Let's not make tennis complicated.
- Thread starter Steady Eddy
- Start date
Steady Eddy
Legend
Only because the multi-talented Sid Vicious died young. The good die young, I guess.
This is to remind us of the talent he had.
ByeByePoly
Talk Tennis Guru
Let's not make rock music complicated. 
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
Yes it seems if we take the idea of bruce lees "6 inch punch" and apply it to tennis, thats where the moneys at.I think @r2473 said this. There would be no problem learning a stroke with an abbreviated backswing, but big problem with abbreviated follow through. You see beginner golfers try to guide drives off the tee by trying to control the swing through contact (bunt). Hence the expression ... trust your swing. The racquet and club have to square at contact, and nothing will match the repeatability of "trust your swing".
I would throw out one "complexity" in the idea of a rec player keeping their swing simple. For example, take a male 4 .0s FH. What would be their most simple repeatable fh ... a McEnroe, a Keys, a Goffin, a Federer? That becomes a complex question immediately. The most repeatable swing would be flat continental grip from pointing racquet at back fence no lag. Any swing with big lag (forearm/racquet) right before contact is a massive timing/repeatable element added to the swing. An easy way to say it is flat swings are more repeatable than low to high swings. The problem is that isn't the same as defining what is the "getting the ball in" most repeatable. You can't answer "what is the best fh stroke for a 4.0 player" without first answering "what style of play".
I came to the conclusion 99% of rec adult players ... say 4.5 and lower would never need the late huge lag (flip) at their level. Said another way, no adult rec player needs a FH beyond a typical WTA FH. It actually sounds ridiculous to say out loud you need a technique beyond Madison Keys.I love me some ridiculous ... so I tried some flip. You could extend the question and ask would most rec 4.0 males end up as better players with racquet to back fence (Mac) FHs with cont/eastern grip, or "more modern". Do you end up a better 4.0 with better target control with less spin, or a game with more spin and all the benefits that come with the spin. I think it's your goals with spin and not pace that should guide your "what's my simplest most repeatable".
I don't find the terms "pusher" or "pushing" very useful, but questions:
Isn't high spinny shots high over the net to "anywhere in" a form of pushing?
Is "pushing" measured by 1) how a stroke looks ... or 2) where the stroke lands ... or 3) pace?
A really small backswing (really just a unit turn and no backswing) = steady contact point. Steady player. Can hit on the rise shots frequently enough.
A really small backswing + good follow through = player has used core to drive the stroke and has enough pace and on the rise ability to punch through most players when combined with decent tennis iq. Nothing more required
ByeByePoly
Talk Tennis Guru
Don't get carried away ... talking teaching aid not endpoint.
I was thinking about rec player FHs, and it occurred to me a bad/late flip fh will likely be weaker than a bad old style racquet to back fence fh. Even a nipples to the net old style all arm would have the long racquet head path to contact. When you blow the late lag release from a shorter swing you end up with a very weak tea fh. I didn't like the late big lag, but did like "some" lag, and keeping the hand on the hitting side of body (avoid going behind back with hand). My compromise was the hand pretty much all the way back, but not behind.
Even if a rec player was shooting for late big lag (flip), imo most would have better odds with a Potro type than a Fed type.
I am not sure if a McEnroe fh or Potro fh is more complicated.
Bobs tennis
Semi-Pro
Reading thru this thread I constantly see reference to elite players. What is an elite player. Is he 4.5 or maybe 5.0. Watching the show on hbo about Bollettieri, now those are elite players. I won't give my guess of the percentage of players on this forum that fit into the word "elite". I am constantly trying to improve but sometimes at the cost of what I already can do and that becomes a problem. If a player is a young junior and has lots of time and money then he can strive for that level but probably doesn't have time to come on this forum. Recently I had an injury and couldn't play for 3 months. When I came back I realized how much I missed the game. I feel I agree with the original poster.
ByeByePoly
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, I think the adult player has to be wise about their changes to there game. That would be same if the suggested change came from a coach, a youtube video or ttw poster. Sometimes no change will be the exact right choice for a player. That said, I don't agree with the idea that there is no value in posts here for the average adult rec player. Some things like better unit turn, stance options, footwork/split step are pretty much low risk no-brainers. Also, if you get good input on something you were already planning on ... kick serve, 2hbh, etc. ... I have found it useful to pool that learing curve with players in the middle of the same thing. I would also put anything that has a chance to reduce impact on the body in the "useful" bucket. For example, maybe the right serve tip moves you away from a current technique that is putting strain on your shoulder.
Yes, there is much discussion about elite stuff that is simply irrelevant for most rec players. The trick is selecting useful information (if any) for yourself. Some of it you can experiment with without mastering it to see if it is right for you. I think it's smart to rule out dead ends early, because as you said, you take a step back for a while making the change.
Some believe a coach is the only way to learn/change ... not sure why they spend so much time here. Good company I guess.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Good question what is an elite player? It depends on how good you are and what kind of players you are around. For most rec players 5.0 level would be elite I would think.
ByeByePoly
Talk Tennis Guru
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
>5.0 ... Open $ division, current D1 and the best of ex-D1 under 40.
elite=2 levels above where the definer is
ByeByePoly
Talk Tennis Guru
So context matters.
Here is an easy definition:
If you traveled to get to the match, and someone other than the players on your court pays you $ after your match, you might be elite.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
This is very true. Play the game do your best and have fun.
Bobs tennis
Semi-Pro
Don't get me wrong There is a lot of good tips and ideas on this forum.Yes, I think the adult player has to be wise about their changes to there game. That would be same if the suggested change came from a coach, a youtube video or ttw poster. Sometimes no change will be the exact right choice for a player. That said, I don't agree with the idea that there is no value in posts here for the average adult rec player. Some things like better unit turn, stance options, footwork/split step are pretty much low risk no-brainers. Also, if you get good input on something you were already planning on ... kick serve, 2hbh, etc. ... I have found it useful to pool that learing curve with players in the middle of the same thing. I would also put anything that has a chance to reduce impact on the body in the "useful" bucket. For example, maybe the right serve tip moves you away from a current technique that is putting strain on your shoulder.
Yes, there is much discussion about elite stuff that is simply irrelevant for most rec players. The trick is selecting useful information (if any) for yourself. Some of it you can experiment with without mastering it to see if it is right for you. I think it's smart to rule out dead ends early, because as you said, you take a step back for a while making the change.
Some believe a coach is the only way to learn/change ... not sure why they spend so much time here. Good company I guess.
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Steady Eddy
Legend
Maybe it means over 3.5. Definitely it means anyone over 4.0. That's my opinion.
