Linear vs. rotational pull

[abeldm]

Ok was curious to get everyone's ideas on linear and rotational pull electronic stringing machines... I am looking into getting my own stringing machine to do for family, friends, and as a hobby / side job.
I guess I am somewhat spoiled i learned to string an a Babolat Sensor, but I am wanting to get a good constant pull electronic machine.
Anyways, I'm looking at some of the Gamma machines (6900 ELS, 5800 ELS) and was just wondering if anyone had some firsthand knowledge of either... what they liked / didn't like.
Would also like to get maybe a Silent Partner (Aria) but am having trouble finding one... Any thoughts or help?

 

[Lakers4Life]

Silent Partner stop selling the Aria or any stringing machines for that matter. But that does not mean that same machine or similar is no longer made. Finding one for sale, maybe just as hard as finding a Star 4 for sale.

As for linear vs. rotational, that's personal preference. I've always used a Linear Gripper, so I'm more biased to wards that kind of machine. I think the main downside to rotational grippers is the sharp turn the string takes going into the gripper, but I have not had any experience on rotational gripper other than temporarily owning a Gamma X-6FC.

 

[sstchur]

Having owned a Silent Partner Swing, which has a rotational gripper, and then later a Mutual Power Titan 7700 and now a Gamma 6004, both of which have linear grippers, I can say that I, personally, like the linear much better.

The rotational seemed to require more stringer, was a bit more cumbersome to use, and would sometimes kink string.

However, the SP Swing was an entry level machine. Perhaps higher end rotational grippers are better -- not sure.

 

[dgdawg]

I had a Silent Partner DG for years. I never had an Issue with it. It's deff true more string is required at tie-offs.
I've heard for years that rotational grippers "damaged" string. I never experienced this. I strung everything, including natty.

 

[Irvin]

It is true the rotational gripper is going to require more string because you have to go around the gripper then through the gripper with string left over to hold it. That means you have to have about 1 foot of string just to do that. Also I like to pull two string when I start my mains and crosses to set my clamps. If you do that you are going to have to make sure the strings are never overlapped so you could damage the string.

If you ever end up with a short string and need to use a starting clamp as a bridge the weight of the starting clamp may close your gripper before you get the string clamped so it may be a little more cumbersome to do that. Here is a good video of how the rotational gripper works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk7YOv4OYYc

Irvin

 

[dgdawg]

What I used to do with a short tail is: wrap the string JUST around the movable jaw, rather than the entire drum.
You can still use a starting clamp as a "jumper", just as you would a linear gripper.
I never thought a rotational gripper was a "disadvantage".

 

[SirGounder]

I don't really like the sharp angle that a rotational gripper requires, but I've never had an issue with it damaging string. A rotational gripper also requires more string which could be an inconvenience because you have to use a bridge. I do it quite a bit and it's not a bid deal.

 

[diredesire]

What I used to do with a short tail is: wrap the string JUST around the movable jaw, rather than the entire drum.
You can still use a starting clamp as a "jumper", just as you would a linear gripper.
I never thought a rotational gripper was a "disadvantage".

Yep, you can couple this technique with a starting clamp, too, if it doesn't want to catch and hold.

I don't really like the sharp angle that a rotational gripper requires, but I've never had an issue with it damaging string. A rotational gripper also requires more string which could be an inconvenience because you have to use a bridge. I do it quite a bit and it's not a bid deal.

I've worked on both types of machines, and I also own the 5800 ELS. I've liked linear grippers more, but if the gripper is designed poorly (doesn't have a travel restricting pin), then I've found linear grippers (like on a NEOS, etc) can actually ghost strings quite a bit (although the NEOS has an adjustment screw).

Some people don't like the sharp angle that rotational grippers use, but what about tie offs or the first outside-of-the-throat mains? If you take a close look, they're actually bent just as much! There's no reason (from a string safety point of view) to avoid rotational grippers.


WITH THAT SAID: The 5800 ELS requires a BUTTLOAD of extra string. On par (or greater!) than a similar rotational gripper machine. This is ESPECIALLY true when you want to be able to string one ahead all the way to the last cross. I've even adjusted the tensioning head to be as close to the machine as possible (without the adjustment knob hitting the casing [as an aside, I opted for the 2 point]), and it still requires way more string than I am accustomed to.

 

[abeldm]

Thanks for all the info here... some good thoughts.
Does anyone have any thoughts or working knowledge on the Gamma Progression ELS II? I know it is a cheaper price (table top)with rotational pull... I was just curious if anyone really liked / disliked it?

 

[Irvin]

What I used to do with a short tail is: wrap the string JUST around the movable jaw, rather than the entire drum.
You can still use a starting clamp as a "jumper", just as you would a linear gripper.
I never thought a rotational gripper was a "disadvantage".

Yep, you can couple this technique with a starting clamp, too, if it doesn't want to catch and hold...

I guess that is true but if you had enough string to go over the cam and through the gripper and then into a starting clamp you would have more than enough string to use a linear gripper so you wouldn't need a bridge.

If your string does not reach the gripper and you have to use a starting clamp as a bridge you will have to use one hand to hold the starting clamp up. If you don't hold it up the weight of the clamp will close the gripper. Then you will have to take the two strings coming out of the starting clamp with the other hand and wrap them around the cam and through the jaws of the gripper then apply tension.

Irvin

 

[Kevo]

I think linear probably has more plusses than minuses, but I would take a good rotational gripper over a bad linear one.

 

[pvaudio]

I've got a Silent Partner Aria which is a hybrid of the two: it's a linear gripper, but a rotational tensioner. I've had zero problems with it and it's a dream to string with. Beats my old Eagnas crank back to the stone ages in comparison.

 

[Cfidave]

Have a Silent Partner DG. No issues with the rotational gripper, never had it damage string, or kink strng in any fashion. I also have a Prince Neos with a linear gripper. The only downside to the rotational gripper is the amount of string required compared to the linear gripper. However, I would take the electronic machine with the rotational gripper over the crank machine with the linear gripper.

 

[diredesire]

Thanks for all the info here... some good thoughts.
Does anyone have any thoughts or working knowledge on the Gamma Progression ELS II? I know it is a cheaper price (table top)with rotational pull... I was just curious if anyone really liked / disliked it?

You mean the Progression ES II+? I work on that machine several times a week. Or are you talking about the newer ELS? I haven't worked on that machine, unfortunately, if you pinged Gamma Tech (a poster on the board that works for Gamma, and is AWESOME at aftermarket support), he could probably tell you the differences in machines.

If you're talking ES II+, it's a solid machine, but isn't as "quick" to re-pull slack. AKA it's not AS sensitive as a higher end machine, but it's definitely good enough. The clamps are alright, but we really abuse them at my work, and I've seen quite a few issues with them. Bret (Gamma Tech) has helped me with several clamp issues, and they're holding pretty well at the moment.

The mounting system works well, but is kind of a pain in the butt. For whatever reason, we have some issues with the nut on the inside of the mounting knobs staying put, so sometimes we'll spin the mounting knobs and they won't move the arms. A little superglue/threadloc will fix this in a jiffy, though. Overall, I'd give the machines a positive review, there is better out there, but for the price, the feature set you get is pretty darn good.

I guess that is true but if you had enough string to go over the cam and through the gripper and then into a starting clamp you would have more than enough string to use a linear gripper so you wouldn't need a bridge.

If your string does not reach the gripper and you have to use a starting clamp as a bridge you will have to use one hand to hold the starting clamp up. If you don't hold it up the weight of the clamp will close the gripper. Then you will have to take the two strings coming out of the starting clamp with the other hand and wrap them around the cam and through the jaws of the gripper then apply tension.

Irvin

Agree, but if we're comparing against linear grippers (specifically the 5800 ELS), this isn't going to be the case. The 5800 ELS (IMO) requires an obnoxiously long amount of extra string.

 

[abeldm]

I was talking about the newer model progression ELS... I'm just trying to figure out what machine will fit me best. Unfortunatly I learned to string on a Babolat Sensor (I know spoiled)... Currently I just string for myself/family or friends.. But I enjoy it and would like to start stringing more for more customers. After using the Sensor I don't want to get something that will be dragging me down. I like the linear grippers better, but Im trying to figure out which stringer to get. Gamma 5800 els, Gamma 6900 els (even though its rotational), gamma 6004 and upgrade with a wise in the future, or try and find something like a Babolat star 3.. maybe even save a few extra bucks for the star 5? Any guidance?