So the lower the tension, the more power, up to a certain point. For instance, poly at 45 will be more powerful than poly at 55. But, if I am understanding correctly, if one keeps going lower in tension, you hit a certain point where lowering the tension even further diminishes power rather than adds power. Is that correct? And if so, at what tension would that take place? In other words, at approximately what tension does poly hit its highest power? Does this peak-power tension differ depending on if it's a stiff poly vs a softer co-poly?
Low, low tensions. 30lbs feels great. 20lbs pretty good, too
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Deleted member 775108
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Yes. I did an ultra soft racquet (prince Graphite Pro 14x16 93sq 48 ra) with mid-soft string (big hitter blue 16 @ 37 crossed with prince tour xr 17 @ 35). When ball left the racquet it felt like to had a massive amount of power but it just seemed to fizzle out after passing the net. I just felt like the round string just moved around the ball and the racquet and string combo just absorbed the energy instead of snapping back energetically. Same racquet at 45 lbs felt great.
A bit of made up speculation below
A stiff racquet with stiff shaped string with a semi open but not too open pattern will probably be able to go the lowest string tension wise... List the successful racket/string/tension recipes on tour.
On the other end of things I not heard from anyone who played a soft racquet with a soft string and really low tension and be happy.
More open (eg 14x16) patterns can't go too low from my minimal experience because maybe snapback power is reduced?
More closed patterns at ultra low tension might just become a fishing net style event during hitting is my best guess?
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Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Well I hear Mannarino plays with a 2013 aeropro drive apparently at 24lbs of alu power. So just how open is that string pattern? Any Aero should probably be pretty open right? He has great results with it as a top 50 player
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
It's not a tight pattern, but it's not super open. Pretty standard for a 16x19. The later Aeros retain the 16x19 but are more spaced in the center for additional spin, but the 2013 predates this.
Also, he's probably using Pro Stock, so there's a lot more customization available. But, that's how the retail version was.
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Deleted member 775108
Guest
Double Post
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Deleted member 775108
Guest
Basically all 14x16, 16x15, 16x16 are all much more open than then Aero
Pure Aero + Stiff String + Low Tension = Perfect setup
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
I know thats true because trying RPM Blast down at 35lbs in 2019 Pure Aero was the best hitting experience of my life. Problem is it also destroyed my arm in the very first hitting session, lol.
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
What gauge did you use?
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
16, I agree with the person on the reviews who said RPM 16 is the best string ever to play with but the worst for the arm.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Tour M8 at 30 lbs is extremely good awesome heavy balls and bounce effect lots of control, power, spin, comfort. It has everything. Going even lower next time down to 24 lb Mannarino style, 30 still does not feel super low still plenty of tightness.
Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
I’m back in this thread after many years, recently I’ve not been competing but coaching, however I have a weighted ezone 108 strung at 21 and it feels like I can hang with the best of them with this set up.
My utr is about a 9, used to be higher, but with this set up I can hang in points with 12+ utr players. My level drop off has really come from fitness so being able to use a racket with this much spin and power feels awesome.
My utr is about a 9, used to be higher, but with this set up I can hang in points with 12+ utr players. My level drop off has really come from fitness so being able to use a racket with this much spin and power feels awesome.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Lol yea my 30 lbs is already cheat codes so much spin effect and power potential with control. Down to 20 lbs next time! I'm not surprised by your experience at all
Does it produce even more vibrations down at 21 though? Or is it more arm friendly than 30?
Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
More vibration but I can’t tell you about the arm friendliness. It doesn’t feel jarring it just shakes the strings longer
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Correct it doesn't feel jarring but nevertheless those vibrations gradually damage my arm. I notice it depends on weather conditions, sometimes its not very vibrational and feels perfect other times its way too vibrational
Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
Use the wormy shock absorbers
gamma ones that are gel filled
definitely depends on string as well
Icsa
Professional
I've done a few experiments using a 6.1 95 16x18 with a SW of 345.
Based on this thread, I strung a few sets of Gamma Zo Power 16L at 38 pounds on a drop-weight stringer with a double pull before clamping.
The string felt amazing with easy access to spin and power. The adjustment that was necessary was to hit hard with top-spin or slice every time since a flat and relaxed hit would usually catapult the ball out-of-bounds. It almost felt like the ball would go longer in an inverse relationship to the power/speed of my hit - but this could only be a perception due to the increased spin generated by the harder hits. I was able to win multiple official matches with relative ease, this is how much confidence and control I was getting from the string. However, after 4-6 hours, the elbow would start to complain. A careful analysis of the string showed that the crosses were dented and clicking when mains were moved. A fresh string and back in business, with no issues to the elbow until around the 4h time.
Since the crosses were denting, I proceeded with the next experiment, this time using string savers to prevent the denting. I used lots of Babolat Elastocross. I passed the 4-6 hours mark with no issues to the elbow. In fact, the string continued to feel great until around 10 hours. The spin was less with string savers since the mains required increased force to move, but the spin was adequate and still easily accessible. Passed the 10 hours I noticed that the first serves were not as explosive and fast as before and required considerable more effort. Generating spin/kick for second serves was still possible and the plushness of the string bed felt similar during groundstrokes, but maybe the change was not as obvious as with the first serves. I continued past the 10 hours and soon after the shoulder started to complain while the elbow was just fine. Likely related to the lack of power from the string during first serves. It became clear that the string was now "dead" and its elasticity (energy return) was gone. Cutting the string was overdue.
Now I'm back to playing with 16g syn-gut at 58 pounds and the shoulder is recovering very fast. I miss the spin, and the pocketing. Lesson learned: always play with fresh poly.
I (re)discovered on my own what was already been said:
1. Poly at low tension feels great and continues to play with control.
2. Poly will die fast, regardless of the initial tension
3. First degradation of the string will be by denting the crosses - which affects spin and more importantly your elbow
4. Followed by a sudden death where the string loses all its elasticity, which brings a higher possibility of serious injury
When stringing poly at a higher tension, there is another phase when the poly is losing tension, and the player needs to adjust to different strokes to keep the ball in - stopping here and cutting the string is the best way to prevent injury.
Conclusion: low tension gives you plushness and easy access to spin, but the poly will still die, likely faster than at high tension.
Based on this thread, I strung a few sets of Gamma Zo Power 16L at 38 pounds on a drop-weight stringer with a double pull before clamping.
The string felt amazing with easy access to spin and power. The adjustment that was necessary was to hit hard with top-spin or slice every time since a flat and relaxed hit would usually catapult the ball out-of-bounds. It almost felt like the ball would go longer in an inverse relationship to the power/speed of my hit - but this could only be a perception due to the increased spin generated by the harder hits. I was able to win multiple official matches with relative ease, this is how much confidence and control I was getting from the string. However, after 4-6 hours, the elbow would start to complain. A careful analysis of the string showed that the crosses were dented and clicking when mains were moved. A fresh string and back in business, with no issues to the elbow until around the 4h time.
Since the crosses were denting, I proceeded with the next experiment, this time using string savers to prevent the denting. I used lots of Babolat Elastocross. I passed the 4-6 hours mark with no issues to the elbow. In fact, the string continued to feel great until around 10 hours. The spin was less with string savers since the mains required increased force to move, but the spin was adequate and still easily accessible. Passed the 10 hours I noticed that the first serves were not as explosive and fast as before and required considerable more effort. Generating spin/kick for second serves was still possible and the plushness of the string bed felt similar during groundstrokes, but maybe the change was not as obvious as with the first serves. I continued past the 10 hours and soon after the shoulder started to complain while the elbow was just fine. Likely related to the lack of power from the string during first serves. It became clear that the string was now "dead" and its elasticity (energy return) was gone. Cutting the string was overdue.
Now I'm back to playing with 16g syn-gut at 58 pounds and the shoulder is recovering very fast. I miss the spin, and the pocketing. Lesson learned: always play with fresh poly.
I (re)discovered on my own what was already been said:
1. Poly at low tension feels great and continues to play with control.
2. Poly will die fast, regardless of the initial tension
3. First degradation of the string will be by denting the crosses - which affects spin and more importantly your elbow
4. Followed by a sudden death where the string loses all its elasticity, which brings a higher possibility of serious injury
When stringing poly at a higher tension, there is another phase when the poly is losing tension, and the player needs to adjust to different strokes to keep the ball in - stopping here and cutting the string is the best way to prevent injury.
Conclusion: low tension gives you plushness and easy access to spin, but the poly will still die, likely faster than at high tension.
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Deleted member 775108
Guest
Here are the original blog posts. I always wanted those links but figured out how to do it.
Hopefully will be useful to someone.
1) How low can you go?
http://web.archive.org/web/20100428234815/http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1154
2) How low can I really go? Try 10lbs
http://web.archive.org/web/20100428234815/http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1160
3) The insanity is spreading
http://web.archive.org/web/20100428234815/http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1167
4) Never Again
http://web.archive.org/web/20100428234815/http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1172
@TW Staff - might find this interesting as well.
Hopefully will be useful to someone.
1) How low can you go?
http://web.archive.org/web/20100428234815/http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1154
2) How low can I really go? Try 10lbs
http://web.archive.org/web/20100428234815/http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1160
3) The insanity is spreading
http://web.archive.org/web/20100428234815/http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1167
4) Never Again
http://web.archive.org/web/20100428234815/http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1172
@TW Staff - might find this interesting as well.
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Happi
Hall of Fame
I think there also was a blog or thread with multi or gut at low tension.
shamaho
Professional
This results from personal experience, mine is very similar and so, some thoughts:
For item 1. You are playing with a high SW racket (like me) that may alter results/feelings/stages for those playing with lighter rackets.
I would replace 2 (which I read as a fact not a stage in the progression) with:
2. Poly looses tension but is now in a very good sweet-spot of playability
as for 3. in my case even some denting does not affect elbow in any way (I'd put this in stage 2). it's stage 4 that affects me most, I do feel that string has gone dead, when after a hard 2 hr practice, I get sore wrists and tension in the forearm - that's my queue to replace string...
Happi
Hall of Fame
I tried that and got some wierd vibrations, not so at 17kg, so looking forward to your findings. Mine was the +38 version, so not exactly the same string.Tomorrow I will string my PA23 with Focus Hex 1.27 at 15kg.
liftordie
Hall of Fame
How was the control with the +38 at 17kg? Not a rocket launcher??
Happi
Hall of Fame
It was ok, but I cut it out due to vibrations. Could have been a bad stringjob from my side, as I generally dont experience that kind of vibrations with poly at low tension. Right now I am playing Cyber Blue Mains at 16 kg and Multifeel Black as cross at 17 kg, really soft and good setup. Think I will go even lower next time.
KungfuTennis
Semi-Pro
I get that vibration sometimes when I'm stringing under 25lbs, I use a thin rubber band (not the Agassi kind, like the grocery store kind) as a dampener and it cuts out the vibrations beautifully without actually muting the strings
WYK
Legend
It's all about the elasticity in the string. Some start with more than others. So they will all vary, especially considering the wide array of gauges and string patterns and sizes of racquets as well.
However, eventually you are going to find a tension where the string is more noodle than elastic in every string.
I put a #65 rubber band in the bottom row of my stringbed. It works fairly well. I am using MSV focus Hex 127 and GoMax in my Gravity MP at 44X33.
Kinda like this:
WYK
Legend
The 2013 APD string pattern is similar to the current 2023 PA. In other words, much tighter than in previous PA's, and about like it is in many even non spinny16X19's you see on offer nowadays.
I liked how much control the 2013 APD had. My arm was just not up to the task. But I do like my chances with the new 65RA 2023 version.
NewFoolsPlease
New User
Digging up an old thread that has been a bit of a goldmine for me.
I'm elbow sensitive and play a very topspin heavy game. Forehand described by others as whippy (probably explains the elbow).
MSV focus hex 17g at 33lbs was insane, but hurt my elbow. Its like the ball was being remote controlled to the baseline on groundstrokes. Tested for a 1 hr hit. Dunlop sx300 100 inch 16/19 frame
Cut the crosses and replaced with volkl syn gut so a hybrid with the msv hex. At 34lbs then played a couple of hours today. Elbow fine is the good news. People I haven't played with before still complemented my topspin but I didn't see much more than my old 18/20 head liquid metal setup, definitely much less than the full poly setup. It's also the most powerful frame / setup I have ever used so I was struggling with hitting long, adjusting then netting a few. Blocking the ball back wasn't great either.
I could live with the poly/syn hybrid but keen to experiment with some soft polys.... Or some posts here even suggest more spin from syn/syn??! Elbow health comes first but it's hard having tasted the cheat code of ELT poly/poly!
I'm elbow sensitive and play a very topspin heavy game. Forehand described by others as whippy (probably explains the elbow).
MSV focus hex 17g at 33lbs was insane, but hurt my elbow. Its like the ball was being remote controlled to the baseline on groundstrokes. Tested for a 1 hr hit. Dunlop sx300 100 inch 16/19 frame
Cut the crosses and replaced with volkl syn gut so a hybrid with the msv hex. At 34lbs then played a couple of hours today. Elbow fine is the good news. People I haven't played with before still complemented my topspin but I didn't see much more than my old 18/20 head liquid metal setup, definitely much less than the full poly setup. It's also the most powerful frame / setup I have ever used so I was struggling with hitting long, adjusting then netting a few. Blocking the ball back wasn't great either.
I could live with the poly/syn hybrid but keen to experiment with some soft polys.... Or some posts here even suggest more spin from syn/syn??! Elbow health comes first but it's hard having tasted the cheat code of ELT poly/poly!
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Syn/poly should give more spin and comfort
Happi
Hall of Fame
MSV +25 or +38 are softer version of your string, perhaps worth a try.
thenewbig3
Professional
333g / 8HL / 326sw
Tried a Wilson Ultra Tour 18x20 with Big Banger Original @ 31 x 31 lbs (was supposed to be 38 but my tension winder was not calibrated and was like 20% too low)
Very enjoyable! Nice Spin, Power, Depth. Beautifully opens up the sweetspot. A nice LOOPY BALL & GREAT SLICES. Only had issues on balls were spacing was really off and volleys had to be clean. The sound was nice solid BOING - Not a plasticy BOING.
Opposite of Mannarino I suppose - Stiff APD13 vs Soft Ultra Tour with Lively Alu Power vs Dead BBO
Big Banger Original was introduced in 1991 so that would make it 35 years old! What an awesome string!
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WOW, 35 years old. I had not thought about this. Seems like it has not been around that long yet it seems like it has. if that makes sense.
thenewbig3
Professional
Anecdotally - I find it hard to control slick strings at lower tension... I theorize that sticker/older strings retain more friction that only increases and therefore limit the excess pocketing and slingshot effect from ultra low tension - which gets magnified in slick strings.
Ive tried slick couple times and just dont want to keep throwing money at his idea. 15+ year old, thick old strings seems to work well for me at low tension - but not for multiple sessions, 2-3 at the most - atleast for me and my technique.
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Matto
New User
I’ve used the “fancy” string at more normal tensions around 48lbs. Currently I am playing at 30-33lbs. I enjoy otoro at low tensions. One of my main set ups. I’ve also experimented with snapper as a cross and sync full bed. For me Otoro last around 10 hrs before it breaks at low tension.
I think @thenewbig3 has a good point. I find the main difference between the new vs old strings at low tension is the release point. With the newer strings pocketing a little more.
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thenewbig3
Professional
The one advantage is that many "new/fancy" strings hold tension longer - so once you can adjust your game to the new strings at low tension - you can probably get multiple sessions out of them.
Matto
New User
Another advantage of the low tension is that the duration is fairly consistent throughout the hrs of play. The massive strings movement negates the longevity though. This mainly applies to newer strings.
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AmericanTwist
Professional
I can see playing Lux 4g at very low tensions....Very stiff string benefits from low tensions.