Lew Hoad-A discussion on his career

Dan Lobb said:
You've got the facts there, but in the wrong order.

Hoad became a national hero with his performance in the 1953 Davis Cup final, a few weeks later he did his army service in New Guinea. While there he had major health trouble, developing a show-off weight lifting exercise, push ups with 50 pound weights on his back, which caused two ruptured discs in his back, interrupting his play over the rest of his playing years. He also was bit by a poisonous spider and nearly died.

In 1955 he suffered from back pain, and despite a strong year in the first half of 1956, was bed-ridden with back pain right after Wimbledon. In early 1957 took some months off for treatment, was in an upper body cast for six weeks, and then had about 12 months of pain-free play.

Had some great results in 1958 and 1959, during which he played about 300 matches.

In late 1962, trained hard to play against Laver, and won (according to Laver and Buchholz, who were on that tour) 13 or 14 straight matches against Laver, at the same time when Laver was whipping Rosewall at Kooyong and Adelaide.
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Well for an old goat, I was surprised I remembered that much! Thanks for the history lesson! :rolleyes: :p ;)
 
Dan Lobb said:
You've got the facts there, but in the wrong order.

Hoad became a national hero with his performance in the 1953 Davis Cup final, a few weeks later he did his army service in New Guinea. While there he had major health trouble, developing a show-off weight lifting exercise, push ups with 50 pound weights on his back, which caused two ruptured discs in his back, interrupting his play over the rest of his playing years. He also was bit by a poisonous spider and nearly died.

In 1955 he suffered from back pain, and despite a strong year in the first half of 1956, was bed-ridden with back pain right after Wimbledon. In early 1957 took some months off for treatment, was in an upper body cast for six weeks, and then had about 12 months of pain-free play.

Had some great results in 1958 and 1959, during which he played about 300 matches.

In late 1962, trained hard to play against Laver, and won (according to Laver and Buchholz, who were on that tour) 13 or 14 straight matches against Laver, at the same time when Laver was whipping Rosewall at Kooyong and Adelaide.
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Hoad may have won those two matches, but Ken won the other 12 or 13. It is obvious you idolize Hoad, but try to not let that cause you to ignore other facts, as it makes you seem foolish and easy to ignore. If I recall correctly, Lew won 7 or 8 straight matches over Laver, in that period. It is true that Hoad was either foolish or poorly advised with his weights training, but fact IS Lew did reach 4 pro slam majors finals 60-63 and lost all 4 to Rosewall. If Lew could reach all those finals, he could not be that seriously injured, or so it would seem.
 
thrust said:
Hoad may have won those two matches, but Ken won the other 12 or 13. It is obvious you idolize Hoad, but try to not let that cause you to ignore other facts, as it makes you seem foolish and easy to ignore. If I recall correctly, Lew won 7 or 8 straight matches over Laver, in that period. It is true that Hoad was either foolish or poorly advised with his weights training, but fact IS Lew did reach 4 pro slam majors finals 60-63 and lost all 4 to Rosewall. If Lew could reach all those finals, he could not be that seriously injured, or so it would seem.
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The bolded -- you mean Laver won those two matches (over Ken), but yes that's correct. And Ken won the other 11 (over Laver). And yes Hoad won 8 straight over Laver, a losing streak that Laver broke in the next match (in LA). Meanwhile Rosewall built a winning streak over Laver, of 12 or 13 matches (I have to check), starting in New Zealand and ending in Cleveland if I recall correctly. That's the longest known winning streak anyone had over Laver.
 
krosero said:
The bolded -- you mean Laver won those two matches (over Ken), but yes that's correct. And Ken won the other 11 (over Laver). And yes Hoad won 8 straight over Laver, a losing streak that Laver broke in the next match (in LA). Meanwhile Rosewall built a winning streak over Laver, of 12 or 13 matches (I have to check), starting in New Zealand and ending in Cleveland if I recall correctly. That's the longest known winning streak anyone had over Laver.
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Correct! It is easy, for me, to get names and stats confused every now and then. I am glad that I had the other stats mostly correct though.
 
thrust said:
Hoad may have won those two matches, but Ken won the other 12 or 13. It is obvious you idolize Hoad, but try to not let that cause you to ignore other facts, as it makes you seem foolish and easy to ignore. If I recall correctly, Lew won 7 or 8 straight matches over Laver, in that period. It is true that Hoad was either foolish or poorly advised with his weights training, but fact IS Lew did reach 4 pro slam majors finals 60-63 and lost all 4 to Rosewall. If Lew could reach all those finals, he could not be that seriously injured, or so it would seem.
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Who won which two matches? Your facts are wrong and biased.

But having read your posts, I am not surprised.

We have discussed these facts many times, you seem to ignore the facts.
 
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krosero said:
The bolded -- you mean Laver won those two matches (over Ken), but yes that's correct. And Ken won the other 11 (over Laver). And yes Hoad won 8 straight over Laver, a losing streak that Laver broke in the next match (in LA). Meanwhile Rosewall built a winning streak over Laver, of 12 or 13 matches (I have to check), starting in New Zealand and ending in Cleveland if I recall correctly. That's the longest known winning streak anyone had over Laver.
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Of course, it was LAVER, not Hoad, who won the two BIG best-of-five set matches on grass at Kooyong and Adelaide, where Laver had experience as an amateur, in tremendous fashion over Rosewall.

FOR THE YEAR, Laver had an even split in best-of-five set matches against Rosewall.

When the pros went INDOOR (where Laver was less experienced) of course, Rosewall took the edge in best-of-three set matches.
Again, no surprise.

Laver and Buchholz claimed that Hoad defeated Laver in 13 or 14 straight, which is a VERY strong source.

If you really believe that Laver and Buchholz are wrong about this, find some source to explain the reason for discounting their story, how they could both be wrong when they were actually present.
And, no, I don't mean about someone from the 1930's unable to remember the exact score of a match some fifty years ago, that is not comparable.
Simply repeating the same stuff without new information just goes in circles.
Were Buchholz and Laver in some sort of conspiracy to puff Hoad? Unlikely.

Buchholz used that long streak against Laver to justify picking Hoad as all-time number one, so he must have been certain about it.

And no, Thrust was wrong again, Hoad did not over-train, but was injured in a show-off exercise in 1954, which affected his career thereafter.

There is no reason for Thrust repeating wrong information about Hoad's injury. Especially without sources.
 
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thrust said:
Hoad may have won those two matches, but Ken won the other 12 or 13. It is obvious you idolize Hoad, but try to not let that cause you to ignore other facts, as it makes you seem foolish and easy to ignore. If I recall correctly, Lew won 7 or 8 straight matches over Laver, in that period. It is true that Hoad was either foolish or poorly advised with his weights training, but fact IS Lew did reach 4 pro slam majors finals 60-63 and lost all 4 to Rosewall. If Lew could reach all those finals, he could not be that seriously injured, or so it would seem.
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Hoad won three pro majors, according to Kramer's reckoning.
The Wembley does not qualify as a major in my book.
 
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Dan Lobb said:
Who won which two matches? Your facts are wrong and biased.

But having read your posts, I am not surprised.

I see that Krosero "liked" your wrong post....no surprise.

We have discussed these facts many times, you seem to ignore the facts.
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Obviously, I hope even to you realize, I meant Laver. My facts concerning your post that I answered are correct. Your facts are Wrong and Biased, as usual.
 
thrust said:
Obviously, I hope even to you realize, I meant Laver. My facts concerning your post that I answered are correct. Your facts are Wrong and Biased, as usual.
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I answered your stuff above.
It was LAVER, not Hoad, who won those two big matches, and Laver split his best-of-five matches in 1963 with Rosewall...great achievement.
 
thrust said:
Perhaps, but Rosewall won 15, at least. Ken and Lew played 5 pro Major finals, with Ken winning ALL of them. But then, I am sure you know that?
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Your stats are debatable, of course.

You need to check the fields, the venues...I do not give "major" status to indoor events.
I think that it is rather pathetic to label an indoor event as "major".
Some of those so-called pro indoor "majors" had a field of 4 for a supposed "world championship".

Hoad defeated Rosewall in all three of his pro major wins....when BOTH players were at their prime level, not when one was late career or injured, no cheap victories there.
 
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Dan Lobb said:
Your stats are debatable, of course.

You need to check the fields, the venues...I do not give "major" status to indoor events.
I think that it is rather pathetic to label an indoor event as "major".
Some of those so-called pro indoor "majors" had a field of 4 for a supposed "world championship".

Hoad defeated Rosewall in all three of his pro major wins....when BOTH players were at their prime level, not when one was late career or injured, no cheap victories there.
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Try this one, according to B Collins, both Lew and Ken were first
ranked in the top 10 in 1952. They were tied at #10. Ken ranked higher than Lew in: 53,54,and 55. The only years Lew out ranked Ken was in 56, 58 and 59. In reality, both were great players who were great representatives of Australia. At their very best, perhaps Hoad was slightly better. Overall, Ken played at a higher level more consistently, which is why he won so much more for a longer period of time.
 
thrust said:
Try this one, according to B Collins, both Lew and Ken were first
ranked in the top 10 in 1952. They were tied at #10. Ken ranked higher than Lew in: 53,54,and 55. The only years Lew out ranked Ken was in 56, 58 and 59. In reality, both were great players who were great representatives of Australia. At their very best, perhaps Hoad was slightly better. Overall, Ken played at a higher level more consistently, which is why he won so much more for a longer period of time.
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I think that Hoad reached a higher level in Davis Cup play in 1953 and 1955, which was the number one event in those years.
And Hoad was consistent in his big years, number one of all time on an annualized wins over top twenty players.
However, I would generally agree with your other remarks.
 
Dan Lobb said:
Your stats are debatable, of course.

You need to check the fields, the venues...I do not give "major" status to indoor events.
I think that it is rather pathetic to label an indoor event as "major".
Some of those so-called pro indoor "majors" had a field of 4 for a supposed "world championship".

Hoad defeated Rosewall in all three of his pro major wins....when BOTH players were at their prime level, not when one was late career or injured, no cheap victories there.
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Mr. Lobb, You are a liar: There never were 4-man majors!!!

It's totally uninteresting if YOU give indoor events a major status. Fact is that Wembley was an acknowledged pro major (also Coubertin French Pro)!
 
BobbyOne said:
Mr. Lobb, You are a liar: There never were 4-man majors!!!

It's totally uninteresting if YOU give indoor events a major status. Fact is that Wembley was an acknowledged pro major (also Coubertin French Pro)!
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I never heard of those pro-slams until much later! If Bud Collins or Vic Braeden didn't bring it up, the tennis fans were in the dark! The tennis magazines didn't really go into either and I was a subscriber of "Tennis Magazine" for at least 30 years! I collected the record book published every Feb.! I actually had to wait until 1986 to see if Martina won all 3 events at the '85 Lipton Int'l in FLA! She did BTW; partnering with Gigi Fernandez & Heinz Gunthardt in those limited occasions of MxD! :rolleyes: :p ;)
 
Fiero425 said:
I never heard of those pro-slams until much later! If Bud Collins or Vic Braeden didn't bring it up, the tennis fans were in the dark! The tennis magazines didn't really go into either and I was a subscriber of "Tennis Magazine" for at least 30 years! I collected the record book published every Feb.! I actually had to wait until 1986 to see if Martina won all 3 events at the '85 Lipton Int'l in FLA! She did BTW; partnering with Gigi Fernandez & Heinz Gunthardt in those limited occasions of MxD! :rolleyes: :p ;)
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I never understand how a 4-man could be a major, not sensible.
 
Fiero425 said:
I never heard of those pro-slams until much later! If Bud Collins or Vic Braeden didn't bring it up, the tennis fans were in the dark! The tennis magazines didn't really go into either and I was a subscriber of "Tennis Magazine" for at least 30 years! I collected the record book published every Feb.! I actually had to wait until 1986 to see if Martina won all 3 events at the '85 Lipton Int'l in FLA! She did BTW; partnering with Gigi Fernandez & Heinz Gunthardt in those limited occasions of MxD! :rolleyes: :p ;)
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Fiero, As krosero has documented, the term "major professional championships" was used since a long time, rather in newspapers than in magazines.
 
Dan Lobb said:
I have found several 4 and even 2 man majors already...ridiculous how supposedly rational posters could support these.
They are indoor, of course, which I do not accept as majors.
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You should try playing a match on a wood gym floor sometime! It can make grass look slow depending on the type of balls! :rolleyes: :p ;)
 
Dan Lobb said:
I have found several 4 and even 2 man majors already...ridiculous how supposedly rational posters could support these.
They are indoor, of course, which I do not accept as majors.
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neither would i to be honest.
may i repeat my original request, could you name one of these events? or maybe the several that you found?
thanks
 
pc1 said:
Not to mention that the slow (or fast) high ball is a shot virtually every one hander has problems with. The thing I do wonder about is the times that Vines encountered this and handled it easily. I'm sure it wasn't mentioned. The old high ball to the one hander tactic is as old as time memorial. I'm sure it was tried before against Vines.

Laver for example used to on occasion do that against Rosewall. We know Nadal did that against Federer.
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I've said this innumerable times. A high ball to a 1hb is not a problem for players with good drive-slice tchnique.
 
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Fiero425 said:
Two things; I can still hear BJK saying 'about a high ball to the backhand,' "back in the day playing with a wood racket you couldn't crack an egg!" The 2nd is more of an example; there was a "battle of the sexes" where Virginia Wade had to play against Bjorn Borg! All she could do was hang back near the fences dealing with his high bouncing shots on both sides! Her only other alternative was to take them in the air and come into net which she did successfully, but just not enough; losing set 6-3! She had the advantage of being able to use the doubles lines and was able to run him quite a bit to his amusement! You never saw Borg smile that much on court, but he thought it funny! In another match Evonne Goolagong beat Ilie Nastase! He didn't take it seriously and didn't rant; just went to his knees to kiss her hand at the net! Those were the days when tennis was fun and I miss it so much! :oops: :( :confused:
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I think that BJK had the among best high backhand techniques of all time, man or woman.
 
thrust said:
Hoad may have won those two matches, but Ken won the other 12 or 13. It is obvious you idolize Hoad, but try to not let that cause you to ignore other facts, as it makes you seem foolish and easy to ignore. If I recall correctly, Lew won 7 or 8 straight matches over Laver, in that period. It is true that Hoad was either foolish or poorly advised with his weights training, but fact IS Lew did reach 4 pro slam majors finals 60-63 and lost all 4 to Rosewall. If Lew could reach all those finals, he could not be that seriously injured, or so it would seem.
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Irony meet hypocrisy.
 
Fiero425 said:
I never heard of those pro-slams until much later! If Bud Collins or Vic Braeden didn't bring it up, the tennis fans were in the dark! The tennis magazines didn't really go into either and I was a subscriber of "Tennis Magazine" for at least 30 years! I collected the record book published every Feb.! I actually had to wait until 1986 to see if Martina won all 3 events at the '85 Lipton Int'l in FLA! She did BTW; partnering with Gigi Fernandez & Heinz Gunthardt in those limited occasions of MxD! :rolleyes: :p ;)
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Did you mean "World Tennis Magazine."
 
Dan Lobb said:
Actually, we have already discussed these events in other posts, but some posters here still insist on claiming them as "pro majors", a ridiculous claim.
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I know that it's been discussed. That is part of why I want you to name concrete examples of four-man pro majors
 
Dan Lobb said:
When you see them, you will recognize them for sure.
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Dan, i honestly don´t know why a simple request like mine bothers you so much that you can´t give a straight answer.
But it isn´t my intention to make you uncomfortable in any way, so i consider the matter closed.
 
treblings said:
Dan, i honestly don´t know why a simple request like mine bothers you so much that you can´t give a straight answer.
But it isn´t my intention to make you uncomfortable in any way, so i consider the matter closed.
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I answered you several times...when I put out my list, not on this thread, you will instantly recognize the tournaments with 4-man and 2-man main draws, there will be no surprise. Relax.
 
Random musing here, but I wonder if Lew Hoad was fan of Aussie cricketer Keith Miller, or if they were friendly with each other?
 
70sHollywood said:
Random musing here, but I wonder if Lew Hoad was fan of Aussie cricketer Keith Miller, or if they were friendly with each other?
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That made me look him up, but not sure where you're going with that statement! Of course I checked out the BIO to get a clue; little overtly standing out! :rolleyes: :p ;)
 
70sHollywood said:
Random musing here, but I wonder if Lew Hoad was fan of Aussie cricketer Keith Miller, or if they were friendly with each other?
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I think I see what you mean...great natural talent, drinking, brawling, breaking team discipline, showing up after drinking in dominating form...

I see nothing to show that they hung out together, although they would almost certainly know each other, being contemporary legends of Australian sport.

Sometimes these guys don't mix, like rivals for the same public.

Sometimes women would chase them...one well-off woman flew around the world chasing Hoad on tour...Hoad was wary of fans.

Errol Flynn and Hoad both won the same Australian junior titles, but there is no mention of them meeting in Hollywood, when both were there....maybe they were competitors for the same market.
 
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