LMAO Nadal 100% time violations
- Thread starter SpicyCurry1990
- Start date
loosegroove
Hall of Fame
I just saw the graphic and took a pic of it
Ha. Thanks! Can you post you a higher resolution pic?
Last edited:
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
I know that :lol:
What I meant was a defensive minded team like the Spurs would be helped by constantly going over the 24 second shot clock before shooting, when they are on offense, as it would reduce the total # of possessions in the game, playing to their strength on defense when the opposition has less chances to score. Compared to say an offensive minded team like the Steve Nash Suns who like to shoot every 7 seconds to increase the # of possessions they would see in a game. When these two teams played it was a very tempo oriented game. The goal for the Suns was to build a huge lead early and force the Spurs to play faster to catch up all game, whereas for the Spurs it was to keep the game close so they could afford to play slow and then slowly chip away at the Suns and build a lead by the time the 4th came around.
On some possessions though even with 14s left on the shot clock, the spurs would still shoot because the shot they had was so good and they might not get a better one if they took more time, but imagine if they knew they could go over the 24 EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION and be fine. :lol::lol::lol:
lol yes, gg well played
FormerNadalFan
Rookie
Why is Nadal special and gets to take longer than allowed 100% of the time?
I have no problem with the call the umpire made yesterday against Sock. Nadal took longer than he needed because he was anxious as it was a break point. The umpire may have allowed him the extra time if they played a 30 shot rally on the previous point but the umpire was totally within the rules as they are written and Nadal was totally in violation of the rules. You cannot get anxious on break point and pick your shorts, fix your hair and bounce the ball until you calm your nerves and your opponent falls asleep as well as the spectators dozing off.
Having the time penalty called is totally in Nadal's control and he assumes the risk for the penalty if he goes over the time limit.
No special treatment in tennis.
I for one want a shot clock. Nadal and Djokovic take too long and their matches as not as fun to watch because of all the nervous stalling while they sort through their minds to find the happy place before serving.
I have no problem with the call the umpire made yesterday against Sock. Nadal took longer than he needed because he was anxious as it was a break point. The umpire may have allowed him the extra time if they played a 30 shot rally on the previous point but the umpire was totally within the rules as they are written and Nadal was totally in violation of the rules. You cannot get anxious on break point and pick your shorts, fix your hair and bounce the ball until you calm your nerves and your opponent falls asleep as well as the spectators dozing off.
Having the time penalty called is totally in Nadal's control and he assumes the risk for the penalty if he goes over the time limit.
No special treatment in tennis.
I for one want a shot clock. Nadal and Djokovic take too long and their matches as not as fun to watch because of all the nervous stalling while they sort through their minds to find the happy place before serving.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
Jack Sock was over on the time limit 67% of the time.
Nothing said.
Ignorant ***** witch hunt.
So silly that people can be led like sheep to slaughter and believe whatever people want them to believe.
Seriously, people think that Nadal is the ONLY player to go over the limit?
Total idiots.
Nothing said.
Ignorant ***** witch hunt.
So silly that people can be led like sheep to slaughter and believe whatever people want them to believe.
Seriously, people think that Nadal is the ONLY player to go over the limit?
Total idiots.
FormerNadalFan
Rookie
Struggling to understand the difference between 67% and 100%? Curious, how well did you do in school lol. Also, it's tough to serve when scratch-and-sniff is still toweling and running though his scratch-and-sniff routine.
AtomicForehand
Hall of Fame
Why do you think Tennis Channel elected to show this graphic? What was the intent?
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
Struggling to understand why both went over the time limit numerous times and nothing is said about the other one.
Can't help you if you don't know what a witch hunt is.
FormerNadalFan
Rookie
The worst is when Nadal also waste time on the opponent's service game.
Agassi once scream at the umpire by demanding the pace of the game should be dictated by the server because Nadal was making him wait forever to serve. And we all knows Agassi waste little time between points on his serve.
Last edited:
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
Sock was was 20-25 seconds.
Nadal was 2-30 seconds.
But that's counting from the last ball hit, from the last point.
The ump was definitely not timing from that instant. Probably from the timehe called out the score. If it's that, Sock was under, Nadal was over.
VPhuc tennis fan
Professional
LOL. I got your point. But hey, the Spurs are my fav team!
Getting back to the issue: Rafa is a too great player for needing such idiosyncrasies, don't you think? Just put the dam.n ball in play.
VPhuc tennis fan
Professional
I can't play fair when the other doesn't. Would you? Hey, if the other guy tries to hit me in the balls, it's only fair that I return the favor. Don't you agree?
The day will come when another guy will take like 3 minutes before putting the ball in play. That would be such a sight to see Rafa complain about time violation, no?
Lets put it this way; there is a class full of students and the class starts at 8. One student, lets for the sake of argument name him Rafa, comes to class 8:15. The teacher don't want to make a big deal about it because he knows Rafa is a good student. Now the principal and all of the other teachers knows about this and is disturbed by this. Sure kids are sometimes late a few minutes but Rafa is so late and late so often that even students the normally aren't late pick up as an example. So Rafa is punished to try to show other kids you can't just take the rule for granted. Now if Rafa start crying "oh why do you only pick on me!" Would you call this a witch hunt?
Irrational Nadal worshippers would. According to them, Nadal is a late sleeper, so his natural tendency is to wake up late, so it is understandable that he's late to school. He is a good student (straight A's every time), and that is all that matters. The rule to penalize because he's a few minutes late every day, is stupid and needs to go.
Even worst. Because you do good you can do bad? Hey Bill Gates, because you donate so much money to needy organizations around the world; once a year, we are going to let you rob a bank!
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
That's a horrible analogy. I'm a teacher. If any of my students makes As every time, I leave them the hell alone!
Because Sock has been around barely long enough to have a cup of coffee, did it, in this instance, 1/3 less(and no doubt didn't exceed the limit by as much), whereas the other guy has a LONG AND PROTRACTED HISTORY OF DOING IT, THAT'S WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you REALLY that clueless?!?!
It's either a rule or it isn't. If it's a rule then it should be applied to everyone equally
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
I do think they time from the reading of the score because that also signals that the play has ended.
Well, since Nadal violated the rule half again as many often as Sock, it couldn't be applied equally, now could it? That's apparent in that, even as infrequently as it's called on him, he led the next closest player by more than a 2 to 1 ratio. The guy who breaks the rules the most is likely to get penalized the most, and, as that last match showed, the violation to punishment ratio is woefully inadequate with him.
Do you think every time violation should be called, or that it is at the Umps discretion?
No, every one should be called. My grandkids will probably have grey hair on their head before THAT happens. Tennis officials have long been spineless, as many articles, such as the following:
http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2013/...tour-rafael-nadal-tennis-now-takes-less-time/
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
Tsonga was not penalized one time time today. He didn't even get a warning. He was over the limit more than Nadal. The rule says from the end of the last point. He was over 30 seconds so many times, I lost count. When I timed from when the score was called, he was over a good dozen times, no less than Nadal.
The rule as it is now is a joke. And I didn't hear anyone pinging on Nishikori for taking a bathroom break between sets.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Yeah, but what if they are late not to the classes but to the exams as well, and hold others up, and keep disturbing others.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
How do you call it on every point when you can't?
There are so many exceptions:
1. Hecklers.
2. People late in getting seated.
3. Checking marks on clay, including the time it takes for umps to examine the marks (necessary).
4. Applause.
5. Ball people fumbling the balls.
Then there is the biggest problem, when to start timing, which NO ONE is agreeing on.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
It's fine if they are late to exams, but they still have to be done at the same time as everyone else.
The kind of people you are talking about are not making all A+s. As for disturbing others, you don't get away that either unless you are very powerful, in which case you get away with anything you want.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Some players respect the time limit. That's what. And some do not.
Yes, so if some players are angry and volatile should they be allowed to break racquets and cuss.
Should some players be allowed to get on-court coaching because they can't think for themselves.
Some players can't take the heat (Novak), others prefer the daytime (Fed/Nadal), should they be able to dictate their time of play every time.
Why does Serena lose a point when she shouts "Come on" while the ball is still in play ? Only the tennis matters.
We could go on like this saying that "only the tennis matters".
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
It's fine if they are late to exams, but they still have to be done at the same time as everyone else.
The kind of people you are talking about are not making all A+s. As for disturbing others, you don't get away that either unless you are very powerful, in which case you get away with anything you want.
I was just going with the analogy which you said was wrong. I know i am exaggerating the analogy but i needed to do so since you are holding up a player when you take time to serve, and he's waiting for the ball.
It would have been alright in a marathon, if the guy miles behind took toilet breaks, and adjusted his hair or whatever a million times, and appeared late for the race, but tennis is different. There are two people face to face.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
I agree, but this whole subject is getting a bit OCD here.
Obviously I am not debating the idea of players being free to set their own rules. I am doing the opposite. I am suggesting that there need to be rules that work, that are fair, that are enforceable, and that will work in all situations.
So long as there are nearly an infinite number of situations where an ump can choose NOT to enforce the time limit, as it is now defined, the rule is a joke.
But the fact that there seems to be very good evidence that not allowing players to take as much time as they wish has sped up the game, the idea of giving players as much time as they wish to serve just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
So the only thing that can be done is to refine the whole idea of a rule.
Last edited:
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
^ fair enough on your previous post.
I thought several people here were saying 'when the score changes' which takes care of umps examining a mark.
If i recall yesterday's matches, despite hecklers in many cases, the servers just served. I can't remember specifics, was it the Nishi match or the Stan match, but Nishi/Stan served even with some people calling out. Federer paused for one second, when someone did the "papapa" (whatever that nonsense is, i don't know) and then immediately served.
You cannot give 20 more seconds to a server after a cat-call or applause. Points 2 and 5 don't happen before every serve.
You cannot wait for the applause to die down to start the shot-clock. By then the player has toweled off, etc.
I thought several people here were saying 'when the score changes' which takes care of umps examining a mark.
If i recall yesterday's matches, despite hecklers in many cases, the servers just served. I can't remember specifics, was it the Nishi match or the Stan match, but Nishi/Stan served even with some people calling out. Federer paused for one second, when someone did the "papapa" (whatever that nonsense is, i don't know) and then immediately served.
You cannot give 20 more seconds to a server after a cat-call or applause. Points 2 and 5 don't happen before every serve.
You cannot wait for the applause to die down to start the shot-clock. By then the player has toweled off, etc.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
Here's the problem. Most of the people discussing this have not actually timed the points, to see what really happens.
Here is what is happening right now:
1. Violations don't seem to be given for starting games later. As it is the slow players can stall. I don't have figures for how much. I don't know what the rule is. Do you? I'd like to get facts for this.
But we don't know that. The consensus seems to be that the time is supposed to be from the last point. I can tell you for a fact that they do not throw violations every time players go over 20 seconds in slams, or every time players are over 25 seconds in ATP matches. That's the only thing I know for sure. Some players are mostly under that figure, for instance Fed, who is the fastest of the top 10 players and probably one of the fastest on tour.
These two players were fine, but why talk about Nishi/Stan, when they were in two different matches? It was JWT who was over, again and again, no matter how I timed it. It was not unreasonable, but neither was Nadal a couple days ago. The two are playing at about the same speed, but JWT never got faster because he got no violations.
Only a total fool would give Fed a time violation. It was never about players like Fed and KG, who play very fast, at least for the modern game. (Borg usually bounce the ball only once. He was faster than Fed. Many of the old players were faster than Fed. The game has gradually gotten slower and slower, which is what they are trying to undo.)
What do you do when someone calls out when it gets to 19 seconds? And the player stops for 2 seconds? Then the player is over. He gets a violation. Of if he doesn't, it's back the the discretion of the umpire. You need to so something when it gets to the time limit. What do you suggest?
Again, you have not actually timed what happens. It was VERY rare today in the JWT match that the score was not called out by 10 seconds after the last point. The applause does not last as long as you think. Slow players are not even close to stepping up to the line after 10 seconds.
You need to time it yourself in order to get an idea of what the umps are up against. They have an absurd rule (only 20 seconds at slams after the last point), which NO ONE is within on all points. Even Fed would get violations.
So because the rule is so wrong, Umps are interpreting the rule themselves, which they have no choice but to do since they are told to enforce a rule that is not sane.
It starts to work if you start the point after applause, and if you actually do that with a stop watch yourself, you will immediately see that most players are suddenly within the limit.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
Just getting to zero should be enough of an embarrassment, and it would finally prove that it is not working.
Shot clock the way to go for sure, there needs to be a removal of any subjective types of judgments. I think the only part which should be at the umpire's discretion is to pause the clock due to crowd noise and such. The rest should be loss of serve. I definitely dont think it should be left as is, because there definite gamesmanship going on and the policing of it sucks
MatsPhilander
Legend
Another umpire warning him at the worst time.
woodrow1029
Hall of Fame
The worst time? He should have gotten it at AD-Djokovic. It was better to wait until deuce.
There is no "worse" time. It is totally up to Nadal to avoid penalties.
I am dumb founded by the number of people who criticize the umpire for enforcing the rules.
Let's assume, the umpire waits until match point, ad out with Nadal serving and calls a time penalty that costs Nadal his first serve. All Nadal has to do to avoid the penalty is to SIMPLY FOLLOW THE RULES.
Any penalty imposed is the player's fault. Once you receive a warning, all you have to do is play within the rules. 100% controllable by the player.
I am dumb founded by the number of people who criticize the umpire for enforcing the rules.
Let's assume, the umpire waits until match point, ad out with Nadal serving and calls a time penalty that costs Nadal his first serve. All Nadal has to do to avoid the penalty is to SIMPLY FOLLOW THE RULES.
Any penalty imposed is the player's fault. Once you receive a warning, all you have to do is play within the rules. 100% controllable by the player.
MatsPhilander
Legend
No problem with it being enforced-But the timing & not just for him is ridiculous.
nothing ridiculous in my view. It is 100% within Nadal's control to avoid all penalty. Many players play fast even on clay including Tsonga, Ferrer and Federer. Most of Nadal's slow play is based in anxiety and not physical fatigue. Why should the umpire allow Nadal to go over time to quiet his nerves?
VPhuc tennis fan
Professional
Totally agree. That was my suggestion too.
VPhuc tennis fan
Professional
Since you often referred to not knowing when the umpire should start the timer, players often go over the time limit, here are my suggestions. First, instruct all umpires at the start of any tournament to A) start the timer within 5 seconds after he/she announces the score, B) if there is applause, loud noise, etc., wait 10 sec, announce the score and start the timer 5 sec thereafter, and C) most importantly, have some kind of visual sign like a red flag to raise on his table when he starts the timer. As for the players, they ONLY need to watch the timer countdown on the scoreboard, nothing else. It doesn't matter to them when the umpire starts the timer, they (player) must put the ball in play within the 20 sec on the shot clock. That's all. Basketball, football players can follow the shot clock rule. Tennis players are no less stupid to do so, yes? They either watch for the red flag (per my suggestion) or the shot clock countdown, nothing else.
