Lew Hoad Serve

[TnsGuru]

This was around 1974 and Lew Hoad is giving a serve lesson at a tennis camp. I only saw some old black and white clips of him playing but I am very impressed with his motion and how he seems to flow effortlessly into the court.

I know that players today don't land on the right foot anymore because the S/V game disappeared but even if you don't S/V it seems like his technique is more efficient with a better weight transfer. Is there any reason not to teach this style serve other than that players don't follow the serve to the net anymore?

Does anyone here on this forum serve this way and how do you feel about modern day serving vs yesteryear?

 

[Nostradamus]

This was around 1974 and Lew Hoad is giving a serve lesson at a tennis camp. I only saw some old black and white clips of him playing but I am very impressed with his motion and how he seems to flow effortlessly into the court.

I know that players today don't land on the right foot anymore because the S/V game disappeared but even if you don't S/V it seems like his technique is more efficient with a better weight transfer. Is there any reason not to teach this style serve other than that players don't follow the serve to the net anymore?

Does anyone here on this forum serve this way and how do you feel about modern day serving vs yesteryear?

he is tall, I need something that will work for short guys

 

[TnsGuru]

he is tall, I need something that will work for short guys

I don't think he was really tall, listed at 5' 10". He's the guy wearing the white shirt not the tall guy at the beginning of the video.

 

[mightyrick]

Hoad was a brutally good server. But back in the day, you had to keep a foot down while serving, so that was a big impediment to serve speeds.

That's what makes guys like Roscoe Tanner amazing. If Tanner would have been brought up jumping up into his serve, I can't imagine what kind of speeds he would have reached.

 

[Dan Lobb]

I don't think he was really tall, listed at 5' 10". He's the guy wearing the white shirt not the tall guy at the beginning of the video.

He was actually 5' 11".

 

[Dan Lobb]

Hoad was a brutally good server. But back in the day, you had to keep a foot down while serving, so that was a big impediment to serve speeds.

That's what makes guys like Roscoe Tanner amazing. If Tanner would have been brought up jumping up into his serve, I can't imagine what kind of speeds he would have reached.

Actually, you will see here that Hoad discourages his student from jumping on the serve as it impedes the smooth flow through to the net.

Notice how he mimics the jump-serve move.

 

[Oval_Solid]

his toss is very low but it still works for him or is a low toss better for serving
his motion is very similar to federers i wonder if fed took parts of his serve from this guy

 

[Frankc]

Thank you for posting this video - fascinating...
(In my dreams, someone will post a superb quality full match of Hoad - Gonzales from the Pro tour.)

 

[Dan Lobb]

Thank you for posting this video - fascinating...
(In my dreams, someone will post a superb quality full match of Hoad - Gonzales from the Pro tour.)

CBS broadcast them...may still exist in archives.

 

[flanker2000fr]

This was around 1974 and Lew Hoad is giving a serve lesson at a tennis camp. I only saw some old black and white clips of him playing but I am very impressed with his motion and how he seems to flow effortlessly into the court.

I know that players today don't land on the right foot anymore because the S/V game disappeared but even if you don't S/V it seems like his technique is more efficient with a better weight transfer. Is there any reason not to teach this style serve other than that players don't follow the serve to the net anymore?

Does anyone here on this forum serve this way and how do you feel about modern day serving vs yesteryear?

The reason why he's not jumping is that, before 1959, the rule required one foot to stay in contact with the ground until the ball was hit. So all the guys of Hoad's generation were serving in this way. Also, players picking up tennis until that time were using this technique (left foot stays the floor, right foot steps in for a right handed serve). A guy like Nastase, who grew up in the 50's, kept this technique throughout his career, even when jumping was allowed. Also, it is debatable that this technique allows to come to the net more quickly. Great S&V players like Cash or Noah jumped and landed on the right foot, but McEnroe / Edberg / Sampras were all jumping and landing on the left foot, and they weren't slow coming to the net.

 

[Dan Lobb]

The reason why he's not jumping is that, before 1959, the rule required one foot to stay in contact with the ground until the ball was hit. So all the guys of Hoad's generation were serving in this way. Also, players picking up tennis until that time were using this technique (left foot stays the floor, right foot steps in for a right handed serve). A guy like Nastase, who grew up in the 50's, kept this technique throughout his career, even when jumping was allowed. Also, it is debatable that this technique allows to come to the net more quickly. Great S&V players like Cash or Noah jumped and landed on the right foot, but McEnroe / Edberg / Sampras were all jumping and landing on the left foot, and they weren't slow coming to the net.

Not slow, but slower than would be possible with a serve in motion towards the net...they had to land on two feet which surely disrupted the flow to net.

 

[flanker2000fr]

Not slow, but slower than would be possible with a serve in motion towards the net...they had to land on two feet which surely disrupted the flow to net.

Edberg / Sampras land on their left foot, Mac on his right foot, which they use for impulsing their run to the net. They all show great balance while doing this, so not sure where you are seeing them being disrupted.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Edberg / Sampras land on their left foot, Mac on his right foot, which they use for impulsing their run to the net. They all show great balance while doing this, so not sure where you are seeing them being disrupted.

The jump disrupts the motion to the net, and many players today land on one foot and then immediately hop onto two feet...hard to run to net like that.

Without a jump, the serve motion itself is a movement toward net, the jump discontinues the movement to net.

I am now looking at some examples which I will post. Not every player jumps. Michael Stich did not jump, and Ashe's jump was hardly noticeable.

 

[Dan Lobb]

You can see here that Stich did not jump, good choice. McEnroe barely jumps.

 

[timnz]

He was 5 ft 11.5” according to his wife ie not exceedingly tall

 

[flanker2000fr]

The jump disrupts the motion to the net, and many players today land on one foot and then immediately hop onto two feet...hard to run to net like that.

Without a jump, the serve motion itself is a movement toward net, the jump discontinues the movement to net.

I am now looking at some examples which I will post. Not every player jumps. Michael Stich did not jump, and Ashe's jump was hardly noticeable.

I am familiar with this video, and if anything, it validates my point.

Of the Top 10 players listed, two need to be excluded (Roche, Laver), because they learned their service technique at a time (pre-1959) when the rule stipulated that one foot had to stay on the ground during the service motion. Arthur Ashe would have learned the same technique for the same reason.

Of the 8 players remaining:
- all of them, to the exception of Becker, land on their front foot (left for right handed players, right for Mac). Becker is the only one to use a scissor motion where the back leg comes in front during the jump, to land on his right foot
- all of them jump, meaning that both their feet leave the ground. It is less pronounced for Stich than for the others, but still quite noticeable for Mac

If jumping and landing on the front foot was so detrimental to the movement towards the net, all these top S&V players would not be using this technique.

But maybe the answer is that this technique allows for a more powerful serve, and they were all happy to have a slightly less balanced motion as a trade-off for it.

 

[Dan Lobb]

I am familiar with this video, and if anything, it validates my point.

Of the Top 10 players listed, two need to be excluded (Roche, Laver), because they learned their service technique at a time (pre-1959) when the rule stipulated that one foot had to stay on the ground during the service motion. Arthur Ashe would have learned the same technique for the same reason.

Of the 8 players remaining:
- all of them, to the exception of Becker, land on their front foot (left for right handed players, right for Mac). Becker is the only one to use a scissor motion where the back leg comes in front during the jump, to land on his right foot
- all of them jump, meaning that both their feet leave the ground. It is less pronounced for Stich than for the others, but still quite noticeable for Mac

If jumping and landing on the front foot was so detrimental to the movement towards the net, all these top S&V players would not be using this technique.

But maybe the answer is that this technique allows for a more powerful serve, and they were all happy to have a slightly less balanced motion as a trade-off for it.

There were many players who changed their service motion, and Roche was only 13 years old when the rule changed, so don't see that as an impediment to change.

Ashe did jump but only slightly.

Stich had no jump whatsover on the clips as far as I can see here.

But you are right, they made a trade-off, stronger serve for less forward motion.

 

[DMP]

I think the student is jumping UP, not forward and that is what Hoad is trying to discourage. He wants forward motion towards the net. The trade off every server has is between jumping UP, to get height for the serve, and FORWARD to get towards the net.

 

[Dan Lobb]

I think the student is jumping UP, not forward and that is what Hoad is trying to discourage. He wants forward motion towards the net. The trade off every server has is between jumping UP, to get height for the serve, and FORWARD to get towards the net.

That is true, although Hoad himself and others of his generation like Laver and Gonzales had no jump at all.

 

[Olli Jokinen]

his toss is very low but it still works for him or is a low toss better for serving
his motion is very similar to federers i wonder if fed took parts of his serve from this guy

In no way are they similar. Federer has a different stance, takes racket back differently, jumps into the serve, lands on left foot.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Here is a better look at the Hoad and Gonzales serves, no jumping here at all. They attack the net directly after the serve on every serve.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Hoad mentions that he learned to shorten his points as a pro, and that was partly due to the smaller racquet heads then which were about one half the size of current racquet heads.

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