Made a guy quit today

TeamOB

Professional
I was playing a fellow junior player in a training match at my club. Our training matches mean nothing officially, but they really determine the pecking order among the juniors. Everyone really wants to win. I was playing a guy who I typically beat. He is a year younger though and really wants to get above me in the pecking order. The guy is a very gifted but rather raw and unpolished player. His technique and footwork are questionable but his athleticism is through the roof. He is very fast and hits unbelievably hard. The dubious footwork and strokes make him inconsistent though. When he's on, he's amazing (just gets everything and hits winners all over the place) but when he's off it can get pretty ugly (turns into a UFE machine). His mental attitude is also rather wacky (prone to meltdowns). I knew I had no chance of matching his pace in a baseline bash-fest, so I decided to take hard hitting out of the game. I served only loopy spin serves and hit most of my groundies as lobs/moonballs. This started getting to his head. He tried to moonball back but did not have the feel or patience to hang in long loopy rallies. The UFEs started flowing. I held serve easily in the first game and went to switch sides. On the changeover he said: "Man, cut that bulls*** out! Grow some balls and play real tennis!" I ignored it and kept with my game. I quickly broke and held for a 3-0 lead. After every point he was shouting abuse at me. Calling me a b****, telling me to grow some balls, making derogatory comments about the size of a certain part of my anatomy etc. At the 3-0 changeover he said: "Dude, if you don't cut that out I will f*** you up! No one good plays that way! Play real tennis or I'm done." The next game he served at 0-3. I quickly got some break points and broke him with a nice moonball to push him far behind the baseline and a dropshot winner to finish the point. After this he said: "Man, f*** you! I'm done!" He grabbed his stuff and left. What do you think of this incident? Should I have changed my gameplan to avoid a confrontation? Or was pushing him to the breaking point OK? Has anything similar ever happened to you?
 

rkelley

Hall of Fame
You didn't do anything wrong. If the dude can't beat you because you're hitting moon balls then he needs to go figure out a way to deal with that. You did him a favor if he ever cares to admit it. I do feel his pain (because I have the same playing . . . style), but he's got to admit that you through something at him that he couldn't handle, and if he's going to play competitive tennis then he needs to be able to deal with what you were doing. Getting into your opponent's head with your shots (as opposed to talking trash on the changeovers, etc.) is totally a part of competitive tennis.

And there's no excuse for his stupid stuff he said.
 

Kenny022593

Professional
I've been on your opponents side. What it really comes down to is a junior just having to grow up. Everyone has a certain style and if you play a style that bothers your opponent your opponent should come in knowing that and figure out ways to work around it.

You said it was a competitive scenario so he was probably salty and will probably be salty still the next time you see him. Just beat him again. I have a 2-23 head-to-head against a kid from my hometown who used to do the same thing you did to him whenever we played. The two matches I won were the last two we played because I kept a level head and played my game instead of being salty about losing the first 23 matches.

Don't worry about it and just be friends since you are both in the same program.
 
Assuming this thread is serious, the kid needs a pretty severe lesson. What's he going to do when real life comes his way?
 

Steady Eddy

Legend
You should feel good about staying the course. I used to play a guy who'd put down how I was playing if I was winning. I'd take the bait and try to show how hard I could hit. Then he'd stop putting me down, but I'd lose.

If you're winning, you should ignore what your opponent says.
 

TeamOB

Professional
Assuming this thread is serious, the kid needs a pretty severe lesson. What's he going to do when real life comes his way?
Yeah, this really happened. The kid is actually a pretty nice guy, just really immature and can lose control and act like an absolute d*ckhead when things aren't going his way. He has a history of this sort of meltdowns, and has been kicked out of tournaments and clinics before. The coaches around here have kinda given up on fixing his attitude. They tried but it didn't do much. He's actually a really cool guy when he's calm, but an absolute imbecile when he starts getting angry. I really have no idea how he'll fix that later in life, but it's really none of my business.
 

BMC9670

Hall of Fame
You showed some versatility and great awareness... of which he showed none. Tennis isn't always about playing your game or bust, but figuring out how to knock the opponent off their game. If he doesn't get that, so be it. He'll keep losing.
 

eelhc

Hall of Fame
Yeah, this really happened. The kid is actually a pretty nice guy, just really immature and can lose control and act like an absolute d*ckhead when things aren't going his way. He has a history of this sort of meltdowns, and has been kicked out of tournaments and clinics before. The coaches around here have kinda given up on fixing his attitude. They tried but it didn't do much. He's actually a really cool guy when he's calm, but an absolute imbecile when he starts getting angry. I really have no idea how he'll fix that later in life, but it's really none of my business.
Ahmmmm.... That's not the characteristic of what most people would consider a "nice guy".

BTW... you didn't make the guy quit... He's a quitter.
 
"No one good plays that way! Play real tennis or I'm done."
You should have told him, it may be true that no one good plays this way, but no one good loses from someone who plays this way either.

In other words, while moonballing is probably not the best thing you can do for your own long-term development as a player, playing against a good moonballer may be just what the doctor ordered.
 

Steady Eddy

Legend
You should have told him, it may be true that no one good plays this way, but no one good loses from someone who plays this way either.
That is a good reply. It's interesting how in tennis people will say they lost because the opponent was so bad. And that if the opponent improved, then they'd be able to beat him.

Does this happen in any other game or sport?
 

newpball

Legend
What do you think of this incident?
I think it is time for some of the elders of the club to have a word with this player.

He obviously can have an opinion about your playing style but he needs to behave himself and personal threats are crossing the line.
 

Spin Doctor

Professional
I agree with your opponent. Nobody likes playing eunuch pusher/moonballers. You got the win but this guy will badmouth you to all the other juniors and everyone will think you're a *****. So as long as you're ok with that, then no worries really.

Unless you're a girl of course, then this type of play is fine.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
I've been on your opponents side. What it really comes down to is a junior just having to grow up. Everyone has a certain style and if you play a style that bothers your opponent your opponent should come in knowing that and figure out ways to work around it.

You said it was a competitive scenario so he was probably salty and will probably be salty still the next time you see him. Just beat him again. I have a 2-23 head-to-head against a kid from my hometown who used to do the same thing you did to him whenever we played. The two matches I won were the last two we played because I kept a level head and played my game instead of being salty about losing the first 23 matches.

Don't worry about it and just be friends since you are both in the same program.
"Nobody and I mean NOBODY beats Kenny022593 24 times in a row!"- Kenny022593
 

jrs

Professional
You figured out a strategy to beat the guy and implemented it perfectly. Congratulations.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I agree with your opponent. Nobody likes playing eunuch pusher/moonballers. You got the win but this guy will badmouth you to all the other juniors and everyone will think you're a *****. So as long as you're ok with that, then no worries really.

Unless you're a girl of course, then this type of play is fine.
Don't both boys and girls play to win?

Remember that there's two ways to beat an opponent:

1. Play better than your opponent.

2. Make your opponent play worse than you.

:)
 

newpball

Legend
I agree with your opponent. Nobody likes playing eunuch pusher/moonballers. You got the win but this guy will badmouth you to all the other juniors and everyone will think you're a *****. So as long as you're ok with that, then no worries really.

Unless you're a girl of course, then this type of play is fine.
When I read this I thought of:



:grin:
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Also, don't forget that tennis is basically a mental battle between you and your opponent.

Looks like you won this one. :)
 

Maximagq

Banned
LOL I remember in the 12's, I was playing this kid who was ranked higher than me and we were in the 3rd set and I think I was winning handily like 4-2. The kid starts crying and gets a point penalty for hitting the fence with his racket. On the next point, I hit the ball into the fence intentionally. I ended up winning the match 6-4 in the 3rd, if I recall correctly. As my dad drove me home after the match, he asks "Hey Matt, why did you hit that ball into the fence?" I responded "Because I wanted to see the kid cry even more!" :)
 
The kid should be grateful for the learning opportunity in a non-official match. What I think was actually the worst is the swearing aimed at the opponent. That should have been a default, actually. There's just no excuse and he should deeply apologize.
 

Supertegwyn

Hall of Fame
That player sounds identical to me (the athleticism + hard shots + weak mentality) apart from the yelling at other opponents; I partake in the Andy Murray approach to tennis (screaming obscenities at myself and clutching my body in pain).

Kid sounds like a pain though.
 

struggle

Legend
I've been on your opponents side. What it really comes down to is a junior just having to grow up. Everyone has a certain style and if you play a style that bothers your opponent your opponent should come in knowing that and figure out ways to work around it.

You said it was a competitive scenario so he was probably salty and will probably be salty still the next time you see him. Just beat him again. I have a 2-23 head-to-head against a kid from my hometown who used to do the same thing you did to him whenever we played. The two matches I won were the last two we played because I kept a level head and played my game instead of being salty about losing the first 23 matches.

Don't worry about it and just be friends since you are both in the same program.
Nobody beats Kenny022593 24 times in a row!!!!

(Stealing Vitas quote when he finally beat Connors, 17th try I think).
 

struggle

Legend
This doesn't happen just in juniors.

I was hitting without confidence in a tourney last
weekend and just went into a calm and became a
pushing machine until i could set up some obvious
winners. Had to take lots more time and swallow alot
more UE's than I'm normally willing to do.

Gotta do what it takes.
 

Sander001

Hall of Fame
I was playing a fellow junior player in a training match at my club. Our training matches mean nothing officially, but they really determine the pecking order among the juniors. Everyone really wants to win. I was playing a guy who I typically beat. He is a year younger though and really wants to get above me in the pecking order. The guy is a very gifted but rather raw and unpolished player. His technique and footwork are questionable but his athleticism is through the roof. He is very fast and hits unbelievably hard. The dubious footwork and strokes make him inconsistent though. When he's on, he's amazing (just gets everything and hits winners all over the place) but when he's off it can get pretty ugly (turns into a UFE machine). His mental attitude is also rather wacky (prone to meltdowns). I knew I had no chance of matching his pace in a baseline bash-fest, so I decided to take hard hitting out of the game. I served only loopy spin serves and hit most of my groundies as lobs/moonballs. This started getting to his head. He tried to moonball back but did not have the feel or patience to hang in long loopy rallies. The UFEs started flowing. I held serve easily in the first game and went to switch sides. On the changeover he said: "Man, cut that bulls*** out! Grow some balls and play real tennis!" I ignored it and kept with my game. I quickly broke and held for a 3-0 lead. After every point he was shouting abuse at me. Calling me a b****, telling me to grow some balls, making derogatory comments about the size of a certain part of my anatomy etc. At the 3-0 changeover he said: "Dude, if you don't cut that out I will f*** you up! No one good plays that way! Play real tennis or I'm done." The next game he served at 0-3. I quickly got some break points and broke him with a nice moonball to push him far behind the baseline and a dropshot winner to finish the point. After this he said: "Man, f*** you! I'm done!" He grabbed his stuff and left. What do you think of this incident? Should I have changed my gameplan to avoid a confrontation? Or was pushing him to the breaking point OK? Has anything similar ever happened to you?
What strikes me is your coolness. He threatens you and you just let it roll right off your shoulders like a pesky insect, keep your gameplan and embarrass him. Well done.
 

Cobaine

Semi-Pro
Congrats on the win and on the apt application of strategy, but you couldn't have done anything other than constantly moonball? Not only is it a cheesy way to win, but it barely helps your game because a) it doesn't work against skilled opponents and b) there are so many other ways to nullify the game of an inconsistent big hitter that actually help your game develop.

Incorporating occasional moonballs can be a sound strategy, but to play that way for a whole match is a travesty.
 

Tcbtennis

Hall of Fame
My first thought after reading the OP was, "typical American junior player". Rather than fight for the match it's easier to find all kind of excuses to justify why he is losing. I see it all the time. A coach once told me that to be successful in tennis a player must have "heart, head and feet". The opponent clearly has no heart.
 
I was playing a fellow junior player in a training match at my club. Our training matches mean nothing officially, but they really determine the pecking order among the juniors. Everyone really wants to win. I was playing a guy who I typically beat. He is a year younger though and really wants to get above me in the pecking order. The guy is a very gifted but rather raw and unpolished player. His technique and footwork are questionable but his athleticism is through the roof. He is very fast and hits unbelievably hard. The dubious footwork and strokes make him inconsistent though. When he's on, he's amazing (just gets everything and hits winners all over the place) but when he's off it can get pretty ugly (turns into a UFE machine). His mental attitude is also rather wacky (prone to meltdowns). I knew I had no chance of matching his pace in a baseline bash-fest, so I decided to take hard hitting out of the game. I served only loopy spin serves and hit most of my groundies as lobs/moonballs. This started getting to his head. He tried to moonball back but did not have the feel or patience to hang in long loopy rallies. The UFEs started flowing. I held serve easily in the first game and went to switch sides. On the changeover he said: "Man, cut that bulls*** out! Grow some balls and play real tennis!" I ignored it and kept with my game. I quickly broke and held for a 3-0 lead. After every point he was shouting abuse at me. Calling me a b****, telling me to grow some balls, making derogatory comments about the size of a certain part of my anatomy etc. At the 3-0 changeover he said: "Dude, if you don't cut that out I will f*** you up! No one good plays that way! Play real tennis or I'm done." The next game he served at 0-3. I quickly got some break points and broke him with a nice moonball to push him far behind the baseline and a dropshot winner to finish the point. After this he said: "Man, f*** you! I'm done!" He grabbed his stuff and left. What do you think of this incident? Should I have changed my gameplan to avoid a confrontation? Or was pushing him to the breaking point OK? Has anything similar ever happened to you?
Did the guy start a "I got beaten by a pusher thread?:D
 
Yeah, this really happened. The kid is actually a pretty nice guy, just really immature and can lose control and act like an absolute d*ckhead when things aren't going his way. He has a history of this sort of meltdowns, and has been kicked out of tournaments and clinics before. The coaches around here have kinda given up on fixing his attitude. They tried but it didn't do much. He's actually a really cool guy when he's calm, but an absolute imbecile when he starts getting angry. I really have no idea how he'll fix that later in life, but it's really none of my business.
Point at laugh at him everytime you hit a winner.
 
Congrats on the win and on the apt application of strategy, but you couldn't have done anything other than constantly moonball? Not only is it a cheesy way to win, but it barely helps your game because a) it doesn't work against skilled opponents and b) there are so many other ways to nullify the game of an inconsistent big hitter that actually help your game develop.

Incorporating occasional moonballs can be a sound strategy, but to play that way for a whole match is a travesty.
Winning is winning.
 

ProgressoR

Hall of Fame
I do not condone your opponent acting like a fool.

However if you have to resort to hitting moonballs and lobs to win a match you quickly become someone no one that I know (who plays tennis) will like, have respect for, or just want to hit with. Sure play to your strengths, and blah blah blah, but at the end of the day, if I have to play in a way I consider demeaning to me to win, I probably would just take the loss and go home.

After all, we are playing to win but also for fun and to develop.
 

Sander001

Hall of Fame
Tip: Use your tactic sparingly because it probably won't work forever. Maybe only use it in a more important match, when coaches are watching or something.
 

TeamOB

Professional
I do not condone your opponent acting like a fool.

However if you have to resort to hitting moonballs and lobs to win a match you quickly become someone no one that I know (who plays tennis) will like, have respect for, or just want to hit with. Sure play to your strengths, and blah blah blah, but at the end of the day, if I have to play in a way I consider demeaning to me to win, I probably would just take the loss and go home.

After all, we are playing to win but also for fun and to develop.
I have to admit that the moonballs were also largely a psychological ploy. I knew the guy was a headcase and would start to melt down if I hit some annoying shots. I hardly ever moonball, but I did it here because I saw this guy was the perfect victim for that play. I didn't think he would melt down to the point of having a fit and quitting, but I knew his mental game would be fried within a few games. As for losing his respect and losing him as a hitting partner, I couldn't care less. I have plenty of people to hit with.
 

Spin Doctor

Professional
Congrats on the win and on the apt application of strategy, but you couldn't have done anything other than constantly moonball? Not only is it a cheesy way to win, but it barely helps your game because a) it doesn't work against skilled opponents and b) there are so many other ways to nullify the game of an inconsistent big hitter that actually help your game develop.

Incorporating occasional moonballs can be a sound strategy, but to play that way for a whole match is a travesty.
Finally, an intact male around here. You can join my club of Real Men (we also have female members, it's just a name).
 

Spin Doctor

Professional
Ha, sounds like he has some issues with females. We have 9-10 year old girls down here that I bet hit harder than he does.
Absolutely not. I gladly hit with women and they don't resort to moonballing and pushing to get the job done unlike certain other lame "men".
 
Absolutely not. I gladly hit with women and they don't resort to moonballing and pushing to get the job done unlike certain other lame "men".
nowhere in Tennis' rule book does it state that you need to hit hard to play the game.
if you can't beat somebody that keeps the ball in, you should work on your game...not complain about their lack of manhood. that's idiotic.
 

Spin Doctor

Professional
My first thought after reading the OP was, "typical American junior player". Rather than fight for the match it's easier to find all kind of excuses to justify why he is losing. I see it all the time. A coach once told me that to be successful in tennis a player must have "heart, head and feet". The opponent clearly has no heart.
Fixed below.

My first thought after reading the OP was, "typical American junior player". Rather than fight for the match LIKE A MAN it's easier to MOONBALL. I see it all the time. A coach once told me that to be successful in tennis a player must have "heart, head and BALLS". The OP clearly has no BALLS.

Totally agree!!
 
Winning is EVERYTHING. as long as you play by the rules and are not cheating, you're doing what it takes to win.
The rest is useless fluff.
 

Spin Doctor

Professional
I do not condone your opponent acting like a fool.

However if you have to resort to hitting moonballs and lobs to win a match you quickly become someone no one that I know (who plays tennis) will like, have respect for, or just want to hit with . Sure play to your strengths, and blah blah blah, but at the end of the day, if I have to play in a way I consider demeaning to me to win, I probably would just take the loss and go home.

After all, we are playing to win but also for fun and to develop.
It's like the TW-verse is a whole separate reality. In the real world, everyone hates playing unconventional players but for some reason all the TW 3.5 GOATS consider this an enjoyable game style, because hey, as long as you win, it's okay. Newsflash: it isn't. People that play like d-bags will find hitting partners in short supply and have to resort to leagues and ladders in order find people to hit with. Which is why leagues and ladders are infested by these people.
 
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