Yea, interesting Bartelbly.
I was not aware of those findings regarding anthropologists. i wonder what the breakdown is today...
It is interesting the contortions folks will use to microanalyse a situation.
Bottom line, his job is to promote tennis and sell tickets and his behavior/commentary was against that, hence a punitive measure (a fine).
That is not his job.
Ask the ATP what his job is.
Someone tell me how this is racist?
They should have just fined him for abuse as its too difficult to get into an issue like racial abuse unless you have a proper hearing, etc., where wider issues can be canvassed and that would be a ridiculous waste of time and money.
By itself, referring to someone's presumed ethnicity when insulting them is not necessarily racist, especially when you're dealing with people who don't belong to groups having some historically grounded animosity.
Racism is basically hating on a race based on poor or no justifications (e.g. stereotypes).
If the woman took offence at being labelled a Chinese when she was not, wouldn't that make her the racist? What's wrong with being Chinese?
There are probably in excess of 2 billion Chinese people in the world, including those living overseas and those living in Special Administrative Regions (SAR) like Hong Kong and Macau. Chances of assuming an Asian to be Chinese and getting it right is very high. In fact, you could even say Llodra's unlucky that the woman wasn't Chinese (unless it's one of those people who are ethnically Chinese and think they are Canadian, having lived there for a grand total of about 4 years; I hate those people).
Merely adding the word "****ing" before "Chinese" doesn't make the overall sentence/statement racist. The word is used as an emphasis and nothing more.
Besides, it's not like he could've stopped to ask her name, age, sex (because you know, you could offend transvestites, transsexuals and hermaphrodites who possess most or all the characteristics of a woman, but are not, applying the same logic), nationality, ethnicity and sexual orientation, before mouthing her off on (inter)national TV, right?
Michael Llodra was fined $US2,500 ($A2,300) for using a racial slur during his opening-round match against Ernests Gulbis at the ATP Tour's Indian Wells tournament, officials said on Sunday.
The French player yelled at a Chinese female supporter of Gulbis during his 6-3 5-7 7-6 (7-3) win over the Latvian on Friday.
The incident was witnessed by Canadian journalist Tom Tebbutt who wrote about it on his social networking Twitter site.
``Sat very first row -- dead centre behind the court for Llodra-Gulbis -- heard a lot. Deplorable behaviour by Llodra -- read next tweet.
``ML smacked ball out of court, threw racquet, called female Gulbis supporter in crowd a '(bleep)ing Chinese.' I confirmed later with brother of woman.''
Officials said Llodra was also verbally abusive towards the ballboys and their coordinator during the match. Besides the fine, Llodra had to apologise for his actions.
AAP.
A rude Frenchy what a massive suprise.
A survey, taken in 1985 (Lieberman et al. 1992), asked 1,200 American scientists how many disagree with the following proposition: "There are biological races in the species **** sapiens." The responses were for anthropologists:
physical anthropologists 41%
cultural anthropologists 53%[106]
The figure for physical anthropologists at PhD granting departments was slightly higher, rising from 41% to 42%, with 50% agreeing. This survey, however, did not specify any particular definition of race (although it did clearly specify biological race within the species **** sapiens); it is difficult to say whether those who supported the statement thought of race in taxonomic or population terms.
The same survey, taken in 1999,[107] showed the following changing results for anthropologists:
physical anthropologists 69%
cultural anthropologists 80%
And this is among american anthropologists, the number of anthropologists who reject the idea of race would be far higher outside of the us.
Of course, in actual sciences, such as Medicine, race IS a very important determinant of disease as well as reaction to various medicines and anesthesia.
Racist because he is against Chinese people I guess.
Target of Llodra’s Racial Slur Says Fine Is Not Enough
Save for the chilly breeze that often blows through the desert air after sunset, it is hard to imagine a more perfect setting for tennis than mountain-lined Indian Wells, home of the BNP Paribas Open.
The popular non-Grand Slam tournament, which attracts tennis fans from much of the western half of North America, even sells out of general admission grounds passes for certain sessions.
Alex Lee Barlow, a tennis fan from Oakland, Calif., was one of the thousands who made the trip for the first weekend of the tournament. Roaming the grounds with her husband and brother Friday, Barlow found a seat in the third row of the stands by the south baseline on Court 8, to watch a match between Michael Llodra of France and Ernests Gulbis of Latvia.
“It was a great match, it was a beautiful day — the whole crowd was getting into it,” Barlow said of the first-round match, which she entered during the second set. “One of the awesome things about Indian Wells is the closeness to the actual game.”
But Barlow, who was cheering for Gulbis with what she says were innocuous cheers like “Come on, Ernie,” was brought far closer into the game than she wanted. She soon incurred the wrath of Llodra, 31, who had already expressed his frustration by swatting with his racket between points and muttering to ball boys.
Llodra’s first comments in Barlow’s direction came in French. They were reported to include “putain chinoise,” which translates roughly as “Chinese *****.”
“He was looking directly at me,” said Barlow, who is Korean-American. “He didn’t yell it particularly loudly. He was turned toward the baseline, toward us, and he looked right at me and said this comment.”
Llodra directed his anger toward Barlow’s section again moments later, after her cluster of pro-Gulbis fans sighed in disappointment when Gulbis hit a double fault.
“You’re crying now are you? Well, you should be crying,” Barlow quoted Llodra as saying. Llodra later called Barlow a Chinese, adding a profane adjective for emphasis.
Llodra went on to win the match, 6-3, 5-7, 7-6 (3). He later retired with a knee injury down, 1-4, in his second-round match Sunday against Jo-Wilfried Tsonga.
Barlow said that she initially did not want to make a big deal of the incident, but that her anger about what had happened grew in the hours after the match.
“I’m not going to let it ruin my day,” she said she had thought. “But then as the afternoon wore on, I became more and more angry about it. Something in my head just told me I can’t just pretend like it didn’t happen.”
Barlow was contacted by the tournament director, Steve Simon, who informed her of the fine and the formal reprimand, and told her that Llodra would call her from Simon’s office to give her a personal apology. The call was never made, and Simon told Barlow that attempts to persuade Llodra to apologize had been unsuccessful.
Llodra, who is ranked No. 41, was fined $2,500 for verbal abuse by the A.T.P. The amount of the fine was left to the discretion of the A.T.P. supervisor who had conducted an investigation into the incident.
The $2,500 fine amounts to less than 20 percent of the $12,725 Llodra earned for making the second round of the singles draw. He also earned roughly $3,800 for losing in the first round of the doubles competition.
Though there have been prior incidents of spectators shouting ethnic slurs at tennis players (notably toward Serena Williams in Miami in 2007 and the Romanian Victor Hanescu at Wimbledon in 2010), players turning on fans occurs considerably less frequently.
According to French reporters who interviewed him for L’Equipe, Llodra did not seem to understand why the remarks he made were any worse than any other sort of profanity.
Llodra did not make matters better for himself during an interview with a reporter from the Chinese news Web site SINA.com, in which the Frenchman attempted to apologize for his remarks.
“My words were not aimed at China,” Llodra began.
“I love Chinese — I can totally make love with a Chinese girl,” he added, before being cut off by the A.T.P. official monitoring the interview. The journalist, who took offense at the remark, said that he did not find Llodra’s apology sincere. He added that there had been a great deal of reaction to Llodra’s remarks on Chinese social media networks like Weibo.
Llodra did not speak to any English-language media at the tournament. His next scheduled tournament is the Sony Ericsson Open in Miami, which starts March 21.
“I would like the A.T.P. to come down very hard on him,” Barlow said. “I don’t know what the official term would be, but I would like some severe sanctions put on him.” Barlow suggested that Llodra should be barred from his next three tournaments.
“Just issuing a fine is not going to do it — it’s not going to stop him or anybody else,” she said. “The money doesn’t mean anything to him.”
Though a call from Llodra seems unlikely at this juncture, Barlow is prepared should it happen.
“If he wants to call me up, I’ve got what I’m going to say to him all written out,” she said “Is that going to make a difference to him? I don’t know. He’s a certain age, he’s been living a certain way with a certain mindset that obviously tells him that that type of behavior is O.K., and me telling him that it’s not — maybe it will give it a human face. Obviously he doesn’t see people with Asian faces as having anything in common with himself because he wouldn’t treat them that way, ”
Barlow added that she might mention the similar ages of her and Llodra’s children to appeal to his humanity.
“If he calls, great. If not, I’m not going to lose sleep over it. It’s really not worth that to me.”
That is comedy gold from Llodra. :lol:“I love Chinese — I can totally make love with a Chinese girl,” he added, before being cut off by the A.T.P. official monitoring the interview.
It's racist because he associates the behaviour which he dislikes with a racial group, which is pretty ignorant and silly. It's the individual and her behaviour which he should be taking a disliking to not the racial group to which she belongs.
It would be like if a guy crashes into my car. I would never say "Damn blacks" or even think it because its the not the race that has anything to do him crashing into my car.
+1.
I am amazed that folks have so much difficulty with this concept. If you drag a person's race/ethnicity into a dispute having nothing to do with race in an effort to put them down, you are being racist.
Honestly. Do you think you can get into a dispute with somebody and toss out something like "Dirty Jew" and not have a problem?
It is not a defense that the person is actually the race or ethnicity that you selected. It's that you are bringing it up to disparage the person.
If someone is bald and is sitting among people who have hair, I bet references to hairlessness is going to figure prominently in your insults if you think they warrant it, but does that mean you really have a thing about bald people?
To the point where they're overcompensating. Why on earth would you have a Black History Month and an International Women's Day if you actually thought blacks and women are the same as anybody else?
A rude Frenchy what a massive suprise.
None of this is racist. We're all the human race.
Um no, his job is to win tennis matches. Thats what keeps him on the tour.
The tournament is in the business of promoting sales. If what you say were true guys like Davydenko never would have had careers and guys like Agassi would have won every tournament the ever played in and be the GOAT.
Nice try though. Money does not control everything in this sport. They are sure trying though.
I don't really understand the apologizing. By saying "putain Chinoise" or "f*cking Chinese" he is implying that whatever that individual was doing was consistent with what he perceives to be typical, negative behavior by Chinese people.
"I love China because I find their woman doable" What an ass.
Wow, Llodra's a pure doosh, isn't he?
My Oh My!! You clearly misunderstood me.I am indian(wheatish/brown skin)..The bolded clearly specifies that indians and pakistanis have subject to immense humiliation in counrties such as UK,AUSTRALIA,US(where indians/pakistanis population is quite high).I have never passed any racist comment in my life nor ever made fun of any religion,caste or race.
And the example you are giving me is more of a western thinking of people,it's like,"Oh look at this guy he's got a long beard and looks asian...he might be muslim..what the heck he is doing here??". Specially after 2001 WTC incident,many muslims has been very unfairly targeted...
NBA fines players 25K+ for criticizing refs (without slurs or profanity), and the ATP fines Llodra for $2,500......ATP's a joke.
Don't they get paid far in excess of your average tennis player?
I think he was fined about 20% of what he earned from the tournament.
So because there's one human race means people can't be racist? Please reexamine your 'logic'.
and what he said was about 500% more offensive than what an average nba player says criticizing a ref
Wow, Llodra's a pure doosh, isn't he?
That would not be a rational penalty.
That would be a penalty in excess of 100k.
Making Llodra some sort of bouc-emissaire is ridiculous - he's been penalized and he's not going to change. Worry about more serious examples of this behaviour.
Wrong.
All of the moral implications of Llodra's remarks aside, it is *very* bad business for the ATP to allow its employees to insult customers and offend the public. They should clamp down hard on this right from the start to send a strong message to the players and the public that this sort of thing won't be tolerated.
But of course, the ATP doesn't do this. A pretty morally compromised and weak leadership organization. Llodra sucks and so does the ATP.