Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by pc1, Sep 17, 2012.
As late as June 1964, Hoad was still regarded as one of the top two professionals.
With how many big events won?
In 1964 Hoad won the New Zealand tour, beating Laver 3 matches to 1, Anderson 3 matches to 1, and was 1 and 3 against Rosewall (losing the first 3 matches, winning the fourth and series-deciding match).
Laver was 1 and 3 against Hoad, 3 and 1 against Rosewall, 3 and 1 against Anderson.
Rosewall was 3 and 1 against Hoad, 1 and 3 against Laver, 2 and 2 against Anderson.
Anderson was 4 and 8 overall.
By June, Laver had still not won an important pro event, but would soon win the US Pro at Longwood.
As a pro?
Two world pro tournament championships in 1958 and 1959.
The 1960 New Zealand Tour (over Anderson, Sedgman, and Cooper.)
The first Japanese Pro Championship in 1960 (on clay over Rosewall, 11-9 in the fifth set).
Two Kramer Cup wins in 1961 (beating Trabert in the final, deciding match), and 1962 ( a ferocious performance in the final against Olmedo).
The 1962 Facis Trophy Italian tour.
An 8 to 0 win against Laver in the 1963 Australian tour, including the big one at Kooyong (6-3 in the fifth set).
The 1964 New Zealand Tour.
Dan, I'm convinced urban meant only 1964.
Whatever he meant, this answer should cover it.
In L.A., Hoad was coming off a 3 to 1 tour victory over Laver.
That should answer the question.
One should add the 1957 South African tour, which he won over Rosewall, Segura, and Kramer.
It was during this tour that the famous incident took place in a South African bar, when the players entered and one South African man apparently made an objectionable remark about Segura.
Hoad walked over to the man, grabbed THE FRONT LEGS OF HIS CHAIR, and raised him up to eye level, saying "Shut the.....up", and let go the chair.
I do not see anywhere that Segura ever returned to play in South Africa.
Incidentally, I do not see that Hoad had any back trouble between June 1957, following a six-week body cast, and February 27, 1958, when his back gave out again at Palm Springs, after he had dominated a string of matches against Gonzales 15 to 3. (Yes, that is 15 to 3.)
Thus, his back allowed him to perform the famous feat in South Africa.
Hoad moved to south side of Spain and many aussies feared he´d make them DC champions in 1967 when Australia hosted Spain at Melbourne¡¡¡
was 1958 Melbourne RR Pro tournament played on grass?
veco, Yes on grass of the famous Kooyong stadium.
In later years the Australian tennis officials did not allow the pros to use such "holy" amateur venues.
It is possible that Kramer did say this (in order to impress the crowd and justify their ticket-prices), but that it was not a actual fact.
(Kramer was always very head-strong and opinionated.)
This was in 1964, before Laver had won his first important tournament in the pros.
Why the new name Dan?
I have learned that my relative Dan Lobb, famous British TV star and former tennis pro, who once defeated Tim Henman, shares common descent from John Lobb, who lived in the early 1500's.
Not as close as I thought.
Don't want to confuse anyone.
Too talented, too athletic, too handsome, too nice folk
Hoad is more a Hollywood mith or legend than anything else
It would' t be fair to common mortals if, in addition, he also happened to be the greatest ever
Maybe best ever would be good For him
He was very mortal, with human fallibilities.
There are legends of him drinking beer all night, and then working the booze out of his system before playing a big match the next day against Davidson in the 1956 French final, or Laver in 1963 at Sydney.
Dan L, Welcome back. I have missed you.
Good to hear from you, Bobby.
We share an interest in the famous Tennis Twins.
it was regarded as a gang **** in those years...they rather have the cows eat all the grass than letting the outlawers step onto it.
The Maleevas, of course
I am happily married, too happily for that.
good to have you on the forum again, Dan
Considering the praise he gets from the likes of Rod Laver, Pancho Gonzales, and Ken Rosewall, I don't think Hoad was just a "myth." He had a rather successful doubles career teaming with Rosewall if you don't think his singles career was much.
Vensai, Yes, Hoad won 21 major doubles, thus No.2 behind Rosewall (24). Mostly the "twins" played together. Among others they won two Wimbledon titles and five Wembley titles...
The last time the pros were allowed to use major Australian tennis facilities was in January 1963, when Laver debuted as a pro against Hoad and Rosewall at White City and Kooyong.
The Australian tennis federation was supposedly upset that Laver had apparently agreed to turn pro in 1962.
The amateur managers got nasty and banned the pros from major venues, and upped the "stipend" and "service fees" paid to amateur players.
This starved the pro ranks of new players, because the leading amateurs could make more money than the leading pros.
Dan, would you like to do an post (or maybe a few posts) on why Hoad could be the greatest on my new Positive Discussion thread?http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=497232
See you there.
Hoad is the one guy I never watched live that I would want to attend a match.The first one of my list that includes the likes of Cochet,Doherty,Tilden,Budge,Perry,Crawford,Sedgman,Gonzales and Kramer to start with...
Roche regards Hoad as GOAT, although he never saw him play in his prime years.
Dan, Roche does not regard Hoad as GOAT, only as strogest player when "on".
No, when Roche was asked who was "the greatest player of all time", his response was,
"Hoad was great, but I never saw him in his prime."
Speaks for itself.
Roche was close to Rosewall and so were Stolle and Newk right bobbyone?
The other aussie gang was the farmers:Anderson,Emerson and Laver
None can truly consider Hoad as the GOAT.
His achievements are just not worthy of such an accolade.
Dan, That's not "the greatest player of all time". Come down again to earth!
kiki, Do you think that's witty??
I don't consider Hoad the GOAT by accomplishments. I can possibly see him as the GOAT for one match but that's debatable too.
Pancho Gonzalez did however call Lew Hoad and I quote "probably the best and toughest player when he wanted to be."
Gonzalez ranked Hoad, Laver, Budge, Kramer and Frank Sedgman on the same competitive plateau.
Gonzalez commented that the only player he feared was Hoad. A host of other professionals and amateurs during that era revered Hoad's ability. Hoad had one flaw, his love of drink. I think Hoad's flaw detracted from his ability, but it was a different era with different standards. Hoad, although completely different in his mentality, reminds me of a current day Rios. The other players were in awe of him and couldn't beat him on his best day, but neither of them ever rose to the top on a consistent basis.
Personally, I think Hoad and Rios fit into the same category, more talent than anyone else they just didn't have the special ingredient that a player like Rosewall or Sampras or Laver or Borg had.
Agreed. I also think a great talent that people don't think about is the ability to play at a high level every match. Hoad played a very low percentage game and he was bound to be off on occasion and lose to lesser players. The margin of error wasn't as high for Hoad as with other greats. A great player like Connors for example seemed to never be "off" his game and rarely lost to an inferior player. You can say the same about Rosewall, Federer and Nadal, generally speaking.
Over the course of a few years I would tend to think Hoad's gamestyle may not work as well as a player who has a very high level consistent game.
100% agree, the only thing I would add is that Hoad/Rios would always play "that" match that you would just be in awe of and never forget. Rios/Agassi at the Lipton was one of them. Rios made Agassi look like a beginner.
Well what an overstatement!!!
Hoad would be insulted with this comparison
At least if you brought up Mecir...
Please explain. I said Hoad had a totally different persona than Rios. Hoad was a typical Aussie.
Bobby, all I did was quote Roche on the issue.
If you have a problem with it, take it up with Tony.
Just because these great players don't say what you think they should say, that doesn't give you the right to change their words.
Hoad actually was a consistent player throughout the period 1956 to 1960.
If there were bad patches, it had to do with his back injury, not his mental approach or concentration.
Just look at all the close matches he won against Gonzales and Rosewall.
No problem with mental concentration.
He would lose to inferior players in minor events, but I think this was partly to avoid excess strain on his back.
He saved his best efforts for the major series.
His winning percentage on the two championship series in 1959 was 70%, which is comparable to the winning percentages of Kramer and Gonzales in their championship tours, and also for Rosewall in his tour win over Laver in 1963.
I am not sure of Rosewall's percentage for 1964.
What did Rios win?
I think that Hoad's year in 1959 was superior to Laver's in 1969.
Considering the level of competition, and number of matches played in the championship events.
Well, I don´t know what you really mean by witty
I simply don´t think Hoad and Rios belong to the same league, not on talent.Don´t take it bad, it is just my style.
Separate names with a comma.