Lets talk "Age"

Average Peak age in tennis nowadays?


  • Total voters
    69
#1
Some decline in their 20s, some peak at 30+.. some retire early, some retire late.



Whatever you lose entering your 30s, you can gain so much more, Tactical play, Anticipation, Mentality, Accuracy

Sure,you decline in a 100m sprint from when you are 25 to when you are 35.
But a lot of other things have yet to hit peak, as concentration peaks at the age of 43 (according to studies), most brain activities peak after 40

So it all depends if you decline to much physically, skip trainings, motivation, unhealthy food etc.. it then outweighs the positive things that peak in your 30s
And thus retires, which was the case of a lot of athletes back in the day

Wawrinka and Agassi are the prime examples of that you can play better tennis in your late 30s then in your early "peak physical age"

It all depends if you only lose 5% of your "physical abilities" but gain 10%+ in other departments..

Ronaldo at 34 years of age in a contact sport like football manged to turn around a 0-2 deficit to 3-2 by scoring an hattrick.
And football is way more "Physical" dependent than tennis.
Does this mean that Ronaldo is in same "physical" shape as when he was 24-26? or runs as fast? No.
But he has probably managed to reduce his decline to something like 5%-10% at max, and the other parts that peak in old age are able to somewhat neutralize his "decline"

Some make fun of the fact Federer lost 1 set to a 35 year old Agassi in the USO Final, but my belief is that Federer probably would have straight setted a 25 year old Agassi.

Peak is when you have the perfect balance, previously that age was around 24-27.. the trend i see now 28-31.

Thats why it frustrates me when people assume "Weak era" because of all this, when it surely didnt help Novak in Indian Wells when a 35 year old Kohlschreiber could still
Play his best tennis.. does it make it a strong era? Perhaps, but sure as hell doesn't make it a weak one.
 

Enga

Professional
#5
Playstyle maters too. If your game was to float across the court like a feather and swing so fast that the ball would fly 100 mph through the court and hit the back wall, then yeah you're probably gonna have to adjust when you get older. Adjustments can take years.
 
#7
Playstyle maters too. If your game was to float across the court like a feather and swing so fast that the ball would fly 100 mph through the court and hit the back wall, then yeah you're probably gonna have to adjust when you get older. Adjustments can take years.
Yes, but not a big "adjustment" Nadal is still relying on grueling rally exchanges, he tries to finish his points earlier but the adjustment he made is at 10-15% max
So, 2011 wasn't peak Djokovic?

:cool:
He sure hit the physical peak their combined with his natural talent.. he came out of nowhere and surprised everyone, noone knew how to counter..

At his 2015-2016, the Peak was slightly higher.. and the results speak for them selfs.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
#8
Yes, but not a big "adjustment" Nadal is still relying on grueling rally exchanges, he tries to finish his points earlier but the adjustment he made is at 10-15% max

He sure hit the physical peak their combined with his natural talent.. he came out of nowhere and surprised everyone, noone knew how to counter..

At his 2015-2016, the Peak was slightly higher.. and the results speak for them selfs.
I noticed that you didn't answer my question: was Djokovic at his peak in 2011?

Yes or no?

:cool:
 

Enga

Professional
#9
Yes, but not a big "adjustment" Nadal is still relying on grueling rally exchanges, he tries to finish his points earlier but the adjustment he made is at 10-15% max
I think Nadal doesn't have to adjust much. He alters small things during the hardcourt and grasscourt swing just so he can have a slightly better chance. But it's pretty obvious that he still wants to win clay, and for that he is playing fine, so he doesn't make changes. Though I would definitely say he is MUCH slower now.
 
#10
Some decline in their 20s, some peak at 30+.. some retire early, some retire late.



Whatever you lose entering your 30s, you can gain so much more, Tactical play, Anticipation, Mentality, Accuracy

Sure,you decline in a 100m sprint from when you are 25 to when you are 35.
But a lot of other things have yet to hit peak, as concentration peaks at the age of 43 (according to studies), most brain activities peak after 40

So it all depends if you decline to much physically, skip trainings, motivation, unhealthy food etc.. it then outweighs the positive things that peak in your 30s
And thus retires, which was the case of a lot of athletes back in the day

Wawrinka and Agassi are the prime examples of that you can play better tennis in your late 30s then in your early "peak physical age"

It all depends if you only lose 5% of your "physical abilities" but gain 10%+ in other departments..

Ronaldo at 34 years of age in a contact sport like football manged to turn around a 0-2 deficit to 3-2 by scoring an hattrick.
And football is way more "Physical" dependent than tennis.
Does this mean that Ronaldo is in same "physical" shape as when he was 24-26? or runs as fast? No.
But he has probably managed to reduce his decline to something like 5%-10% at max, and the other parts that peak in old age are able to somewhat neutralize his "decline"

Some make fun of the fact Federer lost 1 set to a 35 year old Agassi in the USO Final, but my belief is that Federer probably would have straight setted a 25 year old Agassi.

Peak is when you have the perfect balance, previously that age was around 24-27.. the trend i see now 28-31.

Thats why it frustrates me when people assume "Weak era" because of all this, when it surely didnt help Novak in Indian Wells when a 35 year old Kohlschreiber could still
Play his best tennis.. does it make it a strong era? Perhaps, but sure as hell doesn't make it a weak one.
Data matter

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...ution-of-all-open-era-major-finalists.453446/
 
#12
I don´t know what you are trying to prove here?
Other than agree with me, that players nowadays play better at older age.

Australian Open winners : 50 from Australia, 57 from other countries.. there is a 47% chance an Australian wins the AO20.


As i´ve made myself clear, there is an obvious pattern not just in our sport that the "Peak age" have been pushed forward and thus longer careers.
 

Towny

Professional
#13
Wawrinka and Agassi are the prime examples of that you can play better tennis in your late 30s then in your early "peak physical age"
Wawrinka is only 33 and hasn't been in good form in nearly 2 years. Agassi was probably at his peak in late 94/95 when he was 24/25. His best slam results came when he was 29 in 99/2000. He won his last slam at 32 in 2003. He retired at 36, so never played in his 'late 30s'. How exactly have these two proved you can peak in your late 30s?

And anyway, these two are unusual. Wawrinka didn't really kick it into gear mentally until he got Magnus Norman. Agassi had various reasons why he had long periods of playing poorly and basically being MIA when be was younger, which meant he had far less mileage when he was older.
 
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#14
Peaking in mid-to-late 20s wasn't unheard of before, though rare. Lendl, as a late-blooming ATG, peaked at 25-27, for instance. Now that the wear and tear can be held off for a bit longer if you don't have a predilection for injuries, peaking in late 20s is possible/reasonable, but extending that to 30s is something else entirely. So far the only players reaching peak condition late 20s - early 30s are those who underperformed in their youth (e.g. Wawrinka was mentally feeble to compete at the top level before Norman brewed that champion confidence in him) or servebots, who rely the least on their agility.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
#15
I don´t know what you are trying to prove here?
Other than agree with me, that players nowadays play better at older age.

Australian Open winners : 50 from Australia, 57 from other countries.. there is a 47% chance an Australian wins the AO20.


As i´ve made myself clear, there is an obvious pattern not just in our sport that the "Peak age" have been pushed forward and thus longer careers.
That's an all round terrible analogy man :-D
 
#16
Players don't peak at 28-30, don't look at Wawrinka as proof that this is the case.

2011 Djokovic would shred today's Djokovic. 2011 Djokovic >2015 Djokovic btw.
2008 Nadal would murder today's Nadal if he played a 5 hour match in the previous round.
2005 Federer would kill today's Federer.
"don't look at Wawrinka as proof that this is the case."
But i need proof?
Should i settle with your "Would shred him" views? or actual numbers and historical uptrends?


By saying 2011 peak > 2015/2016 peak.. a 2011 Djokovic would have an even more impressive resume had he played in 2015-2016?
In other words 5-6 Grand slam in a row, 6-8+ Master wins in a row, i highly doubt it.
 
#17
Yes, but not a big "adjustment" Nadal is still relying on grueling rally exchanges, he tries to finish his points earlier but the adjustment he made is at 10-15% max
Not to offend, but you are tossing around a lot of anecdotal evidence. Nadal made “15% adjustments.” Not sure what that means or how it could be verified.

To your main point, it’s readily apparent that the age of peak performance in men’s tennis is going up, but a few considerations must be made.

First, the leaders of the 30+ club are Roger Rafa and Novak, the three greatest players ever, so it’s not exactly surprising they keep defying expectations. Conversely, the younger generations have not been very productive. Will Raonic or Thiem or Kyrgios hit new peaks after 30, or will they keep having similar careers/decline in a more conventional manner? We’ll have to wait and see.
 
#18
Wawrinka is only 33 and hasn't been in good form in nearly 2 years. Agassi was probably at his peak in late 94/95 when he was 24/25. His best slam results came when he was 29 in 99/2000. He won his last slam at 32 in 2003. He retired at 36, so never played in his 'late 30s'. How exactly have these two proved you can peak in your late 30s.

And anyway, these two are unusual. Wawrinka didn't really kick it into gear mentally until he got Magnus Norman. Agassi had various reasons why he had long periods if playing poorly and basically being MIA when be was younger, which meant he had far less mileage when he was older.
"He won his last slam at 32 in 2003. He retired at 36, so never played in his 'late 30s'. How exactly have these two proved you can peak in your late 30s."
I never said you can peak in your late 30s.. i said the peaks are getting older and older

And how i determine peak? by titles won/lost also known as overall performance.. let me turn around your question to you, How did you "prove" that Agassi peaked in 94/95?
 
#20
Sure,you decline in a 100m sprint from when you are 25 to when you are 35.
Even that is not always the case. Just look at Kim Collins who ran under 10 s for the first time with around 40. Or Justin Gatlin who was better than ever with 35. I know Gatlin is a doper, but he was it all the time, so that doesn’t matter.
 
#21
Some decline in their 20s, some peak at 30+.. some retire early, some retire late.



Whatever you lose entering your 30s, you can gain so much more, Tactical play, Anticipation, Mentality, Accuracy

Sure,you decline in a 100m sprint from when you are 25 to when you are 35.
But a lot of other things have yet to hit peak, as concentration peaks at the age of 43 (according to studies), most brain activities peak after 40

So it all depends if you decline to much physically, skip trainings, motivation, unhealthy food etc.. it then outweighs the positive things that peak in your 30s
And thus retires, which was the case of a lot of athletes back in the day

Wawrinka and Agassi are the prime examples of that you can play better tennis in your late 30s then in your early "peak physical age"

It all depends if you only lose 5% of your "physical abilities" but gain 10%+ in other departments..

Ronaldo at 34 years of age in a contact sport like football manged to turn around a 0-2 deficit to 3-2 by scoring an hattrick.
And football is way more "Physical" dependent than tennis.
Does this mean that Ronaldo is in same "physical" shape as when he was 24-26? or runs as fast? No.
But he has probably managed to reduce his decline to something like 5%-10% at max, and the other parts that peak in old age are able to somewhat neutralize his "decline"

Some make fun of the fact Federer lost 1 set to a 35 year old Agassi in the USO Final, but my belief is that Federer probably would have straight setted a 25 year old Agassi.

Peak is when you have the perfect balance, previously that age was around 24-27.. the trend i see now 28-31.

Thats why it frustrates me when people assume "Weak era" because of all this, when it surely didnt help Novak in Indian Wells when a 35 year old Kohlschreiber could still
Play his best tennis.. does it make it a strong era? Perhaps, but sure as hell doesn't make it a weak one.
Very interesting analysis. You are right that Cristiano was faster in Manchester and early years in Madrid than he is right now, yet his best seasons are the last 4 or 5: most prolific goal scorer in the Champions and totally dominating the Champions League.
 
#22
2015-2016, absolute perfect balance of Peak.. so many records broken, so about 28-29.
That was the period when his main rival, Nadal, suffered a loss of form and forehand issues that are well documented. Federer barely looked like he was going to win anything until he reinvented himself with that attacking backhand.

Novak dominated that period because both his potential rivals (Rafa and Roger) were "absent".
 
#23
"don't look at Wawrinka as proof that this is the case."
But i need proof?
Should i settle with your "Would shred him" views? or actual numbers and historical uptrends?
Did you see the big 3 at their peaks? I have. You don't know what you're talking about. The competition has gone down the sh*tter.
By saying 2011 peak > 2015/2016 peak.. a 2011 Djokovic would have an even more impressive resume had he played in 2015-2016?
In other words 5-6 Grand slam in a row, 6-8+ Master wins in a row, i highly doubt it.
Competition in 2011 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>competition in 2015
 

Druss

Hall of Fame
#25
Some decline in their 20s, some peak at 30+.. some retire early, some retire late.



Whatever you lose entering your 30s, you can gain so much more, Tactical play, Anticipation, Mentality, Accuracy

Sure,you decline in a 100m sprint from when you are 25 to when you are 35.
But a lot of other things have yet to hit peak, as concentration peaks at the age of 43 (according to studies), most brain activities peak after 40

So it all depends if you decline to much physically, skip trainings, motivation, unhealthy food etc.. it then outweighs the positive things that peak in your 30s
And thus retires, which was the case of a lot of athletes back in the day

Wawrinka and Agassi are the prime examples of that you can play better tennis in your late 30s then in your early "peak physical age"

It all depends if you only lose 5% of your "physical abilities" but gain 10%+ in other departments..

Ronaldo at 34 years of age in a contact sport like football manged to turn around a 0-2 deficit to 3-2 by scoring an hattrick.
And football is way more "Physical" dependent than tennis.
Does this mean that Ronaldo is in same "physical" shape as when he was 24-26? or runs as fast? No.
But he has probably managed to reduce his decline to something like 5%-10% at max, and the other parts that peak in old age are able to somewhat neutralize his "decline"

Some make fun of the fact Federer lost 1 set to a 35 year old Agassi in the USO Final, but my belief is that Federer probably would have straight setted a 25 year old Agassi.

Peak is when you have the perfect balance, previously that age was around 24-27.. the trend i see now 28-31.

Thats why it frustrates me when people assume "Weak era" because of all this, when it surely didnt help Novak in Indian Wells when a 35 year old Kohlschreiber could still
Play his best tennis.. does it make it a strong era? Perhaps, but sure as hell doesn't make it a weak one.
There is no way Peak Fed (2005) would have straight setter a 25yr old Agassi (1995)! I would say both AO and USO would have gone to 5 sets, with Agassi most likely prevailing at AO and Fed at USO.
 
#27
Some decline in their 20s, some peak at 30+.. some retire early, some retire late.


Peak is when you have the perfect balance, previously that age was around 24-27.. the trend i see now 28-31.

.
I'm sorry I don't agree completely. In the cases of Fed/Novak/Roger, they are much better players now >31. If you watch old Nadal's matches, you wonder how he managed to win those. His serve was weak, forehand not so good and backhand was barely penetrating. He moved really well and had huge biceps. He certainly looks more elegant, attacking and threatening now.
Djokovic possibly fits in that time frame but that was because Becker and Vajda were both involved in improving his game. I don't see any significant changes in the way he plays now and when he was aged 28-30.
Federer is a curious case. He defies so many norms. His forehand was deadly in the earlier part of his career. Not so much now. His backhand was never that good as it is now. But we can agree he is a much complete player now.

But I see what you are saying, the "complete" player profile has moved upwards - I would say even further than the time period you've posted.
 
#31
Very interesting analysis. You are right that Cristiano was faster in Manchester and early years in Madrid than he is right now, yet his best seasons are the last 4 or 5: most prolific goal scorer in the Champions and totally dominating the Champions League.
Old and washed up Cristiano and Messi ruling the Champions League once again. Football is at the lowest point quality wise in the last 15 years. :(
 
#34
Did you see the big 3 at their peaks? I have. You don't know what you're talking about. The competition has gone down the sh*tter.

Competition in 2011 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>competition in 2015
2011 and 2012 were imo the strongest years this century. 2011 is the only 3 Slam year in a really strong year imo. That's not to diss Federer. Mid 2000s wasn't weak, but Fed was the only ATG in his prime at that point. That's happened before, but no players were as greedy as Fed in the mid 2000s.
 
#36
Players don't peak at 28-30, don't look at Wawrinka as proof that this is the case.

2011 Djokovic would shred today's Djokovic. 2011 Djokovic >2015 Djokovic btw.
2008 Nadal would murder today's Nadal if he played a 5 hour match in the previous round.
2005 Federer would kill today's Federer.

Out of those 3, I would only agree with Federer 2005.
Nadal 2008 - NO WAY.
Djokovic - Maybe or Maybe not.
 
#42
There are different ways to look at this, and I'm trying to view it and reply without getting drawn into "goat talk".

Falstaff78 brought a very good thread to the forum, and the OP also made some good points about the confluence of physical attributes and mental/emotional approach.

It would appear that while the peak or prime age has not changed significantly (although it may be a little older now), that it is harder now to have early success in big events, and easier to have late success.
 
#43
Every player is different and it's absurd to paint all with one brush. Novak's peak was roughly 24-29, Nadal's was 19-24.
Well if your targeting me, my first sentence in the thread was "Not painting everyone with the same brush"
But there is such thing as an "average" and that is going up.
 

Towny

Professional
#44
I never said you can peak in your late 30s.. i said the peaks are getting older and older
You said:
Wawrinka and Agassi are the prime examples of that you can play better tennis in your late 30s then in your early "peak physical age"
Neither played in their late 30s and certainly didn't peak anywhere near that time.
And how i determine peak? by titles won/lost also known as overall performance.. let me turn around your question to you, How did you "prove" that Agassi peaked in 94/95?
You can watch matches at that time and see. Watch the AO 95 final and tell me that Agassi wasn't at his peak. He won back to back slams then and was consistent throughout the year. Markedly more than in 2005 when he was 35. Don't get me wrong, he played well then. But clearly not his very best ever.

If you look at the majority of ATGs they mostly peak around mid twenties. Even the Berdych/Tsonga/Del Potro contingent haven't peaked in their thirties.
 
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Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
#45
So, the OP wants to "talk about "Age"", but refuses to define peak for his favourite.

Verdict: trolling

Thread status: for deletion upon request from the OP.

:cool:
 
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