Lost to a pusher.

D

DanFuller

Rookie
Lost to a pusher (never beaten this guy) again tonight.

Start to drive the ball to his backhand and then lob lob lob back. So frustrating.

Makes me not want to play competitive tennis
 
That's a good thing, because it will make you realize that there are aspects of your game that need working on. Identify what you did/didn't do well and use it as a learning opportunity. Seriously. Work on those, and you'll improve (which will give you more satisfaction in the long term).

Out of interest, what was the score?
 
A pusher only can push if you let them. Its tough to lob effectively on low, short slices.
Don't give him pace that he can just chip back up in the air. Move him around...bring him to the net
where he's probably not comfortable.

You just do have the ability yet to keep him from playing his game. Tennis is a game where you have to learn how to counter all different styles. Pushing is just one of many.
 
JackB1 said:
A pusher only can push if you let them. Its tough to lob effectively on low, short slices.
Don't give him pace that he can just chip back up in the air. Move him around...bring him to the net
where he's probably not comfortable.
Click to expand...

The pusher will just slice it back, with little pace and the ball will stay low.

What are you going to do then Sherlock?
 
Patience is key to beat a dirty pusher
They are boring and miserable to play

You have to get in that dentist mindset and attack net or bring little pusher to net
 
JackB1 said:
A pusher only can push if you let them. Its tough to lob effectively on low, short slices.
Don't give him pace that he can just chip back up in the air. Move him around...bring him to the net
where he's probably not comfortable.

You just do have the ability yet to keep him from playing his game. Tennis is a game where you have to learn how to counter all different styles. Pushing is just one of many.
Click to expand...

If he is losing to a pusher he probably doesn't have the skills to do what you're suggesting.

I always love these threads. "Pushing isn't difficult to beat you just have to be a much better tennis player than they are."

Great advice.
 
Startzel said:
If he is losing to a pusher he probably doesn't have the skills to do what you're suggesting.

I always love these threads. "Pushing isn't difficult to beat you just have to be a much better tennis player than they are."

Great advice.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. In every 'how to beat a pusher' thread, you hear such trite advice. People seem to think that all pushers are all the same and that one simple tactic (typically closing the net) will have you running out as the easy winner. You need to be able to execute a good range of shots well to beat a busher (specifically what shots depends on the particular pusher and the particular game) as well as having the right mentality.
 
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Startzel said:
If he is losing to a pusher he probably doesn't have the skills to do what you're suggesting.

I always love these threads. "Pushing isn't difficult to beat you just have to be a much better tennis player than they are."

Great advice.
Click to expand...

Non of us have any idea what skills the op has, but he is asking for advice. Some people lose to pushers because they feed into their style. It's not all about being better than you opponent. Lots of times its about how you match up against them. Better players lose to lesser players all the time. It happens on the ATP Tour and it happens at the local park.
 
There's a guy I play semi-regularly and pretty much defines "pusher" for me. We have traded off victories but to beat him is to be very patient and make sure I hit effective approach shots to set up a winner. I don't shy away from playing him but I do have to prepare myself mentally and remind myself of his game in order to succeed.
 
DanFuller said:
Lost to a pusher (never beaten this guy) again tonight.

Start to drive the ball to his backhand and then lob lob lob back. So frustrating.

Makes me not want to play competitive tennis
Click to expand...
I lose to a pusher all the time as well because he's in phenomenal shape and has a great net game. I like playing him because it forces me to be on top of my ground strokes to win. Really has helped me improve and I'll pass him this year easily
 
Startzel said:
If he is losing to a pusher he probably doesn't have the skills to do what you're suggesting.

I always love these threads. "Pushing isn't difficult to beat you just have to be a much better tennis player than they are."

Great advice.
Click to expand...
It's true tho. There's a very low ceiling for pushers. Once ur skills are developed they can't beat you
 
Booger said:
I definitely know a boring pusher when I see one.
Click to expand...

yea yea, 100 UEs that sounds like a pusher. Tell us more! You clearly know what you're talking bout lol

Just because your preferred player can't hit 8 shots in a row before shanking a souvenir into the crowd doesn't mean a more balanced aggressive/defensive player is a pusher.
 
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VexlanderPrime said:
I lose to a pusher all the time as well because he's in phenomenal shape and has a great net game. I like playing him because it forces me to be on top of my ground strokes to win. Really has helped me improve and I'll pass him this year easily
Click to expand...

I've never seen a pusher with a great net game. While there's no Webster's dictionary to act as referee, most opine [myself included] that pushers hug the baseline and only with great reluctance come to the net.
 
Booger said:
Anyone who likes Djokovic's pusher style probably has a very simple job, the kind robots will be doing soon.
Click to expand...

That really hurts man, now I'm questioning my entire career choice! I'm running back to med school as we speak!
 
DanFuller said:
Lost to a pusher (never beaten this guy) again tonight.

Start to drive the ball to his backhand and then lob lob lob back. So frustrating.

Makes me not want to play competitive tennis
Click to expand...

Do all of your matches work out essentially the same [not talking about score but the strategic battle]? If so, that makes it easier to plan a counter; it would be much more difficult if he beat you a different way every time.

So how will you alter your strategy the next time you play him?

- Hit deeper
- Move him from side to side
- S&V; C&C
- Move in on those lobs and hit OHs [not necessarily winners but ones that get him more out of position] or swinging volleys
- Drop shots
- Bigger serve

Easier typed than done, of course but maybe you haven't exhausted all options yet. Also, remember those 3 Fs [Fitness, Footwork, & Focus].
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
I've never seen a pusher with a great net game. While there's no Webster's dictionary to act as referee, most opine [myself included] that pushers hug the baseline and only with great reluctance come to the net.
Click to expand...

Yeah maybe pusher isn't the perfect word for my guy. He's 6'2 and fast. He has a good flat 1st serve but a lollipop 2nd serve. He has no groundstrokes whatsoever. He plays intense side to side D and pushes lollipops back to me. He does, however, try to get to the net and once there he can finish points if I fail to pass him. The matches are 100% decided by how well I'm hitting my groundstrokes. His ability to put a little pressure on me by coming to the net forces me to play somewhat aggressive and his epic defense forces me to go for bigger winners. In turn I (sometimes) crank out too many UEs.

So yah, if you have a better term than pusher I defer to you. Dunno what else to call his game really. Literally never seen him hit a groundstroke winner.
 
DanFuller said:
Lost to a pusher (never beaten this guy) again tonight.

Start to drive the ball to his backhand and then lob lob lob back. So frustrating.

Makes me not want to play competitive tennis
Click to expand...

A lot of the time we play into the backhand, because that's his weakness. But if he lobs it back, and it makes you uncomfortable, then you actually play into your own weakness. Play to his forehand and hope for a little more power back, which will make it easier for you to dictate.
 
tennis tom said:
No style points in tennis, all that matters is the score. It's a competition, not a performance. If your top concern is looking pretty, take up ballet.
Click to expand...

We aren't getting paid for this so winning is pretty irrelevant.

Maybe the guy just wants to go out and play tennis. It's a shame that a pusher is going to ruin that experience by pushing instead of playing tennis.
 
Get into the mindset, that playing a pusher is going to be drill practice, not unlike a coach feeding your hundreds of sitters at the baseline.
I have one friend in particular that I love drilling with... pusher/moonballer, never misses when he doesn't have to move much. When we do cross court drills (eg. fh to fh cc to 11), I almost always lose (I hit out, he lobs/moonballs it back - he literally takes a partial backswing and blocks the pace I'm giving him), because he's forcing me to hit 10+ balls per point.
Usually, when we play, and I'm able to move him around I usually win when I can string 3-4 shots in a row (fast racquet head speed topspin shots at conservative targets - into corners with 4-5ft margin)... usually by the 3rd shot I have him running enough to illicit a short ball (leading to a midcourt winner, or volley/overhead winner). Definitely can't just keep hitting to his backhand, need to move him back and forth
But, occasionally I'm slightly off (usually footwork related - ie. not fighting for optimal contact), and I can't make 3 balls in a row, and I lose.

The guy you lost to should definitely be the main practice buddy,... when you overcome him (by hitting out - fast racquet head speed + topspin... just don't become a pusher/moonballer in the process!!!), you'll have the tools to be able to beat alot of other players you previously couldn't,... and you'll find a higher level of enjoyment in playing tennis.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
I've never seen a pusher with a great net game. While there's no Webster's dictionary to act as referee, most opine [myself included] that pushers hug the baseline and only with great reluctance come to the net.
Click to expand...
I think the best definition of pusher is a player who waits for opponents errors as opposed to trying to end points themselves as a primary strategy. Since it's rare to impossible to play a net game and try to wait for errors instead of putting balls away at the net, it's not likely that you'll ever see a pusher by that definition who comes to the net a lot, but it doesn't exclude a "pusher" having an effective net game that they only use when they are forced in to the net.

This definition also allows for pushers at every level of tennis, but they look different at higher levels than lower levels (just like every other style of player...). At lower levels (up to 4.0 or so), pushers will look like what people describe when they are trying to use "pusher" as a derogatory term - a player who just hits no pace balls back to the center of the court until you overhit and lose the point. At 4.5 and higher, offensive players' weapons are too highly developed and can punish the pure slow ball retrievers, so "pushers" at the higher levels will be players who can hit with more spin and depth and pace so that their shots can't be attacked, but if they're still just trying to retrieve and hit 50 shots until you miss, I'd say they're still a pusher.

By the time you get to the pros, every player has developed a complete game, so there are no "pure" pushers, but a key at the pro level is identifying relative strengths in any particular match and exploiting them, so you will see players "push" in terms of rallying until the opponent makes an error if they perceive that it can be a winning strategy for that match. Andy Murray uses it more than other players because, well, he's good at it, but Murray also obviously has the ability to end points, too, if that's the optimal strategy for him in that particular match.
 
J_R_B said:
I think the best definition of pusher is a player who waits for opponents errors as opposed to trying to end points themselves as a primary strategy. Since it's rare to impossible to play a net game and try to wait for errors instead of putting balls away at the net, it's not likely that you'll ever see a pusher by that definition who comes to the net a lot, but it doesn't exclude a "pusher" having an effective net game that they only use when they are forced in to the net.

This definition also allows for pushers at every level of tennis, but they look different at higher levels than lower levels (just like every other style of player...). At lower levels (up to 4.0 or so), pushers will look like what people describe when they are trying to use "pusher" as a derogatory term - a player who just hits no pace balls back to the center of the court until you overhit and lose the point. At 4.5 and higher, offensive players' weapons are too highly developed and can punish the pure slow ball retrievers, so "pushers" at the higher levels will be players who can hit with more spin and depth and pace so that their shots can't be attacked, but if they're still just trying to retrieve and hit 50 shots until you miss, I'd say they're still a pusher.

By the time you get to the pros, every player has developed a complete game, so there are no "pure" pushers, but a key at the pro level is identifying relative strengths in any particular match and exploiting them, so you will see players "push" in terms of rallying until the opponent makes an error if they perceive that it can be a winning strategy for that match. Andy Murray uses it more than other players because, well, he's good at it, but Murray also obviously has the ability to end points, too, if that's the optimal strategy for him in that particular match.
Click to expand...
Gilles Simon - imo, best "pusher" on the tour, perhaps GOAT. :)
 
DanFuller said:
Lost to a pusher (never beaten this guy) again tonight.

Start to drive the ball to his backhand and then lob lob lob back. So frustrating.

Makes me not want to play competitive tennis
Click to expand...

We have two players who are very difficult to beat, which one player is like Muster who has great court coverage and rarely over hits the balls. Another player has even faster feet, and his entire game plan is to keep the ball in play.

The trick to beating those guys were that instead of attacking their weaker side, which resulted in many bunts, dinks and lobs, hitting straight at them to stop their movements. Once I got the short balls, no matter how fast they were, it was easy to put those balls away. One of the ways I got the short balls were after hitting as hard as I could straight at those players, I varied the sides and often added drop shots in the mix.

I think one of the ways to beat the pushers is to stop their movements. Once that's established, you can open up the court for easier put aways.
 
Someone who's losing to a pusher is probably a pusher himself, just worse.

How are your forehand screamers? Your overheads? Your volleys?

BAD, right???

There you got it, PUSHER.
 
How does one type of player frustrate and make people want to quit the game? It is funny how people consider pushers (can't say I have played one) the pariahs of low rec tennis and claim they aren't real players. If they beat you, doesn't that make them in essence better than you? They may not have the pretty strokes but the goal is to win. Not directing this at the OP ... just inquisitive rambling.
 
IA-SteveB said:
How does one type of player frustrate and make people want to quit the game? It is funny how people consider pushers (can't say I have played one) the pariahs of low rec tennis and claim they aren't real players. If they beat you, doesn't that make them in essence better than you? They may not have the pretty strokes but the goal is to win. Not directing this at the OP ... just inquisitive rambling.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't make them better 'tennis' players. It just makes them better at a gimmick.
 
Practice your serve and overheads,also the first shot after your serve is very important.Call him to the net ,I have never seen a pusher that feels comfortable at the net,although some say that pushers like that exist.
 
IA-SteveB said:
How does one type of player frustrate and make people want to quit the game? It is funny how people consider pushers (can't say I have played one) the pariahs of low rec tennis and claim they aren't real players. If they beat you, doesn't that make them in essence better than you? They may not have the pretty strokes but the goal is to win. Not directing this at the OP ... just inquisitive rambling.
Click to expand...
Pushers are guardians of tennis!
He who can only hit pretty groundstrokes from the center hashmark does not a tennis player make :P
 
Startzel said:
No it doesn't make them better 'tennis' players. It just makes them better at a gimmick.
Click to expand...
If the gimmick yields a win, more power to them. :) 'Tennis' is a game where the ultimate goal is to win. I don't think it matters much who is the better 'tennis' player per se. If you are playing within the rules and your style of play gets you a win, that's what counts.
 
IA-SteveB said:
If the gimmick yields a win, more power to them. :) 'Tennis' is a game where the ultimate goal is to win. I don't think it matters much who is the better 'tennis' player per se. If you are playing within the rules and your style of play gets you a win, that's what counts.
Click to expand...

Well maybe not everyone is playing to win. Maybe some people want to actually play tennis?
 
J_R_B said:
I think the best definition of pusher is a player who waits for opponents errors as opposed to trying to end points themselves as a primary strategy. Since it's rare to impossible to play a net game and try to wait for errors instead of putting balls away at the net, it's not likely that you'll ever see a pusher by that definition who comes to the net a lot, but it doesn't exclude a "pusher" having an effective net game that they only use when they are forced in to the net.

This definition also allows for pushers at every level of tennis, but they look different at higher levels than lower levels (just like every other style of player...). At lower levels (up to 4.0 or so), pushers will look like what people describe when they are trying to use "pusher" as a derogatory term - a player who just hits no pace balls back to the center of the court until you overhit and lose the point. At 4.5 and higher, offensive players' weapons are too highly developed and can punish the pure slow ball retrievers, so "pushers" at the higher levels will be players who can hit with more spin and depth and pace so that their shots can't be attacked, but if they're still just trying to retrieve and hit 50 shots until you miss, I'd say they're still a pusher.

By the time you get to the pros, every player has developed a complete game, so there are no "pure" pushers, but a key at the pro level is identifying relative strengths in any particular match and exploiting them, so you will see players "push" in terms of rallying until the opponent makes an error if they perceive that it can be a winning strategy for that match. Andy Murray uses it more than other players because, well, he's good at it, but Murray also obviously has the ability to end points, too, if that's the optimal strategy for him in that particular match.
Click to expand...

Great post. I'm sure a lot of top pros look down on Simon (pusher) and Santoro (junk baller) the same way people on this mb look down on their pushing opponents. It's not 'real' tennis lol.
 
JackB1 said:
If they beat you over and over, they are better than you at tennis...period. It's just a "gimmick" because you don't know how to deal with it. You can't tell your opponent how to play the game.
Click to expand...

So the fact I can beat pusher means I can call it a gimmick?

That's silly logic. It's a gimmick either way.
 
Startzel said:
So the fact I can beat pusher means I can call it a gimmick?

That's silly logic. It's a gimmick either way.
Click to expand...

What's "silly" is using a word without knowing the correct meaning, so here it is for you:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gimmick
a. A device employed to cheat, deceive, or trick, especially a mechanism for the secret and dishonest control of gambling apparatus. b. An innovative or unusual mechanical contrivance;a gadget.

A pusher is not "cheating, tricking or deceiving" you. They just aren't playing the game they way you want them to. There's a difference.
 
Win or lose... I like playing against "pushers" and "grinders"... Teaches me consistency, patience, point construction...

The worst is playing against a ball basher having an off day when they're hitting every shot out. Ugh!! what fun is that?
 
JackB1 said:
What's "silly" is using a word without knowing the correct meaning, so here it is for you:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gimmick
a. A device employed to cheat, deceive, or trick, especially a mechanism for the secret and dishonest control of gambling apparatus. b. An innovative or unusual mechanical contrivance;a gadget.

A pusher is not "cheating, tricking or deceiving" you. They just aren't playing the game they way you want them to. There's a difference.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry you don't understand why pushing is a gimmick.
 
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