lol USA today wrote about my letter to Federer

falstaff78

Hall of Fame
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/02/roger-federer-india-pakistan-cricket-world-cup-jersey

I have read a bunch of the responses on the thread. I'm writing this post in response to those few people who managed to make some interesting points without being openly hostile and insulting. Thanks for that. I will try and address some of the issues raised.

I recognize that writing this post is almost by definition a futile exercise. Arguing with the internet is no more effective than a lone wolf howling at the ocean trying to get the tides to recede.

(The rest of you. Feel free to carry on with the insults and the ad hominem attacks. Every now and then some vindictive *****hole comes up with a hilarious gem!)

Anyway:

1) First, a clarification. My issue with federer is not that he "held up the India shirt" as the USA today article suggests. Rather, that he made a public show of support for India over Pakistan in a high voltage match.

The USA today article says Federer creates issue by "wearing Indian shirt" This was just lazy journalism.

I quote from my letter:

"it’s completely understandable that you would want to root for India. They are an incredible side. You’ve personally met the legend Sachin Tendulkar. It’s a very welcoming country and you were given an adoring welcome there....no, I’m not upset that you chose to support India over Pakistan. I’m upset that you chose to support India over Pakistan, publicly."

So the issue was not that he held the India shirt. It was that he basically came out and said "I support India over Pakistan" during the most high profile high voltage game they will play for the next 4 years.

a lot of people may not see the difference. but there is a difference. and this difference matters to people who are crazy about sports. which brings us to the next question...


2. Why, in the first place, am I or other people upset that Federer decided to support India openly?

This is a fair question.

One of the things I left out of the letter, and in retrospect, this was a mistake, was how much of a cricket fan I am. On balance I would say I am probably a bigger fan of cricket than I am of tennis.

Roger is the single sportsman I have loved more than any other. More than any individual cricket player to have represented Pakistan. Much more. But the sporting entity that I have supported from time I was 6 and will support to the exclusion of all other sporting entities till I die, is the Pakistan cricket team.

I would probably have agreed to live on bread and water for the next 6 months if it meant Roger would win another channel slam. But I would have taken a Pakistan world cup win over Roger winning the next 5 slams, Rome, Monte Carlo and Olympic singles Gold. If you toss in a couple of dominant wins over Rafa at Roland Garros it starts to get close.

Between 1996 and 2007 I attended each and every world cup final, in the hopes that I would watch Pakistan win. (Back in the days when Pakistan had a better side.) 1996: in lahore 1999: in London 2003: in Joburg 2007: in Barbados

why each final? i figured if there's one experience I should have in my life it's to watch Pakistan win the world cup. going to the final would give a shot, however small. going to any other match would give me no chance.

And I'm not even close to the biggest cricket fan I know. I mean there are people out there who are seriously crazy.

You have crazy sportsfans in all parts of the world. But in Pakistan, supporting cricket means something else as well. For the last 15 years we have watched our image in the world slowly deteriorate. No point having the discussion why - it's a combination of internal ineptitude and foreign circumstances. All that matters is that it isn't directly the fault of joe citizen. But joe citizen still has to live with the consequences. Our cricket team therefore, is not just a sporting unit, but our chance to show the world we are the best at something. And we don't get those chances often.

It is reasonable that folks who live in a pluralistic society can't relate to the partisan fervor in monocultures.

This is a great quote. As a Pakistani, the national cricket team is much more to you than, say, the Boston Red Sox are to a New Englander. You can feel free to judge this. And call it pathetic. And condescend to it. And liken it to religion. But the reality is what it is. For a lot of people, our very sense of national identity and pride is inextricably linked to the cricket teams fortunes.

So when Roger said, on the day of our biggest game in 4 years, that he would support our biggest rivals against us, THERE WERE ALWAYS GOING TO BE PEOPLE IT DIDN'T SIT WELL WITH.

and then there was the additional logic about china that I laid out in my letter, which just throws salt on the wounds. I mean let's be clear. I GET THAT NIKE MADE HIM DO IT. But as I argued in my letter: would Nike make him do this against china? not a chance

implication: pakistan is small enough not to worry about. And the sad part is that this is conclusion is totally, completely, 100% true! As I say in the letter:

And the truth is, in tennis economic terms, compared to Indian fans, we Pakistani fans are indeed expendable. But hearing that truth spelled out publicly, and almost directly, by you, hurts like hell.


Why does it hurt do you ask? Well it's back to the point about national identity. Look it's really hard for someone from a first world economy, or even golden-boy-of-western-world-India to understand where we are coming from. Pakistan is insulted enough in the world media for such an implication to hurt.

(Queue dozens of poasters from the US, UK, India, Australia, who have no idea what this feels like, fire off howls of reductive, simplistic condescension. Bring it on trolls!)



3. Why am I singling out India?

people keep asking why I am so obsessed with India. And would I have reacted this way if he were holding an England jersey.

Simple. They are our sporting rivals. Look around you. At this place I mean. Why are Fed fans obsessed with Nadal and vice versa? It's a sporting rivalry!! I've been to India - and loved it! I have tons of close indian friends. And that's not just lip service. Like really close friends, who came to Pakistan for my wedding, and whose weddings I attended in India. And I appreciate India's genius batsmen!

But. India. Are. Our. Sporting. Rivals.

it has nothing to do with war. And nukes. And stupid political stuff like that. I couldn't care less about who did what to whom when. I am a sports fan, and I know whom my guys HAVE TO BEAT, or I'll get depressed for days.

There is a spectrum of actions Federer could have taken, which would upset a Pakistani person to varying degrees. Merely holding an Indian shirt would not be as upsetting. Holding an England shirt and pledging his undying support would not be as upsetting. But holding an Indian shirt and pledging his support was the most upsetting of the three.




4. Why would I stop being a fan, instead of just getting over it? why such an extreme reaction

I get that it is extremely difficult to be a international sports star. You have to somehow manage being the best or second best at what you do, along with all the ridiculous commitments about marketing media branding etc. I mean, one of the reasons I loved Federer was the effortless way he did all of this perfectly.

If I were to apply the rational part of my mind, I can totally see how he would make a small slip up and offend a niche of cricket crazy pakistanis. And how one of them who is also crazy about him might not be able to love him the same way any more.

But that's the cost of doing business in the modern world. I get that. I have no hard feelings about it.

The rational parts of our minds can decide to do things like control hate or vitriolic speech. Give people respect. Let go of anger. But sporting love comes from a part of the mind, or soul, or whatever, which is completely irrational and impervious to reason.

Why should the fortunes of a tennis player, who shares neither country nor race with me, and who doesn't know I exist, make such a difference to my life that I would be willing to give up all food but bread for 6 months for him to succeed? It's just not rational.

People keep asking me how I can choose to stop supporting Federer. IT'S NOT A CHOICE. I can choose to respect him, and hold him in high esteem and say nice things about him. AND I'VE DONE ALL OF THE ABOVE IN MY LETTER. But I cannot CHOOSE to love him to AN IRRATIONAL DEGREE!

At the end of the day, I can no longer support Federer the way I did because he supports the biggest rival of the Pakistan cricket team, and he indirectly implied that Pakistani fans don't matter to him. And I wrote a letter. Fans do far worse things for sport. It's not that big a deal.

So, dear internet, get over yourself.
 
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Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Am I even understanding this article correctly?

It just seems unbelievably ludicrous.
 

falstaff78

Hall of Fame
Am I even understanding this article correctly?

It just seems unbelievably ludicrous.

What it is, is incredibly divisive. 50% of the responses are hugely supportive. 50% of responses are negative. And I'm not counting the ad hominem's and general internet nuttery.

Being a stats guy I've been trying to keep track of how people react to it.

It turns out that the most supportive people are the ones who are big fans of two sports. Cricket + tennis is obviously a great combination. But I've received emails from random people in New Zealand, saying they are fans of Roger and the All-Blacks, and if he ever publicly sided against the All-Blacks they would totally be upset.

People who either follow no sport or only one sport cannot fathom why I would feel the way I would.

Those who follow no sports say stuff like, people who follow sports are so immature. Alternatively they say stupid nationalistic stuff like, how can you hate India so much. (Which, lol, I don't and I said in the article, what a lovely and welcoming place I found it to be when I visited. Additionally loads of my friends are Indian, and Sehwag, Dravid and Laxman are three of my all time favourite players. But whatevs you can't argue with the internet right?)

Then there are people who follow one sport, mostly in this case tennis or cricket. The tennis people can't understand how anything unrelated to tennis could affect how I feel about Federer. Which is likely to be the most common reaction here. And the cricket people mostly get upset about the political nationalistic stuff.

Either way. I kinda put it out there for catharsis. And it's been very cathartic. I'm totally done following Roger (my last analysis notwithstanding, which I just posted in GPPD). It's not a conscious decision it's just visceral. Although I respect and admire the guy to death. I understand it's hard being an international celebrity and negotiating business / sponsors etc. Sometimes you offend small segments of people without meaning to. And it's not that big a deal. That's just the world we live in. And I'm cool with that.

F
 
Good letter.

However (not to be picayune) but you're referring to a newspaper not a sovereign nation. It should be USA Today, not USA today.
 
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RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
This guy wants the attention. He was no fed fan from the get go.

I could also get attention by writing some ridiculous stuff on a blog publicily.
 
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Nathaniel_Near

Guest
What it is, is incredibly divisive. 50% of the responses are hugely supportive. 50% of responses are negative. And I'm not counting the ad hominem's and general internet nuttery.

Being a stats guy I've been trying to keep track of how people react to it.

It turns out that the most supportive people are the ones who are big fans of two sports. Cricket + tennis is obviously a great combination. But I've received emails from random people in New Zealand, saying they are fans of Roger and the All-Blacks, and if he ever publicly sided against the All-Blacks they would totally be upset.

People who either follow no sport or only one sport cannot fathom why I would feel the way I would.

Those who follow no sports say stuff like, people who follow sports are so immature. Alternatively they say stupid nationalistic stuff like, how can you hate India so much. (Which, lol, I don't and I said in the article, what a lovely and welcoming place I found it to be when I visited. Additionally loads of my friends are Indian, and Sehwag, Dravid and Laxman are three of my all time favourite players. But whatevs you can't argue with the internet right?)

Then there are people who follow one sport, mostly in this case tennis or cricket. The tennis people can't understand how anything unrelated to tennis could affect how I feel about Federer. Which is likely to be the most common reaction here. And the cricket people mostly get upset about the political nationalistic stuff.

Either way. I kinda put it out there for catharsis. And it's been very cathartic. I'm totally done following Roger (my last analysis notwithstanding, which I just posted in GPPD). It's not a conscious decision it's just visceral. Although I respect and admire the guy to death. I understand it's hard being an international celebrity and negotiating business / sponsors etc. Sometimes you offend small segments of people without meaning to. And it's not that big a deal. That's just the world we live in. And I'm cool with that.

F

.. I'm a big cricket fan and never did it even begin to enter my mind that Federer had betrayed England or that I can no longer properly be along for the "ride" or whatever.

If Federer decided to support the Australian rugby team I wouldn't give a damn. He donned the Indian CWC kit.. so what.

I'm cool with him doing that, and you clearly aren't... not so cool with your (imo) preposterous stance, though. But, whatever.
 
K

King Fed WW

Guest
Sorry but this is stupid.
 
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falstaff78

Hall of Fame
This guy wants the attention. He was no fed fan from the get go.

I could also get attention by writing some ridiculous stuff on a blog publicily.

lol yeah I guess it could be seen as an attention seeking tactic. although it's more like hanging your balls out there. the internet does not take kindly to differences of opinion. as the viciousness of some of the posts here, and a little bit even your own post, attest.

of course you'll say I deserve it, how can I think the way i think, yada yada yada. all fair points, potentially. but it doesn't change the fact that writing something personal in the public sphere is not a trivial exercise.

I suggest you try it!

:)
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
This guy wants the attention. He was no fed fan from the get go.

I could also get attention by writing some ridiculous stuff on a blog publicily.

Go on then, say you have converted to being a Rafa fan because you have seen the error of your ways by not supporting him all along.
 

falstaff78

Hall of Fame
Yes, but you don't worship Roger so you are totally different. His worship of Roger is the main problem, all this other nonsense regarding cricket isn't surprising when we realize his original worship Did you read the stuff about Mirka helping his marriage?

quick clarification - I said it's an inspiration - not that it helped my marriage
 
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Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Yes, but you don't worship Roger so you are totally different. His worship of Roger is the main problem, all this other nonsense regarding cricket isn't surprising when we realize his original worship Did you read the stuff about Mirka helping his marriage?

Well maybe my way of showing it is different but Roger Federer is by far my favourite sports person ever and this is coming from a guy who is a total sports nut who has followed numerous sports closely for many years now.

I'm a sports freak and cannot understand this.

Federer is under no obligation to not have biases. He's decided to get behind India more than the other teams for the CWC it seems.. so what.

So what. He can like what the heck he wants, as long as he preferably doesn't murder people or commit **** or any other such things. He shows that he is showing some support for one team over another? Just double-u tee eff. The amazing thing is that it seems that a majority of Pakistani fans that Falstaff asked are now hugely turned off Federer, even though they were devoted fans before.

Everybody is different and the India-Pakistan rivalry and relations are a big deal, but I cannot begin to get my head around this.


Just contacted somebody about this - their response:

"Just because of that? That's so childish...Unbelievable. If they leave Roger because of that then they aren't his true fans."

Will be interesting to see further responses.
 
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falstaff78

Hall of Fame
but I cannot begin to get my head around this.

it's a good thing you don't have to. the internet is big enough for both of us.

Just contacted somebody about this - their response:

"Just because of that? That's so childish...Unbelievable. If they leave Roger because of that then they aren't his true fans."

Will be interesting to see further responses.

i could share literally 50 quotes from people like "thank you for articulating how I feel" "you made me tear up" "one of the best sports articles I have ever read etc." but what would they prove? that different people think differently? whoopdeedoo!!
 
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Nathaniel_Near

Guest
it's a good thing you don't have to. the internet is big enough for both of us.

I don't really get the point of that response. I'm not bothered about the medium, but the principle. Perhaps you just felt a need to defend, but this seems to miss the target. The medium for this exchange happens to be the internet, but so what.

i could share literally 50 quotes from people like "thank you for articulating how I feel" "you made me tear up" "one of the best sports articles I have ever read etc." but what would they prove? that different people think differently? whoopdeedoo!!



Again, this feels like a sort of desperate defence. I think everybody knows people think differently and that some things will yield a more divisive response than others. Like I said, it will be interesting to see further responses. It's not like I'm surprised people have offered comments of support, especially given that you already stated that a majority of the fans you asked about this incident are in agreement with your general stance.
 
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SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
I still don't get… Which part of Roger wearing some team's jersey justifies this reaction? Would you hate a friend for doing the same? Would you react this childishly if any poster here openly showed his support for another team?

You may try to convince yourself that your actions are justified and that the internet is simply not tolerant, but the reality is that this is no more than a childish response, where your idol does something you don't like, you feel insulted for some odd reason and react this way as a result.

All I can conclude from this is that you don't like Roger for the tennis he plays, because otherwise what he does in his private life would not matter. A shame really.
 

falstaff78

Hall of Fame
I don't really get the point of that response. I'm not bothered about the medium, but the principle. Perhaps you just felt a need to defend, but this seems to miss the target. The medium for this exchange happens to be the internet, but so what.

apologies. I must have misunderstood your post. I initially got the impressio you were saying you have no patience for this. but I was skimming. didn't mean to be offensive.
 
K

King Fed WW

Guest
Well maybe my way of showing it is different but Roger Federer is by far my favourite sports person ever and this is coming from a guy who is a total sports nut who has followed numerous sports closely for many years now.

I'm a sports freak and cannot understand this.

Agree with this, same for me.
Federer is under no obligation to not have biases. He's decided to get behind India more than the other teams for the CWC it seems.. so what.


Everybody is different and the India-Pakistan rivalry and relations are a big deal, but I cannot begin to get my head around this.


Just contacted somebody about this - their response:

"Just because of that? That's so childish...Unbelievable. If they leave Roger because of that then they aren't his true fans."

Will be interesting to see further responses.

That is my point, they aren't fans in the first place, they are subscribers to a cult. The problem is Fed has insulted another cult of theirs.

Also Fed isn't supporting India, it is a Nike thing. He will be supporting South Africa.

So what. He can like what the heck he wants, as long as he preferably doesn't murder people or commit **** or any other such things. He shows that he is showing some support for one team over another? Just double-u tee eff. The amazing thing is that it seems that a majority of Pakistani fans that Falstaff asked are now hugely turned off Federer, even though they were devoted fans before.

True, as long as no harms comes, it is fine.



quick clarification - I said it's an inspiration - not that it helped my marriage

If it helps great, but in reality you know nothing about Fed and Mirka's relationship.
 
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Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Yeah funnily enough he probably will be supporting South Africa first and foremost.
 

LapsedNoob

Professional
yeah a friend suggested I get two step security for my facebook and gmail accounts. I did that yesterday lol!

:)

It may also haunt you in the sense that folks google your name when you are up for employment, certification, or try to get published or have work peer reviewed. It doesn't look good coming from an academic, especially as a Cambridge PhD. It will be part of your online background forever.
 
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Sentinel

Bionic Poster
I doubt that Fed even had anything about Pakistan in mind when he wore that shirt. I am not sure he understands the kind of feeling A FEW people here may have for the other country.

It's not like India and Pakistan are at war.

In any case, I wonder whether Fed really realizes that India is so cricket crazy that his associating himself with cricket will mean nothing. It will not convert any cricket fan to a tennis one. He would be unknown.

He probably needs to chum up with the cricket stars so they attend the IPTL and increase ticket sales.

If the OP feels this way, then perhaps he harbours some ill-feelings towards India.

No one in India hates the USA for being with Pakistan, selling them armaments and fighter planes, etc. I can't believe you would get upset by Fed supporting a cricket team :D

I am not even sure that the OP actually wrote that ridiculous and embarrassing letter. In his place, I'd certainly not broadcast such a thing on forums. Or ever use my real name while posting such nonsense.

Maybe it shows that people can grow up without growing up.
 

Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
"Sadly, I won’t be one of them. I was in too deep. So this morning I deleted over a hundred Roger posts from my Facebook wall as well as the photo collection I had painstakingly put together. I also donated my RF cap and my collection of books about you.

I will always respect you, love your game and wish you success. I just won’t be along with you for the ride."

This does not seem like a healthy amount of emotional investment.

If you were to react like this every time someone made a (quite harmless) decision in their own interest that simply contradicted your own preferences, then your going to have a hard time...
 
K

King Fed WW

Guest
I take it the Brazilians have turned on him as well. lol

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Or wait the Argentine's also

article-0-1672E40D000005DC-836_306x423.jpg


Poor Rafa will also be under attack

tumblr_mideimIDUR1r1c0a6o1_500.jpg


o-NADAL-ARGENTINA-facebook.jpg
 
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cknobman

Legend
Soooooooooooo you're proud of making headlines for writing a

childish
immature
idiotic

letter because Federer held up a jersey from another country??????

I pity your life.
 
K

King Fed WW

Guest
Nat Near, if you are English I think your days support Roger are over.

article-0-19761FA5000005DC-886_634x356.jpg
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
King fed ww, damn them to hell!

and I have been a fan of those players?

DISGUSTING. I hate you Fedovic!!!
 

jeroenn

Professional
Originally Posted by falstaff78
quick clarification - I said it's an inspiration - not that it helped my marriage
If it helps great, but in reality you know nothing about Fed and Mirka's relationship.

This ^ combined with the way the OP has decided to 'leave' Fed, gives a scary insight in the OP's thought-process / decision-making skills, especially considering he's an adult.
 
D

Deleted member 733170

Guest
It's the mawkish vibe from the letter itself which creeps me out the most.

But good luck Falstaff, surely better things lie ahead for you.
 

sunny_cali

Semi-Pro

hmm... wt_f_ did i just read there ? i hope you were being facetious or sarcastic when you wrote that pile of doo-doo. Many of your posts here were quite reasonable, far removed from the usual trollery around this place, so I am doubly surprised. But, well, whatever rocks your boat I guess :neutral::-?

BTW, i am one of the few indians that loathe cricket if that helps you with your stats
 

m2nk2

Hall of Fame
.. I'm a big cricket fan and never did it even begin to enter my mind that Federer had betrayed England or that I can no longer properly be along for the "ride" or whatever.

If Federer decided to support the Australian rugby team I wouldn't give a damn. He donned the Indian CWC kit.. so what.

I'm cool with him doing that, and you clearly aren't... not so cool with your (imo) preposterous stance, though. But, whatever.

But England and India hasn't been on the brink of a nuclear war against each other for a decade. Maybe you would've thought different if they were.
 
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m2nk2

Hall of Fame
Doubt it.

__

Fair enough.

Anyway, what the OP has to realise is that Federer is a pro athlete and probably doesn't even know that it's a bit frosty between India and Pakistan.

He's got a team of PR people telling him to do this and that, Federer gets a ton of money and doesn't have to think twice about it. He's a poster boy for Wilson and Nike and was simply holding up a Nike logo, this time on an Indian cricket shirt...
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
I felt compelled to respond to this topic because in NL (Newfoundland and Labrador for those that don't know) we've recently had something similar to this happen with Don Cherry. And I think you have to know Don Cherry to completely understand, but let me just say this. He's incredibly divisive. Some people hate him, but he's revered by some others. I like him just so everybody knows where I'm coming from. But just recently he called his co host (Ron McLean, who was in NL) a "barbarian" for admitting to eating a seal burger on national television. Now the seal hunt is or was a big part of our heritage here. It's not so much anymore, but not that long ago when it was the only way for men to feed their families in some cases they'd go out on the ice in extreme cold and kill seals to bring back as food for their family. It's actually been partially documented in a book called "Death on the Ice" if anybody is interested or has read it already.

And what I've noticed is that people that share Cherry's opinion on the seal hunt because they see pictures of people hitting animals with axes or the like don't understand that it was the only way to survive sometimes.

Anyhow, the whole point of my story is that some people (not me) have stopped supporting Cherry just recently because of this after adoring him for years. Personally, I still like Cherry, but I can understand others problems with him now. IMO, he really knows his hockey, but he should keep his political opinions to himself.

As far as this goes, I'm not going to pretend to understand the history between India and Pakistan, but even as a person who is a sports nut and follows multiple sports for many years now, I don't really understand where you're coming from, and I hadn't read your letter before I started my post which is what this edit is about. The letter is just way over the top, no exceptions.

In my case, I don't take any sports incredibly serious so as to let something like this affect my support of Roger or other sports figures/teams. But of course, the main problem here is that India-Pakistan is not just sports. It's real life politics, and that's where the danger lies.

Over here in Canada, ice hockey is king. And the U.S. has football, baseball, and basketball, but I don't think either of those sports creates the divisive nature that cricket or soccer/football do. I'll be honest here, hockey is pretty important in Canada, but the seriousness that some take on over soccer/football or cricket is disturbing in comparison to me. That's not to say we haven't had our share of moments in Canada (like the Vancouver riots in 2011 after the Canucks lost game 7 to Boston). Or the U.S. story of Steve Bartman. I'll let anybody who doesn't know of these just research them.

But I've got to say, I've never seen a sport taken more serious than soccer or cricket. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like the riots are more common in those sports, with the flares and all.

But then again, it's as many have said before, India-Pakistan is not just a sports rivalry so I admit to not completely understanding it or anything of the sort. My choice is to not take anything too seriously, but maybe I'm not in position to say anything like that. I just don't understand the seriousness that's associated with some sports. And just as a finishing thought, like I said, hockey is important over here, but people that really take soccer or cricket seriously blow us out of the water. People can say what they like about soccer being the "beautiful" game or whatever, but I'll never get it. And most Canadians agree with me. Soccer is barely on the radar over here.

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.
 
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K

King Fed WW

Guest
My problem is Fed was asked by Nike to do this and he agreed, therefore why are people angry? He didn't give a second thought.

If Fed was retired, it would be Nadal holding up that shirt.

However still pretty sure OP is trolling. He must be.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
@ OP :

Being an Indian who follows cricket, I understand where you are coming from and I understand a split second reaction, but to write and post it and do it publicly and non-anonymously ?
 
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