Lets Play: Make the GOAT

F

Fedfan34

Guest
An alien invasion has occurred. They are placing the fate of the planet on ONE tennis match.

You have to engineer a player who has the shots of previous players from tennis history to go up against the alien champion. You are allowed to take ONE shot/aspect of game from a single player. For example, you cannot say Backhand Slice: Federer, Forehand: Federer.

So, from whom is your player constructed?

Clarification: First and Second serve can be taken as either one shot or two, your choice. Similarly, you may break down "volleys" into forehand or backhand volley, or simply say "volleys" of a certain player. You may NOT do this with groundies.

My "Champion" to Save Planet Earth:
First Serve: Ivanisevic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Djokovic
Backhand: Agassi
Forehand: Nadal
Slice: Ken Rosewall
Movement: Federer
Footspeed: Chang
Reflexes: McEnroe
Consistency: Borg
Drop Shot: Laver
Power: Soderling
Mental Strength: Lendl

Whose shots do YOUR champion have?
 

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Serving: Roddick
Volleys: Sampras
Baseline: Agassi
Backhand: Edberg
Forehand: Federer
Slice: Nadal
Movement: Djokovic
Drop Shot: McEnroe
Power: Safin
Mental Strength: Connors
 

90's Clay

Banned
First Serve: Pancho
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Borg
Backhand: Agassi
Forehand: Nadal
Slice: Rosewall
Movement: Borg
Footspeed: Chang
Reflexes: Laver
Consistency: Laver
Drop Shot: Laver
Power: Sampras
Mental Strength: Sampras
 
First Serve: Pancho
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Borg
Backhand: Agassi
Forehand: Nadal
Slice: Rosewall
Movement: Borg
Footspeed: Chang
Reflexes: Laver
Consistency: Laver
Drop Shot: Laver
Power: Sampras
Mental Strength: Sampras

Nadal is mentally stronger than Sampras.
 
Yea Maybe.. Its easier to have mental strength when you got a GOAT serve in your back pocket though :)



I have no problems with anyone putting Rafa above Sampras as far as mental toughness goes.

You forgot to put Federer down for any of the attributes. He has to be GOAT at something, right?
 

90's Clay

Banned
You forgot to put Federer down for any of the attributes. He has to be GOAT at something, right?


Arguable GOAT Forehand with Nadal. Outside of that.. Can't think of one aspect of his game that Fed is GOAT at.

Hes great at a lot of things. But GOAT in one thing? Arguably the forehand. But again you can argue Nadal's FH is just as great
 

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Nadal is mentally stronger than Sampras.

Sampras' Grand Slam Finals Record: 14-4

He lost 2 of those past the age of 28.

Nadal's Grand Slam Finals Record: 14-6

He just turned 28 before the end of this year's French Open. Let's see.


Say what you will about Sampras winning several of his titles against forgotten opponents but in the Finals he was GOLD. He went 12-1 from his 2nd U.S. Open Final to his loss to Safin. His 1 blemish was the Agassi match in Australia.
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
If it is just one aspect from someone....

First Serve- Karlovic
Second Serve- Sampras
Backhand Volley- Edberg
Forehand Volley- McEnroe
Forehand- Federer
Backhand- Djokovic
Slice- Rosewall
Movement- Borg
Footspeed- Chang
Drop Shot- Coria
Power- Soderling
Reflexes- Laver
Mental Strength- Nadal
 
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Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
Serving: Ivanisevic
Volleys: Mcenroe
Return: Djokovic
Backhand: Edberg
Forehand: Del Potro
Slice: Federer
Movement: Borg
Footspeed: Nadal
Reflexes: Agassi
Consistency: Connors
Drop Shot: Murray
Power: Tsonga
Mental Strength: Lendl
 
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FedTheMan

Professional
Arguable GOAT Forehand with Nadal. Outside of that.. Can't think of one aspect of his game that Fed is GOAT at.

Hes great at a lot of things. But GOAT in one thing? Arguably the forehand. But again you can argue Nadal's FH is just as great

Bro, I know that you hate Roger but I saw you post many times that if Fed had great competition then he would not have even HALF his slams. Do you actually believe this? I mean half of 17 is 8.5 and you believe that he might not even have had 8 slams. I think it is pretty clear that Roger is a greater player than Novak, Agassi, Connors, Lendl, etc and these guys all got to that number or are within reach. You know that Federer of 2005 or any of his peak years was a formidable force in all the slams and he would have 99% won the final yesterday. Players like Roger don't come around often and you can see his skill throughout his game and how he plays the baseline differently than other baseliners. I mean he used the 90sq in for years and was the only one in the top 50 with that racquet. Federer and Sampras are very similar so try to enjoy both.
 

90's Clay

Banned
Bro, I know that you hate Roger but I saw you post many times that if Fed had great competition then he would not have even HALF his slams. Do you actually believe this? I mean half of 17 is 8.5 and you believe that he might not even have had 8 slams. I think it is pretty clear that Roger is a greater player than Novak, Agassi, Connors, Lendl, etc and these guys all got to that number or are within reach. You know that Federer of 2005 or any of his peak years was a formidable force in all the slams and he would have 99% won the final yesterday. Players like Roger don't come around often and you can see his skill throughout his game and how he plays the baseline differently than other baseliners. I mean he used the 90sq in for years and was the only one in the top 50 with that racquet. Federer and Sampras are very similar so try to enjoy both.


Do I believe that if he had to deal with 2011-present Djoker and 2008-present Nadal all through the tour on all surfaces instead of Roddick, Hewitt, Davydenko, etc? Of course I do. 2011-present Nole and 2008-present all surface Nadal are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the 2004-2007 crowd and there is no debating this.


He could beat Roddick in his sleep.. Beating all surface Nole and prime Nadal.. obviously a different story my man.


You really think Fed would be mopping up 3 slams a year with no resistance like he did in 2004-2007? Gimme a break.
 
F

Fedfan34

Guest
First Serve: Pancho
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Borg
Backhand: Agassi
Forehand: Nadal
Slice: Rosewall
Movement: Borg
Footspeed: Chang
Reflexes: Laver
Consistency: Laver
Drop Shot: Laver
Power: Sampras
Mental Strength: Sampras

You may choose ONE aspect from a single player. You have chosen more than one aspect from a single player more than one time.

You have been ejected from the Program. Last time I ask you to save the world!
 
F

Fedfan34

Guest
The goal of just choosing one aspect from a single player is to challenge us to think more about past players and thereby increase our appreciation and respect for tennis history. Some people can only love the present at the expense of denigrating greats from former eras. Its also to stop fanboys from putting Federer, Nadal, or Sampras for every single category.

For example, my favorite player is Federer. But I didn't put him for what arguably might be his greatest shot: the forehand. Instead, I chose his movement, because there is another forehand which is arguably in the same league as his (Nadal) yet in my opinion, nobody moves as smoothly, precisely, and effortlessly as Fed.
 

BringBackSV

Hall of Fame
Do I believe that if he had to deal with 2011-present Djoker and 2008-present Nadal all through the tour on all surfaces instead of Roddick, Hewitt, Davydenko, etc? Of course I do. 2011-present Nole and 2008-present all surface Nadal are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the 2004-2007 crowd and there is no debating this.


He could beat Roddick in his sleep.. Beating all surface Nole and prime Nadal.. obviously a different story my man.


You really think Fed would be mopping up 3 slams a year with no resistance like he did in 2004-2007? Gimme a break.

He would have less yes but he's still a good bit better than Novak overall and more versatile than Rafa.
 

FedTheMan

Professional
Do I believe that if he had to deal with 2011-present Djoker and 2008-present Nadal all through the tour on all surfaces instead of Roddick, Hewitt, Davydenko, etc? Of course I do. 2011-present Nole and 2008-present all surface Nadal are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the 2004-2007 crowd and there is no debating this.


He could beat Roddick in his sleep.. Beating all surface Nole and prime Nadal.. obviously a different story my man.


You really think Fed would be mopping up 3 slams a year with no resistance like he did in 2004-2007? Gimme a break.

Alright so if it was Novak, Nadal and Federer in their primes at the same time (ie. they are the same age) then they would all take slams from each other. Novak would reign over AO, Nadal over RG, Fed over Wimby and all would fight at the USO, IMO. Everyone acts like Fed would never beat Nadal at a slam if they were the same age but Nadal only won Wimby twice and has gotten worse so he would have like a 5 year window but Federer and Novak would give him stiff competition there. RG, of course Nadal would win all of them most likely. AO, Djokovic would be very very hard to beat and maybe Fed or Nadal would win one or two after Djoko declined a bit. USO: Fed is the best hard court player maybe ever and he would have a chance to beat Rafa here in his prime as well as Novak so probably Fed wins the most here.

So lets say if these 3 played at the same age for a prime of 8 years. age:21-29 then the results would be IMO:

AO- Djoko (5), Fed (2), Nadal (1)
RG- Nadal (8 ) maybe Fed or Novak win one if Nadal has a weird loss
Wimby- Fed(6), Nadal(1), Djoko (1)
USO-Fed(4), Djoko (2), Nadal(2)

So total slams would be: Fed(12), Nadal(12), Djoko (8 ). I think that these numbers are reasonable and shows that Fedal are better players than Djoko and that Fed would still have great chances to win double digits slams with two of the greatest players against him.
 
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helloworld

Hall of Fame
An alien invasion has occurred. They are placing the fate of the planet on ONE tennis match.

You have to engineer a player who has the shots of previous players from tennis history to go up against the alien champion. You are allowed to take ONE shot/aspect of game from a single player. For example, you cannot say Backhand Slice: Federer, Forehand: Federer.

So, from whom is your player constructed?

Clarification: First and Second serve can be taken as either one shot or two, your choice. Similarly, you may break down "volleys" into forehand or backhand volley, or simply say "volleys" of a certain player. You may NOT do this with groundies.

My "Champion" to Save Planet Earth:
First Serve: Ivanisevic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Djokovic
Backhand: Agassi
Forehand: Nadal
Slice: Ken Rosewall
Movement: Federer
Footspeed: Chang
Reflexes: McEnroe
Consistency: Borg
Drop Shot: Laver
Power: Soderling
Mental Strength: Lendl

Whose shots do YOUR champion have?

You do realize Lendl lost in 11 grand slam finals?? Do you want him to save the world when he can't even manage to win grand slam finals?
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
I see a lot going for Rosewall for slice. I wanted to use Federer forehand, but picked his slice.

I started watching tennis in the late 80's and I had the Wimbledon finals from Borg onwards on video. I've seen a good bit of Borg, McEnroe and Connors, but never watched Rosewall. At least I can't remember watching him

Lets just hope Del Potro forehand is up to the task of saving the world.
 

helloworld

Hall of Fame
I would love to see your list :)

First Serve: Ivanisevic or Karlovic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Djokovic
Backhand: Agassi
Forehand: Nadal
Slice: Federer
Movement: Nadal
Footspeed: Hewitt
Reflexes: McEnroe
Consistency: Borg
Drop Shot: Federer
Power: Lendl
Mental Strength: Sampras
 

helloworld

Hall of Fame
lol

I went with him as well. My thinking was because he managed to win grandslams after losing his first four.
I'd be so scared if Lendl is our choice to save the world, lol. He lost the majority of slam finals with only 40% conversion rate. My bet to save the world would be guys with impressive grand slam finals record like Sampras or Nadal.
 

Mick

Legend
Send Sharapova out.

Maybe the alien cannot handle her 100+ decibels high pitch shriek like in the twilight zone zone episode where the aliens cannot handle the sound from a harmonica :)
 

helloworld

Hall of Fame
First Serve: Ivanisevic or Karlovic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Djokovic
Backhand: Agassi
Forehand: Nadal
Slice: Federer
Movement: Nadal
Footspeed: Hewitt
Reflexes: McEnroe
Consistency: Borg
Drop Shot: Federer
Power: Lendl
Mental Strength: Sampras
I just saw that OP allow only 1 player per shot, so let me revise my list. :)

First Serve: Ivanisevic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Djokovic
Backhand: Agassi
Forehand: Federer
Slice: Rosewall
Movement: Nadal(especially on clay)
Footspeed: Hewitt
Reflexes: McEnroe
Consistency: Borg
Drop Shot: Laver
Power: Lendl
Mental Strength: Nadal
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
Arguable GOAT Forehand with Nadal. Outside of that.. Can't think of one aspect of his game that Fed is GOAT at.

Winning.

Also movement.

And I'd put his forehand against anyone's. People that want to correctly point out that Fed has had a tendency in the past few years to shank it should note he's just about 33 years and Borg, one of the all time great forehands, used to shank it with regularity, in his prime.
 

90's Clay

Banned
Winning.

Also movement.

And I'd put his forehand against anyone's. People that want to correctly point out that Fed has had a tendency in the past few years to shank it should note he's just about 33 years and Borg, one of the all time great forehands, used to shank it with regularity, in his prime.



Winning- Arguable. Laver, Pancho, Rosewall were big time winners too. Laver has 200 tourney titles. Fed doesn't have even have that. So how is Fed the biggest winner ever??


There is a lot of great movers in history. I don't know if there is a clear cut greatest mover. I don't think Fed is a better mover than Borg was for instance.


I'll still probably take Nadal's FH over' Fed's . All these years later and Nadal's Forehand is probably still the deadliest weapon on tour. While Fed's has decline massively since his peak days
 

mightyrick

Legend
First Serve: Sampras
Second Serve: Isner
Volleys: Rafter
Return: Agassi
Backhand: Djokovic
Forehand: Nadal
Slice: Graf
Movement: Borg
Footspeed: Chang
Reflexes: McEnroe
Consistency: Gonzales
Drop Shot: Federer
Power: Soderling
Mental Strength: S. Williams

I had to include Serena Williams and Steffi Graf. Serena's mental strength is so powerful, she practically murders people merely by thought alone. Graf's slice represents itself. (Yes, I believe Graf's slice was better than Rosewall's).
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
Winning- Arguable. Laver, Pancho, Rosewall were big time winners too. Laver has 200 tourney titles. Fed doesn't have even have that. So how is Fed the biggest winner ever??


There is a lot of great movers in history. I don't know if there is a clear cut greatest mover. I don't think Fed is a better mover than Borg was for instance.


I'll still probably take Nadal's FH over' Fed's . All these years later and Nadal's Forehand is probably still the deadliest weapon on tour. While Fed's has decline massively since his peak days

On point one, there's been many threads on the topic so I can't really add anything other than I go with the Fed crowd.

On point two much the same but I'll add I think Fed is a better mover than Borg. Borg couldn't even move past 25-ish. I'm not being completely facetious either. Fed is, IMO, not only the better mover prime to prime but Fed is still among the best movers at 33. It's remarkable to me. He's simply a better tennis player than BB was. With the proviso that this is an inter-generational comparison which I'm already on the record as thinking doesn't make much sense. The game has changed too much.

If you mean today, no question Fed's forehand let's him down like it did not in his prime. Nadal's is better but that isn't surprising to me given the age difference. I thought you meant peak v. peak. I go with Fed's.
 

Ace of Aces

Semi-Pro
First Serve: Karlovic
Second Serve: Isner
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Agassi
Backhand: Murray
Forehand: F Gonzalez
Slice: Federer
Movement: Nadal
Footspeed: Monfils
Reflexes: McEnroe
Consistency: Davydenko
Drop Shot: Janowicz
Power: Blake or Del Potro (both produce ground strokes that must be viewed in slo-mo to see)
Mental Strength: Sampras
 

RF20Lennon

Legend
First Serve: Ivanisevic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Djokovic
Backhand: Djokovic
Forehand: Federer
Slice: Laver
Movement: Nadal
Footspeed: Monfils
Reflexes: McEnroe
Consistency: Borg
Drop Shot: Melzer
Power: Soderling
Mental Strength: Nadal
 
F

Fedfan34

Guest
Send Sharapova out.

Maybe the alien cannot handle her 100+ decibels high pitch shriek like in the twilight zone zone episode where the aliens cannot handle the sound from a harmonica :)

Good point, but then again, they might just decide to call off the match and conquer us if we do that.
 

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
I see a lot going for Rosewall for slice. I wanted to use Federer forehand, but picked his slice.

I started watching tennis in the late 80's and I had the Wimbledon finals from Borg onwards on video. I've seen a good bit of Borg, McEnroe and Connors, but never watched Rosewall. At least I can't remember watching him

Lets just hope Del Potro forehand is up to the task of saving the world.

Poisoned Slice, Rosewall had the better slice because it was a mixture of slice and fast drive and mostly offensive. Federer has a strict defensive slice.
 

mydogsparty

New User
I'll give it a try...

First Serve: Ivanisevic
Second Serve: Sampras
Return: Connors

Approach Shot: McEnroe
Backhand Volley: Edberg
Forehand Volley: Rafter

Forehand: Federer
Backhand: Djokovic
Slice: Rosewall
Drop Shot: Laver

Movement: Borg
Footspeed: Chang
Reflexes: Cash

Consistency: Lendl
Power: Agassi
Mental Strength: Nadal
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
There is a lot of great movers in history. I don't know if there is a clear cut greatest mover. I don't think Fed is a better mover than Borg was for instance.

I can't tell you have many times I saw Borg play. A lot. Bjorn Borg never did this ! In a GS semi no less.

Incidentally, the reason I zoomed in quickly was to cut off the guy (dummy) in front of me who sat for the entire match and decided the time to get up and leave was three points from the end. Good timing schmoo. You only missed one of the all time great shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToPN5f5ocE8
 

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
An alien invasion has occurred. They are placing the fate of the planet on ONE tennis match.

You have to engineer a player who has the shots of previous players from tennis history to go up against the alien champion. You are allowed to take ONE shot/aspect of game from a single player. For example, you cannot say Backhand Slice: Federer, Forehand: Federer.

So, from whom is your player constructed?

Clarification: First and Second serve can be taken as either one shot or two, your choice. Similarly, you may break down "volleys" into forehand or backhand volley, or simply say "volleys" of a certain player. You may NOT do this with groundies.

My "Champion" to Save Planet Earth:
First Serve: Ivanisevic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Djokovic
Backhand: Agassi
Forehand: Nadal
Slice: Ken Rosewall
Movement: Federer
Footspeed: Chang
Reflexes: McEnroe
Consistency: Borg
Drop Shot: Laver
Power: Soderling
Mental Strength: Lendl

Whose shots do YOUR champion have?

Fedfan34, Good idea.

I would choose Segura for forehand and Santana for drop shot.
 

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
Winning- Arguable. Laver, Pancho, Rosewall were big time winners too. Laver has 200 tourney titles. Fed doesn't have even have that. So how is Fed the biggest winner ever??


There is a lot of great movers in history. I don't know if there is a clear cut greatest mover. I don't think Fed is a better mover than Borg was for instance.


I'll still probably take Nadal's FH over' Fed's . All these years later and Nadal's Forehand is probably still the deadliest weapon on tour. While Fed's has decline massively since his peak days

90's Clay, Thanks that you mention the old giants.

They say that Rosewall had the best footwork at all. Arthur Ashe said that Muscles was in the perfect position to hit the ball in 99%.
 

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
First Serve: Ivanisevic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Djokovic
Backhand: Djokovic
Forehand: Federer
Slice: Laver
Movement: Nadal
Footspeed: Monfils
Reflexes: McEnroe
Consistency: Borg
Drop Shot: Melzer
Power: Soderling
Mental Strength: Nadal

It's curious that you prefer Laver regarding slice even though all experts of his time ranked Rosewall's slice (his forte, whereas Laver had several kinds of bh) higher...
 

Chico

Banned
An alien invasion has occurred. They are placing the fate of the planet on ONE tennis match.

You have to engineer a player who has the shots of previous players from tennis history to go up against the alien champion. You are allowed to take ONE shot/aspect of game from a single player. For example, you cannot say Backhand Slice: Federer, Forehand: Federer.

So, from whom is your player constructed?

Clarification: First and Second serve can be taken as either one shot or two, your choice. Similarly, you may break down "volleys" into forehand or backhand volley, or simply say "volleys" of a certain player. You may NOT do this with groundies.

My "Champion" to Save Planet Earth:
First Serve: Ivanisevic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Djokovic
Backhand: Agassi
Forehand: Nadal
Slice: Ken Rosewall
Movement: Federer
Footspeed: Chang
Reflexes: McEnroe
Consistency: Borg
Drop Shot: Laver
Power: Soderling
Mental Strength: Lendl

Whose shots do YOUR champion have?

First Serve: Djokovic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Djokovic
Return: Djokovic
Backhand: Djokovic
Forehand: Djokovic
Slice: Djokovic
Movement: Djokovic
Footspeed: Djokovic
Reflexes: Djokovic
Consistency: Djokovic
Drop Shot: Djokovic
Power: Djokovic
Mental Strength: Djokovic
and adding
Overhead: Sampras
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
First Serve: Djokovic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Djokovic
Return: Djokovic
Backhand: Djokovic
Forehand: Djokovic
Slice: Djokovic
Movement: Djokovic
Footspeed: Djokovic
Reflexes: Djokovic
Consistency: Djokovic
Drop Shot: Djokovic
Power: Djokovic
Mental Strength: Djokovic
and adding
Overhead: Sampras

I don't wanna die Chico...
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
First Serve: Djokovic...

Your support of all things Djoker (and other Serbian players, if I recall) is always charming but it has the same downside as any distortion of reality. Which is that the real world will take you by surprise. For example, how is that Troicki appeal coming along ?
 
First Serve: Karlovic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: McEnroe
Return: Djokovic
Backhand: Djokovic
Forehand: Federer
Slice: Federer
Movement: Federer
Footspeed: Nadal
Reflexes: Federer
Consistency: Federer
Drop Shot: Federer
Power: Del Potro
Mental Strength: Hewitt
 
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These are always rather silly given that mixing different elite shots together probably wouldn't work so well as the style has to fit. You can't give Federer Gasquet's backhand because it would have to change Federer's style in order to work. He wouldn't have time to unleash that stroke if he continued playing right up on the baseline.


First Serve: Karlovic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: McEnroe
Return: Murray
Forehand: Agassi
Backhand: Edberg
Slice: Petzschner
Movement: Nadal
Foot Speed: Monfils
Reflexes: Federer
Consistency: What does this mean, exactly? Connors
Drop Shot: Coria
Power: Wawrinka
Mental Strength: Borg
 

Wynter

Legend
Taking one aspect from each player
First Serve: Ivanisevic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Agassi
Backhand: Safin
Forehand: Fernando Gonzalez (Fed's consistency with Gonzo's Power, ultimate forehand)
Slice: Rosewall
Movement: Djokovic
Footspeed: Hewitt
Reflexes: Laver
Consistency: Federer
Drop Shot: Fognini (Seriously, check some out, insane skills)
Power: Del Potro
Mental Strength: Nadal (Highest compliment I can probably give)
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
Taking one aspect from each player
First Serve: Ivanisevic
Second Serve: Sampras
Volleys: Edberg
Return: Agassi
Backhand: Safin
Forehand: Fernando Gonzalez (Fed's consistency with Gonzo's Power, ultimate forehand)
Slice: Rosewall
Movement: Djokovic
Footspeed: Hewitt
Reflexes: Laver
Consistency: Federer
Drop Shot: Fognini (Seriously, check some out, insane skills)
Power: Del Potro
Mental Strength: Nadal (Highest compliment I can probably give)

Mmm, good observation skills for finding great drop shots! Fognini has a really good one. Coria wouldn't be a bad choice either in this regard.
 
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