Looking for a racket that hits deep

[movdqa]

I logged two hours with the 355 gram 350 SW yonex tonight. The weather was extremely humid, and the string bed (kirschbaum red) was very old and mercifully broke by the end of the session.

It's been a long while since I used this frame, so it will take more sessions than one, but here are my initial findings :

- You need to have the technique. I have been playing tennis since I was a kid and recently took lessons with a player who was in the top 500. I don't play nearly as much now, but I still play 4.5 USTA leagues once or twice a year. Anyway, I am not the best player in the world but I know how to use my core to hit the ball and keep my arms loose. That is super key with SW this high. You have to be committed to moving your feet, turning your shoulders quickly and getting in position to hit the ball. This is also why a player who does these things can succeed in tennis with an array of different specs.

- High SW benefits a compact stroke. My 2 handed backhand is pretty abbreviated and my forehand is not far behind. It is extremely easy to hit the ball deep without using much energy if you have that style of stroke. By that I mean, you just need to know how to throw your hip into the shot to generate the pace.

- You have to trust the frame. If you are used to lighter frames it is easy to overswing at times. For example, shots that pull you wide where you need to go for a big one can be hit a lot more relaxed with the heavier frame. Overswinging without applying heavy spin will result in a long ball or an off line shot.

- Your serve needs to be on point. I had not served in weeks and it was not any easier with the heavier frame for a while. I was able to settle in and hit some heavy twists to get me out of a jam and hold serve.

I have plenty of time to mess around and see how this goes. It is extremely rare for me to try a high SW frame and not like it initially. The way the frame pancakes the ball and feels so solid is always a better sensation than a light, vibrating racquet. I will need to restring the frame, play more guys and see if I can lock in with it and play more consistently. It's not magic or a game changer though. You will need to be dialed in and committed to working hard or the extra weight will just make it even more difficult.

A lot of spot-on points.

High SW can benefit a long stroke as well - and I'll leave Soderling as an example for this.

 

[LeeD]

Well, you SHOULD be comparing yourselves to a 6'5" professional tennis player who's been training at tennis all his life.
And you should drive Nikki Lauda's Formula one can to the supermarket.

 

[Deleted member 3771]

String way looser and swing for the fences. The misses with the lower tension might hit the back fence, but the extra feedback from the misses with the softer string-bed will help with making bigger adjustments after the misses. Should also help develop more feel for the ball.

 

[LeeD]

He's sorta resistant to any tensions below 50.
He does have a slight elbow problem, and you'd think he'd embrace the idea of low string tension, but he doesn't.
Probably due to extreme topspin on his forehand side.
Yonex in black is his latest fashion statement.

 

[Deleted member 3771]

He's sorta resistant to any tensions below 50.
He does have a slight elbow problem, and you'd think he'd embrace the idea of low string tension, but he doesn't.
Probably due to extreme topspin on his forehand side.
Yonex in black is his latest fashion statement.

tell him that 35 is the new 50.

 

[LeeD]

I grabbed one of my THREE different racket's strung at 35 lbs and handed it to him.
He politely refused, saying low 50's is what he likes.
Can't teach a young dog new tricks....he's 40.

 

[GregSV]

A lot of spot-on points.

High SW can benefit a long stroke as well - and I'll leave Soderling as an example for this.

There's Del Potro as well..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn XT1562 met Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 3771]

I grabbed one of my THREE different racket's strung at 35 lbs and handed it to him.
He politely refused, saying low 50's is what he likes.
Can't teach a young dog new tricks....he's 40.

Are you talking about papa mango now or someone else?

I tried the aerogel 500 at around 35 lbs once for 15 minutes and that combo worked well. The dwell time was ridiculous. Something like this might work well for someone at papa mango's level. Nothing to lose trying it out.

 

[LeeD]

I handed Papa one of my Aero 500's, weighted to 12 oz and 325 SW's, and he refused to even touch it.
In my bag was a Prince Red0S + length, with STBite at 40, and a Dunlop F5T same strings at 35 lbs.
I also have two Bio300T's with STBite16 at 35 lbs and one with SpikyShark Yellow at 35.

 

[Deleted member 3771]

I handed Papa one of my Aero 500's, weighted to 12 oz and 325 SW's, and he refused to even touch it.
In my bag was a Prince Red0S + length, with STBite at 40, and a Dunlop F5T same strings at 35 lbs.
I also have two Bio300T's with STBite16 at 35 lbs and one with SpikyShark Yellow at 35.

He should have tried them out. I only tried the ag500 at 35 because some coach that was about to coach at the adjacent court wanted me to try the racket out because she saw me playing and thought that her racket might benefit me, otherwise id never have known what 35 felt like. This was a hybrid setup, and years ago,and i didn't find out what the strings were.

 

[Deleted member 3771]

watching papa mango against the guy in the red shirt, he wasn't going to be hitting any winners unless the other guy tripped over, so if i was him i'd be trying out all of your rackets.

 

[LeeD]

Problem is, if that vid was at night, he worked all day already, drove his two little girl's to different hobbies, dealt with wife and home, then went out to hit with Shroud after 8PM.
The Papa in those night vids was a lazy, short swinging, no footwork bored to death version, but hoping for some alone time away from the family.
In daylight, he's one of the fastest player's around at his level (solid 4.0), hit's heavy topspin forehands and slight topspin 1hbh's, can hit a 100 mph flat first serve but chooses to go with 80 mph twist serves, volleys with the best but is too lazy to come to net consistently, and never seems to play enough tennis to get his groove back. I think he plays an average of twice a week at night.
He just came back from 3 weeks in India with no tennis, Bombay. By Sat., when we get together with Matt Lin, VitaminL, Yaz, and Andre' Volynets, he will have played 4 days since coming back.

 

[wsk429]

I think he has better technique than I do at least on the FH. But you can see in this vid what he is talking about. We were going the the 100 ball rally challenge and just trying to be consistent but you can see how much shorter his balls are landing than mine (hes in the white)

What technique changes should he make?

Contact point at shoulder height for neutral rally balls. No need to hit so high if not under pressured.
No unit turn on both wings. Plow generated from arm muscling the ball. Ball wins in the end.
Knee too straight during setup and hit.
Not stepping into ball with closed stance despite having time.

 

[gino]

Contact point at shoulder height for neutral rally balls. No need to hit so high if not under pressured.
No unit turn on both wings. Plow generated from arm muscling the ball. Ball wins in the end.
Knee too straight during setup and hit.
Not stepping into ball with closed stance despite having time.

Exactly.. He could change his game and the depth generated off of groundstrokes with a few key adjustments

 

[LeeD]

Exactly wrong, and why I say the "100 ball" rally idea is stupid. Most player's back off their normal strokes to achieve 100 shots, so it's worthless.
IF...IF....IF, the player uses his normal technique to achieve 100 shots, it's a USEFUL practice idea.

 

[wsk429]

Exactly wrong, and why I say the "100 ball" rally idea is stupid. Most player's back off their normal strokes to achieve 100 shots, so it's worthless.
IF...IF....IF, the player uses his normal technique to achieve 100 shots, it's a USEFUL practice idea.

Agreed...to a certain point. The "100 ball" rally is not the best diagnostic but you can find some truths within the 100 shots. In this case, almost all 100 shots had the same shortcomings mentioned by several posters. The duration of the exercise is long enough that the player's performance is probably what it will be in a real match. Hence the less than full agreement.

 

[wsk429]

Problem is, if that vid was at night, he worked all day already, drove his two little girl's to different hobbies, dealt with wife and home, then went out to hit with Shroud after 8PM.
The Papa in those night vids was a lazy, short swinging, no footwork bored to death version, but hoping for some alone time away from the family.
In daylight, he's one of the fastest player's around at his level (solid 4.0), hit's heavy topspin forehands and slight topspin 1hbh's, can hit a 100 mph flat first serve but chooses to go with 80 mph twist serves, volleys with the best but is too lazy to come to net consistently, and never seems to play enough tennis to get his groove back. I think he plays an average of twice a week at night.
He just came back from 3 weeks in India with no tennis, Bombay. By Sat., when we get together with Matt Lin, VitaminL, Yaz, and Andre' Volynets, he will have played 4 days since coming back.

I think it's understood that the guy in the vid has life obligations like the rest of us. Any comments made can only apply to what we see from the video. You're definitely right. He could be an awesome player in the morning. But that night in the video...not so much. No disrespect intended to anyone.

 

[LeeD]

A pusher should not consider every other player as also another pusher.
Some of us end the points within 5 shots, usually more like 2-3.

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

Agreed...to a certain point. The "100 ball" rally is not the best diagnostic but you can find some truths within the 100 shots. In this case, almost all 100 shots had the same shortcomings mentioned by several posters. The duration of the exercise is long enough that the player's performance is probably what it will be in a real match. Hence the less than full agreement.

agreed... i havent done one in years and have chsnged several sticks since then... might try it. I am definitely getting better depth with the tc95 when i dont have time to set up perfectly.

 

[graycrait]

I think it depends who you hit the 100 ball rally with. I have a 76 yr old friend who can't move too well but he can hit clean crisp flat shots and volleys pretty well - he coached at one time many years ago. Retired uni math prof. We occasionally go for the 100 shot rally, made it once or twice. However I have to get the ball near his wheelhouse, which is a challenge for me to do that over and over, chasing down his late shots, which are getting more frequent. I think there is utility in the exercise if for no reason other than it is like playing catch with ball & glove with your brother or best friend. I sure ain't doing it to get to Wimbledon.

 

[Power Player]

I spent more time tonight with the beefed up Yonex. The secret is to commit to hitting the 3/4 ball over and over. Once I started doing that I was able to hit with great pace and consistency. Guy I was playing with commented on how much pace was coming over at him. We have been practicing together for probably 5 years now and he has never really commented about it like that. I am still not necessarily sold on the weight, but it is highly enjoyable. It has been a while since I have messed with higher SW frames, but what really is sticking out is how I can play a consistent game of heavy hitting tennis instead of picking my spots for when I want to dial up the pace.

 

[v-verb]

KPS88's hit a deep ball, but the weight and small head size are a turn off for many

 

[LeeD]

Papa's blue and white Dunlop 100 is a very good racket for hitting groundies, but at 90 sq's, might not be the best for match play where serves and volleys come into play.

 

[Power Player]

I think you have to find 95 and up frames that take well to lead. 100's can be too overbearing, but they can work. It's just easier to lead up a 98 size because you still have good maneuverability at that size.

 

[oble]

cracks me up every time I see that Bartoli had a higher SW than most of the guys on TT....

I wonder if she can still wield it in her current condition.

 

[Frost5541]

- You need to have the technique. I have been playing tennis since I was a kid and recently took lessons with a player who was in the top 500. I don't play nearly as much now, but I still play 4.5 USTA leagues once or twice a year. Anyway, I am not the best player in the world but I know how to use my core to hit the ball and keep my arms loose. That is super key with SW this high. You have to be committed to moving your feet, turning your shoulders quickly and getting in position to hit the ball. This is also why a player who does these things can succeed in tennis with an array of different specs.

PP has got it good!!! this is what makes it easy to swing a racquet of 427 pts SW!!!

 

[movdqa]

KPS88's hit a deep ball, but the weight and small head size are a turn off for many

Stiffness too. It did my arm in but it was a blast to play with.

 

[movdqa]

I think it depends who you hit the 100 ball rally with. I have a 76 yr old friend who can't move too well but he can hit clean crisp flat shots and volleys pretty well - he coached at one time many years ago. Retired uni math prof. We occasionally go for the 100 shot rally, made it once or twice. However I have to get the ball near his wheelhouse, which is a challenge for me to do that over and over, chasing down his late shots, which are getting more frequent. I think there is utility in the exercise if for no reason other than it is like playing catch with ball & glove with your brother or best friend. I sure ain't doing it to get to Wimbledon.

It may be useful for players that are really impatient - like high-school players. I was hitting two-on-one with a high-school player and the goal was 20 balls in NML and he wasn't able to do more than 3-5. We were moving him around quite a bit but he was used to first-strike tennis and went for the ball too much. If you're an older player with a lot of patience, then this drill might not do much for you but it is an interesting exercise. Geoff and BHBH play quite a bit and they look in fantastic shape, and I don't think that they'd waste their time on drills that didn't have any benefit.

 

[LeeD]

Consistent depth is easier to maintain against a player who hit's consistent depth, spin, AND pace.
Against a player who hit's loopy high topspin on one ball, then heavy chop short slice on another, is going to be difficult.
Then again, if your partner his just better in play level, hitting harder and bouncing higher than you can find comfortable, the game is up again.
There are really good player's who hit low skidding wide balls all the time. Once again, if you're trying to maintain a consistent depth rally with those guys, good luck hitting while running your wheels off digging their low shots.

 

[Papa Mango]

I grabbed one of my THREE different racket's strung at 35 lbs and handed it to him.
He politely refused, saying low 50's is what he likes.
Can't teach a young dog new tricks....he's 40.

It is not the tension, rather the rackets and the full poly you have in them. I prefer my shoulder/elbow to be pain free when I am able to get some time on the courts..

 

[Papa Mango]

Hit with a stock Yonex DR 98 the other day. I am liking it so far, much better and uniform response of the string bed than the textreme which can be erratic at times and the racket is a monster at the net.
Probably one of the best volleying sticks that I have hit with! Lets see how the extended demo goes

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

Consistent depth is easier to maintain against a player who hit's consistent depth, spin, AND pace.
Against a player who hit's loopy high topspin on one ball, then heavy chop short slice on another, is going to be difficult.
Then again, if your partner his just better in play level, hitting harder and bouncing higher than you can find comfortable, the game is up again.
There are really good player's who hit low skidding wide balls all the time. Once again, if you're trying to maintain a consistent depth rally with those guys, good luck hitting while running your wheels off digging their low shots.

yeah thats the way most of my hitting partners play me... they purposefully try to disrupt my rhythm by giving me shorter low skidding slices... if they feed me consistent depth and pace i crack consistent winners. When i do get to hit with elite 6.0+ players it is so refreshing because they hit clean depth... corner to corner.. all day long. its just nice to have it all on my footwork and prep... nice to get beat in a different way it really improves my overall game too.

 

[movdqa]

It is not the tension, rather the rackets and the full poly you have in them. I prefer my shoulder/elbow to be pain free when I am able to get some time on the courts..

Full poly at low tension, especially that low, should be okay for a sensitive elbow.

I just had four frames strung with BB ALU @51 and am looking forward to picking them up and hitting with them.

I've been using my backup racquets (also BB ALU) while waiting for them. I tried a co-poly and, yes, it was softer, but I hated hitting with it.

Full poly @ 35 probably feels like a multifilament at 58.

 

[v-verb]

Stiffness too. It did my arm in but it was a blast to play with.

Pretty stiff yes but when I hit hard had a nice subtle flex to it

 

[Papa Mango]

Full poly at low tension, especially that low, should be okay for a sensitive elbow.

I just had four frames strung with BB ALU @51 and am looking forward to picking them up and hitting with them.

I've been using my backup racquets (also BB ALU) while waiting for them. I tried a co-poly and, yes, it was softer, but I hated hitting with it.

Full poly @ 35 probably feels like a multifilament at 58.

I did experiment with the low tension poly a couple of years ago and that too on the EXO3 tour.
The shoulder somehow did not like it and it was mostly the shoulder, elbow/TE was another (added weight) issue.

Will give it a try again with the DR98 if I end up with it as the main stick.

FYI I string Gut/Poly in the low 50s(gut) and 40s(poly) currently.

 

[movdqa]

I've never had shoulder issues and can't imagine that problems would be due to strings.

I do shoulder stretches daily though and also do compound weight exercises (squats, deadlifts, military press, pushups, bench press, pullups) a few to several times a week. I probably wouldn't have had elbow issues if I did the flexbar on a regular basis (I do them now to prevent them from coming back).

 

[Papa Mango]

I've never had shoulder issues and can't imagine that problems would be due to strings.

I do shoulder stretches daily though and also do compound weight exercises (squats, deadlifts, military press, pushups, bench press, pullups) a few to several times a week. I probably wouldn't have had elbow issues if I did the flexbar on a regular basis (I do them now to prevent them from coming back).

It's non tennis related and I have had the issue since before I started playing tennis. Poly's definitely tend to aggravate it.

I do the flexbar as well since my bout with TE although not regularly enough. Got rid of the elbow brace as well a couple of months ago

 

[BounceHitBounceHit]

It may be useful for players that are really impatient - like high-school players. I was hitting two-on-one with a high-school player and the goal was 20 balls in NML and he wasn't able to do more than 3-5. We were moving him around quite a bit but he was used to first-strike tennis and went for the ball too much. If you're an older player with a lot of patience, then this drill might not do much for you but it is an interesting exercise. Geoff and BHBH play quite a bit and they look in fantastic shape, and I don't think that they'd waste their time on drills that didn't have any benefit.

Hey Movdqa! While many seem to struggle to appreciate how the 100+ ball rally challenge is relevant to actually PLAYING tennis, I can guarantee you (collectively) it is VERY relevant. I actually learned that drill from my best friend, a wildly successful DI coach. He still uses it with his team, a perennial national power. Best, BHBH

 

[Disgruntled Worker]

I learned from my private coach John McEnroe, an obscure satellite player from the 80s, that modern tennis is impossible to play without Roger Federer's Autograph racket with natural gut and Luxilon

 

[movdqa]

Hey Movdqa! While many seem to struggle to appreciate how the 100+ ball rally challenge is relevant to actually PLAYING tennis, I can guarantee you (collectively) it is VERY relevant. I actually learned that drill from my best friend, a wildly successful DI coach. He still uses it with his team, a perennial national power. Best, BHBH

I think that some don't have the stamina to maintain a rally that long.

Perhaps practicing with pushers can accomplish the same thing. I practice hitting at a decent pace with spin and sometimes the rallies go quite long because I'm not particularly interested in "winning" the point - sometimes trying to get the other person to lose the point. I can see the benefit of not worrying about the length of the point - I think that some may get more anxious as the rally goes on.

 

[BounceHitBounceHit]

I think that some don't have the stamina to maintain a rally that long.

Perhaps practicing with pushers can accomplish the same thing. I practice hitting at a decent pace with spin and sometimes the rallies go quite long because I'm not particularly interested in "winning" the point - sometimes trying to get the other person to lose the point. I can see the benefit of not worrying about the length of the point - I think that some may get more anxious as the rally goes on.

Shot tolerance.....................

 

[BounceHitBounceHit]

I think that some don't have the stamina to maintain a rally that long.

Perhaps practicing with pushers can accomplish the same thing. I practice hitting at a decent pace with spin and sometimes the rallies go quite long because I'm not particularly interested in "winning" the point - sometimes trying to get the other person to lose the point. I can see the benefit of not worrying about the length of the point - I think that some may get more anxious as the rally goes on.

I also think our videos make clear we don't 'play' that way...........BUT to play aggressively with consistency is the key. BHBH

 

[CopolyX]

Just add fresh batteries

Sent from my M9pro using Tapatalk

 

[Shroud]

Hey Movdqa! While many seem to struggle to appreciate how the 100+ ball rally challenge is relevant to actually PLAYING tennis, I can guarantee you (collectively) it is VERY relevant. I actually learned that drill from my best friend, a wildly successful DI coach. He still uses it with his team, a perennial national power. Best, BHBH

Yeah i dont see the relavance myself. Unless you are a grinder or something. How is it relevant to 1st strike tennis??

 

[Power Player]

Yeah i dont see the relavance myself. Unless you are a grinder or something. How is it relevant to 1st strike tennis??

You can't play efficient first strike tennis without first being able to control the ball.

 

[Shroud]

You can't play efficient first strike tennis without first being able to control the ball.

I suppose but that drill at least for me didnt teach me anything outside of the fact that i could do it. Rarely would i hit like that in a match or even find myself in a rally

Heck you can see in the vid i posted that i hit more normal shots on 2 occasions and almost blew the 100 ball challenge

 

[BounceHitBounceHit]

You can't play efficient first strike tennis without first being able to control the ball.

Exactly [emoji462][emoji471][emoji462]

 

[movdqa]

I suppose but that drill at least for me didnt teach me anything outside of the fact that i could do it. Rarely would i hit like that in a match or even find myself in a rally

Heck you can see in the vid i posted that i hit more normal shots on 2 occasions and almost blew the 100 ball challenge

You already have the mental and physical characteristics to do it so there may be less of a benefit for you. It may be that spending a lot of time with a ball machine develops those characteristics.

 

[v-verb]

Hey I will never win any footwork contests thats for sure but what should I be doing differently? I think I am stepping in.

I think my racket helps me with some easy depth. That is not the normal stick and is a 95" profile I just added about 10g to the hoop but never really tweaked it out to my normal speck but its still heavier and stiffer than the ones hes using.

I thought it was the Profile - that my old one? Nice hitting!

 

[Shroud]

I thought it was the Profile - that my old one? Nice hitting!

Yep!!! Put some lead at 12 pm. I like that stick!!!