Manual Crank or LF dropweight?

[kreative]

Which would you prefer? A manual crank machine such as the Alpha Revo 4000, or the Laserfibre Dropweight (MS200eco)

I think they're both on the range of $500-600 or so, which would prolly be the upper limit of my budget. Both seem like really good systems, thou with the crank, it's not "constant pull" and how often would it need spring calibration? Supposedly the dropweight would never need any calibration right? I guess the advantage that the crank machine would have is speed.

Along similar lines, what do you consider more important, the clamps, or the tension head? i.e. if you had to sacrifice one for the other, which would it be? eg. laserfibre ms200eco flying clamps (good tension head), or gamma progression 602 II FC (ratchet tension head, but fixed clamps)

Finally, do you have to call LF for a quote, b/c I can't find prices on the machines on the website. TIA for your input.

 

[wshhmm]

I just got a MS200 eco ($661 same as TT) and it is suck for the instruction. But the machine is so nice. I don't know how to string using this machine. someone here can help?

 

[RickN]

Just call Tim @ LF and he will guide you through your first string job.

 

[WW Volley]

I'll try to answer your questions as best I can...

1) Crank vs. LF Dropweight: Both are going to do the job with equal consistency. The argument for constant pull is solid, but not all that important. One can turn the crank up a few extra pounds to achieve the same tensions as constant pull, and on the other hand, you might have people used to cranks as for that style on a constant pull. It's about preference here, not a better tension head. With proper maintence and calibration, both are going to provide good pull.

2) I would consider the clamps more important. Most of the higher end stringers on this board share that opinion. The clamps are what keep the pull steady and consistent. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the flying clamps from LF, but most stringers end up prefering fixed.

Then again, most people prefer the LF one pull dropweight over a ratchet one like on the Gamma dropweights. So...
kinda comes out to a wash huh?

3) Yes, you have to call LF for a quote.

Between something like the Revo and the Eco, I doubt you can make a wrong choice. When talking about these two machines, it comes down to preference and what you think you'll enjoy more. I had previously strung on a crank machine, and while it was okay, I didnt' like it all that much... so I'm switching to the LF dropweight. Idealily I'd love a WISE tension head on a nice crank base, but that was just too much cash for my needs.

Much luck to you!

 

[christian]

I'd go with the laserfibre it it were my decision. constant pull string jobs are more consistent over time compared to static pull, just upping the poundage can be a solution but every string is different as far as tension loss goes.

 

[David Pavlich]

I prefer CP. Upping the poundage is a guessing game since each string has its own characteristics such as elongation and tension loss percentages. CP eliminates the guess work.

David

 

[Audiodude]

The consistency argument for constant pull strikes me as a bit specious. Because of various compositions and materials, different strings will lose different amounts of tension, and indeed most would continue to elongate if kept under tension by the stringing machine instead of being clamped off. All racquets will suffer significant loss of tension over the first 24 hours after being strung. The amount of tension lost will vary according to the type of string used. Until a machine comes along that can accurately predict what tension the racquet will settle at, I don't thing arguing about which tensioning method is worthwhile. Maybe if a dropweight manufacturer comes up with a spreadsheet listing optimum tensioning times for each string brand, model and gauge, based on tension lost during the 48 hour time period after the racquet was strung, there will be some validity to the argument. Otherwise there are too many variables that far outweigh the tensioning system argument. Clamps and mounting are at least as important, probably more so, as long as the tensioning system is consistent. If you want a firmer stringbed, increase the tension. If you want a softer stringbed, reduce the tension. If the clamps are slipping, you'll likely end up with unreliable results. The same is true if the racquet is not held securely by the mounting system. We're all playing a guessing game. The better you know your machine and string, the less guessing you'll have to do. I'm tennising later today, so I'm outta here.

 

[David Pavlich]

Take a Neos (a benchmark crank machine) and a Sensor (benchmark CP electronic machine) and hook up your favorite calibration tool. Tension the Neos and watch the gauge for a couple of seconds. Now tension the Sensor and watch for a couple of seconds. I rest my case.

There IS a difference all things being equal. Yes, the clamps and mounting system are at least as important. The clamps on the very best machines have virtually no drawback and the mounting systems are extremely rigid which all contribute to the outcome of a string job, assuming that the operator is doing his or her part.

While it may be splitting hairs, bumping up the tension a couple of pounds or deciding on a certain percentage of tension is still a guessing game if you are trying to match a crank machine to a CP machine's string bed stiffness. Again, there's a difference.

Yes, strings will have tension creep regardless of what type of machine you use. However, with a CP machine the tension creep doesn't start until the string is clamped. A crank machine allows the tension creep to start the millisecond the brake sets.

In the world of stringing machines, these can be minor considerations for most. But you cannot dismiss out of hand that a CP machine does a more consistent job time after time, again, as long as the operator is doing the job correctly.

There is a reason why you see top line electronics in the stringing rooms of the major tournaments. It's not only the speed and ease of stringing since a good stringer on a crank machine can buzz through a racquet in about the same time as someone on an electronic. The reason is the consistent results.

David

 

[Audiodude]

If the stringer using a constant pull machine, in an effort to do the job quickly, is clamping off the string at the same rate he would if he were using a lock out machine, he's going to experience the same amount of tension creep. I will grant you that if you let a constant pull machine tension the string for 15 or 20 seconds you'll probably have less tension creep afterwards. I don't imagine most stringers wait anywhere near that long. If they do, they'll more than likely have a firmer stringbed. If you equate a firmer stringbed with a better stringbed then your argument would make sense. Consistent results are what matters. If a lock out machine set at 65 pounds produces a stringbed equal in firmness to a constant pull set at 60 pounds then you have nothing more a difference of opinion as to what a racquet strung at that tension should feel like.

 

[David Pavlich]

If the stringer using a constant pull machine, in an effort to do the job quickly, is clamping off the string at the same rate he would if he were using a lock out machine, he's going to experience the same amount of tension creep. I will grant you that if you let a constant pull machine tension the string for 15 or 20 seconds you'll probably have less tension creep afterwards. I don't imagine most stringers wait anywhere near that long. If they do, they'll more than likely have a firmer stringbed. If you equate a firmer stringbed with a better stringbed then your argument would make sense. Consistent results are what matters. If a lock out machine set at 65 pounds produces a stringbed equal in firmness to a constant pull set at 60 pounds then you have nothing more a difference of opinion as to what a racquet strung at that tension should feel like.

Again, it may be splitting hairs, you're guessing when you decide to up the tension on a crank machine in an effort to match a CP machine. Unless, of course, you've strung a racquet on a CP machine and used a RDC to measure the stringbed stiffness then strung on a crank machine using different reference tensions until you matched the CP reading.

Of course, that reading is only good for that particular string.

In real life, it's a minor thing, but there is a difference and just adding a random amount of tension is a guess. You might get lucky and match it, but chances are that you wouldn't. That's all I'm stating here.

You can get consistent results with either machine, but the high end electronics make the task easier to do it time after time after time. Agian, it's the reason the machines are at the major tournaments.

David

 

[Audiodude]

Agreed.

I think we may be saying the same thing, but using different words.

 

[David Pavlich]

Amen. On to more important things!

I had a great dinner tonight. Crab cake appetizer and trout almondine with meuniere sauce. You guys really need to come to New Orleans.

David

 

[Audiodude]

I took the kids to Wendy's.

 

[SunDog]

i own a ms200tt. and if it were available with a crank or a drop weight - i would pick the drop weight. if it were available with 5 point inside mounting or a more traditional 6 point (2 inside 4 outside) mounting - I would choose the 5.

that being said - i would not sacrifice fixed clamps in favor of flying clamps - to have the laserfibre drop weight head and inside mounting.

 

[rondallrp]

Sales guy that sold me the crank machine suggested I double pull to resolve this. I bought this thing never having strung a racquet in my life. I was struggling with this very question as I was ordering it on the phone. I took the guy at his word. I have also seen people suggest pulling slowly.

Is double pulling acceptable?

I have not even received my machine yet. It's still in the mail.

 

[eagle]

Hi wshhmm,

Give Tim Sullivan at Laserfibre a call. He'd be more than happy to walk you through the process of stringing your racquet.

Also, visit the Silent Partner website for their online videos. They have videos for stringing with flying clamps and fixed clamps. Reading about stringing is one thing but seeing a demo on video is a whole lot better. Their videos helped give me the confidence that I can string my own racquets.

r,
eagle

 

[fastdunn]

I've heard LF is a fine piece of machine.

But I'd get a crank machine. Because 1. it's most convenient.
2. you can upgrade it later with Wise Tension Head if you end up
stringing a lot for others....

 

[Gaines Hillix]

I just got a MS200 eco ($661 same as TT) and it is suck for the instruction. But the machine is so nice. I don't know how to string using this machine. someone here can help?

Call Tim Sullivan at Laserfiber. He will walk you through your first string job.

 

[Gaines Hillix]

Sales guy that sold me the crank machine suggested I double pull to resolve this. I bought this thing never having strung a racquet in my life. I was struggling with this very question as I was ordering it on the phone. I took the guy at his word. I have also seen people suggest pulling slowly.

Is double pulling acceptable?

I have not even received my machine yet. It's still in the mail.

Double pulling in this sense is really the same as prestretching the string and it's much more efficient, IMO, to do this off of the machine. It does reduce initial tension loss, which is one of the reasons a CP machine will string about 10% tighter than a lock out machine. I would prefer a stand mounted, 6-point crank machine to any table top if I was going to be doing much stringing. I would also consider the future upgradeability of what I purchased. If a stand didn't matter and I didn't want to preserve the option to go with a Wise tension head later on, I would prefer the MS200TT over a table top crank machine. It will have excellent resale value too.