounging in my storage with other sticks now. (Any takers?)

I'll order a reel of Pro's Pro Hi Tec Multifibre (supposed to be the same as Mantis Comfort Synthetic) and give it a whirl with the Pure Aero with some weight.

Thank you everyone for their input.

 

[kaz]

To answer some of the questions. I have a coaching contract in Canada and can't get stock frames nor paint jobs (although the pure strike paint job would be pretty easy to copy). I'm supposed to use a current model and also won't have access to the new Pure Drive VS for a couple more months.

I actually own a couple of Pure Storm Ltd (1 slightly used and 1 brand new) and I didn't end up using them back in the day because for some reason they were painful to serve with for me (caused elbow pain). Even tried lead tape to no avail. For everything else they were pretty awesome. Just lounging in my storage with other sticks now. (Any takers?)

I'll order a reel of Pro's Pro Hi Tec Multifibre (supposed to be the same as Mantis Comfort Synthetic) and give it a whirl with the Pure Aero with some weight.

Thank you everyone for their input.

I might be interested. I don't know how to private message you though.

 

[Kevo]

This thread is scary.

Any babolat is more than comfortable if it's properly weighted. Strings don't really matter. If poly is hurting you, you're probably taking the ball late.

You say the thread is scary? Then you say strings don't really matter? If the poly hurts it's because you take the ball late?

Strings matter more than the frame in my estimation, but picking something right for you in both strings and frame is surely best.

But yeah, I would imagine you could give anybody pain by intentionally putting in the wrong strings at a too high tension. Strings are super important.

 

[RanchDressing]

You say the thread is scary? Then you say strings don't really matter? If the poly hurts it's because you take the ball late?

Strings matter more than the frame in my estimation, but picking something right for you in both strings and frame is surely best.

But yeah, I would imagine you could give anybody pain by intentionally putting in the wrong strings at a too high tension. Strings are super important.

If you have proper recoil weight, aka moment of inertia, or center of mass inertia you will be able to handle any string you imagine. When I used to work at TW the hot ticket suggestion for arm problems was any volkl frame. That's not because they have gel in the handle, but because the mass distribution facilitated a high recoil weight in proportion to the frame's swing weight.

High recoil weight reduces the initial shock felt, and then consequently reduces the vibration nodes. Realistically arm comfort is primarily a feel phenomenon. Not so much something that improves/reduces injury. But if you want to talk comfort, higher tensions and stiffer strings decrease dwell time (if all things held equal) and cause the impact to last a shorter duration... But this doesn't necessitate an increase in arm injury, at least not by any modern research done on the topic. You can reverse this increase in dwell time also by increasing swing weight, part of the suggestion I made. Increasing swing weight increases stability and increases dwell time.

I promise you this isn't my first rodeo with racquets, and arm problems. More comfortable racquets vs less comfort has the most to do with the mass distribution. I've found this to be true for hundreds of players. I'd gladly direct you to a video I made on the topic but alas I deleted it.

You can refer to your anecdotal experiences as much as you wish, but at the end of the day the physics don't lie. As a stringer, player, and someone who's setup/directed/recommended setups for more than a few hundred players now (many are happy many months later), I strongly suggest you don't choose your string off some perceived comfort offer. But rather for your performance needs. If you want a softer string for more power, great choice. But don't pick a softer string to attempt to quell some type of problem that won't be fixed by that. I've spent plenty on strings, have tried many strings, and still get strings sent to me to test. No string will fix your arm problem long term. On the day, it might feel better, but 6 months later you'll be in the same position or worse. Get a properly weighted racquet, that will help out with feel in the short term, and will facilitate proper mechanics much better. Then set your eyes on fixing the core issue.

If your arm is hurting after you play, as in a real injury, it's how you're hitting the ball that's the cause. How you hit the ball is related to how the racquet is setup, but that conversation goes far beyond this already long post.

 

[Kevo]

If you have proper recoil weight, aka moment of inertia, or center of mass inertia you will be able to handle any string you imagine.

I don't disagree with your mass argument or the point made about technique. The problem is that not everyone can swing a heavy frame well, and not everyone is going to have good technique. Performance needs for strings for most rec players are rather immaterial. They will play pretty much the same with whatever string happens to be in their frame.

I would've liked to see your video on the topic as I'm sure I could learn something from it, but I think saying strings don't matter is taking the argument too far. It's plainly obvious to anyone who's experimented with a variety of strings in a variety of racquets that they can make a substantial difference in the way a frame feels at impact. You can go all the way from cushy to jarring with no change to the frame other than the string installed in it.

 

[RanchDressing]

I don't disagree with your mass argument or the point made about technique. The problem is that not everyone can swing a heavy frame well, and not everyone is going to have good technique. Performance needs for strings for most rec players are rather immaterial. They will play pretty much the same with whatever string happens to be in their frame.

I would've liked to see your video on the topic as I'm sure I could learn something from it, but I think saying strings don't matter is taking the argument too far. It's plainly obvious to anyone who's experimented with a variety of strings in a variety of racquets that they can make a substantial difference in the way a frame feels at impact. You can go all the way from cushy to jarring with no change to the frame other than the string installed in it.

This is where we disagree.
Rod Cross's work on the double pendulum found that moving from 100g to 500g reduced speed by 22%. That's minuscule in relation to the radical change in weight, from way below average weight to way way above average weight. Where as he found increasing inertia (specifically swing weight) did reduce racquet head speed, but the interval he compared was approximately 20% increase in swing weight. That's literally going from a 320sw to a 384sw. Way bigger of a jump than anyone would ever suggest. We're talking about adding maybe 6 grams to the tip of the racquet, a small difference in sw but a huge jump in power/spin potential. I've tested this with several sub 3.0 players and across the board, consistently they not only didn't struggle with higher swing weights, but actually preferred them. Citing that the racquet felt heavier but they didn't feel it was hard to use. That's with swing weights from 345-360+.

In fact even in the Phys and Tech of tennis it's stated that recreational player's swing speeds are grooved and remain relatively un-effected.
Beyond that using the fact that some players will struggle initially with a heavier racquet is fundamentally the wrong mindset. If you take that approach we should discourage everyone from playing tennis; because initially they will be poor. The thing is long term adjusting to a heavier racquet, will have benefits in terms of peak potential for the player, encourage proper techniques (by giving enough force/stability for proper non swinging volleys for example, or allowing for proper technique on a heavy forehand).

The statement was contextual, meaning strings don't really matter for comfort, if you have proper weighting. You can encourage players to chase and spend on strings and restringing. But ultimately long term, encouraging players to increase weight and learn to use it, will be more beneficial. Both in terms of short term comfort and also performance. Switching to softer strings may provide a short term solution, on the day, but it comes at a cost in performance. And detracts from the real issues presented to us by how equipment has been marketed for the last 20+ years. Again, players should pick strings for what gives them the best performance, and that 100% includes their preference on feel. Not based off what people online tell them will help their arm. I mean I can give you several stories of customers while I did customer service returning to complain and seek new solutions for their arm problems. Trying different strings and lighter and lighter racquets. They'd call and ask for me by name, and I did my best to fit my employers expectations of how to advertise products. As a player who had arm problems, I can tell you, it's a waste of money and time.

 

[Subway Tennis]

To answer some of the questions. I have a coaching contract in Canada and can't get stock frames nor paint jobs (although the pure strike paint job would be pretty easy to copy). I'm supposed to use a current model and also won't have access to the new Pure Drive VS for a couple more months.

I actually own a couple of Pure Storm Ltd (1 slightly used and 1 brand new) and I didn't end up using them back in the day because for some reason they were painful to serve with for me (caused elbow pain). Even tried lead tape to no avail. For everything else they were pretty awesome. Just lounging in my storage with other sticks now. (Any takers?)

I'll order a reel of Pro's Pro Hi Tec Multifibre (supposed to be the same as Mantis Comfort Synthetic) and give it a whirl with the Pure Aero with some weight.

Thank you everyone for their input.

It's a shame that the Pure Control 98 is not still a current retail. I use this rack (the most recent production version) with full Volkl Cyclone (non tour) at 53lbs and it is like butter. Only thing I don't like about it is the 1 piece stringing is a pain.

 

[Lukhas]

It's a shame that the Pure Control 98 is not still a current retail.

But it is. They just gave it a stupid name that doesn't help anyone who didn't pay close attention figure out what it is. I mean, how are you supposed to figure out that the Pure Strike VS is essentially the same racquet (or at the very least, the same mould) as the previous generation of Pure Control? Same for the Pure Aero VS: no way to figure out that it's an Aero Storm by the name.

In my opinion, even if I understand the branding scheme, they should have kept the original names.

 

[Shroud]

Take any Prince, Volkl or Pacific frame, paint it black and put the double line on the strings and that'll be it.

I've seen that the latest generation of Pure Drive and even the Pure Aero was softer... good luck. I'd switch if I could. Contract issue?

Maybe you also should consider switching to full multi...

Sadly the angle doesnt show the inverted bar of this pog I plastidipped:

 

[Shroud]

If you have proper recoil weight, aka moment of inertia, or center of mass inertia you will be able to handle any string you imagine. When I used to work at TW the hot ticket suggestion for arm problems was any volkl frame. That's not because they have gel in the handle, but because the mass distribution facilitated a high recoil weight in proportion to the frame's swing weight.

High recoil weight reduces the initial shock felt, and then consequently reduces the vibration nodes. Realistically arm comfort is primarily a feel phenomenon. Not so much something that improves/reduces injury. But if you want to talk comfort, higher tensions and stiffer strings decrease dwell time (if all things held equal) and cause the impact to last a shorter duration... But this doesn't necessitate an increase in arm injury, at least not by any modern research done on the topic. You can reverse this increase in dwell time also by increasing swing weight, part of the suggestion I made. Increasing swing weight increases stability and increases dwell time.

I promise you this isn't my first rodeo with racquets, and arm problems. More comfortable racquets vs less comfort has the most to do with the mass distribution. I've found this to be true for hundreds of players. I'd gladly direct you to a video I made on the topic but alas I deleted it.

You can refer to your anecdotal experiences as much as you wish, but at the end of the day the physics don't lie. As a stringer, player, and someone who's setup/directed/recommended setups for more than a few hundred players now (many are happy many months later), I strongly suggest you don't choose your string off some perceived comfort offer. But rather for your performance needs. If you want a softer string for more power, great choice. But don't pick a softer string to attempt to quell some type of problem that won't be fixed by that. I've spent plenty on strings, have tried many strings, and still get strings sent to me to test. No string will fix your arm problem long term. On the day, it might feel better, but 6 months later you'll be in the same position or worse. Get a properly weighted racquet, that will help out with feel in the short term, and will facilitate proper mechanics much better. Then set your eyes on fixing the core issue.

If your arm is hurting after you play, as in a real injury, it's how you're hitting the ball that's the cause. How you hit the ball is related to how the racquet is setup, but that conversation goes far beyond this already long post.

TTPS and Ranch D back in the same day? Man what luck!!

Anyhow IMHO Mr. Dressing knows what he is talking about.

 

[travlerajm]

I agree that mass is a bigger factor than string type when it comes to arm comfort. Shortening a racquet is even a bigger factor in reducing shock.

 

[RanchDressing]

Sadly the angle doesnt show the inverted bar of this pog I plastidipped:

plastidip is fun. until you have to peel it off. then its time to just dump a can on it, so you have a chance to get it all off

 

[Subway Tennis]

But it is. They just gave it a stupid name that doesn't help anyone who didn't pay close attention figure out what it is. I mean, how are you supposed to figure out that the Pure Strike VS is essentially the same racquet (or at the very least, the same mould) as the previous generation of Pure Control? Same for the Pure Aero VS: no way to figure out that it's an Aero Storm by the name.

In my opinion, even if I understand the branding scheme, they should have kept the original names.

Wow, you're right, it's a very similar frame! Inattention on my part - I had always assumed all the strikes had a tapered beam style, and never even looked at the Strike VS models. Sorry I should've looked at your earlier posts. It's handy from my own standpoint for when I have to replace my current racks. It looks like even the drill pattern is quite similar.

 

[McLovin]

Wow, you're right, it's a very similar frame! Inattention on my part - I had always assumed all the strikes had a tapered beam style, and never even looked at the Strike VS models. Sorry I should've looked at your earlier posts. It's handy from my own standpoint for when I have to replace my current racks. It looks like even the drill pattern is quite similar.

Its not just similar...it is the Pure Control. Just like it was the Pure Control in 2001, then the Pure Storm, then back to Pure Control, then the Strike VS. It literally is the same mold...which is why the drill pattern isn't similar...its the same...because it is the Pure Control.

 

[Tsongham]

I actually have Pure Aero without strings waiting in my bag. I'm trying to make it more arm friendly than it is without modify. I'm thinking add synthetic grip and overgrip to it, 46lbs wilson Revolve strings and add 4g lead to 3 and 9. And 4g to handle.

Any comments of this trying?

 

[Centrius]

Currently the Pure Strike VS Tour is the most arm friendly Babolat frame straight from shelf.

 

[NicoMK]

Hey shroud great job but what is this racket that I don't recognise ooops?

 

[LocNetMonster]

The thing is long term adjusting to a heavier racquet, will have benefits in terms of peak potential for the player, encourage proper techniques (by giving enough force/stability for proper non swinging volleys for example, or allowing for proper technique on a heavy forehand).

From my own personal experience I totally agree with this statement. Playing with a heavier racquet balanced for my playing style, after hours of practice/trial&error, has taken my net play to a new level. I'd much rather come inside the baseline to play out a point then grind it from the baseline.

 

[LocNetMonster]

Its not just similar...it is the Pure Control. Just like it was the Pure Control in 2001, then the Pure Storm, then back to Pure Control, then the Strike VS. It literally is the same mold...which is why the drill pattern isn't similar...its the same...because it is the Pure Control.

May be I'm picky, but I think that might be a stretch. The VS is essentially the same, but not identical say to the older Pure Control 98 Team, which I love. It does definitely looks like the last iteration of the Pure Control, which I did not care for. Besides, the recommended tensions are lower on the VS and the grommet kits are not interchangeable from what I can tell. I think the older PC had much better control.

 

[Shroud]

Hey shroud great job but what is this racket that I don't recognise ooops?

Thanks man. Its a Prince Original Graphite mid. If the pict i took of the full racquet was around you could see the inverted bar in the throat. Its a dead give away.

 

[Kevo]

The statement was contextual, meaning strings don't really matter for comfort, if you have proper weighting. You can encourage players to chase and spend on strings and restringing.

Ok, I agree with you, but proper weighting is a big if. And you don't have to chase strings and restringing. A good majority of players will find a nice multi or softer syn gut to be a nice plush hit. It's an easy fix in equipment terms for many players. It obviously doesn't fix technique issues, or actual injuries, and it's not going to be a good fit necessarily for people that break strings easy, but those aren't the typical player with problems unless they are just stringing a poly way too tight or something.

Anyway, kudos for trying to get people to play with more substantial frames. I myself am enjoying playing some old school Rossignol sticks. My current frame of choice is the F230, but you've got me thinking about taking the F250 out for a spin again. It's about a 350 swing weight and I found it a little much for regular play, but maybe I'll go hit a few buckets of serves with it and see what happens. Maybe I'll take the F200 out as well. I'm pretty sure that one has the most substantial swing weight of any stick I own. I'll have to start lifting weights and drinking protein shakes if I want to mange that beast on serves. It's sure sweet on groundies though.

 

[McLovin]

May be I'm picky, but I think that might be a stretch. The VS is essentially the same, but not identical say to the older Pure Control 98 Team, which I love. It does definitely looks like the last iteration of the Pure Control, which I did not care for. Besides, the recommended tensions are lower on the VS and the grommet kits are not interchangeable from what I can tell. I think the older PC had much better control.

I never said they feel the same, just that they are the identical mold. And yes, the grommets from the Strike VS will fit all the way back to the Pure Control 2001 'Swirly'. Believe me, it is the exact same frame.

But, don't take my word for it...take @Babolat Official's word for it:

The Pure Strike VS is the same racket as the Pure Control. Only update is cosmetic. The Pure Strike VS Tour is the same as the Pure Control Tour, though with a new cosmetic.

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/babolat-pure-strike-vs.583500/post-10993253

 

[RanchDressing]

From my own personal experience I totally agree with this statement. Playing with a heavier racquet balanced for my playing style, after hours of practice/trial&error, has taken my net play to a new level. I'd much rather come inside the baseline to play out a point then grind it from the baseline.

I think that part of the conversation is the most interesting, and want to focus on it the most, but there's still so much misunderstood about the weight that needs to be ironed out.

 

[RanchDressing]

Ok, I agree with you, but proper weighting is a big if. And you don't have to chase strings and restringing. A good majority of players will find a nice multi or softer syn gut to be a nice plush hit. It's an easy fix in equipment terms for many players. It obviously doesn't fix technique issues, or actual injuries, and it's not going to be a good fit necessarily for people that break strings easy, but those aren't the typical player with problems unless they are just stringing a poly way too tight or something.

Anyway, kudos for trying to get people to play with more substantial frames. I myself am enjoying playing some old school Rossignol sticks. My current frame of choice is the F230, but you've got me thinking about taking the F250 out for a spin again. It's about a 350 swing weight and I found it a little much for regular play, but maybe I'll go hit a few buckets of serves with it and see what happens. Maybe I'll take the F200 out as well. I'm pretty sure that one has the most substantial swing weight of any stick I own. I'll have to start lifting weights and drinking protein shakes if I want to mange that beast on serves. It's sure sweet on groundies though.

I don't really have a problem with multi or gut, if that's what a player likes. It doesn't have the spin ability, but you can still hit the ball plenty hard with it. Realistically most stock frame users don't really need super tight/stiff poly like they like but... that's a complex thing to look at.

I think for the serve, this is just my opinion, it's best to go slow, like half a bucket. And to focus on strengthening your rotator cuff first. The higher swing weights can be harder to slow down once you get up to speed. My rotator cuff subluxed my humeral head a lot and just ground down my labrum and that was a difficult injury to get on top of. Mainly because my range of motion was stupid on strokes and serves. But that whole ounce of prevention thing...

Also when you use a continental grip, you can just choke up a little bit. So for volleys and serves. Keep your pinky maybe closer to the top of the buttcap, and that effectively reduces the swing weight (if it's causing problems). You can find some of the top pro's use a slightly choked up grip on serve and or volleys. The thing is on the serve swing weight can certainly help, but you can still hit a big enough serve with less swing weight (since the ball has basically no momentum/kinetic energy on it that you have to hit through).