Manual Crank Gamma X-ST vs. Proshop Electronic Stringer

[DonPepe]

So I was told stringing rackets at home using a lock out vs. electronic string machine at local pro shop are different with respect to tension, especially when stringing natural gut.
So 50 lbs on my Gamma X-ST lock out is like 45 lbs on a Wilson electronic stringer....
What say you?

 

[mpournaras]

It is true. It is constant pull vs lock-out. they technically pull the same tension but its the tension 1 hour later thats different. Electronic stringers kinda apply a natural 1-3% pre-stretch to all strings in a way. As far as gut is concerned. You should ALWAYS pre-stretch it either by hand (look it up) or with a pre-stretch function on an electronic machine. That function basically over-pulls it by a certain percent then brings it back down to your desired tension. 3-5 pound difference between those types of machines makes sense in my head. You can remedy this a little bit by pulling the last portion of the lock-out process slowly.

Lock out meaning once the tension is reached the spring pops and it holds the string in that position. It begins losing tension the moment it gets pulled.

Constant pull (Electronic) pull a constant tension until you retract the puller.

 

[DonPepe]

Thanks. So I just need to pre stretch, pull slowly on the crank.... or I could also string natural gut on my lock out at 55 lbs to achieve about the same 50 lbs tension from the electronic pull.

 

[Injured Again]

Thanks. So I just need to pre stretch, pull slowly on the crank.... or I could also string natural gut on my lock out at 55 lbs to achieve about the same 50 lbs tension from the electronic pull.

Unless both machines are calibrated, you really don't know the actual tensions. So in that case, just use the tension number as a relative amount. The important thing is to string consistently from one racquet to another. Crank at the same speed, clamp in the same way, have the same amount of string between the gripper and the frame. Then, whatever number either machine shows will be consistent and allow you to make minor adjustments and know that they will affect the stringbed as expected.

 

[esgee48]

Just crank quickly with a click. Trying to do a pre stretch with a crank requires VERY good mechanical timing otw you will get variable amounts of pre stretch. Stringing requires consistency to have consistent results.

 

[struggle]

The discrepancy is normal from CP to a LO. The amount will vary, but is to be expected.

 

[Arak]

Thanks. So I just need to pre stretch, pull slowly on the crank.... or I could also string natural gut on my lock out at 55 lbs to achieve about the same 50 lbs tension from the electronic pull.

Whatever the string, do not pre-stretch unless you like the reduced elasticity. Just string higher and aim for good feel and playability after a couple of hours of hitting. You will probably settle on ridiculously high tensions in comparison to constant pull machines.

 

[mpournaras]

Whatever the string, do not pre-stretch unless you like the reduced elasticity. Just string higher and aim for good feel and playability after a couple of hours of hitting. You will probably settle on ridiculously high tensions in comparison to constant pull machines.

Gut is wildly elastic even after pre-streching. That is questionable advice unfortunately. The main characteristic of gut is comfort and tension maintenance... stretching out the initial drop is the best way to get that.

 

[esgee48]

I respectfully disagree with the above. BITD when I used a LO (eons ago), I was advised to only use to a light manual pre stretch. Ref tensions were high compared to today when some clients needed 65+ lbs ref tension for the thinner 16 Ga stuff. Problem was solved by moving those folks to 15 and 15L NG. NG was softer back then and the stuff now-a-days is not so soft.

 

[Steve Huff]

Most gut manufacturers don't recommend prestretching these days. Also, when I used a crank (Ektelon H), I would pull slowly, release the lockout, and pull again (not let the crank return to original position). This was essentially doing a double pull. My tensions were more in line with constant pull machines, but probably not quite as high. When I got used to doing it this way, it really didn't add much time at all.

 

[Ronaldo]

Anyone still manually pre-stretch to remove coil memory?

 

[Shroud]

Anyone still manually pre-stretch to remove coil memory?

not only that I prestretch every string to elongate it permanently as much as I can.

 

[Ronaldo]

not only that I prestretch every string to elongate it permanently as much as I can.

Does it kill the elasticity?

 

[McLovin]

Unless both machines are calibrated, you really don't know the actual tensions. So in that case, just use the tension number as a relative amount. The important thing is to string consistently from one racquet to another.

Probably the best advice here.

When I bought my Wise 2086, I did a test run: I strung one of my frames on my old drop-weight, the other on my new Alpha/Wise. Same string, same tension, same racquet.

I measured the tension using the RacquetTune iPhone app once I pulled the frames off the machine: The Alpha/Wise job measured 4lbs tighter than the old drop-weight.

 

[Shroud]

Does it kill the elasticity?

Yes thats the point. It reduces tension loss and using kev/4g those arent exactly elastic strings.

 

[Ronaldo]

Yes thats the point. It reduces tension loss and using kev/4g those arent exactly elastic strings.

Strung so much SG with coil memory that needed pre-stretching. Never pre-stretched multis. Polys, what's the point?

 

[Shroud]

Strung so much SG with coil memory that needed pre-stretching. Never pre-stretched multis. Polys, what's the point?

Reducing tension loss

 

[Wes]

Anyone still manually pre-stretch to remove coil memory?

Yes.
When working with natural gut, I always do this before starting the job.

 

[Arak]

Gut is wildly elastic even after pre-streching. That is questionable advice unfortunately. The main characteristic of gut is comfort and tension maintenance... stretching out the initial drop is the best way to get that.

I have used pre-stretched and non pre-stretched gut at occasions. With 15% machine pre-stretch my favorite tension is around 56, but it’s about 58 without pre-stretch. On a LO machine, it would be probably around 62 but I have never tried it. I decided that I preferred not to pre-stretch because ultimately I get the same tensions after the initial drop, and the string bed plays softer with better feel, and most importantly, it can last significantly longer, easily 20% longer in my experience, as the fraying starts later. I also find that modern NG is not as soft and elastic and the gap is closer to the best multifilaments.

 

[manirban]

Best advice I ever got for stringing, whatever the machine - worry first about precision, repeatability, and reproducibility, then worry about accuracy.

 

[WYK]

So I was told stringing rackets at home using a lock out vs. electronic string machine at local pro shop are different with respect to tension, especially when stringing natural gut.
So 50 lbs on my Gamma X-ST lock out is like 45 lbs on a Wilson electronic stringer....
What say you?

It depends a lot on the person stringing the machine, then the machine.
And even then, many people use an electronic stringing machine in lockout mode. I have seen this done by some professionals at competitions.
And I have seen people stringing in pro shops who clamp so quickly the CP means very little because they move the clamps as the tension pulls.
But many pro shops pull a crank so fast, it is nearly guaranteed it's going to have less tension than most CP will.
So, basically, it all depends. If you clamp slowly, crank quickly, the crank will likely be a bit lower tension. If you crank slowly, and clamp quickly, it may be similar.
Then there's the string. Some strings are so stiff they don't care. Some are so sloppy even a few moments before clamping makes a big difference, or the CP will just keep pulling and pulling and pulling so much you have to go to lockout mode.

 

[Wes]

It depends a lot on the person stringing the machine, then the machine.
And even then, many people use an electronic stringing machine in lockout mode. I have seen this done by some professionals at competitions.
And I have seen people stringing in pro shops who clamp so quickly the CP means very little because they move the clamps as the tension pulls.
But many pro shops pull a crank so fast, it is nearly guaranteed it's going to have less tension than most CP will.
So, basically, it all depends. If you clamp slowly, crank quickly, the crank will likely be a bit lower tension. If you crank slowly, and clamp quickly, it may be similar.
Then there's the string. Some strings are so stiff they don't care. Some are so sloppy even a few moments before clamping makes a big difference, or the CP will just keep pulling and pulling and pulling so much you have to go to lockout mode.

All very good thoughts/points on the matter.
The technician actually doing the work is definitely a critical factor.

Regarding the portion I've made bold, see my previous post here...

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/electric-tension-head-will-it-save-time.640752/#post-14785199

 

[Arak]

It depends a lot on the person stringing the machine, then the machine.
And even then, many people use an electronic stringing machine in lockout mode. I have seen this done by some professionals at competitions.
And I have seen people stringing in pro shops who clamp so quickly the CP means very little because they move the clamps as the tension pulls.
But many pro shops pull a crank so fast, it is nearly guaranteed it's going to have less tension than most CP will.
So, basically, it all depends. If you clamp slowly, crank quickly, the crank will likely be a bit lower tension. If you crank slowly, and clamp quickly, it may be similar.
Then there's the string. Some strings are so stiff they don't care. Some are so sloppy even a few moments before clamping makes a big difference, or the CP will just keep pulling and pulling and pulling so much you have to go to lockout mode.

Is it correct to assume that eCP machine in LO mode is the most consistent, since it doesn’t vary so much with the operator’s speed?
My regular stringer who is actually very experienced gave me back my racket with a multi 17 gauge that felt too tight, It measured like 61 lbs with racket-tune app, while I actually requested 55 lbs. when I enquired about this, he said he doesn’t know but he might have worked slower than usual on my racket to avoid any issues (it was my own string). I’m thinking to ask him to use LO mode next time and probably increase requested tension by couple of pounds.

 

[am1899]

Is it correct to assume that eCP machine in LO mode is the most consistent, since it doesn’t vary so much with the operator’s speed?

First off, most eCP machines don’t have a LO mode. (The WISE is the only one I’m aware of that does).

Assuming your stringer’s machine can do LO mode though, putting an eCP machine in LO mode will of course stop the machine from continuing to pull the string - once reference tension is reached. By itself, that change is unlikely to have a positive effect on consistency. What it really boils down to is the operator - how consistently is the timing between when they tension the string and when they clamp it?

Now one obvious caveat would be in the case a really slow operator using a constant pull machine - the slower the operator moves, the more each string will be pulled, and thus the tighter the job. But that’s a bit of an outlier scenario.

Personally I think the better solution would be to reduce the tension you request your racquet strung at - rather than asking your stringer to the change the mode of the tension head.

 

[Wes]

Is it correct to assume that eCP machine in LO mode is the most consistent, since it doesn’t vary so much with the operator’s speed?
My regular stringer who is actually very experienced gave me back my racket with a multi 17 gauge that felt too tight, It measured like 61 lbs with racket-tune app, while I actually requested 55 lbs. when I enquired about this, he said he doesn’t know but he might have worked slower than usual on my racket to avoid any issues (it was my own string). I’m thinking to ask him to use LO mode next time and probably increase requested tension by couple of pounds.

Quick question.
Did you, yourself, actually measure the string factor of that particular 17g multifilament?
And, subsequently, did you input those values into RacquetTune?

If you didn't, this too could possibly account for the variance (#61 vs. #55).

I only mention this because some folks overlook entering all of the key data.

 

[shug]

I purchased this scale (see Amazon link below) You can tell how much your lockout machine looses. It takes a few seconds before the scale locks in on a poundage.
I have a electronic constant pull machine (Gamma), and I can see my machine making adjustments prior the scale locking in on a number.

I use some of my Kevlar on both ends of the scale. I lock one end to a string gripper and the other end I run around the puller and pull tension. I make adjustments in tenths of a # "if necessary" and pull tension again.

Hanging Scale

 

[Arak]

First off, most eCP machines don’t have a LO mode. (The WISE is the only one I’m aware of that does).

Assuming your stringer’s machine can do LO mode though, putting an eCP machine in LO mode will of course stop the machine from continuing to pull the string - once reference tension is reached. By itself, that change is unlikely to have a positive effect on consistency. What it really boils down to is the operator - how consistently is the timing between when they tension the string and when they clamp it?

Now one obvious caveat would be in the case a really slow operator using a constant pull machine - the slower the operator moves, the more each string will be pulled, and thus the tighter the job. But that’s a bit of an outlier scenario.

Personally I think the better solution would be to reduce the tension you request your racquet strung at - rather than asking your stringer to the change the mode of the tension head.

That sounds like a much better idea. Thank you for the advice. I will discuss it with him beforehand next time I need to restring.

 

[Arak]

Quick question.
Did you, yourself, actually measure the string factor of that particular 17g multifilament?
And, subsequently, did you input those values into RacquetTune?

If you didn't, this too could possibly account for the variance (#61 vs. #55).

I only mention this because some folks overlook entering all of the key data.

Yes, this is a string that I use regularly. I know the approximate factor (I say approximate because I never measured myself, but it works). Normally this string should be in the 49-50 range by now but it’s still reading around 54+.