Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Mansewerz, Aug 5, 2008.
does all these stringing machine work on all racket sports racket?
Yes and no, though most machines can string squash, badminton and racquetball rackets. They may need different clamps to do the job. More or less it depends on the machine and accessories.
Any remarks on he Wise 2086 tensioning head mechanism being a "low priced" alternative for crank guys wanting to move into the CP/Electronic world?
^^^ It's a great "upgrade" or alternative to an all Electronic CP machine. Though I would not consider $500 a "low priced alternative", it definately an upgrade.
i need some advice here since im planning to find a stringing machine real soon. i play tennis and badminton but i string a tennis racket about once a month and a badminton racket once a year. i was checking out the kippermate that sells a badminton package separately. since it's non-electronic it won't need to be recalibrate right, it only uses the drop weight method that depends on gravity/statics and weight im assuming?
so all these stringing machines are same, a string job is a string job and they just get it done just as good but with comfort and time issues? so is the klippermate the best for my need? TW don't sell them.
Jim's post sums up the answer to your question fairly well (and it's fresh - just wrote it about an hour ago lol). I recommend you keep reading, however. The more information you can amass before making your purchase, the less likely you'll regret the machine you ultimately end up with.
thanks! but im not gonna read more actually.LOL. i would like to know a whole lot more but i would forget about it since im not gonna need anything that cost more than klippermate. if i played more than i do now then i would.....wish i did.....but i rather just pay stringing labor which is less than 13 for me, it's not too bad.
i've been watching videos too. i just don't quite understand how the flying clamp work, i mean they're not attached to anything. lol........????..... once you release the clamp, string gets loose then you go tension the next main, isn't that the same as not clamping it? i understand the part where you use it to hold the string position to tension the other half of the main at the beginning of stringing but i just see it how it works when it's moving freely while stringing the same half of the main.
Flying clamps work on pressure adn friction. You clamp two adjacent strings at the same time, each string is trying to pull back to its un-tensioned state, one will be trying to pull back towards the head of the racquet, the other the throat. As each exerts the same pulling force, but in opposite directions the clamp holds in place, that's why a flying clamp won't work on a single string.
Hope that makes sense - it's the easiest way I could think to describe it!
With the floating/flying clamp above, in this case, the one made by Gamma, you'll notice the clamp has two clamping jaws. See the bottom-right picture. The strings go on either side of the red "center divider". All floating clamps have this general configuration to accomodate two strings. A fixed clamp will only have the single clamping jaw.
When you start a racquet using a common pattern and basic clamping method, starting at the head or the throat depending on your racquet model, you lace the two center mains (left and right) from the head to the throat, or vice versa. You will now clamp those TWO center mains together--remember the two clamping jaws of the floating clamp. You will then lace the next main, left or right of the center, and tension it. While still tensioned, you clamp the tensioned string to the center main to its right or left. The clamp holds the tension because it is clamped to the previous string. Remember, the clamp can hold two strings at once. This is where Ash_Smith's explanation of forces above comes into play. It would be clear if you could see it in action. All you have to know is that the previous string to the one you tension and clamp is acting like a "solid bar" running across the racquet head to which you can clamp your just tensioned string. You continue this process, clamping your most recent string to the previous. You move the clamp when the string is still held tensioned by the gripper.
I hope this quick pic helps:
Oh!! i see now. i didn't catch the part where he clamped both strings. i thought it was just one the whole time. everything makes sense now. haha. Thanks guys. i guess all i need is a klippermate. i only string my own rackets and haven't had a time where i need to string immediately, so im going for the klippermate. plus i heard (on the board) the clamps on the klippermate are better than the gamma x-2's.
one last thing, how do you find out all the info's you need to string your racket, the main skips for example (info on the rackets not the machine).
^^^Manufacturers web sites, TW, Klip website - plenty of places have the stringing info! Or you could just look at the grommets in the racquet (assuming it has been strung previously) - they will show you what string was what as they willbend slightly in the direction of pull.
For disclosure, I have an X-2, and I am not a pro stringer. Either machine is fine. I tried a Klippermate a long time ago with a guy I met at the courts. The one thing to note about the Klippermate is it doesn't have a ratcheting gripper. Have you looked into that? Some don't like the Gamma clamps. They seem fine to me.
As "Ash_Smith" said, the patterns are readily available. If you want to note the racquet, I'll try to point out the pattern.
You might want to start a separate thread. I don't know how much of specific discussion should be added to an "sticky" thread.
I don't know which model Klippermate you plan on, but I believe I am right that the standard model requires an add-on package for badminton, which you say you also do. That package includes smaller clamps, special brackets, and a smaller weight. The X-2 comes with the smaller weight, which is separated from the tennis weight.
I'm just letting you know in the event you missed that. You can also get specific badminton clamps, but some say they use the X-2 ones, and they work OK.
If that's your market, you might wan't to consider the Tygr StringEco-45 or StringProfi-52, both are more substantial than the Klipper and has the extra features to make stringin easier - it also has the same mounting towers, clamp bases and clamps as the Ultra800 machine (SP Opus). For a few quid more that the klipper it's work it in my opinion.
thanks, but i don't want to spend that much money on a stringing machine. i think the klippermate is the most sufficient for my need. ill start to save up now. ill post my first string job too if i have time.
i did find some racket infos on klip website, thanks!
Both my AG100 and AG300 from TW and according to specs on TW, are strung one piece, bottoms up on the X. but not according to the klippermate website. many people here are saying bottoms up on the crosses are bad (due to more stress on the frame).
Yep, as a general rule stringing bottom to top crosses isn't a great idea, some manufacturers say it's okay with their frames but I would rather string 2 piece top to bottom or string 1 piece around the world to be on the safe side.
did you mean top to bottom, 2 piece?
^^^yep. now edited! cheers!
well what im trying to say is why does TW string it differently?
Various racquets do string crosses from the bottom up according to the manufacturer's official instructions. Some stringers tend to shy away from this practice, in general, and use generic patterns to avoid it. TW probably does it as an official seller and are willing to take responsibility as the seller for any "damage"--which is extremely unlikely.
Below is a quote from the first page, I believe, referencing 6-point mounting drop-weights.
I was wondering, Mansewerz, why you chose those two over the Gamma Progression II 602FC. What separates the Alpha from the Gamma?
I think Mansewerz has retired - haven't seen a post by him in quite some time.
Aw man... Well then I'll rephrase the question so someone else can answer.
I was wondering what advantage the Alpha Pioneer DC+ has over the Gamma Progression II 602FC. What differentiates them? And is a stand available for the Alpha? Thanks, everyone!
I think Mansewerz already answered your question in his original review. The linear gripper and the spring assisted clamps (at the base) are big differences. I made my decision to get the Alpha shortly after downloading Gamma's manual and reading about how to tension a string. The Alpha's linear gripper is much easier. The only feature that I think is really missing from the APDC+ is a brake. If I'm not mistaken, I think the Gamma has a screw brake, but I've heard it's not useful anyway.
His last post was 3-18-12. He's probably not retired but well on his way.
He has only made 8 posts in the last three months.
Hmmm, I think I used to be facebook friends with him. i was going to drop him a line to check this thread, but I can't seem to find him. Oh well.
I must have missed that part about the clamps (I did note the gripper difference, though); I thought he was mostly comparing the SP and Alpha in his evaluation. Thanks!
What exactly is a brake, by the way?
Hopefully he'll still drop in to check up on things...
The Alpha has spring assisted levers at the base of the clamps, so it requires less effort to lock the base of the clamps in place. The Gamma does not. It's not a deal breaker; it's just another nice feature to add to the list. However, the gripper is major, IMO.
The brake is just what it sounds like. It stops the turntable from turning. Originally, I think brakes were used to make it easier to tie knots. A brake also happens to make it easier to string Prince O3 racquets, so now it provides more function for a very popular racquet type. However, I heard comments from other posters that the screw brake on the lower end Gamma machines is useless for stringing O3 racquets. You can still use other methods such as 50/50, boomerang, sharpie cap, and S-hook to string O3 racquets without a brake.
Great info, Ramon. Many thanks!
One last question. Is a stand made for the ADCP+? Would the Gamma 602FC stand work/could it be modified?
That part I don't know. I know that Gamma makes stands for their tabletop machines. I haven't seen an Alpha stand that's made for that. For me, the stand was not a consideration because of the extra cost. You'll get better deals buying stand-alone models.
Stand alone CPs at a better deal?
And how does DC compare to DC+?
I wasn't necessarily comparing CP machines. Most entry level stand alones are cranks, and you can find some for around $500.
The biggest difference appears to be the linear gripper on the DC+.
I figured as much about what machines you were referring to. From all I've heard, CPs are better, so I'd like to go with one that's CP.
The gripper does seem to be the main difference. What do you think a fair price on a used DC would be? And would it be better to just by new and get a linear griper? Just curious, since my coach actually has two ten year old machines (a Gamma 602FC and Alpha Pioneer DC).
EDIT: I suppose I lied with the "one last question" statement earlier...
It depends on the condition of those machines. If they are in good working condition, I suppose either machine would be worth between $180-250. My rationale is that a good used fixed clamp machine should be worth more than a new X-2 or Klippermate, especially since the dropweight mechanism is low maintenance and should be good for a long time. I would also pay less than the price of a new Eagnas Flex 740, which retails for $289 and has similar features but includes a linear gripper. JMO
Okay, thank you so much, Ramon!
Hey mixedmedia, I am alive and kicking!
I chose the Alpha over the Gamma, as someone else already said, for the spring assisted clamps and linear gripper. The APDC+ sadly lacks a brake mechanisms, which is why I said I would look into the Hip Hop in the case that a lot of my customers had O3 racquets.
The spring assisted clamps are definitely a plus, and I have version of them currently on my Stringway.
I've been getting old! But really, I have entered college and have been mighty busy (or keeping myself busy doing dumb things like facebook).
I haven't updated myself on machines in quite some time, but from what I remember, the Gamma lacks a brake. The only one in that pricepoint with a brake is the Hip Hop.
I've been quite absentee, but I recently watched some college tennis upclose and have been re-inspired! This whole life and school thing is hard!
Dire, check your fb, I've got a question for ya!
Mansewerz! Awesome to see you're still active here, and thanks for the answers. DC (non-plus) over 602FC?
Hmm, the DC non plus looks a lot like a 602FC with spring assisted clamp bases. Are the prices comparable? The 602FC would come with a tool set and warranty, plus it is new. What comes with the Alpha?
Well the non plus would be used, as would the 602FC. I'm considering a new DC+ with a upgrade to 5 prong clamps so I can string badminton racquets.
Used Alpha would come with tools, cover, and Gamma tension calibrator. Probably would be around $350 to the Gamma's $250. Does the gripper of the DC+ make as much of a difference to you as it does to Ramon?
Hm, the rotational gripper makes me nervous with polys. The polys go in with a sharp bend, which kinks them a bit. Linear grippers are nicer because the strings go in straight, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it really makes.
That's what I was thinking. Thanks!
Which one should i buy Gamma Progression II 602 or Klippermate? Ive strung a few racquets on the Gamma with ease before but have never used the klippermate, your suggestion?
The gamma have a better mounting system but have plastic clamps. That is a hard one for me after experiencing with the Klippermate. If I were to choose again I would get the gamma and look for the steel flying clamps separately.
So I am now planning to upgrade and want to get electronic stringing machine.
I want the one with the built in processer for accuracy and constancy (not voltage dependent for tensioning) and with a rotary grip style (not too important). Right I am looking at the Gamma Progression II ELS machine. I've been browsing lately and can't find websites that offer a lot.
So what kind of tensioner does the Progression II ELS have? I am assuming it's just an electric one and is voltage dependent.
Where are you guys getting Klippermates for 125 new? I'm not seeing it, sorry.
If you check out the dates from some of these posts you will see that its a few years old, that being said, I would imagine some prices do increase over time.
if this is the machine you are looking at then just go to their web site and see what the current price is.
That was a thought that briefly crossed my mind. I sort of disregarded it because I figured why would an old machine even bought new cost more a couple years later?
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