# Lockout vs Electronic - tension adjustment?

#### Jack2010

##### New User
I understand that the constant pull electronic machines string a little tighter than the lockout machines due to string stretch after the crank is locked out. I have a lock-out machine now, but if I were to upgrade to an electronic constant pull machine, how much do I have to adjust the tensions that I'm used to?

i.e. If I'm stringing at 60lbs on my crank, what tension would I need to adjust to for an electronic? 58lb?

Thanks!!

Jack

#### sstchur

##### Hall of Fame
I understand that the constant pull electronic machines string a little tighter than the lockout machines due to string stretch after the crank is locked out. I have a lock-out machine now, but if I were to upgrade to an electronic constant pull machine, how much do I have to adjust the tensions that I'm used to?

i.e. If I'm stringing at 60lbs on my crank, what tension would I need to adjust to for an electronic? 58lb?

Thanks!!

Jack

It's not an exact science and actually depends on a number of factors (how fast or slow did you used to crank, what's the elasticity of the string you're using, etc...)

But, the "general" rule of thumb is to increase about about 10% when going from constant pull to lock out. So if you string 60 on a constant pull, you might try 66 on a lock out. Again, it is not an exact science, but the rule of thumb should get in you in the ballpark and then you can adjust based on your experiments.

Basic formula if you want:

Lockout = CP * 1.1

CP = Lockout / 1.1

So if you currently use a lockout and are happy with 60 on it, then according to the formula (again, not an exact science -- cannot stress that enough), you might try:

CP = 60 / 1.1 = 54.5 (roughly)

If you normally string on a CP machine and are happy with 55, then when going to LO, you might try:

Lockout = 55 * 1.1 = 60.5 (roughly)

Hope this helps
-sstchur

#### Rabbit

##### G.O.A.T.
Great question. When I purchased my Wise, I had the same dilemma. Fortunately, the wise has a lockout mode as well as constant pull. I found initially, about a 5-6 pound differential would suffice...3-4 pounds less on the Wise. So I was stringing Lux Ace at 54 on my Neos, I set the Wise at 48 and the feel was the same.

If you purchase a Wise, you can do the same thing I did. Set the tension at what you set your lockout to, pull tension, then give it about 4-5 seconds, or whatever you feel is fair to simulate the time it takes to clamp. The Wise will report the tension loss. Your stringbeds will feel more consistent with an electronic.

good luck!

#### Xpherex

##### Rookie
I still don't have my stringing machine just order a drop weight one, "challenger 6" so do I have to do the same with drop weight?

#### Jack2010

##### New User
Rabbit,

I was thinking of getting a Wise 2086. How do you like yours? I have seen a bunch of posts about people having problems with their Wise. Would you say that is the minority of people? Thanks!

Jack

#### Jack2010

##### New User
It's not an exact science and actually depends on a number of factors (how fast or slow did you used to crank, what's the elasticity of the string you're using, etc...)

But, the "general" rule of thumb is to increase about about 10% when going from constant pull to lock out. So if you string 60 on a constant pull, you might try 66 on a lock out. Again, it is not an exact science, but the rule of thumb should get in you in the ballpark and then you can adjust based on your experiments.

Basic formula if you want:

Lockout = CP * 1.1

CP = Lockout / 1.1

So if you currently use a lockout and are happy with 60 on it, then according to the formula (again, not an exact science -- cannot stress that enough), you might try:

CP = 60 / 1.1 = 54.5 (roughly)

If you normally string on a CP machine and are happy with 55, then when going to LO, you might try:

Lockout = 55 * 1.1 = 60.5 (roughly)

Hope this helps
-sstchur
Thanks!! I'll keep that in mind!

#### esgee48

##### G.O.A.T.
Xpherex: Drop weights are constant pull machines. So yes, they will pull tighter than a lock out machine which stop pulling once it reaches the reference tension.

#### Rabbit

##### G.O.A.T.
Rabbit,

I was thinking of getting a Wise 2086. How do you like yours? I have seen a bunch of posts about people having problems with their Wise. Would you say that is the minority of people? Thanks!

Jack

I love mine. There was a hiccup with it initially which required a return, but it has performed flawlessly since. I've had mine a little over a year now.

#### lefty10spro

##### Semi-Pro
I have owned two Wise tensioners. They are NOT built to last. Of course they don't cost much, so no big surprise. You will send it back every year, sometimes more than that. The last one I bought was complete garbage and everything was falling apart. You will deal with surly Herb Wise. I now string on a Prince 5000 (I own a shop) and it was worth every penny. Wise may work if your volume of rackets is low, but it does not hold up to heavy usage.

#### Jack2010

##### New User
Lefty, thanks for the advice. That seems to make sense since its so inexpensive. It seems that its a tossup as to whether you'll get a decent one or a lemon, so to speak. I think that I'll just stick with my Gamma crank machine...a few hundred rackets later, still working like new!

#### seekay

##### Semi-Pro
I recently moved from a lockout to a Wise, and I've found that the type of string you're working with is the largest factor in determining how much tension should be adjusted.

In my experience, the more a string stretches as its being pulled to tension, the less of an adjustment you need to make. Multifilaments and most synthetic guts pull to tension and more or less stay at tension.

Co-polys, in contrast, stretch much more slowly, so it's common for a lockout machine to hit tension and lock while the string is still elongating. I did some science and found that when I pulled ISO Speed Baseline 16 (overly) quickly on my lockout, it lost ~10% of its tension over the next five seconds. Most co-poly strings exhibit the same behavior, but less dramatically.

It's possible to try and emulate a constant pull machine by cranking more slowly, but I found it hard to be consistent doing that. That was one of the factors that motivated me to buy the Wise.

Because strings differ so much, there's no way to come up with an accurate rule of thumb. Experiment with different settings and find one that works for you.

Also, FWIW, my Wise has been absolutely dreamy through a few dozen stringings over the past two months. Time will tell if it holds up.

#### Jack2010

##### New User
I recently moved from a lockout to a Wise, and I've found that the type of string you're working with is the largest factor in determining how much tension should be adjusted.

In my experience, the more a string stretches as its being pulled to tension, the less of an adjustment you need to make. Multifilaments and most synthetic guts pull to tension and more or less stay at tension.

Co-polys, in contrast, stretch much more slowly, so it's common for a lockout machine to hit tension and lock while the string is still elongating. I did some science and found that when I pulled ISO Speed Baseline 16 (overly) quickly on my lockout, it lost ~10% of its tension over the next five seconds. Most co-poly strings exhibit the same behavior, but less dramatically.

It's possible to try and emulate a constant pull machine by cranking more slowly, but I found it hard to be consistent doing that. That was one of the factors that motivated me to buy the Wise.

Because strings differ so much, there's no way to come up with an accurate rule of thumb. Experiment with different settings and find one that works for you.

Also, FWIW, my Wise has been absolutely dreamy through a few dozen stringings over the past two months. Time will tell if it holds up.
That makes sense. I'm doing the "double pulling" with my crank as demontrated by Irvin on Youtube and it seems to result in significantly stiffer results...hopefully more accurate results than before.

#### Irvin

##### Talk Tennis Guru
That makes sense. I'm doing the "double pulling" with my crank as demontrated by Irvin on Youtube and it seems to result in significantly stiffer results...hopefully more accurate results than before.

That should not happen. If you are getting stiffer results with the lockout over the constant pull then the lockout is pulling more. Check your calibration. Also most calibration are made at 60 lbs of tension. Check the calibration at the tension you are pulling when stringing your racket.

#### Jack2010

##### New User
That should not happen. If you are getting stiffer results with the lockout over the constant pull then the lockout is pulling more. Check your calibration. Also most calibration are made at 60 lbs of tension. Check the calibration at the tension you are pulling when stringing your racket.
Oh Irvin, its not stiffer than constant pull. Its just stiffer than what I used to get with my lockout. I don't have a constant pull to compare with. I do have a Gamma tool for calibration and its been perfectly accurate according to the tool.

#### Irvin

##### Talk Tennis Guru
OK my bad. It should be stiffer because you are taking more of the stretch out of the string. If you liked the old feel of the lockout but want to reduce your tension lock lower the tension by a few pounds at a time until you get the tension you want.

Also pulling at the same speed every time on a lockout is not necessary. It is easy to see when the lockout is about to 'lockout.' So pull tension on the crank until it is about to lockout but don't go all the way. Then try to lockout the tension at about 5 seconds each time.

#### Jack2010

##### New User
OK my bad. It should be stiffer because you are taking more of the stretch out of the string. If you liked the old feel of the lockout but want to reduce your tension lock lower the tension by a few pounds at a time until you get the tension you want.

Also pulling at the same speed every time on a lockout is not necessary. It is easy to see when the lockout is about to 'lockout.' So pull tension on the crank until it is about to lockout but don't go all the way. Then try to lockout the tension at about 5 seconds each time.
Yup, that's basically what I'm doing...the tension definitely seems to be holding steadier! I'm also doing +2 pounds on the last two mains on either side and on the crosses...almost like a modified JC method. So far, the results are quite good!!

#### gkamieneski

##### Semi-Pro
OK my bad. It should be stiffer because you are taking more of the stretch out of the string. If you liked the old feel of the lockout but want to reduce your tension lock lower the tension by a few pounds at a time until you get the tension you want.

Also pulling at the same speed every time on a lockout is not necessary. It is easy to see when the lockout is about to 'lockout.' So pull tension on the crank until it is about to lockout but don't go all the way. Then try to lockout the tension at about 5 seconds each time.

First I realize this thread is over a year old. I too have watched your video Irvin on trying to mimic a constant pull machine with a lockout. I confess that I find it hard to remember not to just lockout. Question I have is how does pre-stretching impact the need to do this procedure? I have always pre-stretched my full length of mains and crosses outside the machine before stringing (except with poly).

#### Irvin

##### Talk Tennis Guru
Pre stretching should not really have an impact. The string will return to its originally length fairly fast.

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