"Lightning bolt" second serve tips?

Goof

Professional
I have been experimenting recently with a lightning bolt service motion with a super wide starting stance (which becomes pinpoint), and it has done wonders for my first serve. However, I can't quite figure out what to do with my second serve. I've experimented with my toss and racquet approach angle, but my forward weight transfer is so extreme with the wide stance lightning bolt motion that I hit long if I put any height on the ball at all even if I get good spin. So far the only solution I've found is just to slow down for the second serve, but that leads my second serve to just be a slower flat serve and I'd like to add spin.

Do any of you use lightning bolt serve and have any suggestions, or remember what Ivanisevic or Ljubicic did on their second serves? Kyrgios seems to mainly just hit a slower flat serve for his second like I am currently doing but that seems to result in very inconsistent speeds on his (and my) second serve.
 

Goof

Professional
You have an unknown serving technique.

Low toss, extreme forward momentum from legs into pinpoint stance, and super quick motion through trophy, drop, hit. I gave examples: Kyrgios, Ivanisevic, Ljubicic. Roscoe Tanner would be another. Some people refer to Dolgopolov and Cilic's techniques as "lightning bolt" as well due to the speed they use for motion, but they use platform stance so they don't have the extreme forward momentum of the others I listed.
 

dct693

Semi-Pro
First, I would suggest you look to see what those servers you just mentioned do for their second serves.

Second, without seeing your second serve, the general rule with the second serve is to swing fast for spin - never slow it down. My guess is that you're not hitting the ball far enough in front of your and are hitting too far back. I used to do this. It created a very high-spin serve but which traveled too high and went long at times. Try tossing a few inches further in front and see how it goes.

Best would be if you could post video of your serve from the back and side so we can see.
 

Goof

Professional
First, I would suggest you look to see what those servers you just mentioned do for their second serves.

Second, without seeing your second serve, the general rule with the second serve is to swing fast for spin - never slow it down. My guess is that you're not hitting the ball far enough in front of your and are hitting too far back. I used to do this. It created a very high-spin serve but which traveled too high and went long at times. Try tossing a few inches further in front and see how it goes.

Best would be if you could post video of your serve from the back and side so we can see.

Thanks. Goran pretty much just hit two first serves ("Croatian roulette" he called it) and Kyrgios does seem to mainly just hit a slower flat(ish) serve. Ljubicic however appears to have shortened/slowed his footwork down on second serves, which probably prevented him from moving too far forward past his toss and preventing the issue you discussed. I will experiment with tossing even further into the court and/or not taking such an aggressive forward step into the pinpoint. Thanks again!
 

whorng

Rookie
Kyrgios varies his 2nd, but he can put a lot of spin.
If your 2nd serve doesn't have spin it's not mechanically correct.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Swing same, add more spin for 2nd and lower net clearance...judge by depth, not height over net.
 

Goof

Professional
Kyrgios varies his 2nd, but he can put a lot of spin.
If your 2nd serve doesn't have spin it's not mechanically correct.

True. I think the toss is the issue as was said above; I am jumping into the court toward the net a lot more with this motion than before and was still trying to toss back over my head for the spin/second serve the same as I was before. I probably should toss it more forward toward the net a little (and aim lower). I'll have to experiment with that the next time I'm able to go out and hit serves.
 

Goof

Professional
Thanks everyone, I have experimented with my toss the past few days and got the second/spin serve to click. Better yet though, through my experimenting I think I figured out why the Ivanisevic-style wide starting stance works well for me and have figured out that with a slight tweak to a conventional starting stance I don't even need to do the Ivanisevic-style lightning bolt serve to get the same benefits I was seeing from it. (I was born with rotated/asymmetrical hip issue, and I was turning my front toe toward the net as I took the big step up with the back foot; if I start with my front toe pointed toward net rather than net post I can serve well conventionally (today at least; hopefully it sticks)).
 
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