Longevity GOATs : Will Djokovic have better 2025 than Federer in 2019 ?

Can Djokovic have better year than Federer?


  • Total voters
    41
  • Poll closed .

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
no only that he was alpha male for several generations and did not let anyone take it from him. as a young lion he fighted out both his older and same aged opponents. and then he not let anyone younger do the same to him.
Why are so many Djokovic fans obsessed with the idea of the alpha male?

Really demonstrates the troubling lens through which they view the world.
 

FlyingSaucer

Semi-Pro
no only that he was alpha male for several generations and did not let anyone take it from him. as a young lion he fighted out both his older and same aged opponents. and then he not let anyone younger do the same to him.
What exactly does this mean, actually? Didn't he get dethroned by Murray?

Nadal also kept the Next Gen at bay, by the way.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
The beta male should have lost to Federer in 2019 Wimbledon. Now that the beta male is 6 years older who's wayyyyy worse than his 2019 version is in no position to comparable to 2019 Federer. LOL
 

Enceladus

Legend
It is amazing how the inferiority complex is so well ingrained that even now, Djokovic fans look to Federer as a measuring stick.
And what other measuring stick do you suggest? Rosewall, who played with wooden rackets and a small number of HC matches? Sampras, who quit tennis shortly after 30? What you wrote is a cheap kick to the Djoko fanbase. :rolleyes:
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
I don't see longevity and winning as exactly the same thing.

For instance, Agassi showed longevity until he hit 36, as he was still playing well, however his last slam was when he was 33.

Federer was pretty much done after AO 2020, but I count AO 2020 as part of his longevity as he was still pushing hard, even with the drop off in that event.

Djokovic can easily match the longevity, as long as he doesn't get injured himself in 2025 in the same manner that ended Federer and Nadal's career.

I have always said that Djokovic, if he stays healthy, and avoids injury, can be a contender until he is 40. I also would say the same about Federer and Nadal, and even Murray, had they not been injured in a way that they were, they could have all been competing until they were 40.

Now, whether or not Djokovic wins any more big titles of any kind is another question.
 

FlyingSaucer

Semi-Pro
no, since 2011 nole was the alpha male... rafa had a some moments, muzza much less than so, but nole was alpha!
"Alpha male" guff is just that -- guff. You said he didn't allow anyone to "take it from him," or whatever. I don't think that's correct. Murray was a brand new world #1 as a result of his 2016 exploits, not to mention that both Federer and Nadal were world #1 in the 2012-2014 timeframe.
 

Pheasant

Legend
I think this year will be his last hurrah. I think that Djoker can still bag a slam title. I think that #25 is in the cards this year. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Djoker bag the Wimbledon title. A hard court slam title is possible, but a much tougher ask.

Wimbledon + Masters or WTF + 1 small title is what I see Djoker getting this year. And that would squeak by Fed's 2019 season.
 

GRASScaraz

Hall of Fame
I think this year will be his last hurrah. I think that Djoker can still bag a slam title. I think that #25 is in the cards this year. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Djoker bag the Wimbledon title. A hard court slam title is possible, but a much tougher ask.

Wimbledon + Masters or WTF + 1 small title is what I see Djoker getting this year. And that would squeak by Fed's 2019 season.
Ain't no way he wins a WTF at 38 against peak Sinner
 

Unseeded Player

Hall of Fame
Nadal's best years were 2008-2010, 2013. After that no one showed up. And guess what, Djokovic goes on a tear winning more slams after 30 than before. LOL. Nothing is more clear.
2011 was not worse than 2010 by level, but Novak smoked him. He won last slam in 2022 so that means he was still competitive.
 

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
"Alpha male" guff is just that -- guff. You said he didn't allow anyone to "take it from him," or whatever. I don't think that's correct. Murray was a brand new world #1 as a result of his 2016 exploits, not to mention that both Federer and Nadal were world #1 in the 2012-2014 timeframe.
Well no, you see Novak was the alpha, except for when he chose not to be. Muzz, Fred and Ralph were only allowed to win when the Alpha was too bored from being so Alpha all the time.

If you simply don't count those times, then Novak was always in charge.
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
no only that he was alpha male for several generations and did not let anyone take it from him. as a young lion he fighted out both his older and same aged opponents. and then he not let anyone younger do the same to him.
Yes, I’m sure other ATGs would have shivered in fear facing young lions like KyriosGOAT and Berretini in major finals :-D

He got a free ride lol.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
That is a fallacy that a coach will have to teach same style as himself. Do as you say not as you do.
Exactly. Look at Brad Gilbert coaching Andre Agassi. Gilbert didn't teach Agassi to "win ugly", but to play smarter and better tactically instead of going for the high risk shotmaking and flashy plays.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
I don't see longevity and winning as exactly the same thing.

For instance, Agassi showed longevity until he hit 36, as he was still playing well, however his last slam was when he was 33.

Federer was pretty much done after AO 2020, but I count AO 2020 as part of his longevity as he was still pushing hard, even with the drop off in that event.

Djokovic can easily match the longevity, as long as he doesn't get injured himself in 2025 in the same manner that ended Federer and Nadal's career.

I have always said that Djokovic, if he stays healthy, and avoids injury, can be a contender until he is 40. I also would say the same about Federer and Nadal, and even Murray, had they not been injured in a way that they were, they could have all been competing until they were 40.

Now, whether or not Djokovic wins any more big titles of any kind is another question.
Fed has already surpassed Andre at 36.
 

SeeItHitIt

Professional
I said more titles, no slam.

My logic is if he might play more 250’s, which are 1 week and with (much) lesser players. If he’s healthy, he still wins 2/4 250’s he enters. His health is the big question. He’s in awesome shape, but at his age and playing a grueling physical sport, he’s only as good as his last shot.

I don’t think his tank has the chops to survive a 2 week event with the world’s best players. Throw in a 2nd round H2H with a Perricard type.
 
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inflation_era

Professional
2011 was not worse than 2010 by level, but Novak smoked him. He won last slam in 2022 so that means he was still competitive.

True, 2011 was perhaps Nadal's best year in terms of level on all surfaces. But after 2015 Nadal really needed a lot of luck and weak draws on non-clay surfaces to win.
 

RoddickAce

Hall of Fame
With his singular focus on setting/breaking records, Djoko will probably not push himself as hard as Fed did at each tournament, and try to peak only at slams, specifically where he has the greatest chances, depending on his own form and the form of Sinner/Alcaraz. He might end up with a worse win/loss or less matches played, and win only one title but that ends up being a slam.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Start of the year has been better for Djokovic making semifinal of Australia. But the injury will likely result in same complications like last year.
 

GrassMasters

New User
Really all depends if Sinner gets to keep playing, and if he keeps his consistency. Also if Alcaraz can pull it together for the next few slams.
If Novak senses just a small crack in this shield you can bet he's going to take advantage of it.
 

Tano

Hall of Fame
Federer 2019 is benchmark of Modern tennis longevity.

The year started with a close 4 set loss to Tsitsipas. Not too bad looking back as Tsitsipas reached SF that year.
Then the success - Beating everyone in Dubai, being a set up vs Thiem in IW finals before losing in a good match, winning Miami. He goes 15-1 in this time as good as anyone on the planet at the time.
Then the famous Roland Garros run reaching semifinal once again after 7 years.
Then on grass wins Halle and moving on to the Wimbledon beats Berrettini, Nishikori and Nadal. 1 pt away from becoming oldest slam winner in open era.
Finally on indoors court in Basel, wins his last title ever and then in ATP finals, beats world number 1 Djokovic for the last time.

All in all - great years in modern tennis history. 4 titles, 53 match wins, 84% win rate and Wimbledon final.

This is very tall order for even Djokovic today. I am almost certain he is not playing 63 matches like Federer did in 2019. Last time Djokovic played over 63 matches was back in 2019, 6 years ago. So if Djokovic can't match the volume of Federer, its already tough task to have better year at this age.

Can he do it?


Short and concise answer: No.
 

Tano

Hall of Fame
Based on the level he is showing in Brisbane he is in for one hell of a year.

I think a major is out of reach but he will win way more titles in 2025 than 2024.

I think 2024 will still be considered a far more important year though, because of the OGs, but Djokovic looks rejuvenated.

For sure this is the best he has looked in Australia since 2019 imo.
Which ones?
It is already very difficult for tennis players of their age to win titles, even those in lower categories such as the 500 and 250.
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Which ones?
It is already very difficult for tennis players of their age to win titles, even those in lower categories such as the 500 and 250.
I think the hardcourt m1000 and also some of the clay m1000.

I still rate Djokovic very highly in Bo3. I think on clay he might possibly be in the top 2 or 3 in the world on clay in Bo3.

Novak has the capability to win smaller grasscourt events, too, but he rarely plays them so not sure there is much chance there.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
The best of 3 events are actually tougher on the geezer legs than the slams because the slams give you rest days.

Assuming Djokovic can recover fully from his hamstring issue (a big if), then Wimbledon is his best chance to make a big run. Points are short. Days off. Grass easy on the joints.

If I’m Djokovic, I might even consider skipping the French to gear up for one last slam push at SW19.

The US Open will be a tougher ask, more of young guy conditions with the humidity.

I don’t think Djokovic cares about winning smaller tourneys anymore. If he plays them, then it would be all about trying to snag another H2H win vs Sinneraz to cement his legacy.
 

Pheasant

Legend
A healthy Djoker is a top-3 player on both clay and grass courts. And the #1 only leads him by a paper-thin margin. We all know that Alcaraz is super inconsistent. Tiafoe, of all grass court players, took Alcaraz to 5 last year. I’d say that Djoker is #2 on grass courts and #1 Alcaraz is due for a letdown on that surface. As far as clay goes, Djoker can beat anybody there(see 2024 Olympics). If he gets Alcaraz and Sinner back-to-back, then he’s probably toast. But it’s worth a shot to lace up the sneakers and enter both the FO and Wimbledon. I’m confident that he will bag one of those 2. My biggest questionmark is his health
 

Krish0608

G.O.A.T.
Fed had a stellar 2019. Had Djokodal not been there and had he simply been competing with inflation era mugs like Berrettini and NK, he would have ended up with the channel slam and probably gone on to win AO 2020 as well. That's how good he was aroudnd 38 years old. Pretty impressive what Novak is doing at this age as well. But it further goes to show just how tough it is to string multiple great wins at this age and just incredible it is that Fed was close to beating Djokodal back to back at 38. Insane.
 

SpinWizard

Semi-Pro
Fed had a stellar 2019. Had Djokodal not been there and had he simply been competing with inflation era mugs like Berrettini and NK, he would have ended up with the channel slam and probably gone on to win AO 2020 as well. That's how good he was aroudnd 38 years old. Pretty impressive what Novak is doing at this age as well. But it further goes to show just how tough it is to string multiple great wins at this age and just incredible it is that Fed was close to beating Djokodal back to back at 38. Insane.
No lies detected :cool: ;)
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
But it further goes to show just how tough it is to string multiple great wins at this age and just incredible it is that Fed was close to beating Djokodal back to back at 38. Insane.
Nadal being bad and Djokovic being hot garbage helped a lot, too.
 

Krish0608

G.O.A.T.
Nadal being bad and Djokovic being hot garbage helped a lot, too.
That's an awful lot of cope. They were experienced GOATs who were in better physical shape than Grandpa and had been having a great year themselves winning AO and RG respectively. Fed doing what he did is simply incredible whichever way you slice it. He beat Wawrinka and Ruud (inflation era hero) in RG, beat Nishikori, Berrettini (inflation era titan), Rafa at Wimbledon and barely scraped a loss to Novak in the final. Special mention to the incredible win against Novak indoors at the YEC when he was well past 38. Sure Novak will be motivated to go one up on Roger this year. Hopefully his body holds up and we have some great contests this year.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Fed had a stellar 2019. Had Djokodal not been there and had he simply been competing with inflation era mugs like Berrettini and NK, he would have ended up with the channel slam and probably gone on to win AO 2020 as well. That's how good he was aroudnd 38 years old. Pretty impressive what Novak is doing at this age as well. But it further goes to show just how tough it is to string multiple great wins at this age and just incredible it is that Fed was close to beating Djokodal back to back at 38. Insane.
2019 was good fun. Last year the big 3 went to war.
 

Tano

Hall of Fame
A healthy Djoker is a top-3 player on both clay and grass courts. And the #1 only leads him by a paper-thin margin. We all know that Alcaraz is super inconsistent. Tiafoe, of all grass court players, took Alcaraz to 5 last year. I’d say that Djoker is #2 on grass courts and #1 Alcaraz is due for a letdown on that surface. As far as clay goes, Djoker can beat anybody there(see 2024 Olympics). If he gets Alcaraz and Sinner back-to-back, then he’s probably toast. But it’s worth a shot to lace up the sneakers and enter both the FO and Wimbledon. I’m confident that he will bag one of those 2. My biggest questionmark is his health
When have you seen a player aged 38 or older go far at Roland Garros?
 
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