Lost to a pusher.

392Hemi said:
Food for thought..

Do pushers like playing other pushers?
Click to expand...

I do usually as long as there is a reasonably even matching and the opponent is making a good effort, which is usually my criteria for liking games with non-pushers also. I don't like getting beaten 6-0, 6-0 and I usually don't like winning by the same score either. But a particularly witty opponent can take the edge of of those situations also.
 
There was a time when "pushers" gave me so much trouble because I wasn't consistent, fit, and long rally tolerant enough. It's been years now that I can finally say I love to play with them. Instead of trying to blast them off the court with a bunch of UEs, I've learned to see them as very expensive high tech ball machines. So even in matches, I literally am just practicing my strokes just like hitting a practice wall. If you are fit and can endure 30+ shot rallies, it is heaven.
 
wsk429 said:
There was a time when "pushers" gave me so much trouble because I wasn't consistent, fit, and long rally tolerant enough. It's been years now that I can finally say I love to play with them. Instead of trying to blast them off the court with a bunch of UEs, I've learned to see them as very expensive high tech ball machines. So even in matches, I literally am just practicing my strokes just like hitting a practice wall. If you are fit and can endure 30+ shot rallies, it is heaven.
Click to expand...

Well this raises an interesting question, how do you decide who wins when you hit with a ball machine ?
 
Startzel said:
Well this raises an interesting question, how do you decide who wins when you hit with a ball machine ?
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For me, I consider winning the point if I can execute my shots contiguously as intended and the empty hopper has no reply. This style of play aims to achieve a win indirectly with high degree of probability. What the strategy really strives to achieve is making rock solid players through confidence building and repetition of good stroke mechanics. I see that combination a lot in pros and rec players alike when they are "in the zone" for parts of their matches as their performances go up and down. This technique in a nutshell is about extending that zone for a longer duration.
 
Well I lost to a pusher yesterday. It was really frustrating. I'm a pretty aggressive player and I was happy to see a fit guy with pretty nice strokes across the net during warm up. He looked really well rested. I would say he was a upper 4.0 and would probably beat some low 4.5's but would probably lose to most solid 4.5's and would probably wet himself if he got on court with a 5.0. You know the type, average athlete but tough competitor, always tinkering with his serve, etc.

Anyway, despite his solid strokes and 'tennis' physique he was just another run of the mill pusher. I was punishing his second serve so he just started spinning his first serve and then gave me junk: slice, topspin, run everything down, etc. There was so much pushing going on I thought I was stuck in a lamaze class on groundhog day. Anyway, to prove I play 'real' tennis and am the superior player, I proceeded to spray shots all over the place and lose to the pusher. I sprayed the balls HARD and with pretty technique though, so I'm pretty sure I was the real winner. I would probably beat him 4-5 times out of 6 anyways so who cares.

My opponent was a nice guy although a bit quirky. When I would miss a close shot he would yell, "Not this time Hillary!" whatever the hell that means. btw my name's not Hillary.
 
norcal said:
Well I lost to a pusher yesterday. It was really frustrating. I'm a pretty aggressive player and I was happy to see a fit guy with pretty nice strokes across the net during warm up. He looked really well rested. I would say he was a upper 4.0 and would probably beat some low 4.5's but would probably lose to most solid 4.5's and would probably wet himself if he got on court with a 5.0. You know the type, average athlete but tough competitor, always tinkering with his serve, etc.

Anyway, despite his solid strokes and 'tennis' physique he was just another run of the mill pusher. I was punishing his second serve so he just started spinning his first serve and then gave me junk: slice, topspin, run everything down, etc. There was so much pushing going on I thought I was stuck in a lamaze class on groundhog day. Anyway, to prove I play 'real' tennis and am the superior player, I proceeded to spray shots all over the place and lose to the pusher. I sprayed the balls HARD and with pretty technique though, so I'm pretty sure I was the real winner. I would probably beat him 4-5 times out of 6 anyways so who cares.

My opponent was a nice guy although a bit quirky. When I would miss a close shot he would yell, "Not this time Hillary!" whatever the hell that means. btw my name's not Hillary.
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lol, nice one, Hillary.
 
norcal said:
I sprayed the balls HARD and with pretty technique though, so I'm pretty sure I was the real winner. I would probably beat him 4-5 times out of 6 anyways so who cares.
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That's OK: according to some, your opponent wasn't playing real tennis anyway.

My opponent was a nice guy although a bit quirky. When I would miss a close shot he would yell, "Not this time Hillary!" whatever the hell that means. btw my name's not Hillary.
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Maybe he was following dgold's strategy of thinking about people who annoy him [Clinton] or he's a mountain climber [Sir Edmund].
 
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norcal said:
Well I lost to a pusher yesterday. It was really frustrating. I'm a pretty aggressive player and I was happy to see a fit guy with pretty nice strokes across the net during warm up. He looked really well rested. I would say he was a upper 4.0 and would probably beat some low 4.5's but would probably lose to most solid 4.5's and would probably wet himself if he got on court with a 5.0. You know the type, average athlete but tough competitor, always tinkering with his serve, etc.

Anyway, despite his solid strokes and 'tennis' physique he was just another run of the mill pusher. I was punishing his second serve so he just started spinning his first serve and then gave me junk: slice, topspin, run everything down, etc. There was so much pushing going on I thought I was stuck in a lamaze class on groundhog day. Anyway, to prove I play 'real' tennis and am the superior player, I proceeded to spray shots all over the place and lose to the pusher. I sprayed the balls HARD and with pretty technique though, so I'm pretty sure I was the real winner. I would probably beat him 4-5 times out of 6 anyways so who cares.

My opponent was a nice guy although a bit quirky. When I would miss a close shot he would yell, "Not this time Hillary!" whatever the hell that means. btw my name's not Hillary.
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Very very hilarious !!!
We should meet at Indian wells and u can tell people I am semi normal lol
 
Rino said:
You dont seem to understand that the point of playing competitive tennis is to beat your opponent on the scoreboard - not 'look good'.

If you think otherwise - good luck with that
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I understand that if a player develops proper strokes the scoreboard will show he will beat the pusher more often than he will lose.
 
g4driver said:
Watched a 4.0 guy tank a match to a 4.0 pusher in singles.

Talk about ugly tennis. :(
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Lol, when I see that happen, to me or someone else...
I picture this is how the fight went:
A non pusher, looks sharp and clean (eg. Kimbo to me is the better/sharper striker,... the cop kinda just throws haymakers)
But the pusher" (the cop) kept blocking punches (with his face in the vid example)... until the other guy gasses out (kimbo)
It's not pretty (as the cop's face can attest to), but gets the job done (cop stands victorious over a kimbo that is exhausted from punching the cop in the face).
:P
 
Rino said:
You dont seem to understand that the point of playing competitive tennis is to beat your opponent on the scoreboard - not 'look good'.
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Is that why you play pusher, moonball, and junkball tennis?

You're clearly a beginning tennis player as you don't understand that a high level of play and strokes that 'look good' aren't mutually exclusive.
 
Startzel said:
I understand that if a player develops proper strokes the scoreboard will show he will beat the pusher more often than he will lose.
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Not necessarily, you can have the best strokes in the world, but with no tactical awareness, limited fitness, and a 'go for glory' mentality then you'll be in trouble against a player who is consistent with a brain.
 
PDJ said:
Not necessarily, you can have the best strokes in the world, but with no tactical awareness, limited fitness, and a 'go for glory' mentality then you'll be in trouble against a player who is consistent with a brain.
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Not a good look for pushing when you need an opponent with limited fitness and no tactical awareness to win.
 
I pushed some pushers today, and it was a moderate success... both playing back I was hitting heavy deep top but only getting deep or low slice back leaving goofy angle and speed so I started slicing my first ball and it in turn made them adjust their shot instead of mine every time. I still went dtl top aggressive and dtm 1hbh top spin but a lot of cross court slice and fh slice it was pretty fun I don't know if I will do it this weekend in our match but I might have to at least turn it on for a game or two to switch it up.
 
nytennisaddict said:
Lol, when I see that happen, to me or someone else...
I picture this is how the fight went:
A non pusher, looks sharp and clean (eg. Kimbo to me is the better/sharper striker,... the cop kinda just throws haymakers)
But the pusher" (the cop) kept blocking punches (with his face in the vid example)... until the other guy gasses out (kimbo)
It's not pretty (as the cop's face can attest to), but gets the job done (cop stands victorious over a kimbo that is exhausted from punching the cop in the face).
:p
Click to expand...
Good ol' Kevin Ferguson.. loved Kimbo but it didn't really translate well in the octagon.
 
Old buddy of mine was a Pusher.
He used to beat me in my younger days.
As I got better & stronger, he stayed the same, eventually I beat him constantly & never looked back.
Patience is the key, need to be consistent up to a point, not to outgrind them,
but improve your shot quality where you can hit thru them or around them.
Big solid serve, flat groundies, crisp volleying & smashes also help.
The tendency is to hit the ball harder, but that not the secret.
Placement & getting more shots in a favoured position is.
Its a great learning experience.
Might be playing a Pusher tomorrow, can't wait...
 
As long as we're revisiting this endless topic...

Pushing is a style of play.
A Pusher is a player who almost exclusively employs this style of play.

Many folks including myself employ the technique and push on matches where it's the style of play most likely to win.

I try to determine in warmups and early in the match whether I can just keep the ball deep (with underspin mostly) and force an error. If it works, I'm pushing all the way. Proud to do it too...
 
eelhc said:
As long as we're revisiting this endless topic...

Pushing is a style of play.
A Pusher is a player who almost exclusively employs this style of play.

Many folks including myself employ the technique and push on matches where it's the style of play most likely to win.

I try to determine in warmups and early in the match whether I can just keep the ball deep (with underspin mostly) and force an error. If it works, I'm pushing all the way. Proud to do it too...
Click to expand...

This is probably why I lose too many matches. I look at each shot as an opportunity to make the best shot possible from a technique standpoint. I would never float back a ball I could easily hit with pace and spin even if it afforded the opponent another chance to make an error. I want the win/loss column to reflect what i did with my racket.

If I'm out of position, sure I'll push a ball back deep just to reset the point and get into a better position. But I look at that as the best shot I can make in that situation. If I have a waist high sitter one step into the baseline, I'm sure as hell going to drive it to a corner with as much pace as I can muster safely. I'm more interested with making good shots, not just safe shots. Wins are a secondary concern as I get no satisfaction from winning by taking advantage of another players unforced errors. My tennis goals are to improve by decreasing my unforced errors, and being able to hit shots that are either outright winners or force errors. My goals are never to "win at any cost". There is no money for me in tennis, there is only self satisfaction and I can only be satisfied by improving and winning points on my developing skills.
 
Dartagnan64 said:
This is probably why I lose too many matches. I look at each shot as an opportunity to make the best shot possible from a technique standpoint. I would never float back a ball I could easily hit with pace and spin even if it afforded the opponent another chance to make an error. I want the win/loss column to reflect what i did with my racket.

If I'm out of position, sure I'll push a ball back deep just to reset the point and get into a better position. But I look at that as the best shot I can make in that situation. If I have a waist high sitter one step into the baseline, I'm sure as hell going to drive it to a corner with as much pace as I can muster safely. I'm more interested with making good shots, not just safe shots. Wins are a secondary concern as I get no satisfaction from winning by taking advantage of another players unforced errors. My tennis goals are to improve by decreasing my unforced errors, and being able to hit shots that are either outright winners or force errors. My goals are never to "win at any cost". There is no money for me in tennis, there is only self satisfaction and I can only be satisfied by improving and winning points on my developing skills.
Click to expand...

Depends... If I am playing on a USTA team, go for the tactic that will most likely win the match every time since I am playing for the team rather than just myself. If I am playing in a tournament as an individual or recreationally or in a club league... I play for "self satisfaction".

BTW... one can push and attack... they are not mutually exclusive...
 
eelhc said:
Depends... If I am playing on a USTA team, go for the tactic that will most likely win the match every time since I am playing for the team rather than just myself. If I am playing in a tournament as an individual or recreationally or in a club league... I play for "self satisfaction".

BTW... one can push and attack... they are not mutually exclusive...
Click to expand...

I disagree. You can play defensively and attack, but that is not the same as pushing in my book. Pushers are a breed of player that take pace off balls and return with lobs, paceless slices and bunts. They don't go for passing shots. They don't hit topspin drives and they don't serve hard. If they play defensively then go for it when the opportunity prevails itself, they are a defensive counter-puncher and not a pusher.

But i agree that if you are on a team, then win at all costs is a reasonable mentality. I'm not in that situation so I refuse to push, even if it would serve me well sometimes.
 
Played my third singles match for the summer, it was 40C / 104F
I'm a 44yo big guy, 190cm, 96kgs, not super fit, but fast for my size.
Played an 18yo lad on synthetic grass, he won toss & served out his service game to 15.
My service game seemed ok, but went on & had 10 deuces, I eventually won that game.
Think he won his second service game, that was about it.
I've got a big solid reliable serve, great reliable slice backhand, but not confident on forehand & blocked a lot of shots.
It was really hot so I conserved my energy for certain worthwhile points.
Keep plenty of balls in, reduced unforced errors, moved the ball all around court, often keeping it deep 1metre from baseline & if he hangs too far back in the court I use deft slice inside service line & make him produce weak shot, then put away.
Didn't venture to the net often, when I did I often got passed by his reasonable forehand, his backhand was weak, though.
He made too many errors at crucial times & got broken open. Served out match at 40-0 with ace down the T.
Score 6-2, 6-0
 
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Dartagnan64 said:
I disagree. You can play defensively and attack, but that is not the same as pushing in my book. Pushers are a breed of player that take pace off balls and return with lobs, paceless slices and bunts. They don't go for passing shots. They don't hit topspin drives and they don't serve hard. If they play defensively then go for it when the opportunity prevails itself, they are a defensive counter-puncher and not a pusher.

But i agree that if you are on a team, then win at all costs is a reasonable mentality. I'm not in that situation so I refuse to push, even if it would serve me well sometimes.
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Suppose you are in a match and you are playing aggressive and going for your shots but having an off day and you quickly fall behind 2 breaks (3-0 or 4-0)... What do you do at that point? Make adjustments or continue to play "satisfying" tennis?
 
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eelhc said:
Suppose you are in a match and you are playing aggressive and going for your shots but having an off day and you quickly fall behind 2 breaks (3-0 or 4-0)... What do you do at that point? Make adjustments or continue to play "satisfying" tennis?
Click to expand...

Good question. Generally I'll try to analyze why I'm playing poorly. My problem is usually the opposite. In an important match I'll tend tighten up and play less aggressively. So i have to remind my self to stay loose, swing out and trust my swing. But its certainly not unreasonable to play defensively in that setting especially if you can do it well. I tend to suck if I just go defensive as my lobs and slices are inferior strokes to my 2HBH and topspin forehand.
But in social matches where I'm just missing everything that day, what i do is go back to fundamentals. Footwork, shoulder turn, watch contact point, stay loose, bend legs. I try to fix the problem rather than go into a defensive shell.
 
Dartagnan64 said:
Good question. Generally I'll try to analyze why I'm playing poorly. My problem is usually the opposite. In an important match I'll tend tighten up and play less aggressively. So i have to remind my self to stay loose, swing out and trust my swing. But its certainly not unreasonable to play defensively in that setting especially if you can do it well. I tend to suck if I just go defensive as my lobs and slices are inferior strokes to my 2HBH and topspin forehand.
But in social matches where I'm just missing everything that day, what i do is go back to fundamentals. Footwork, shoulder turn, watch contact point, stay loose, bend legs. I try to fix the problem rather than go into a defensive shell.
Click to expand...
Lobbing and slicing is not the same as pushing.... To me... Pushing requires enough pace and depth to prevent your opponent from hitting or setting up a winner.

Next time you play.... Try to hit every ball at least 2 feet past the service line with decent pace and see if it's easy to do so.
 
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